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Berserker007
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
206
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Posted - 2012.08.07 21:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
As title says, as im still trying to figure it out, what exactly is the difference b/t a corp & a clan? |
Tawkis
2
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Posted - 2012.08.07 21:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Semantics.
Corporations are in effect EVE's clans. |
Chao Wolf
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
209
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Posted - 2012.08.07 21:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Corp is alot more then just a bunch of players working together. Any thing more detailed then that sorry can't help, I'm still trying to learn it all myself. |
JAG ONE
97
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 21:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
I would say 1 major difference is that corporations in EVE own assets.. Often billions of ISK worth, and that there are defined ranks/roles that govern who has access to those assets. |
Icy Tiger
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 22:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Corps are more in depth. They rely on each other, and share resources. |
Berserker007
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
206
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 23:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Guess next Q would be, can u be in a clan and a corp that are different? Ex: in clan A, but corp Dust? |
V Shadow
DUST University Ivy League
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 23:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Berserker007 wrote:Guess next Q would be, can u be in a clan and a corp that are different? Ex: in clan A, but corp Dust?
I would say no.
If i understand your question you are implying that both corps and clans are in existence within dust (eve). there will only be corps which would work as a clan. |
Raynor Ragna
266
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 23:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Berserker007 wrote:Guess next Q would be, can u be in a clan and a corp that are different? Ex: in clan A, but corp Dust?
There will only be mechanics for corporations. You can obviously form a clan and have the members in different corps. You just won't get many benifits and the likelihood that corp will throw you out is very high.
A Corporation is an ingame entity that owns assets and allows certain selected players to control those assets. Clans in most games is nothing more than a tag and an agreed code on conduct.
In Eve I was apart of an anti-pirate corporation but I would often 'group' with a mass of totally different people (often complete pirates) to go and grief anyone we saw fit. I think it was called gank night. We'd have 100+ people running through nullsec and lowsec popping anyone we saw. Twas great fun. |
Berserker007
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
206
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 23:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ok, that helps a lot as have seen terms clans and corps thrown around, so was hard to figure if they were technically the same, or different.
I do know alliances will occur b/t corps then .... but yeah, tnx for the info all that replied |
Mirun Hirute
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 23:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Berserker007 wrote:Ok, that helps a lot as have seen terms clans and corps thrown around, so was hard to figure if they were technically the same, or different.
I do know alliances will occur b/t corps then .... but yeah, tnx for the info all that replied All you need to know is that people using the term clans are coming from other online FPS scenes and have yet to learn the EVE/Dust terminology. There are only corporations here. This is the future, not medieval or pseudomodern days. |
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 23:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
A well organized Corporation will outstomp an extremly well clan any day.
Numbers, Logistics, Roles, Displine, let alone morale warfare and diplomacy.
Omg Clans having to learn diplomacy.... |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 23:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
At it's most basic, a corporation in Eve is a formal group of pilots. Like the real world, the corporation is run by a single CEO, who may or may not appoint Directors. Directors are, for all intents and purposes, the same as a CEO, but would report to the CEO.
Depending on the size of the corporation, roles may be created to manage specific areas of the corporation. As the corp grows, the demands on the CEO can grow to the point that he is managing the corp and not really playing the game. That's where these formal roles come into play (and yes there are actual game mechanics to these roles, for example a recruiter can accept applictions but may not be able to access corporation assets, just depending on the amount of access he has been given).
Common Roles:
Fleet Commander Field Commander Mining Foreman Manufacturing Foreman Recruiter
Other roles may be created with custom mechanics to manage parts of the corporation.
Pilots must apply to join a corporation, and there is often an intensive interview process.
Corporations can also declare war against other corporation. This is a mechanic that allows a shooting war even in space where PvP is not generally allowed (high security). As there are thousands of corporations, this means that there is never a shortage of war targets, if that is your thing. By comparison, in WoW, if you are human, you can only attack Horde. Someone on your side you don't like? Too bad. In Eve, someone you don't like is in your corporation, you can kick him (if you have those roles) or you can leave and form a new corporation. You can then declare war on his corporation (provided he isn't in an NPC corporation).
