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Nexus Dragoon 514 BetaMax. 78	Posted - 2012.08.05 10:25:00 - [1] - Quote There is no good reason for anyone to play as a drop pilot or logi. as sp is given according to kills, or am i wrong i dont play as them as its to hard to get sp. i tried but got nowhere anyone else have this problem and what did you do. Eskel Bondfree wrote: resupply with nano hives: +10 for each resupply heal with the repair tool: +15 for each heal (one heal is a fixed number of HP, repping up a heavy can get you up to 4 heals I think) drop uplinks: +15 for every spawn on them repair vehicles/installations: +25 for each repair (same principle as for healing applies; also, try this: as an attacker, grab the repair tool with increased effectiveness on installations, and start repping your missile tower at the start of a game while the enemy keeps spamming missiles at it. You can rack up several 100 points by doing this the first minutes of a match) revive your team mates (don't know the amount of points, never managed to revive someone) kill assists (obviously): +25 each hacking/hack assists (also obvious): everything between +12 and +100 driver assists: +25 for every kill someone scores who is in the same vehicle as you (doesn't matter if you're driver, gunner or just a passenger)
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.05 10:27:00 - [2] - Quote Nexus Dragoon 514 wrote: There is no good reason for anyone to play as a drop pilot or logi. as sp is given according to kills, or am i wrong i dont play as them as its to hard to get sp. i tried but got nowhere anyone else have this problem and what did you do. SP is based on war points as far as I can tell. I've had games where I have gone 3/10ish and gotten 150k SP. If you're getting war points, you're getting SP too, regardless of kills.
Nexus Dragoon 514 BetaMax. 78	Posted - 2012.08.05 10:55:00 - [3] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Nexus Dragoon 514 wrote: There is no good reason for anyone to play as a drop pilot or logi. as sp is given according to kills, or am i wrong i dont play as them as its to hard to get sp. i tried but got nowhere anyone else have this problem and what did you do. SP is based on war points as far as I can tell. I've had games where I have gone 3/10ish and gotten 150k SP. If you're getting war points, you're getting SP too, regardless of kills. i have tried getting the skills for drop, paid for nice drop ships, and helped kill a lot of players and got nothing out of it but isk.
Deskalkulos Ildigan CrimeWave Syndicate 115	Posted - 2012.08.05 11:09:00 - [4] - Quote well i do play as logi i cannot try to compete with the high class people so i do what i can best: Hide behind others and heal them.
Runofthemilljay Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 53	Posted - 2012.08.05 11:45:00 - [5] - Quote Nexus Dragoon 514 wrote: There is no good reason for anyone to play as a drop pilot or logi. as sp is given according to kills, or am i wrong i dont play as them as its to hard to get sp. i tried but got nowhere anyone else have this problem and what did you do. i am strictly non combat and make anywhere from 25000 and 100000 SP per match between uplinks, hacking anything and everything including enemy vehicles, resupply teamates, and lay traps...i discovered a long time ago that i suk at shooting in fps games so in order to stay competative i learned how 2 think outside the considered norm...
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.08.05 13:58:00 - [6] - Quote same goes for the logi LAV's. They can take alot of damage, can recharge shields (or armor). The downside is that this only applys to infantry but if you are aible to boost a guys shield he basically becomes imortal cause the shields recharge at 120HP per second and that for 1 minute! Helped a guy out with this and he was aible to kill 3 guys infront of him with militia weapons. Another thing is you can lock on multiple targets at the same time. Tried this with 2 guys but i dont know how many i actually could lock on. Maybe a full squad?
