You make good points.
How do you proposed people get better? As you stated, they are scared to get out of a vehicle because they're not good with a gun. So how should they improve?
I myself am bad at FPS but I'm out there constantly improving from 0/20 to 2/5 and beyond. Not all people are willing to take that plunge. I have a 0.35 KDR and don't really care. I'm basically in boot camp. Other's fear such low numbers because KDR matters so much to others.
I'm guessing that's the same reason we see so much spawn camping. People are fearful of their KDR for no reason as it does not matter.

As for other excuses, people should and will find their niche. The one missing link is that people must also accept that apart from an assault suit acting as point to the force, KDR isn't important. It's irrelevant.

Crutches-Some people sit in vehicles because they suck at the fps part of this game. So they hide in tanks and dropships and never cap an objective. They are the people who are to scared to get out and cap a clone reserve unit if given the opportunity. These people are just as bad as the people that run and gun and never cap an objective.

To clarify I know not all vehicular manslaughter players are guilty of this. No need to spam this thread about how you are not this person. Let your in game actions do the talking.

Wheelchairs-Sorry guys, I'm in a dedicated logi player so I suck at killing and I just went 2-30. This is not an legit excuse. Just because you are in a wheelchair doesn't mean you have to suck it up. If you already suck at basketball then being in a wheelchair isn't going to change much.



Whats your point crimson?

If a corp has to many people that need crutches and wheelchairs their W/L ratio will take a hit. Once a W/L ratio and corp battles are added to the leader boards, then you will see what I mean.

I know there are variables as far as teamwork and tactics go. That still does not excuse having these people in your corp. From a business stand point of course.

I don't know about you but i can hold an objective a lot better with a customized militia hav than most people can with a creodron. Are there even any large map fps that doesn't have vehicles?

Sounds like someone tried to cap an objective and got shot by a tank and is now all bitter about it.

This is so random. I'm not mad about anything. I just had some thoughts running through my head so I thought I would share. These are basics concepts for running a successful corp and I'm sorry if you can't discuss them without getting butthurt.

Sounds like someone needs and uses crutches.

Of course I use crutches, they are excellent for beating up people with.

I'll even use the wheelchair to speed down hills and crash it into groups of elite warriors if it means my team wins.

You missed the point.

/sigh

Crutches-Some people sit in vehicles because they suck at the fps part of this game. So they hide in tanks and dropships and never cap an objective. They are the people who are to scared to get out and cap a clone reserve unit if given the opportunity. These people are just as bad as the people that run and gun and never cap an objective.

To clarify I know not all vehicular manslaughter players are guilty of this. No need to spam this thread about how you are not this person. Let your in game actions do the talking.

Wheelchairs-Sorry guys, I'm a dedicated logi player so I suck at killing and I just went 2-30. This is not a legit excuse. Just because you are in a wheelchair doesn't mean you have to suck it up. If you already suck at basketball then being in a wheelchair isn't going to change much.



Whats your point crimson?

If a corp has to many people that need crutches and wheelchairs their W/L ratio will take a hit. Once a W/L ratio and corp battles are added to the leader boards, then you will see what I mean.

I know there are variables as far as teamwork and tactics go. That still does not excuse having these people in your corp. From a business stand point of course.

Why post this at all? People posting about others who suck at FPS or whatever are just being pompous and lacking class. Prideful people who are bad at people skills are drama queens begging for any corp they join to implode.

If you're good at something, then congrats. Welcome to the club. But making up smug names to label others who you feel are inferior based on your criteria is just acting like a douche.

I don't know you, and I'm not calling you anything based off one post, but this sort of thinking is counterproductive and rude.

Edit:

Expanding on this.. are combat medics supposed to be the top gunners too? Are logistics pilots supposed to have medic skills? Are snipers supposed to feed everyone also? It seems you over-value the foot infantry to the point of offending everyone else. I have a postive KDR despite being a console veteran, but if I sucked horribly, yet could fly and fit a dropship like nobody else in the game, would I be a weak link if I die due to a Proto AR guy? Hopefully you get my point.

Sounds like someone tried to cap an objective and got shot by a tank and is now all bitter about it.

