DUST Search - NDA and More Eve Players [CCP, please read]

Bones1182 wrote:

Geirskoegul wrote:

Bones1182 wrote:

The point of the NDA remains the same,anyone who is publishing info without CCP's consent is liable and can be sued for said.breach. While that will only apply to those who log onto their ps3 and download it. If it is there it gives CCP recourse do something about people who violate the agreement.

How many of you even read the whole thing anyway, I know I didn't but I did skim it and got most of the important info from it.

Edit
Just because its on the same server doesn't mean we won't be separate somehow as they have announced virtually zero details as to who will be able to added the single star system and planet we have been playing on so far. Since they can move your ship from one system to another on that server if they choose to.

The point of an NDA is to limit those with access to information, so that how it looks during testing won't result in a negative image that hurts it later when it's changed completely.

By making it so that ABSOLUTELY ANYONE THAT WANTS ACCESS can see for themselves, they completely negate the purpose of an NDA. Sure, I can post it online for all to see, but I can sure as hell say "hey, you all interested in DUST? here's how you get in immediately, and you can see the problems." That statement doesn't breach NDA, and anyone that wants to can see it, and it calls attention to it SO people can see it.

Now I'm not saying Dust isn't good. All things considered, I think it's a great game so far. But at the end of the day, with the admission requirements they're setting, the purpose of an NDA is completely defeated. because when ANYONE can get access and see first hand, there's no point in saying you can't spread info. You don't need to, just invite a mate over, have him make a PSN account, and agree to the NDA when he logs in. ANYONE can see it with these terms, thus rendering an NDA pointless.

I'm not against NDAs, by the way. I simply recognize that with these changes the beta is no longer closed, and a NDA no longer serves it purpose: limiting information to those you wanted in. The new terms let ANYONE in.

Doesn't change the function or purpose of a Non Disclosure Agreement. Have you read the entire thing? I admit I did not but I skimmed through each section so that I would have a basic understanding of its terms.

Basically the first rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club.
The second rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club.
Outside of fight club that is.