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.05 14:31:00 - [7] - Quote Do you want SP for supporting the people winning the game for you? And you want it to be equal with the guys doing the winning? Stuff that, get good. Otherwise what incentive is there to become better? And runoftemiljay wtf are you doin Playing an FPS in a "strictly noncombatant role" F.O to FarmVille. You think anyone gets good without practise? Jeez
vermacht Doe 93	Posted - 2012.08.05 14:37:00 - [8] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Do you want SP for supporting the people winning the game for you? And you want it to be equal with the guys doing the winning? Stuff that, get good. Otherwise what incentive is there to become better? And runoftemiljay wtf are you doin Playing an FPS in a "strictly noncombatant role" F.O to FarmVille. You think anyone gets good without practise? Jeez ^ obviously doesn't live long enough to run out of ammo
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.05 14:54:00 - [9] - Quote Obviously brings nanohives actually. Ones that heal people.
Elitesaint Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 7	Posted - 2012.08.05 15:00:00 - [10] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Do you want SP for supporting the people winning the game for you? And you want it to be equal with the guys doing the winning? Stuff that, get good. Otherwise what incentive is there to become better? And runoftemiljay wtf are you doin Playing an FPS in a "strictly noncombatant role" F.O to FarmVille. You think anyone gets good without practise? Jeez This is utterly and completely flawed logic. If all the best rewards of SP are gained through shooting and killing, then why have any other roles at all? Your statement of "and you want it to be equal with the guys doing the winning...." is so off base it's not even funny. The entire team wins as a team. People doing you the favor of flying you into position, or healing, or restocking ammo, or any other number of roles are just as vital to 'winning' the map as stocking up your K/D ratio. If I had my way, K/D would be utterly meaningless as far as SP goes so attitudes like the one you expressed would be non-existant.

Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.05 15:13:00 - [11] - Quote Fine. Go win without killing. Get over the fact there will be other players much better than you. There are players much better than me. I'm still taking assault an will help out however needed. Best thing about Protoassault? 2equipment slots. Seriously, stop being butt hurt, and practise. You will get better. There is a reason logistics have pretty similar health an speed to assault guys... you can keep pace, and get involved with fights. Not because you can hide like a bunch of nonces. Logistics is a combat role, with more shields and health than a scout. Off base much?
Iceyburnz 316	Posted - 2012.08.05 15:23:00 - [12] - Quote Deskalkulos Ildigan wrote: well i do play as logi i cannot try to compete with the high class people so i do what i can best: Hide behind others and heal them. Being a logistics guy is a thankless horrible job where you die a lot and there are no successes only failures.
Tak Kak 22	Posted - 2012.08.05 15:24:00 - [13] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Fine. Go win without killing. Get over the fact there will be other players much better than you. There are players much better than me. I'm still taking assault an will help out however needed. Best thing about Protoassault? 2equipment slots. Seriously, stop being butt hurt, and practise. You will get better. There is a reason logistics have pretty similar health an speed to assault guys... you can keep pace, and get involved with fights. Not because you can hide like a bunch of nonces. Logistics is a combat role, with more shields and health than a scout. Off base much? 'Logistics' kind of means, Logistics. It's an integral part of the battlefield of reviving, healing, and providing ammo that on the higher and more diverse ends can not be substituted for the Assault. Albeit many of these things are not as easy to do as say Battlefield 3 it is still incredibly hard to manage fighting while providing for the troops especially in the middle of a fire fight out in the open and on the move. Focusing strictly on the KDR does not also win the game, I could tell from the high scores compared to our team that had still won last night. People have many ways of winning, some people like to just help and be rewarded for an important sometimes tide turning task.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.05 15:33:00 - [14] - Quote The best way I can explain it is who will win. And it seems like a dumb example but. 12 Proto logistics all with 4 pieces of equipment. 12 Proto assault all with 2 pieces of equipment. You simply don't need the amount of support a Hightier logistic character can provide unless your rolling with a heavy team (9heavies & 3 Logi)
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.08.05 16:01:00 - [15] - Quote you get a penalty to sp for non kill points..