However, you can't overlook the fact that the vehicles are there and you would be a fool not to use them. I have never spawned one vehicle in the Beta, but I have stolen and blown up A LOT! I don't see that vehicle drivers use it as a crutch, they are just having more fun with it than running and shooting. And I have more fun blasting those guys into a million pieces with my Swarm or Forge.

Someone had posted something about mixed skill corps and it got me thinking. Sorry if it offends you. I didn't make up any smug names, it was a metaphor. Also not being prideful, just discussing potential recruitment tactics.

This thread was more a fair warning to corp leaders/officers. If you recruit to many players that are handicapped in one way or another it will hurt your W/L ratio.

Its hard to fit/fly a vehicle? You can be bad at it but its not really hard imo. I did it last build and it was EZ mode. Just fly all over the map smashing people. Its not hard to fly around smashing people and I would much rather have a dropship pilot that knows how to kill people outside of their vehicle.

Tell me this, if I have 20 million skill points invested in vehicles, pilot suit, proto large turrets, proto small turrets, max shield & armor skills, etc.. do you think it would be reasonable to do well in the outside? Should I dump 1/2 of that into stuff I rarely ever use to make you happy? Should I spend hours a day practicing for side skills instead of improving my main?

Do you have Anti-vehicle skills maxed out? It's only 1 Million for a Proto SL.

If you want to advise future corp leaders, you may want to advise them to respect different roles, and be glad there are those out there willing to train in different things than you have.

Last time I looked, Pro AR guys were getting manhandled out there by vehicles left and right, and needing other AV guys to come save them.

Basically thats the whole reason these posts keep popping up.

That was an ignorant statement to begin with. It had nothing to do with this thread and he is just trolling. I have nothing against tanks and this isn't a qq thread.

People just come into threads trolling without even being able to comprehend whats being discussed.

lolcarebears

Yes, I do have SL maxed. I adapt to pretty much any situation I need to. If I need jump in a tank/dropship for a second to support the team I do. If I hack a dropship in the middle of the map, I take it to a dropship pilot on my team.

In the long term the corp with the best killers/teamwork/adaptability will be the most dominate on dust. Not the mixed skill clans that respect different roles. What do you think everyone means when they say adapt or die...

Years of reading the EVE forums have made me quite adept at spotting bitter carebears poasting about how OP or unfair or non-sportsmanlike some aspect of a game is.

And questioning the true skills of the source of the unfair bitterness is a hallmark of such posts.


Yes, that's what we call people like you.

You are just a troll. You notice other people can discuss this topic without getting all butthurt. This has nothing to do with sportsmanship or OP and you must be pretty smart if that's what you got from this thread.

You sound like the bitter one to me.

Your logic is laughable and your trolling is a carbon copy of every other fail troll on these forums. Very original.

Oh and btw you have no clue what a carebear is. Someone rides the short bus.

In the MMORPG Eve-Online (www.eve-online.com) a Carebear is a character who stays in Concord (police) controlled space and never ventures into unsecured "0.0" space.

Unlike previous MMORPG related definitions, an Eve carebear doesn't necessarily eschew Player-vs-Player activity - a carebear may actually be a pirate or griefer who specifically stays in Concord controlled space to prey on new players (noobs).

Yes, I do agree I'm very original and even managed to turn the 'handicap' and wheelchair thing against you.

However the claim that my posts do not contain logic of sufficient caliber to debunk your claims is laughable.



... cause the one riding the short bus is the one who knows what a carebear in EVE is.



And it isn't defined by place of residency, rather it is used to refer to anyone who squeals like a pig for slaughter when taken outside of their comfort-zone. We have 0.0 carebears aplenty, you might even be one of them and not know it.

Same goes for your play style in DUST, where the 'gungame' is king and anything that threatens its purity is seen as a threat to be nerfed and ostracised. Even going as far to make lol-threads imploring leaders of coming 'clans' to shun vehicle specialised players on the assumption they don't know one end of a gun from the other.



In the meantime I'll be out there pushing my Sagaris to the limit instead of complaining about how people who don't play exactly like me are handicapped ret... ehm... differently challenged.

Stop trolling and sit down and actually read this thread.

