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Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 05:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
THIS. Everyone who has an opinion about tanks SHOULD watch this.
Weapon A is the Assault Rifle Weapon B is the Tank Weapon C is Anti-Vehicle
Discuss. |
Carilito
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
345
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Posted - 2012.08.13 06:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is definitely the fourth forum thread this video has been posted on, that said guess I have to watch it. |
Mmkk333
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
229
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 06:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Did you watch to the end? I won't quote, but it goes along the lines of: If people are asking for a different nerf later, then it was never OP... The thing is, people have been asking for nerfs to HAVs since this build started, which means it is, in fact, OP. |
Debacle Nano
Shadow Company HQ
639
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Posted - 2012.08.13 06:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
TLDR? Skip to 5:27 |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 06:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Debacle Nano wrote:TLDR? Skip to 5:27
I would say 4:20 if you are so ADD you can't sit through 5 minutes of video about videogames. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 06:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mmkk333 wrote:Did you watch to the end? I won't quote, but it goes along the lines of: If people are asking for a different nerf later, then it was never OP... The thing is, people have been asking for nerfs to HAVs since this build started, which means it is, in fact, OP.
I disagree, if you have 1/3 of the game filled with skilled AV guys and they still can't kill 2 tanks, I'll begin to believe you.
Lets talk more in a month.
Edit:
Actually, I do believe there are not enough strong counters to the tanks, which I think the infantry-carrying auto-seeking AV grenades will help with. But it won't fix the problem that Anti Vehicle is a role that nearly nobody is taking seriously. 1 AV guy in a team of 12 is pathetic. 2-3 dedicated with another couple partially trained and able to spawn AV, or carry AV grenades is about right, imho. |
Justin Gotchall
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 06:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
The other day I watched a team of 12 heavies with swarm launchers try to destroy one tank manned by one man. They couldn't even break his shields, even when the majority of the 12 heavies hit the tank at the same time. The tank driver went 25 and 0 that map, and his team won. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse about the tanks being OP, but just thought I'd give my useless two bits on the subject. Other vehicles are nice and balanced, though, really like the implementation of the air vehicles, works great when you have a half decent pilot. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 06:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Justin Gotchall wrote:The other day I watched a team of 12 heavies with swarm launchers try to destroy one tank manned by one man. They couldn't even break his shields, even when the majority of the 12 heavies hit the tank at the same time. The tank driver went 25 and 0 that map, and his team won. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse about the tanks being OP, but just thought I'd give my useless two bits on the subject. Other vehicles are nice and balanced, though, really like the implementation of the air vehicles, works great when you have a half decent pilot.
12 heavies with Swarm launchers means they're using a militia build and are very new at the game, probably competing with a guy with 20+ million skillpoints and 2 gunners.
No real Swarm Launcher AV guy uses a heavy suit. They use Forge Guns. CCP should not even put a swarm launcher on a Heavy suit, they're misleading newbies.
The skill reset will help solve this problem, there is a huge skill imbalance right now and everyone is stuck in the same game fighting over the same thing. There are a lot of players who aren't even playing much now, since they know the reset is coming and are bored with things as they are. I played some today but barely played the last 3 weeks and I have 16 million skill points. People were having a hard time taking out my Eryx whenever I pulled one of those out. Experienced players of any kind just plow through a sea of new guys. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 08:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Just had 2 games in a row that were great on teamwork and shutting down the masses of vehicles being spawned.
People are figuring out that a couple AV people can shut down a vehicle dominant team pretty easily. I had a very pleasant game with a person I had criticized for vehicle whine earlier and this person was killing vehicles like a pro. I also had the pleasure of teaming with another AV guy in killing and shutting down the tank game of an infamous figure and the whole team spawning tanks all over. I'm impressed.
And not a single tower rocket sniper. Very different than 2-3 weeks ago.
Metagame for the win. |
Jack McReady
46
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Posted - 2012.08.13 09:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
my tank can dodge swarms and forge guns wont hit me more then twice when I pass to one shot any poor infantry guy that dares to come in my line of sight. 2 seconds later I am out of sight and you cant hit me anymore while you barely scratched my shield. 10 seconds later I crossed the map with the tanks super fast speed, recovered the shield hp I lost and pass you again as you spawn just to one shot you again. oh and my tank has 15k effective shield hp. if you never stop with the tank and only kill stuff while you pass it then your tank will never die and the best is, you can dodge swarms like a ninja because the rockets will hit the ground and obstacles
yeah it is not broken in any form, cool story |
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Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 09:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:my tank can dodge swarms and forge guns wont hit me more then twice when I pass to one shot any poor infantry guy that dares to come in my line of sight. 2 seconds later I am out of sight and you cant hit me anymore while you barely scratched my shield. 10 seconds later I crossed the map with the tanks super fast speed, recovered the shield hp I lost and pass you again as you spawn just to one shot you again. oh and my tank has 15k effective shield hp. if you never stop with the tank and only kill stuff while you pass it then your tank will never die and the best is, you can dodge swarms like a ninja because the rockets will hit the ground and obstacles yeah it is not broken in any form, cool story
Cool story yourself.