Additionally, corporations can set official standings toward other corporations. A "blue" corp is friendly; a "red" corp is not. While these have no mechanics other than flagging those pilots to you, they allow you to know friend from foe in non-shooting situations (though in low security space you may still decide to attack them. These standings open up the door for true diplomatic relations between corporations; as a Director of an alliance, I know all about these. "Blue" status is very valuable in this universe.
Corporations also own assets, like Player Owned Structures, or POS. These are not space stations in the classic sense, but do provide a safe haven for pilots and other individual assets. They also provide the means for industry not otherwise available. (Industry equals alchemy in other games.)
Corporations have their own goals in the game (a PvP corp, a PvE corp, an industrial corp, etc), but may join up officially with other corporations to form Alliances. These alliances work together, often with the goal of claiming sovereinty over solar system, and entire regions of "null security" space (no protection from the in game "police").
Hope this makes sense. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 00:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:At it's most basic, a corporation in Eve is a formal group of pilots. Like the real world, the corporation is run by a single CEO, who may or may not appoint Directors. Directors are, for all intents and purposes, the same as a CEO, but would report to the CEO.
Depending on the size of the corporation, roles may be created to manage specific areas of the corporation. As the corp grows, the demands on the CEO can grow to the point that he is managing the corp and not really playing the game. That's where these formal roles come into play (and yes there are actual game mechanics to these roles, for example a recruiter can accept applictions but may not be able to access corporation assets, just depending on the amount of access he has been given).
Common Roles:
Fleet Commander Field Commander Mining Foreman Manufacturing Foreman Recruiter
Other roles may be created with custom mechanics to manage parts of the corporation.
Pilots must apply to join a corporation, and there is often an intensive interview process.
Corporations can also declare war against other corporation. This is a mechanic that allows a shooting war even in space where PvP is not generally allowed (high security). As there are thousands of corporations, this means that there is never a shortage of war targets, if that is your thing. By comparison, in WoW, if you are human, you can only attack Horde. Someone on your side you don't like? Too bad. In Eve, someone you don't like is in your corporation, you can kick him (if you have those roles) or you can leave and form a new corporation. You can then declare war on his corporation (provided he isn't in an NPC corporation).
Additionally, corporations can set official standings toward other corporations. A "blue" corp is friendly; a "red" corp is not. While these have no mechanics other than flagging those pilots to you, they allow you to know friend from foe in non-shooting situations (though in low security space you may still decide to attack them. These standings open up the door for true diplomatic relations between corporations; as a Director of an alliance, I know all about these. "Blue" status is very valuable in this universe.
Corporations also own assets, like Player Owned Structures, or POS. These are not space stations in the classic sense, but do provide a safe haven for pilots and other individual assets. They also provide the means for industry not otherwise available. (Industry equals alchemy in other games.)
Corporations have their own goals in the game (a PvP corp, a PvE corp, an industrial corp, etc), but may join up officially with other corporations to form Alliances. These alliances work together, often with the goal of claiming sovereinty over solar system, and entire regions of "null security" space (no protection from the in game "police").
Hope this makes sense. ^ best answer. |
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
711
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 00:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Reading |
Mo Gallas Gentralde
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
178
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 00:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:A well organized Corporation will outstomp an extremly well clan any day.
Numbers, Logistics, Roles, Displine, let alone morale warfare and diplomacy.
Omg Clans having to learn diplomacy....
Unfortunately, with the drop'n go mentality of many clans.. if 2-3 of them got riled up at a single target... even if it was a very excellent Corp, the likelihood that the Corp will come out ahead.. is very low. Corps have assets to defend... Clans do not- this means that clans could effectively whittle away at a Corp in DUST. Also, clans will far outnumber corps, so it could literally be a landmine field for a while.
