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Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 20:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
The point of the NDA remains the same,anyone who is publishing info without CCP's consent is liable and can be sued for said.breach. While that will only apply to those who log onto their ps3 and download it. If it is there it gives CCP recourse do something about people who violate the agreement.
How many of you even read the whole thing anyway, I know I didn't but I did skim it and got most of the important info from it.
Edit Just because its on the same server doesn't mean we won't be separate somehow as they have announced virtually zero details as to who will be able to added the single star system and planet we have been playing on so far. Since they can move your ship from one system to another on that server if they choose to. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 21:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
Bones1182 wrote:The point of the NDA remains the same,anyone who is publishing info without CCP's consent is liable and can be sued for said.breach. While that will only apply to those who log onto their ps3 and download it. If it is there it gives CCP recourse do something about people who violate the agreement.
How many of you even read the whole thing anyway, I know I didn't but I did skim it and got most of the important info from it.
Edit Just because its on the same server doesn't mean we won't be separate somehow as they have announced virtually zero details as to who will be able to added the single star system and planet we have been playing on so far. Since they can move your ship from one system to another on that server if they choose to. The point of an NDA is to limit those with access to information, so that how it looks during testing won't result in a negative image that hurts it later when it's changed completely.
By making it so that ABSOLUTELY ANYONE THAT WANTS ACCESS can see for themselves, they completely negate the purpose of an NDA. Sure, I can post it online for all to see, but I can sure as hell say "hey, you all interested in DUST? here's how you get in immediately, and you can see the problems." That statement doesn't breach NDA, and anyone that wants to can see it, and it calls attention to it SO people can see it.
Now I'm not saying Dust isn't good. All things considered, I think it's a great game so far. But at the end of the day, with the admission requirements they're setting, the purpose of an NDA is completely defeated. because when ANYONE can get access and see first hand, there's no point in saying you can't spread info. You don't need to, just invite a mate over, have him make a PSN account, and agree to the NDA when he logs in. ANYONE can see it with these terms, thus rendering an NDA pointless.
I'm not against NDAs, by the way. I simply recognize that with these changes the beta is no longer closed, and a NDA no longer serves it purpose: limiting information to those you wanted in. The new terms let ANYONE in. |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 21:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote:Bones1182 wrote:The point of the NDA remains the same,anyone who is publishing info without CCP's consent is liable and can be sued for said.breach. While that will only apply to those who log onto their ps3 and download it. If it is there it gives CCP recourse do something about people who violate the agreement.
How many of you even read the whole thing anyway, I know I didn't but I did skim it and got most of the important info from it.
Edit Just because its on the same server doesn't mean we won't be separate somehow as they have announced virtually zero details as to who will be able to added the single star system and planet we have been playing on so far. Since they can move your ship from one system to another on that server if they choose to. The point of an NDA is to limit those with access to information, so that how it looks during testing won't result in a negative image that hurts it later when it's changed completely. By making it so that ABSOLUTELY ANYONE THAT WANTS ACCESS can see for themselves, they completely negate the purpose of an NDA. Sure, I can post it online for all to see, but I can sure as hell say "hey, you all interested in DUST? here's how you get in immediately, and you can see the problems." That statement doesn't breach NDA, and anyone that wants to can see it, and it calls attention to it SO people can see it. Now I'm not saying Dust isn't good. All things considered, I think it's a great game so far. But at the end of the day, with the admission requirements they're setting, the purpose of an NDA is completely defeated. because when ANYONE can get access and see first hand, there's no point in saying you can't spread info. You don't need to, just invite a mate over, have him make a PSN account, and agree to the NDA when he logs in. ANYONE can see it with these terms, thus rendering an NDA pointless. I'm not against NDAs, by the way. I simply recognize that with these changes the beta is no longer closed, and a NDA no longer serves it purpose: limiting information to those you wanted in. The new terms let ANYONE in. Doesn't change the function or purpose of a Non Disclosure Agreement. Have you read the entire thing? I admit I did not but I skimmed through each section so that I would have a basic understanding of its terms.
Basically the first rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club. The second rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club. Outside of fight club that is.
That all it does is establish the fact that if talk about something in the beta outside of the beta or its forums they can do something about it if they want to, it's not some method to control access. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 22:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bones1182 wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Bones1182 wrote:The point of the NDA remains the same,anyone who is publishing info without CCP's consent is liable and can be sued for said.breach. While that will only apply to those who log onto their ps3 and download it. If it is there it gives CCP recourse do something about people who violate the agreement.