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.05 17:44:00 - [16] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Fine. Go win without killing. Get over the fact there will be other players much better than you. There are players much better than me. I'm still taking assault an will help out however needed. Best thing about Protoassault? 2equipment slots. Seriously, stop being butt hurt, and practise. You will get better. There is a reason logistics have pretty similar health an speed to assault guys... you can keep pace, and get involved with fights. Not because you can hide like a bunch of nonces. Logistics is a combat role, with more shields and health than a scout. Off base much? Pick your battles my dude.....one of the first things the logi guy said was that he realized he wasnt the best with a gun and that he prefers to be in a support role. There was no complaining there. You are the one who does not see how things mesh together here. This isnt like other shooters where it doesnt matter what "class" you are, everything is 100% combat oriented. While anyone CAN do that, the game mechanics here support the existence of a support role, even if there isnt any combat use for them. This game isnt purely FPS.
vermacht Doe 93	Posted - 2012.08.05 18:08:00 - [17] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Fine. Go win without killing. Get over the fact there will be other players much better than you. There are players much better than me. I'm still taking assault an will help out however needed. Best thing about Protoassault? 2equipment slots. Seriously, stop being butt hurt, and practise. You will get better. There is a reason logistics have pretty similar health an speed to assault guys... you can keep pace, and get involved with fights. Not because you can hide like a bunch of nonces. Logistics is a combat role, with more shields and health than a scout. Off base much? The logi isn't meant for combat. It's slower and it has less armor and shields
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.08.05 18:14:00 - [18] - Quote vermacht Doe wrote: Tony Calif wrote: Fine. Go win without killing. Get over the fact there will be other players much better than you. There are players much better than me. I'm still taking assault an will help out however needed. Best thing about Protoassault? 2equipment slots. Seriously, stop being butt hurt, and practise. You will get better. There is a reason logistics have pretty similar health an speed to assault guys... you can keep pace, and get involved with fights. Not because you can hide like a bunch of nonces. Logistics is a combat role, with more shields and health than a scout. Off base much? The logi isn't meant for combat. It's slower and it has less armor and shields thats why there are logistic LAV's. They have a good amount of HP and i think damage resistance bonus aswell. Together with a remote tool to help out.
Mmkk333 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 229	Posted - 2012.08.06 05:39:00 - [19] - Quote Iceyburnz wrote: Deskalkulos Ildigan wrote: well i do play as logi i cannot try to compete with the high class people so i do what i can best: Hide behind others and heal them. Being a logistics guy is a thankless horrible job where you die a lot and there are no successes only failures. ^^This^^ Is so true
Nexus Dragoon 514 BetaMax. 78	Posted - 2012.08.06 07:22:00 - [20] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: The best way I can explain it is who will win. And it seems like a dumb example but. 12 Proto logistics all with 4 pieces of equipment. 12 Proto assault all with 2 pieces of equipment. You simply don't need the amount of support a Hightier logistic character can provide unless your rolling with a heavy team (9heavies & 3 Logi) The point is I DONT PLAY AS LOGI. I would but its unrewarding. Its got nothing to do will skill or who's the best. when i ask for sp for drop pilots and logi i am ask for them so there are more of them. not me. so its clear you total missed the point. and i don't know where you got the idea i was talking about myself i did state i don't play logi. K/D has got to go too many players will not play any role that will not improve to there K/D. Now we have a battlefield of useless players, wont help, wont listen, all out to get a kill even if it means failing the team. Nice job! in real life there own side would shoot them.