Reminds me of a game earlier tonight when I hear the other team and this guy was bragging about how fast his dropship was, as I kept dropping them from the sky, until he ran out of money and started bringing vipers. |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
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Posted - 2012.08.13 10:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
you don't see a guy with a swarm launcher parked on a roof spawn raping the other team for 100+ kills a game.
so this isn't really analogous. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 10:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tank isnt OP against 12 morons who are dumb as a lamp post |
Encharrion
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
104
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 10:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mmkk333 wrote:Did you watch to the end? I won't quote, but it goes along the lines of: If people are asking for a different nerf later, then it was never OP... The thing is, people have been asking for nerfs to HAVs since this build started, which means it is, in fact, OP.
Don't forget we don't have all the pieces of the game yet, things like EWAR aren't in the game yet. If weapon A is countered by weapon B, and weapon B is countered by weapon C, and weapon C is countered by weapon A, then if weapon C is missing then B will perform extremely well and A will do very poorly. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 11:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Tank isnt OP against 12 morons who are dumb as a lamp post
Go kill pedobear snake. I havent seen you doing naff all as AV. You didn't even take AV grenades until I told you that you sucked for it. Now you have a tank, you are backing them as not OP. Weird how tankers don't see them as Op. Same people saying "you can always avoid being redlined, it's your fault for playing badly." (dumbarses then rage quit when the reverse happens). People do talk a lot of twaddle.
@Op What about when the best anti vehicle weapon is mounted in a vehicle? (large railgun). That kinda skews it chronically. |
BLENDEDDAVE WARRIORS
29
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Posted - 2012.08.13 11:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
two or three av specialists can take out tanks no problem but not b4 the tanks kill lots of noobs .and i and my clan m8s are sick of haveing to do it all the time we would like to run and gun more 3 tanks + dropships 4 i think is just to much on this map size |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 11:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Tank isnt OP against 12 morons who are dumb as a lamp post Go kill pedobear snake. I havent seen you doing naff all as AV. You didn't even take AV grenades until I told you that you sucked for it. Now you have a tank, you are backing them as not OP. Weird how tankers don't see them as Op. Same people saying "you can always avoid being redlined, it's your fault for playing badly." (dumbarses then rage quit when the reverse happens). People do talk a lot of twaddle. @Op What about when the best anti vehicle weapon is mounted in a vehicle? (large railgun). That kinda skews it chronically. I believe I've already personally taken out EnglishSnake's tank a few times. He can claim they aren't OP because he does lose them. Losing them means people are countering them well. At least in his case. |
Drommy Hood
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
242
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 11:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rhadiem wrote:THIS. Everyone who has an opinion about tanks SHOULD watch this. Weapon A is the Assault Rifle Weapon B is the Tank Weapon C is Anti-Vehicle Discuss.
Weapon a was swarm launcher, weapon b breach AR, weapon c marauders. Weapon d I think is going to be proto forge. It does as much/more damage as a marauder, costs a fraction and it has the element of suprise, which the tank does not. Also stasis web will be tank braking I think. I'm waiting on the nerf webs/forges posts
SoonGäó |
Cameron StarGazer
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 11:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Actually, its summs up Dust and EVE very well. Great job :D |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 11:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:Tony Calif wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Tank isnt OP against 12 morons who are dumb as a lamp post Go kill pedobear snake. I havent seen you doing naff all as AV. You didn't even take AV grenades until I told you that you sucked for it. Now you have a tank, you are backing them as not OP. Weird how tankers don't see them as Op. Same people saying "you can always avoid being redlined, it's your fault for playing badly." (dumbarses then rage quit when the reverse happens). People do talk a lot of twaddle. @Op What about when the best anti vehicle weapon is mounted in a vehicle? (large railgun). That kinda skews it chronically. I believe I've already personally taken out EnglishSnake's tank a few times. He can claim they aren't OP because he does lose them. Losing them means people are countering them well. At least in his case.
I have 2 tanks fits i can use depending on the battle, 1 is more resistant to AV stuff and the other can tank more damage in general
Go cry me a river tony is all you seem to ever ******* do, i dont want my assault to be AV tbh its more MI and ther is no point in half arseing it when i can go full AV if i wanted to but its actually easier to skill up for a Tank than to go AV since i need to the heavy suit to 5 where i only needed tanks to 3 and the weapons to whatever which turned out to be less, so the best counter to a tank for me with my currents skills is to go tank and kill thers instead
As for pedobears tank i believe i could kill it now that i do have the tanks fits that i want, hell i nearly killed it with missile launchers when i was a tank noob tbh
Grit is right, i do lose mine now n again and espc at first because i was experimenting alot with my tanks and have like 6 diff fits at once but now im more careful in general because i know when a proto swarm/forge hits me so i gtfo or kill him if i chance to. I also roll around with no gunners normally and half the games it just seems to be me with a tank it seems so when it comes to redlining they all go AV prob is its milita stuff so its tankable
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Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 11:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that snake. At 16mil or so SP you couldn't scratch a tank. I just say it how it is. So go ahead and justify the 1.5 damage mod which allows you to kill heavies MUCH faster than they'll ever kill you. Except for shooting the MCC or another HAV it's insane.