That all it does is establish the fact that if talk about something in the beta outside of the beta or its forums they can do something about it if they want to, it's not some method to control access.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.08.09 16:36:00 - [1] - Quote Pretty valid point. Between the Merc Pack for PS3-only players, and opening it up indefinitely for ALL EVE subscribers, this beta becomes, for all intents and purposes, an open beta. There's not much point in an NDA once the switch is flipped for EVE subscribers.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.08.09 20:24:00 - [2] - Quote Bones1182 wrote: For the record the singularity server is the EvE test server which while I do not know for certain but I would expect it to be covered under NDA since that is where they test unreleased build of EvE. Tranquility is the live EvE server. As another pointed out, SISI is a PUBLIC test server. The restricted ones are Chaos and Duality (which are either dev/BH-only, or are normally dev/BH-only but allow others during special events). If it's on SISI, it's as good as public, as anyone with an active account at the time of the last database mirror can access it (that is, you were active when they mirrored, but have since let your subscription expire, you can STILL access it).
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.08.09 20:40:00 - [3] - Quote Milk Supreme wrote: You can't really see anything on sisi. All the sensitive information would be related to how the game feels and plays, not the production price of certain weapons of vehicles, which really can't change much anyway. 1) SISI's still public 2) They're opening the Dust beta itself, on PS3, to anyone with an active EVE subscription (read: 100% of the people that are able to access SISI, if they have a PS3 or buy one) That's the reason for what we're saying. There's no good reason to keep the NDA once that goes live, because it effectively becomes an open beta at that point. All you need is to either A) play EVE and own a PS3, or B) own a PS3 and buy the merc pack, and you have full access. For all intents and purposes, it becomes an open beta at that point, and there's no logic to an NDA on an open beta, because anyone that wants to see can gain access.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.08.09 21:06:00 - [4] - Quote Bones1182 wrote: The point of the NDA remains the same,anyone who is publishing info without CCP's consent is liable and can be sued for said.breach. While that will only apply to those who log onto their ps3 and download it. If it is there it gives CCP recourse do something about people who violate the agreement. How many of you even read the whole thing anyway, I know I didn't but I did skim it and got most of the important info from it. Edit Just because its on the same server doesn't mean we won't be separate somehow as they have announced virtually zero details as to who will be able to added the single star system and planet we have been playing on so far. Since they can move your ship from one system to another on that server if they choose to. The point of an NDA is to limit those with access to information, so that how it looks during testing won't result in a negative image that hurts it later when it's changed completely. By making it so that ABSOLUTELY ANYONE THAT WANTS ACCESS can see for themselves, they completely negate the purpose of an NDA. Sure, I can post it online for all to see, but I can sure as hell say "hey, you all interested in DUST? here's how you get in immediately, and you can see the problems." That statement doesn't breach NDA, and anyone that wants to can see it, and it calls attention to it SO people can see it. Now I'm not saying Dust isn't good. All things considered, I think it's a great game so far. But at the end of the day, with the admission requirements they're setting, the purpose of an NDA is completely defeated. because when ANYONE can get access and see first hand, there's no point in saying you can't spread info. You don't need to, just invite a mate over, have him make a PSN account, and agree to the NDA when he logs in. ANYONE can see it with these terms, thus rendering an NDA pointless. I'm not against NDAs, by the way. I simply recognize that with these changes the beta is no longer closed, and a NDA no longer serves it purpose: limiting information to those you wanted in. The new terms let ANYONE in.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.08.09 22:59:00 - [5] - Quote Bones1182 wrote: Geirskoegul wrote: Bones1182 wrote: The point of the NDA remains the same,anyone who is publishing info without CCP's consent is liable and can be sued for said.breach. While that will only apply to those who log onto their ps3 and download it. If it is there it gives CCP recourse do something about people who violate the agreement. How many of you even read the whole thing anyway, I know I didn't but I did skim it and got most of the important info from it. Edit Just because its on the same server doesn't mean we won't be separate somehow as they have announced virtually zero details as to who will be able to added the single star system and planet we have been playing on so far. Since they can move your ship from one system to another on that server if they choose to. The point of an NDA is to limit those with access to information, so that how it looks during testing won't result in a negative image that hurts it later when it's changed completely. By making it so that ABSOLUTELY ANYONE THAT WANTS ACCESS can see for themselves, they completely negate the purpose of an NDA. Sure, I can post it online for all to see, but I can sure as hell say "hey, you all interested in DUST? here's how you get in immediately, and you can see the problems." That statement doesn't breach NDA, and anyone that wants to can see it, and it calls attention to it SO people can see it. Now I'm not saying Dust isn't good. All things considered, I think it's a great game so far. But at the end of the day, with the admission requirements they're setting, the purpose of an NDA is completely defeated. because when ANYONE can get access and see first hand, there's no point in saying you can't spread info. You don't need to, just invite a mate over, have him make a PSN account, and agree to the NDA when he logs in. ANYONE can see it with these terms, thus rendering an NDA pointless. I'm not against NDAs, by the way. I simply recognize that with these changes the beta is no longer closed, and a NDA no longer serves it purpose: limiting information to those you wanted in. The new terms let ANYONE in. Doesn't change the function or purpose of a Non Disclosure Agreement. Have you read the entire thing? I admit I did not but I skimmed through each section so that I would have a basic understanding of its terms. Basically the first rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club. The second rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club. Outside of fight club that is. That all it does is establish the fact that if talk about something in the beta outside of the beta or its forums they can do something about it if they want to, it's not some method to control access. You're confusing the wording (which I HAVE read verbatim, as I always do with anything but EULAs) with the purpose and intent. The purpose of an NDA is to prevent information you're exposed to from being available outside of the selected group, due to potential harm or advantage/disadvantage. By making it so ANYONE can join (Merc Pack + all active EVE players, on a console with free accounts) the purpose and intent is completely defeated. That's the reason we're saying, if they're opening it up to this extent, they should eliminate the NDA, because it's no longer meaningful. Anyone that wants to know, can and will know. No one who so much as KNOWS someone with a PS3 is unable to see everything that's protected by the NDA, and so the NDA no longer does anything meaningful to prevent disclosure. All I have to do is invite my buddy over that either A) plays eve, or B) is willing to buy the merc pack, and they can see everything, and because they're part of the beta now, I can tell them everything.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.08.10 00:31:00 - [6] - Quote Bones1182 wrote: And that is the point they are a part of the beta and have the legal standing to have the info. Perhaps you are forgetting the hundreds of millions of people who don't have a PS3. Some of which may be competitors to CCP. Yes the more people with access the more people who will be willing to breach NDA. The NDA gives CCP the right to sue people for such an action if they so chose. Without that protection CCP would be in serious trouble and have nothing they could do about it. Also they have also stated that it will remain in effect until further notice. Whether hotly think it has a point or not does not matter now does it. They are protecting themselves with a legal document. The statements they gave in this thread are to be expected. It doesn't change the facts I've pointed out. I understand what you're saying, but again, when they make it effectively an open beta like they are, an NDA serves no real purpose. All that competitor has to do is make a PSN account and drop 20 USD; good luck proving they based w/e they do on Dust and didn't do it on their own. It's logical to lift the NDA when they make it this open, myself and the OP are simply pointing it out so it doesn't get overlooked. If things are as far along as they sound, the extra hype and publicity from lifting the NDA would be beneficial, especially for a free2play.