Elitesaint Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 7	Posted - 2012.08.06 08:29:00 - [21] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: Tony Calif wrote: Fine. Go win without killing. Get over the fact there will be other players much better than you. There are players much better than me. I'm still taking assault an will help out however needed. Best thing about Protoassault? 2equipment slots. Seriously, stop being butt hurt, and practise. You will get better. There is a reason logistics have pretty similar health an speed to assault guys... you can keep pace, and get involved with fights. Not because you can hide like a bunch of nonces. Logistics is a combat role, with more shields and health than a scout. Off base much? Pick your battles my dude.....one of the first things the logi guy said was that he realized he wasnt the best with a gun and that he prefers to be in a support role. There was no complaining there. You are the one who does not see how things mesh together here. This isnt like other shooters where it doesnt matter what "class" you are, everything is 100% combat oriented. While anyone CAN do that, the game mechanics here support the existence of a support role, even if there isnt any combat use for them. This game isnt purely FPS. Furthermore, the game should not be set up in such a way to glorify and reward solo-based tactics for greedy players who are willing to say "screw my team, I'm going for more K/D". With all this emphasis on k/d, why is it any surprise that many games have nothing but spawn camping idiots racking up their kills while completely ignoring map objectives? And reinforcing this kind of behavior with more points than other roles will only serve to perpetuate the falsehood that a greater K/D equates to being a better player. That sort of thing is great if you only have Deathmatch or TDM games. But on missions where the objectives are something OTHER than killing, why should killing be more valuable to the player than actually securing said objectives? If Dust is going to have any kind of emphasis placed on teamwork and objective-based play, then rewarding glory hog tactics such as padding K/D needs to be adjusted, and support and/or logistics roles need to be placed on equal footing. No one is saying that killing enemies needs to have its value removed completely, but the real value of killing enemies lies in the fact that while they're dead they can't effect the battlefield in any meaningful way! It costs them time to respawn and move back into an effective position! Putting the emphasis of DUST on killing simply for the sake of killing shows a remarkable lack of depth in what has the potential to otherwise be an amazing game. If all I wanted was deathmatch over and over, I'd be playing Quake Live.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.08.06 08:38:00 - [22] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: Tony Calif wrote: Fine. Go win without killing. Get over the fact there will be other players much better than you. There are players much better than me. I'm still taking assault an will help out however needed. Best thing about Protoassault? 2equipment slots. Seriously, stop being butt hurt, and practise. You will get better. There is a reason logistics have pretty similar health an speed to assault guys... you can keep pace, and get involved with fights. Not because you can hide like a bunch of nonces. Logistics is a combat role, with more shields and health than a scout. Off base much? Pick your battles my dude.....one of the first things the logi guy said was that he realized he wasnt the best with a gun and that he prefers to be in a support role. There was no complaining there. You are the one who does not see how things mesh together here. This isnt like other shooters where it doesnt matter what "class" you are, everything is 100% combat oriented. While anyone CAN do that, the game mechanics here support the existence of a support role, even if there isnt any combat use for them. This game isnt purely FPS. Finally some sense in this thread.
Kleanur Guy SyNergy Gaming 154	Posted - 2012.08.06 08:58:00 - [23] - Quote Furthermore, the game should not be set up in such a way to glorify and reward solo-based tactics for greedy players who are willing to say "screw my team, I'm going for more K/D". With all this emphasis on k/d, why is it any surprise that many games have nothing but spawn camping idiots racking up their kills while completely ignoring map objectives? And reinforcing this kind of behavior with more points than other roles will only serve to perpetuate the falsehood that a greater K/D equates to being a better player. That sort of thing is great if you only have Deathmatch or TDM games. But on missions where the objectives are something OTHER than killing, why should killing be more valuable to the player than actually securing said objectives? If Dust is going to have any kind of emphasis placed on teamwork and objective-based play, then rewarding glory hog tactics such as padding K/D needs to be adjusted, and support and/or logistics roles need to be placed on equal footing. No one is saying that killing enemies needs to have its value removed completely, but the real value of killing enemies lies in the fact that while they're dead they can't effect the battlefield in any meaningful way! It costs them time to respawn and move back into an effective position! Putting the emphasis of DUST on killing simply for the sake of killing shows a remarkable lack of depth in what has the potential to otherwise be an amazing game. If all I wanted was deathmatch over and over, I'd be playing Quake Live. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Elitesaint (Screwed up my quoting >.<) It doesn't, and saying screw my team, I'm going for more KD isn't as easy and mindless as you think. People don't actually think this. They are instead just a BETTER player. The top KD players aren't going for KD. They are PTFO and are good at it. Also, the spawn camping idiots aren't nearly as dumb as the retards spawning at the spawn when there are objectives on the map that are taken. FURTHERMORE these spawn campers would be absolutely brain dead if they went around to objectives when they hold them all. When the game releases, people won't be kind in clan matches and such, the objective WILL be to spawn camp the other team when possible and not let them escape to potentially cap an objective an turn it around. After all, it is the teams fault for letting the other team spawn camp them (not hard to escape from TBH). Just to reiterate, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE, goes in to the game with the mentality that they are going for a high KDR. If you do, you are being falsely led by all the other butthurt people.