How many of you even read the whole thing anyway, I know I didn't but I did skim it and got most of the important info from it.
Edit Just because its on the same server doesn't mean we won't be separate somehow as they have announced virtually zero details as to who will be able to added the single star system and planet we have been playing on so far. Since they can move your ship from one system to another on that server if they choose to. The point of an NDA is to limit those with access to information, so that how it looks during testing won't result in a negative image that hurts it later when it's changed completely. By making it so that ABSOLUTELY ANYONE THAT WANTS ACCESS can see for themselves, they completely negate the purpose of an NDA. Sure, I can post it online for all to see, but I can sure as hell say "hey, you all interested in DUST? here's how you get in immediately, and you can see the problems." That statement doesn't breach NDA, and anyone that wants to can see it, and it calls attention to it SO people can see it. Now I'm not saying Dust isn't good. All things considered, I think it's a great game so far. But at the end of the day, with the admission requirements they're setting, the purpose of an NDA is completely defeated. because when ANYONE can get access and see first hand, there's no point in saying you can't spread info. You don't need to, just invite a mate over, have him make a PSN account, and agree to the NDA when he logs in. ANYONE can see it with these terms, thus rendering an NDA pointless. I'm not against NDAs, by the way. I simply recognize that with these changes the beta is no longer closed, and a NDA no longer serves it purpose: limiting information to those you wanted in. The new terms let ANYONE in. Doesn't change the function or purpose of a Non Disclosure Agreement. Have you read the entire thing? I admit I did not but I skimmed through each section so that I would have a basic understanding of its terms. Basically the first rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club. The second rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club. Outside of fight club that is. That all it does is establish the fact that if talk about something in the beta outside of the beta or its forums they can do something about it if they want to, it's not some method to control access. You're confusing the wording (which I HAVE read verbatim, as I always do with anything but EULAs) with the purpose and intent.
The purpose of an NDA is to prevent information you're exposed to from being available outside of the selected group, due to potential harm or advantage/disadvantage. By making it so ANYONE can join (Merc Pack + all active EVE players, on a console with free accounts) the purpose and intent is completely defeated.
That's the reason we're saying, if they're opening it up to this extent, they should eliminate the NDA, because it's no longer meaningful. Anyone that wants to know, can and will know. No one who so much as KNOWS someone with a PS3 is unable to see everything that's protected by the NDA, and so the NDA no longer does anything meaningful to prevent disclosure. All I have to do is invite my buddy over that either A) plays eve, or B) is willing to buy the merc pack, and they can see everything, and because they're part of the beta now, I can tell them everything. |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 23:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
And that is the point they are a part of the beta and have the legal standing to have the info. Perhaps you are forgetting the hundreds of millions of people who don't have a PS3. Some of which may be competitors to CCP. Yes the more people with access the more people who will be willing to breach NDA. The NDA gives CCP the right to sue people for such an action if they so chose. Without that protection CCP would be in serious trouble and have nothing they could do about it.
Also they have also stated that it will remain in effect until further notice. Whether hotly think it has a point or not does not matter now does it. They are protecting themselves with a legal document. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 00:31:00 -
[36] - Quote
Bones1182 wrote:And that is the point they are a part of the beta and have the legal standing to have the info. Perhaps you are forgetting the hundreds of millions of people who don't have a PS3. Some of which may be competitors to CCP. Yes the more people with access the more people who will be willing to breach NDA. The NDA gives CCP the right to sue people for such an action if they so chose. Without that protection CCP would be in serious trouble and have nothing they could do about it.
Also they have also stated that it will remain in effect until further notice. Whether hotly think it has a point or not does not matter now does it. They are protecting themselves with a legal document. The statements they gave in this thread are to be expected. It doesn't change the facts I've pointed out.
I understand what you're saying, but again, when they make it effectively an open beta like they are, an NDA serves no real purpose. All that competitor has to do is make a PSN account and drop 20 USD; good luck proving they based w/e they do on Dust and didn't do it on their own.