This is assuming Dust corp vs a Dust clan, not EVE corp, I have no idea what might happen till we start seeing our connections fly through. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 00:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mo Gallas Gentralde wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:A well organized Corporation will outstomp an extremly well clan any day.
Numbers, Logistics, Roles, Displine, let alone morale warfare and diplomacy.
Omg Clans having to learn diplomacy.... Unfortunately, with the drop'n go mentality of many clans.. if 2-3 of them got riled up at a single target... even if it was a very excellent Corp, the likelihood that the Corp will come out ahead.. is very low. Corps have assets to defend... Clans do not- this means that clans could effectively whittle away at a Corp in DUST. Also, clans will far outnumber corps, so it could literally be a landmine field for a while. This is assuming Dust corp vs a Dust clan, not EVE corp, I have no idea what might happen till we start seeing our connections fly through.
Can you explain clan? This is not a mechanic in the game, so I'm not sure what you are talking about and I haven't played a game with "clans" in a long time.
And for the record, the fact that corps have assets give them something tangible to fight for, assuming they have the kinds of assets that can be targeted. Not all corps have assets in space (like POS) or own sovereignty. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 00:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
There is no difference. It's just semantics as Tawkis mentioned earlier. They are both one and the same. It's like comparing a clan to a guild. No difference. It's just a group of players organizing for a common purpose that they all share. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 00:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:There is no difference. It's just semantics as Tawkis mentioned earlier. They are both one and the same. It's like comparing a clan to a guild. No difference. It's just a group of players organizing for a common purpose that they all share.
I mean from a mechanics standpoint. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 01:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
They're the same. EvE people seem to like being special in the gaming community. Clans aren't good enough apparently... Not that you organise clans into various roles, leadership ect ect... Anyone tells you different, you slap 'em with a big stick of common sense. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 01:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:They're the same. EvE people seem to like being special in the gaming community. Clans aren't good enough apparently... Not that you organise clans into various roles, leadership ect ect... Anyone tells you different, you slap 'em with a big stick of common sense.
I never said Eve was better in any way. I was asking am honest question regarding mechanics in other MMOs. Instead of being defensive, would you be willing to help me understand something I'm readily admitting I don't know regarding mechanics in the games you normally play?
My opinion is we are all Dust players today and the games you play don't mean you are a better or worse person or gamer to me. |
|
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 01:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
I never seen clans form bootcamps, trainings schools, hiring entire teams of media experts, a well established spy/intel/spin network, or gain enough power to rival an NPC faction. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 02:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Tony Calif wrote:They're the same. EvE people seem to like being special in the gaming community. Clans aren't good enough apparently... Not that you organise clans into various roles, leadership ect ect... Anyone tells you different, you slap 'em with a big stick of common sense. I never said Eve was better in any way. I was asking am honest question regarding mechanics in other MMOs. Instead of being defensive, would you be willing to help me understand something I'm readily admitting I don't know regarding mechanics in the games you normally play? My opinion is we are all Dust players today and the games you play don't mean you are a better or worse person or gamer to me.
Woah there. Your post was good stuff, and my comment isn't directly aimed at you in anyway. I'm just saying that corps and clans are the same. You went into depth about what a corp involves, I was simply saying clans organise too, more at all the people saying they're different. You get bad corps, you get bad clans. You get good corps, and you get good clans. It really is semantics, and how clan support works in EvE (without corp/alliance features, EvE wouldn't have lasted this long. CCP bringing people together. To troll :D ). |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 04:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Let me say one thing, How many spies have any of these dust 'clans' caught so far.
Soki reports at least over 120 spies have been inserted already. Most of them where classed 'sabatour' agents. |
testguy242
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 04:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
"Clan" is a word from FPSes dating back to at least Quake.