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Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 11:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that snake. At 16mil or so SP you couldn't scratch a tank. I just say it how it is. So go ahead and justify the 1.5 damage mod which allows you to kill heavies MUCH faster than they'll ever kill you. Except for shooting the MCC or another HAV it's insane.
- Wait for bigger maps (Precursor build).
- Wait for the vehicle spam mode to be taken out (Precursor build).
- I only have about 8M SP and I hunt down top tier tanks. It can be done and is being done by many.
I do agree with you that tanks in Dust are much stronger than they are in most FPS's. I don't agree with you that it's wrong. The reason I came to Dust and have been excited about it since early 2010 was for the complex mechanics and realism CCP do so well. It's not for everyone (yet. They'll learn), I agree. But it is very good for those who want it. And they are growing in numbers. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 12:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that snake. At 16mil or so SP you couldn't scratch a tank. I just say it how it is. So go ahead and justify the 1.5 damage mod which allows you to kill heavies MUCH faster than they'll ever kill you. Except for shooting the MCC or another HAV it's insane.
At 16mil i was Assault purly no AV whatsoever, is that so hard to understand?
Yet you still harp on tanks are OP when we dont even have half the stuff in the beta yet or even grouping
Course tanks are OP against idiots, even 3 AV guys find it hard to take me down but that now because i gtfo and recharge and then go back for more
Hell even a dropship can cause damage to tanks if you hover well above it and shoot at it consistantly
Judge it next build ffs
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EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 12:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:Tony Calif wrote:Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that snake. At 16mil or so SP you couldn't scratch a tank. I just say it how it is. So go ahead and justify the 1.5 damage mod which allows you to kill heavies MUCH faster than they'll ever kill you. Except for shooting the MCC or another HAV it's insane.
- Wait for bigger maps (Precursor build).
- Wait for the vehicle spam mode to be taken out (Precursor build).
- I only have about 8M SP and I hunt down top tier tanks. It can be done and is being done by many.
I do agree with you that tanks in Dust are much stronger than they are in most FPS's. I don't agree with you that it's wrong. The reason I came to Dust and have been excited about it since early 2010 was for the complex mechanics and realism CCP do so well. It's not for everyone (yet. They'll learn), I agree. But it is very good for those who want it. And they are growing in numbers.
Let be honest no they wont learn, they will go back to other easy FPS games and twitch away |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 12:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
It's interesting how all threads devolve into "my experience with a skillful tank player and little to no effective AV players is completely unbalanced."
Forge guns do more damage than rail guns, if I recall correctly.
But other tanks killing other tanks still means dead tanks, loss of isk and hopefully 3 enemies. win.
I've never said that a Marauder and any AV infantry are or should be on equal terms. They are in completely different classes.
I'm saying that if you have 3 proper AV guys doing their job through the entire game, they kill or at very least completely shut down a tank pilot and his 2 gunners much of the time. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 12:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Forgegus do more than rails. Until you add the marauder 1.5 damage mod which lets me 1hit kill most assault and all scouts with splash damage, and 1 hit kill any heavy. KILLING TANKS ISN'T HARD. It's not being killed 10 times before you do it. Cba to reply snake. 16mil with no AV is a bad build. You know it as well as I do, you just don't want to give a monkeys and soun cool on the forums. Gz.
You'll notice I'm not saying Nerf them. Just that we should recognise how devastating they are. Nerfs after black ops invisi-tank. |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 12:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
I also can't even begin to explain the importance of a good dropship pilot being able to park over a tank for long enough to have his gunners take it out. Ground based AV isn't the only method.
Tanks? Get a dropship in the air and go hunting them down. If you get shot at, tell your team and they will take out the AV squads shooting at you so you can deal with the tanks. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 12:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Forgegun > Dropship
Has anyone realised the game will turn into Tanks & Heavy suits with forge & SMG? That IT. No scouts (why bother, I don't get scouts even now) and maybe a couple of Logi's/Assaults for equipment. I don't really see EWAR changing that... |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 12:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Forgegun > Dropship
Has anyone realised the game will turn into Tanks & Heavy suits with forge & SMG? That IT. No scouts (why bother, I don't get scouts even now) and maybe a couple of Logi's/Assaults for equipment. I don't really see EWAR changing that... Why will it turn into that? If one team has tanks and the other has heavies the tanks win be default. Waiting for a heavy to get to an objective would be...well...I'd rather watch paint dry.
Scouts have their roles. They're fast and small. They will also have cloak later on. Assualts have their roles. They are the middle ground between scouts and heavies. |
Rusticuls
NECROMONGER'S
6
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Posted - 2012.08.13 12:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
The problem I have is getting nubs to get in my damn drop ship quickly before I get shot out of the sky. Then getting gunners to target the vehicles is another thing altogether. I have to look where the damn guns are pointed and make sure the tanks are pointed right in their line of sight so they start to target them, usually at this point I get shot out of the sky by the AV crews. 21st should fix most of my issues by allowing groups. |
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