Telling a troll to stop trolling usually doesn't work. For example, see this website:
http://www.sonichu.com/cwcki/Main_Page
Not that I'm defending Mr. Chandler, he's just a good example of how not to fight trolls.

I know, I just expect people to actually know whats being discussed before they start trolling.

Its proper troll etiquette.

Yeah just call em out about them being terrible sissy players who don't cap objectives. What corp wants scrubs like that? Rasatu's corp!

Actually rastastu you're a joke bro. You don't ditch your Sagaris to take objectives. What's that about pusskins? You turn up on the forums chatting **** like some bad boy player. I don't see anyone backing you up. Pretty clear that 15-20k health is a crutch. I use it too, but I don't NEED. It to play. That's the difference.

Its actually easier to skill into a tank than it is for an Assault fit

If i went vehicle from the start of this build i prob would have been done SP wise at maybe 15mil instead of 22-24mil SP for the current assault fit i have

TBH i expected tanks to be harder to skill into


As for tanks are crutches, tough **** ppl who arnt good at FPS have a place in DUST as a tank or dropship pilot or as AV guy atm

DUST allows different playstyles

If you want everyone on the ground MI vs MI then maybe DUST isnt for you atm because when it comes to FW or Null corps wont give a **** about dropping 50tanks on your foot and will just collect your tears while they run you over

I'm already one of the founding members of the most bitter of bittervet corps to grace DUST.


I run around in an HAV, I don't need others backing me up.

And if I were to jump out of my Sagaris I'd end up dead in 3 seconds so that's why I don't want to hack those things. Sadly I'll never be any good at that running and shooting stuff.

In a game where each death costs money. K/D matters quite a bit.

You're rich because you maintain a consistent good KDR. See the connection? :)

You're rich because you maintain a consistent good KDR. See the connection? :)

Crutches-Some people sit in vehicles because they suck at the fps part of this game. So they hide in tanks and dropships and never cap an objective. They are the people who are to scared to get out and cap a clone reserve unit if given the opportunity. These people are just as bad as the people that run and gun and never cap an objective.

I got rich running around in militia gear. See the connection?

I see te connection between you doing nothing and letting your team net you big bucks? Unfair judgement? You won't get out of your HAV, your pointless player. Don't even risk losing your Marauder. This gives me an idea for a thread.

I see te connection between you doing nothing and letting your team net you big bucks? Unfair judgement? You won't get out of your HAV, your pointless player. Don't even risk losing your Marauder. This gives me an idea for a thread.

No, simply what's more important. ISK or Kills. Or capping objectives. ISK or objectives mr doesn't get out of ya tank?

Yet don't let that diminish my point, that I've made from the start of this thread, that even if I never manage to kill anyone or hack anything outside of my tank I'd still be an asset worth having for any good corp.

And why would you be an asset? No hacks no kills and you drive a marauder? In fact, don't reply. You don't need to dig your hole any deeper.

Speaking of crutches, doesn't the OP run around in a scout suit with a Creo while hit detection is still off?

You're rich because you maintain a consistent good KDR. See the connection? :)

I got ran over yesterday by tony and imagine what happened next.....

Q drumroll....

He got out, hacked and took the objective.

Anyway Cromson Moon, I hear ya' about some people. Personally I am all about the ground and getting on my mic to help my team with map awarness, and control. Sadly most have their mics off, and usually there are too few of us on mics (most of the time.) I do not have time to spawn camp though. I'm usually running from objective to objective cursing, and yellin' for help or support. I love it when teamwork happens though. It's like petting a unicorn.

Edit:

Plus one to you, Crimson Moon.

Also for everyone else. Do not get me wrong I fully support operators, and pilots. They are and can be most beneficial to the team. I just happen to support proper operators, and pilots though whom do help the team. Not the tower jockey, or jerk in a tank whom will not get out to jack that objective (atleast attempt to.)

is the op saying a corp that has dedicated tank drivers, dropship pilots, logistics and good old grunts that know what they are doing will fail? if so

There's a bit of a connection snake. I died 17 time one game in Proto gear. 1.5mil burnt in 20 minutes. Love RE :) But yeah, you'd get through your saving if you didn't keep doing well m8.