An EVE/DUST corporation is an entity with a CEO, a board of directors, shares of stock, voting, property ownership, a very complex multiple account system for corp funds, and a complex permissions system with different assignable roles. They also support taxes on members and paying out money to members or stockholders.
A clan is a group of people that play together.
DUST will have no clans. It will have corporations. Corporations will at some point be integrated with EVE corporations. |
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
711
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 04:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tomatoes Tamatoe. Same ish.
|
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 04:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
I am just seriously asking how many clans have found spies in thier groups so far? |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 06:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I am just seriously asking how many clans have found spies in thier groups so far?
It doesn't matter because clans can't fight corporations or behalf of other corporations (unless they allow you to go solo and accept contracts from a corporation without the need of your own corporation being assigned one), and why would you spy on a clan anyway? |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 06:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Eirnin Solista wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I am just seriously asking how many clans have found spies in thier groups so far? It doesn't matter because clans can't fight corporations or behalf of other corporations (unless they allow you to go solo and accept contracts from a corporation without the need of your own corporation being assigned one), and why would you spy on a clan anyway?
The same reasons you'd infiltrate an enemy corporation.
Also it matters now as stated in the warning I posted.
By the time corproatations by dust 514 players are possible some of these infiltrators are expected to be XO level or even possibly CEO of the compnay. |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 06:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:[
The same reasons you'd infiltrate an enemy corporation.
Also it matters now as stated in the warning I posted.
Not really because, well... they really can't do anything.
It doesn't matter if a clan has spies or not, there's really nothing to spy on. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 06:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Eirnin Solista wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:[
The same reasons you'd infiltrate an enemy corporation.
Also it matters now as stated in the warning I posted. Not really because, well... they really can't do anything. It doesn't matter if a clan has spies or not, there's really nothing to spy on.
And failure to see this will result in being one of the first victims. |
|
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 06:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: And failure to see this will result in being one of the first victims.
Spying, or a clan? 0.o |
John Surratt
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 07:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
The difference can be semantics or a completely different paradigm.
Most EVE corps, especially highsec only corps are little different than standard MMO guilds or online gaming clans. A bunch of randoms dudes who you don't know really, in a text chat channel. Sometimes they can have a core identity such as a regional or nationalistic or language, but they often do not.
What does set even these apart from other gaming groups is the many tools and assignable roles for asset management that the EVE client has. It makes a "guild bank" in a elf and wizard based MMO look like child's play. As EVE (and also DUST) is a sandbox game, social interaction is the force which drives the content, not dev created content. These tools, along with things like contracts (which are exactly what they sound like) help give a framework and tools for the meta game.
This is where the talk of "simple corps" comes in to the mix in the CSM summit notes . There is no need for the majority of the roles in an EVE corp as no merc will ever need to "Config Starbase Equipment" etc. . . (page 72) . I'm not even gonna touch on things like station management, standings, or shares. Until the market between the two games and 0.0 gameplay get figured out there is no need for things like managing corporate contracts or setting standings.
The corp UI is terribad and hopefully will be overhauled "SoonGäó" in EVE and made easier to use on a console for DUST.
Corps can form alliances, which are like uber corporations, numbering into the thousands. The alliances can have outside identities such as Goonswarm (from the somethingaweful.com forums gaming section) & TEST (same basically but from Reddit), nationalistic origins such as RED.Overlord (Russians) or the Russian speaking half of AAA, or just be groups of various EVE corps like many of them are. They can even be (ugh!) roleplayers like CVA (Amarr Victor!)
Some corps or alliances are also gaming clans in their own right as they have a multi game presence. Members choose to play any number of games with their closest brocefs, playing whatever and wherever the collective gaming ADD takes them next while keeping a core presence in EVE, and hopefully soon, DUST.
Currently there is much salivation over Mechwarrior Online and Planetside2 in my corp.