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.06 09:04:00 - [24] - Quote Iceyburnz wrote: Deskalkulos Ildigan wrote: well i do play as logi i cannot try to compete with the high class people so i do what i can best: Hide behind others and heal them. Being a logistics guy is a thankless horrible job where you die a lot and there are no successes only failures. Oh there are successes. A logi is the one that can fend off a redline. A good logi could even prevent it from happening by repairing damaged CRUs and Supply Depots. The success of a Logi player always lies in the success of the team. Even in random matches. The best logi player recognizes the need of the team and provides what is necessary. Hives, Links or may it be RE Area Denial back at a Checkpoint.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.06 10:32:00 - [25] - Quote Dragoon, you can't post a thread saying you don't use Logi because you don't get enough SP, then when I tell you it's because you aren't killing, Lurch and yourself get all "you don't get it Tony" :) Get kills, drop uplinks, repair and get hives on the ground. Better yet roll assault and do the same. You'll have more hp, and move faster. Really... I can't wait for the fools who think Logi is noncombatant. Here's some news. A logistics player IS a combat role. That's WHY you can't get the SP. Because you are DOING IT WRONG. Really, why te hell do I say this? Because you can fit more damage mods on a Logi build than any other class. Omg Logi killers? Surely not? (maybe scout has 4 slots too, don't know.) Oh yeah, you can take a gun with Logi's too. I mean come on, you can earn an infinate number of points off a nanohive. But Ofcourse I know nothing. Like if 1 person get 2 and a half clips off your hive it's 50 war points, same as a kill. 4 people actually use your uplink = more than a kill. Stop QQ at me for giving you serious advice just because you're bad. You'll get good with practise. @Dragoon 514 How much SP difference did you find between your normal gear and Logi? I find I get about 75% of the SP I would if I were Assaut. I think that's fair because I'm in militia Logi instead of Proto Assault. awaits more trolling from bad players
Elitesaint Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 7	Posted - 2012.08.06 18:42:00 - [26] - Quote Kleanur Guy wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Elitesaint (Screwed up my quoting >.<) Sorry! xD Kleanur Guy wrote: It doesn't, and saying screw my team, I'm going for more KD isn't as easy and mindless as you think. People don't actually think this. They are instead just a BETTER player. The top KD players aren't going for KD. They are PTFO and are good at it. Also, the spawn camping idiots aren't nearly as dumb as the retards spawning at the spawn when there are objectives on the map that are taken. FURTHERMORE these spawn campers would be absolutely brain dead if they went around to objectives when they hold them all. When the game releases, people won't be kind in clan matches and such, the objective WILL be to spawn camp the other team when possible and not let them escape to potentially cap an objective an turn it around. After all, it is the teams fault for letting the other team spawn camp them (not hard to escape from TBH). Just to reiterate, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE, goes in to the game with the mentality that they are going for a high KDR. If you do, you are being falsely led by all the other butthurt people. I think you are vastly overestimating the playerbase. Perhaps DUST players will be slightly more cerebral and team-oriented since it's likely that many EVE players will be in the mix, but FPS players are, by nature, glory hogs. Especially so when there are leaderboards and statistics to stroke their egos. But I agree with what you said at the end. The best defense really is a powerful offense. If you can force the enemy to react to you, and eventually pen them in, you don't have to defend the objectives, you only have to defend the respawn points. I think this aspect of the game still needs some work, simply because no one likes being farmed at their spawn. But that's beside the point. Also, when you say "better" player, I wonder what exactly you mean. Because it comes across that you believe that a 'better' player is one who is simply very very good at a single aspect of the game: killing other players. Unfortunately I think that right now killing is overemphasized in DUST. The current maps are too small and limited in scope of objectives, to where you can focus solely on making yourself a better killer and ignore most of the logistical and support roles such as transport piloting, and still get more rewards. In short, killing makes you a better player because other roles reward less and are less useful in DUST. Killing has a larger effect on the battlefield than anything else in the game! This needs some work. I can't really argue with that while DUST is in its current form, and I really hope that CCP expands the game to make other roles just as vital in the future.