Crutches-Some people sit in vehicles because they suck at the fps part of this game. So they hide in tanks and dropships and never cap an objective. They are the people who are to scared to get out and cap a clone reserve unit if given the opportunity. These people are just as bad as the people that run and gun and never cap an objective.

To clarify I know not all vehicular manslaughter players are guilty of this. No need to spam this thread about how you are not this person. Let your in game actions do the talking.

Wheelchairs-Sorry guys, I'm a dedicated logi player so I suck at killing and I just went 2-30. This is not a legit excuse. Just because you are in a wheelchair doesn't mean you have to suck it up. If you already suck at basketball then being in a wheelchair isn't going to change much.



Whats your point crimson?

If a corp has to many people that need crutches and wheelchairs their W/L ratio will take a hit. Once a W/L ratio and corp battles are added to the leader boards, then you will see what I mean.

I know there are variables as far as teamwork and tactics go. That still does not excuse having these people in your corp. From a business stand point of course.

Nonsense Ironblood. You can have a Sagaris or 10. If you haven't played about in them, you have to try em. Mine aren't perfect, but they're ok for free ;)
I am fascinated by the number of people who want a command suit. Remember the phrase "too many chefs spoil the broth" and you'll be fine. Basically, unles it's just blatantly OP, I'd not be going for Proto. Tech2 for sure, maybe advanced. But that's just me. ASSAULT FTW :D
I too am looking forward to the fixes.

To the original post your analogy is pretty bad.

Someone who sucks is going to suck if there in a vehicle or not.
I could say a proto fit assault guy is using that as his crutch and the advanced fit guy could be claiming he is not in proto so thats his wheelchair.

picking out tanks and logistics as your soul target is kind of sad. and now

now you will have tank drivers that can just pull off a okay k/d when they are not in the vehicle but once in there a new man and able to just lay waste to everything where you will have the opposite someone with a great gun game can suck in a tank because it requires different stratigic abilities.

To the original post your analogy is pretty bad.

Someone who sucks is going to suck if there in a vehicle or not.
I could say a proto fit assault guy is using that as his crutch and the advanced fit guy could be claiming he is not in proto so thats his wheelchair.

picking out tanks and logistics as your soul target is kind of sad. and now

now you will have tank drivers that can just pull off a okay k/d when they are not in the vehicle but once in there a new man and able to just lay waste to everything where you will have the opposite someone with a great gun game can suck in a tank because it requires different stratigic abilities.

Yes i play with logistics the most and pull off a 3.5 k/d while using the tech 2 variant. i am guessing in full proto my k/d will only increase.

Ragequit after I kill you 4x more please.

I got ran over yesterday by tony and imagine what happened next.....

Q drumroll....


He got out, hacked and took the objective.

Shocking, I know right. Someone who knows how to play this game without a vehicle.

Some of you people are just as bad as the people that start spawn camping while the letter is still red. Yeah, don't even try to cap the objective you tryhard scrub.

[quote=Degren Cthulhu]is the op saying a corp that has dedicated tank drivers, dropship pilots, logistics and good old grunts that know what they are doing will fail? if so

so am i right in thinking that you think everybody should be atleast a grunt first then be a tanker or a pilot second? in the way the US marines do it, for example that AV8 pilot is a marine first, pilot second if so you could hav said that instead of calling people ********

What the hell are you talking about? I don't use vehicles. In fact I don't have a single SP in any vehicles, sans the Vehicle operation level you get by default. I play ambush maps almost exclusively just to avoid the hassle of vehicles. The only scrub here is the guy who runs around in a a scout suit and thinks he's good enough to make a thread about his Dust philosophy.

Being good has nothing to do with dust philosophy. You sound mad. Is it because I killed you all those times. Its nothing personal.

I never said you use vehicles. I was just loling how you rage quit against me after getting wrecked over and over again. The people that talk all big on here are always the ones to leave the game after they get killed by me a few times.

I hate the scout and I wish I had skilled into assault. You can't just stand and fight people. Its a lot of running away which I hate. It doesn't suit my play style at all and I pretty much wastes millions of SP.

Trying to devalue someones post by stating what they test in a broken beta is fail. Its a beta. If you have nothing to add this thread, then please leave.