I'd dearly love to get some of the FPS only crowd on our coms and give him a dose of our alliance leader's management philosophy, as he is an old mossback FPS player. Dude's been gaming since Al Gore invented online FPS. |
Terrarim
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 08:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Clans are allot more sophisticated than some Eve members are making out. As someone asked I will go into some details of some of the work done by FPS clans.
For example with my former Counter Strike Clan we did the following.
A clan identity including artwork, a website, forum, clan tag.
Rules, a code of conduct and aims and ambitions.
A recruiting process.
A hierarchy of Clan leader officers members and trialists and affiliates.
People with clearly defined responsibilities such as website/forum admin, server admins, real world money payments for rented server/ clan match organization, recruitment etc.
To train people in the basics of fpsGÇÖs
To train together in order to better prepare for organized clan tourneyGÇÖs, ladders (organized time on clan server)
Meet in ICQ (and/or voice chat program) to discuss forthcoming match tactics, discuss any intel on opponents weaknesses strengths etc.
Rent or own and be responsible for own clan server with its own rules etc.
So its not right to dismiss other clans out of hand as people must organize training, events, real world money for server higher, clan meetings etc.
|
Terrarim
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 08:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
In MAG due to the somewhat MMO nature of the game the clans were even more sophisticated:
MAG In addition due to the way mag was made up with three factions clans also had the following:
Clans arranged for alliances to try to work towards a goal on a given day or time whether it was to dominate acquisition or domination maps for example. There were several weekends at peak where large alliances of clans from all three factions would vie for control of a battleground. The fun thing was that other clans not directly contacted would also try to help to due to the fact they were in that faction.
Clans actually split into areas of specialty within factions with some clans (=V= Clan of Valor) for example had a Valor only policy, but open to recruiting new people with the intent of training them in aspects of the game from basic fps, to mag specific training to advanced tactical training and getting the followers to work as a team in order to complete game objectives.
Other clans recruited the best of the best and aimed to be the elite forces of that faction and while at MAG's peak they couldn't put numbers like the larger clans the fact that they were so good ensured that they dominated in their areas of operation (Dark Flock was an example on Raven).
While Eve is allot more sophisticated and has the game mechanics for huge organizations, alliances and skullduggery. I don't think its fair to dismiss that clans have used many of the same things that eve are proud of including spies on either side to see when alliances would push for a certain contract. To amassing alliances of clans to acheave a sustained objective over a 48 hour period. And this was done without the help of any game mechanics making the organization of such events much more difficult than Eve with those mechanics built in. Diplomacy was part of MAG without which those events would not have been possible.
Also like eve Mag had clans that hated each other within the same faction and this often spilled onto the mag forum boards etc.
While I am sure that Eve corporations think rightly they have a huge leg up on any interlopers into their universe due to their experience with the game, the mechanics of the game. To think that players from clans particularly those from games like MAG have no experience in diplomacy, in organizing alliances, in training players, in recruiting, in planning and executing a sustained objective over a long time is naive.
Neither have such clans been above using spies in rival organizations to counter plans.
So I do resent that some eve players think that clans are very rudimentary. I hope that the above shows that despite games having the mechanics to allow them to do so like in EVE clans in other games like MAG has been quite sophisticated in everything from recruiting, training, diplomacy, planning, execution of alliance plans.
|
Apocro Mancer
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 08:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
The only clans in EVE are Minmatar. |
Eirnin Solista
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 08:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aha! I figured out the confusion!
@Clan People:
Many of the people here aren't saying that "EVE corporations are going to kill all clans!" What they are saying (I believe) is that in DUST you won't have a clan but a corporation that will let you use all sorts of features and manage assets and other things. Remember: a corporation is just a clan that's using the gameplay mechanics rather than "unofficial" unity between its members.
I don't know, sorry if I confused you worse. I'm tired, it's 4:12 AM here. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 08:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
This is so dumb. They're the same. |
carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 09:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
As described above any EvE corporation worth its salt has team speak, web forums et c. those that don't have will disintegrate quickly. Main difference between Eve and most other MMO games is time, yes time, the time it takes to gather all those resources even gathering ISK takes time and usually effort.