Bresker Veyne Algintal Core Gallente Federation 152	Posted - 2012.08.06 18:50:00 - [27] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Do you want SP for supporting the people winning the game for you? And you want it to be equal with the guys doing the winning? Stuff that, get good. Otherwise what incentive is there to become better? And runoftemiljay wtf are you doin Playing an FPS in a "strictly noncombatant role" F.O to FarmVille. You think anyone gets good without practise? Jeez What a stupid argument. What the hell do you even mean by 'doing the winning'? Everyone has a role to play, some are damage dealers and others have support roles. Combine both and you'll get more kills and more wins. It's like saying to a medic in TF2: "Go f yourself, you suck at killing people so I don't need you!" But a medic is essential for breaking turrets and contains. If you don't have one you'll lose 90% of the time against one that has a medic behind him. Sometimes it's better to have a logi that stays back to heal and rez people than a logi who jumps in the fray and gets shot. Then the rest of his team won't get any heals and will have a bigger chance of getting owned.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.06 18:50:00 - [28] - Quote Logi is useless right now. I hope the August build fixes a few of the problems but we'll have to wait and see. The suit is a joke. It's too slow, the tank is underwhelming. I ended up using proto assault rather than proto logi for logi setups. You can carry a nano-hive and a repair tool and still have a primary and secondary weapon to kill people. The role itself is also a joke. The time you spend trying to heal someone up could be better spent killing whoever did the damage. It's easier, and more useful to your squad, to spec into damage with the ability to off-heal than it is to spec into healing with the ability to do some damage. Most players run with passive armor repair in their suits, making a dedicated logi redundant. I just carry around a nanohive or uplink on my assault suit and stick to killing instead of healing. I really wanted to play logi in Dust like I do in Eve, but I'm not sure it's going to be a necessary role in its current sate.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.08.06 19:05:00 - [29] - Quote Support SP is actually broken in how high the potential is.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.06 19:35:00 - [30] - Quote Agreed. I remember redlining the enemy after 3 minutes. Chucked down a hive, shot a few people with my rifle. Went 6/2 , but got loads of SP because I dropped 2 hives at the redline. Everyone else (8 or so people, used my nano's for about 15 minutes. Had 4 Forgeguns just spamming shots and a couole of snipers. I DON'T think the Logi suit is bad. It is simply there for teams consisting of heavies and not assaults. Like I have said, assault guys can support themselves. If some guys on teamspeak or something can get together, try 2forgegun 1HMG 1*Creodon logistic. The spray, splash and direct damage should see off almost any group. The logistic suit is special, like the command and pilot suits. It's still an effective combat suit, and I've lost a few 1v1's against Logi players. The whole point is "I can't shoot so I won't shoot." is an unacceptable attitude. Logistics is wasted unless you can roll with heavies. My point isn't stupid. The OP is unhappy at the SP for logistics. 1 bullet can give you can assist, and distract the enemy.



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