More logic, less butthurt people.

I've also wrecked you dozens of times as well. Ragequit? I got 4 more kills after you killed me and left afterwards after the dropships and vehicles showed up. But if it makes you feel better to think i left because of you, then be my guest.

Sorry, but I can't help but laugh at the BS here. You hate the scout suit yet you continued to sink millions of SP into and continue use it? You make a thread talking about vehicle crutches and logi wheelchairs while you yourself use equipment that is known to need tweaking. I'm certainly not the best player but my KD is decent. You making a thread talking about whose playstyle is more useful to the team is like me or Gaga making a thread about how balanced RE is.

Not if your rich like me

yup.

I had 20 million isk and growing with nothing to spend it on.

Pffft.

Poor people...

So you seriously don't see the irony of your own thread? I honestly didn't expect to hurt your feelings though. This thread is about as useful as one telling us Dust 514 starts with a "D". I mean, do you honestly think there's going to be an all-tank corp and they're just going to tell dedicated infantry to go pound sand?

Dust Player: "Hey bro, I'm specced in Full proto Assault, Heavy and can use all light weapons. Can I join your corp?"

Elitist Tank Pilot: "Pfffffftttt Sagaris or get the f**k out b*tch."

Who honestly believes there are going to be successful Dropship or tank-only corps?


You probably don't play Eve so I can't really fault you for not understanding how corps and alliances work. Very few, if any, successful corps specialize in only one class or role. The exception to this might be low sec pirate corps who fly mainly frigates or an industry-heavy mining corp. But even then, they know when to whip out a HIC, Tech 3 or Tier 3 BC every now and then when the situation calls for it. Bad corps get eaten by better corps. The most successful corps are going to be the ones who can field a wide variety of players. The ones who are too afraid to hop out of a tank for 10 seconds to cap an objective are less likely to last in a corp anyway, regardless of how well they can pilot said tank.



As far as RE goes, oh yeah I drop those on heavies or groups of 3 like they're candy. It's so much easier to just OHK rather than waste a clip in their head or two breach SG rounds. And thank God they're nerfing them because I was getting lazy. The difference is, I know they're OP, I don't actually try and defend them. Plus it only took like 50k sp to unlock them, not millions of SP like your Scout suit did. Cheap yes, and that's why I don't have any delusions of grandeur after popping them.

Seriously, you didn't see the irony in your post? Calling out someone in a scout suit. Yet you abuse RE? All that is quite off topic and you are just grasping at straws and crying about how I killed you with a scout suit. Trying to devalue someones posts because of what they use in a broken beta is a joke. Especially when that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Its quite pathetic.

Ragequit more. Your tears are tasty.


If a corp has to many people that need crutches they will suck it up. fact. Considering good infantry is hard to find I actually predict a lot of scrub corps that try and use vehicles as a primary tactics.

At that point they are missing the scissors for the rock paper scissors equation.

I don't need REs to get kills. If I only used RE I'd use a...wait for it...Scout suit :) SMGs and SGs are way more fun.

I don't think I've ever seen you in anything but a Scout suit so I can't say how good you may or may not be without bad hit detection as a crutch. I'm sure you're a great player, after all, no suit or bad mechanics can save a bad player. And you did bust me with that damn creo. But I don't ragequit matches where I get killed. I do leave them if it looks like my group is losing horribly and I end up getting focused because of it or you can't even spawn without a dropship spamming missiles before you even fully load in.

I don't devalue your thread because you're in a scout suit, I just pointed that out for irony and laughs. I devalue it because it hasn't brought anything new to the table that hasn't already been discussed many, many times. How many circle v killer threads are we going to make each week? On the face of it, it doesn't even make any sense. If people are terrible at doing objectives and getting kills then how many matches are they going to win? A few? Any? So tell me, why do loser corps warrant a thread debating the merits of their battle philosophy? This is just blatant, poorly veiled, epeen stroking.

What about when the chips are down and your HAV gets blown up? Now you have to jump out and use your gun to hold off that last objective for the last few minutes so your team will win. Then how long will you last? These situations will happen. You will need to be able to adapt.

If you need crutches then you will eventually hinder your team. If you don't need crutches then you will be fine.