And by time I mean months and years since stuff don't make it self instantly by just gathering resources and slapping them to factory for example a single battle ship takes some 8 hours per ship to make so losing a say 400 of those in a single battle is definitely going to suck, let alone in cases of over 2000 pilots involved in a single fight.
I would assume that dust will have to settle for a clan like structure in the beginning as it seems we're going to be lucky to get even a shared corp tag and a chat channel at launch. They will transform to corps once the game starts supporting it but until then the old and tried clan structure has to do it. |
Minmatar Slave 74136
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
291
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 10:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
Apocro Mancer wrote:The only clans in EVE are Minmatar.
those are Tribes. ;)
And not the kind of Tribes that I cut my gamer teeth on. :D |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 12:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
Terrarim wrote:Clans are allot more sophisticated than some Eve members are making out. As someone asked I will go into some details of some of the work done by FPS clans.
For example with my former Counter Strike Clan we did the following.
A clan identity including artwork, a website, forum, clan tag.
Rules, a code of conduct and aims and ambitions.
A recruiting process.
A hierarchy of Clan leader officers members and trialists and affiliates.
People with clearly defined responsibilities such as website/forum admin, server admins, real world money payments for rented server/ clan match organization, recruitment etc.
To train people in the basics of fpsGÇÖs
To train together in order to better prepare for organized clan tourneyGÇÖs, ladders (organized time on clan server)
Meet in ICQ (and/or voice chat program) to discuss forthcoming match tactics, discuss any intel on opponents weaknesses strengths etc.
Rent or own and be responsible for own clan server with its own rules etc.
So its not right to dismiss other clans out of hand as people must organize training, events, real world money for server higher, clan meetings etc.
Management wise, they are the same.
Mechanic wise, the games may or may not be as in depth as Eve.
Got it. thanks. |
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Terrarim
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 14:23:00 -
[41] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Terrarim wrote:Clans are allot more sophisticated than some Eve members are making out. As someone asked I will go into some details of some of the work done by FPS clans.
For example with my former Counter Strike Clan we did the following.
A clan identity including artwork, a website, forum, clan tag.
Rules, a code of conduct and aims and ambitions.
A recruiting process.
A hierarchy of Clan leader officers members and trialists and affiliates.
People with clearly defined responsibilities such as website/forum admin, server admins, real world money payments for rented server/ clan match organization, recruitment etc.
To train people in the basics of fpsGÇÖs
To train together in order to better prepare for organized clan tourneyGÇÖs, ladders (organized time on clan server)
Meet in ICQ (and/or voice chat program) to discuss forthcoming match tactics, discuss any intel on opponents weaknesses strengths etc.
Rent or own and be responsible for own clan server with its own rules etc.
So its not right to dismiss other clans out of hand as people must organize training, events, real world money for server higher, clan meetings etc.
Management wise, they are the same. Mechanic wise, the games may or may not be as in depth as Eve. Got it. thanks.
Assuming your not being sarcastic (hard to tell on forums sometimes) your welcome and my pleasure.
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.08.08 15:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I never seen clans form bootcamps, trainings schools, hiring entire teams of media experts, a well established spy/intel/spin network, or gain enough power to rival an NPC faction.
*facepalm*
1. bootcamps, training sorry clans already do that
2. media experts? for what? do other games require it? no so obv not gonna waste time and energy on something that was not important in previous games
3. See part 2 above.....again previous games why would a clan need this?
4. lolNPC, sorry but lolwut? again previous games no NPC factions, why was this even brought up? clans fight each other or they pubstomp randoms all day
So dont judge clans on meaningless stuff we did not need to spend time and energy on in previous games, do not however mistake that for clans not seeing those as important ONLY IN NEW EDEN
3/4 of the stuff u mentioned serves 0 purpose from a clan perspective in other games hence the reason u never saw it 1/4 of the stuff u mentioned already happens sooooooo yeaaaaa...............gg
As for the guy who asked why would u spy on a clan....well in new eden u will be a corp and as described earlier u will have assets etc that can be stolen if a spy is in ur ranks. But tbh i dont think spies will play a big role till 0.0 update .......and tbh DUST still actually needs to turn out good 1st and foremost or ppl just wasting their time spying when clans might not even get the damn game if it boring or just doesnt stack up fps wise to other games which currently it doesnt |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.08.08 15:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
Those spies are least interested in your assests.