It's logical to lift the NDA when they make it this open, myself and the OP are simply pointing it out so it doesn't get overlooked. If things are as far along as they sound, the extra hype and publicity from lifting the NDA would be beneficial, especially for a free2play. |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 12:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
It has been this open since they introduced the merc pack. The recent events changed very little. The NDA still gives them the right prosecute anyone they catch blatantly violating the NDA which I am sure their legal department has fully advised them on the pros and cons of leaving it place or removing it. I would have to bet those lawyers that CCP is paying know what they doing at least well enough and probably a lot better than you, the OP or myself.
In short if lawyers tell them to leave it in place that is what they will do regardless of anything else as it will still.give them the ability to prosecute blatant breaches of the agreement which is all it ever did, no more no less. |
Corban Lahnder
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
158
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 13:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
GM's Quick question.
In EVE we have singularity. When they prepare to release new content they throw it up on singularity. If people make videos of that stuff like: the videos of the new nebulae and Tier 3 BC from crucible, no one gets there teeth kicked in legally.
If I want to make a training video to help explain in greater detail the finer points of this game, that would be a huge breech of NDA even if I didnt use ingame footage, because eventually I would be explaining concepts you havent revealed to the general public yet.
Now I know EVE is done, so showing stuff from singularity is a big difference then posting a video of this current build on you tube. But what competitive advantage or protection is the NDA giving you specifically with this product?
Is it just because the Beta shows very specific things and you dont want it to be confused with the whole of the game?
That I would understand. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
437
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 13:18:00 -
[39] - Quote
The average EVE player probably know more about NDA's than most of you guys, considering pretty much all interaction with the CSM hits the NDA wall. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 13:19:00 -
[40] - Quote
@Bones1182
Knowing CCP on a personal level after nearly 5 years of playing their game, participating in the Council of Stellar Management Elections, communicating with them directly, following them on Twitter and G+, etc., I can safely state that CCP is more than likely not going to waste their time suing people if the NDA is breached. From a business point of view, it just makes more sense to ban then (either through their account or through the hardware) rather than to sue them because of the diverse and conflicting laws that exist around the world. That and the fact that CCP is in Iceland with their server located in England that is filled with players from at least 4 continents. I have studied law to some degree and I can say that the legalities here in regards to suing make lawsuits practically pointless*.
======HOWEVER========
This thread is not about the legalities of lawsuit in an international sense and I don't want this thread to stray into such a complex topic in which no one can find an agreement in. This topic is about whether or not if CCP keeps the NDA in effect once the closed beta is linked to a public test server in which over 400,000 subscribers can access all at once. If so, how are they going to handle it?
Let's take into account the fact that not all of the 400,000 subscribers have a PS3. So they will either give away the beta code to someone they know has a PS3 and internet connection or they will just let it sit there in their Account Management Voucher until it expires on the year 2020. Not only that, most of those codes may end up in the hands of people who are more than willing to violate the NDA simply on the grounds that it is so easy to access the beta at that point.
But as GM Nythanos pointed out, they will let us know when the NDA gets lifted. So until then, we're just speculating here.
EDIT:
* - This is only under the situation presented by the NDA. Other things like patents, crime, etc. are an entirely different beast. |
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Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 13:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
That was kind of my point the entire time the question was answered and beyond that we are all just guessing.
As to your other points. Without the NDA on what grounds would they be able to ban the idiots who breach the NDA so blatantly that it is easy to find and deal them, answer they would have very little. The NDA makes it easy for them to do so.
Just because 400,000 can added the does not mean that they will not close of the systems in which the Dust battles are taking place and only allow certain individuals who agree to another NDA for the purposes of testing orbital strikes.
I feel that they should not have opened the beta as much as they have but that has far more to do with IGN and the merc pack then the invites on EvE. Being as that if you are an EvE player who received a beta key and you registered your PSN account to the same e-mail address they could ban both if you manage to make them angry enough.
The number or people still does negate the purpose of NDA it merely makes it more difficult to enforce, bit it will still function regardless of if the numbers actually reaches the millions, which I highly doubt it will. Just because something is difficult does not you should not try after all. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 13:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
@Bones1182
I agree.
Perhaps CCP might lift the NDA on August 21st just for the sake of reducing headaches. Besides, judging from the Precursor Patch Notes below, it looks like the game will be solid enough for a more open beta.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30002&find=unread
But I'm just speculating with some wishful thinking. But who knows? |
Bones1182
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 13:58:00 -
[43] - Quote
I can only hope the build lives up to the patch notes. I believe it will but I tend not to believe it until I see it.
I cannot wait to see some of that stuff. I was hoping for laser rifles though :-( . |
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