It just the bonus paycheck. |
Zerlathon
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
213
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Posted - 2012.08.08 15:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
I don't see why people are getting so riled up over this.
New Eden has Corporations & Alliances and other games have Clans, Guilds, etc...
It's true that running a Corporation in New Eden appears to involve alot more attention to detail (compared to your run-of-the-mill FPS Clan), but that's not to say that you should consider People's reference to Clans as any form of insult.
I have to admit, this is the 1st Community that I have seen where people get touchy on this simple misinterpretation. |
Terrarim
12
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Posted - 2012.08.08 15:58:00 -
[45] - Quote
Zerlathon wrote:I don't see why people are getting so riled up over this.
New Eden has Corporations & Alliances and other games have Clans, Guilds, etc...
It's true that running a Corporation in New Eden appears to involve alot more attention to detail (compared to your run-of-the-mill FPS Clan), but that's not to say that you should consider People's reference to Clans as any form of insult.
I have to admit, this is the 1st Community that I have seen where people get touchy on this simple misinterpretation.
Well people (like myself) might feel a little touchy when EVE people say this:
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I never seen clans form bootcamps, trainings schools, hiring entire teams of media experts, a well established spy/intel/spin network, or gain enough power to rival an NPC faction.
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Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
914
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Posted - 2012.08.08 16:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
Terrarim wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Terrarim wrote:Clans are allot more sophisticated than some Eve members are making out. As someone asked I will go into some details of some of the work done by FPS clans.
For example with my former Counter Strike Clan we did the following.
A clan identity including artwork, a website, forum, clan tag.
Rules, a code of conduct and aims and ambitions.
A recruiting process.
A hierarchy of Clan leader officers members and trialists and affiliates.
People with clearly defined responsibilities such as website/forum admin, server admins, real world money payments for rented server/ clan match organization, recruitment etc.
To train people in the basics of fpsGÇÖs
To train together in order to better prepare for organized clan tourneyGÇÖs, ladders (organized time on clan server)
Meet in ICQ (and/or voice chat program) to discuss forthcoming match tactics, discuss any intel on opponents weaknesses strengths etc.
Rent or own and be responsible for own clan server with its own rules etc.
So its not right to dismiss other clans out of hand as people must organize training, events, real world money for server higher, clan meetings etc.
Management wise, they are the same. Mechanic wise, the games may or may not be as in depth as Eve. Got it. thanks. Assuming your not being sarcastic (hard to tell on forums sometimes) your welcome and my pleasure.
No sarcasm - legit comment. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.08.08 16:27:00 -
[47] - Quote
Terrarim wrote:Zerlathon wrote:I don't see why people are getting so riled up over this.
New Eden has Corporations & Alliances and other games have Clans, Guilds, etc...
It's true that running a Corporation in New Eden appears to involve alot more attention to detail (compared to your run-of-the-mill FPS Clan), but that's not to say that you should consider People's reference to Clans as any form of insult.
I have to admit, this is the 1st Community that I have seen where people get touchy on this simple misinterpretation. Well people (like myself) might feel a little touchy when EVE people say this: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I never seen clans form bootcamps, trainings schools, hiring entire teams of media experts, a well established spy/intel/spin network, or gain enough power to rival an NPC faction.
Well Im sorry... PC clans left a really bad taste in my mouth when the owner of the only local pingable server banned me for killing his bot.
Also videos produced by some of these clans are not that encouraging none the less then again I suspect they're just a small population of them which make it unfourtunate the 'stupid' ones are the often the loudest and help set a bad sterotype. |
Stabber McShank
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2012.08.08 16:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
The difference between the successful Eve Corporations and many (but not all) FPS Clans show more at an out of game organization level.
Things Corps and Clans have in common (depending on the Corp/Clan obviously):
Forums
Defined "roles" for the Chain of Command
Training for new players - though oddly enough, this is more common in FPS Clans than MANY Eve Corps
Media Experts - Basically people who get the word out that your group kicks ass and the other groups don't. Everyone knows that having a good video showing your group dominating another group is a good thing as is taunting the vanquished in public forums.
Things that are common in Eve Corps but not often used in Console Based FPS Clans:
Dedicated Voice Coms capable of supporting over 1000 people - In the case of Eve Corps, most of these are tied directly to the API of the Characters themselves to prevent people from slipping through the cracks (person leaves but doesn't get his access revoked). Being forced to use whatever in-game voice options are offered can be problematic especially with the way CCP is known to program things. Having a dedicated Command channel and Battle channel at the same time makes coordination much easier. Especially when you decide to send 30k or more people to go burn Rome to the ground.
Dedicated Jabber Services - Private Group Chat servers with a nice "broadcast" system to send out alerts when all hell breaks loose. Someone spots 20 guys roaming your space, send out a broadcast and watch a fleet magically form. Some channels even allow enemy commanders to hang out. Just because you are the enemy doesn't mean we can't chill together (just don't expect anything opsec to be leaked). Most of the 0.0 Alliance members are constantly in contact with each other just shooting the **** online without having to bother playing the game (which means less burnouts when you NEED people online).
In-depth Wiki on every aspect of the game - Restricted to members only of course. You would not believe how useful having a good private wiki can be in a game as complex as CCP likes to design. Everything from fits, mechanics, tactics, guides, and even scamming lessons can be easily searched.
Intelligence/Counter Intel - Doesn't matter if you own assets or not. Knowledge is power and knowing when, where, and the strategy the enemy is planning to use on you WILL win wars. Receiving a real-time update of what the other team is doing (and saying) DURING THE BATTLE is more important than stealing crap that will easily be replaced. Anyone who thinks spies are going to be useless in the Faction Warfare Merc Groups are in for a MAJOR shock. Some groups have down right scary Counter-Intel programs that make you seriously doubt the sanity of the members.
None of this makes a Corp and better than a Clan, but it will give many Corps an edge (until the hardcore Clans play catch-up, which I seriously believe they will). |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.08.08 17:55:00 -
[49] - Quote
I can see the hardcore/hardheaded clans learning from black eyes easily and hopefully. |
Terrarim
12
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Posted - 2012.08.08 19:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
I think in the short term there wont be any damage done from dust players to eve players and vice versa until the game is fully integrated and that may take some time. In the mean time that will give dust players a chance to bone up on the various mechanism of eve and maybe look into the political aspects to.
I assume that EVE players do respect the amount of talent that the hardcore FPS crowd have particularly the ones who run in clans and work as teams as well as being individually excellent. The reason I make this assumption is all the types of spies supposedly being planted in clans at the moment.
A possible counter to some of the huge amounts of resources that the largest corps and alliances have may be the gorilla tactic of hiring elite dust teams to sabotage resources behind enemy lines etc. I would imagine being able to overtake ground assets and the like for surface to space fire may cause allot of damage to both planet-side and orbital assets.
In addition well trained and equipped teams may make taking back the planet costly in time and resources to.
This type of thing would be very interesting because if dust players can have this type of impact then the possibility of securing a relatively safe place to port into to conduct space warfare behind enemy lines will add another dimension to eve. Not only will this put value on dust(ites) but bring another level of strategy to the eve universe. |
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