DUST Search - What about sp for the support

Noc Tempre wrote:

Abron Garr wrote:

Tony Calif wrote:

Noc has it right.
Gar, you can't provide all the logistics for 3 heavies as Assaut. The first 3 corp builds will probably be mech, assault, and heavy/Logi.
I look forward to finding out which hybrid of these will prove strongest.

No I have to choose which is more important since the proto assault has only 2 equipment slots. Usually, it's nanohive and repair tool since those are the ones most often needed. I have another suit with an uplink and a repair. The syringe is a waste with this build. Even with limited tools, the sp gain is pretty good so that's not an issue.

I'm just going to say this even though I'm going to catch hell for it. Having a dedicated logi in full tank/support is like playing with a man down. The group's damage potential is lowered and you often have to babysit the logi to keep him safe. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but that has been my experience so far. When I logi in Assault, I can take care of myself and the group and still be in the top 3 for KDR easily. Dedicated logi is a handicap with this build and it pains me to say so. I hope the new build changes things so I don't feel guilty for playing it.

Logi is the best at secondary dps, I simply think you haven't really tried the logi enough to know what it is capable of. They cannot push solo, but instead of a man down, it is more like getting an extra man, but only when there is working as a group, which is currently very hard to organize with random deploy.


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Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.06 18:50:00 - [1] - Quote Logi is useless right now. I hope the August build fixes a few of the problems but we'll have to wait and see. The suit is a joke. It's too slow, the tank is underwhelming. I ended up using proto assault rather than proto logi for logi setups. You can carry a nano-hive and a repair tool and still have a primary and secondary weapon to kill people. The role itself is also a joke. The time you spend trying to heal someone up could be better spent killing whoever did the damage. It's easier, and more useful to your squad, to spec into damage with the ability to off-heal than it is to spec into healing with the ability to do some damage. Most players run with passive armor repair in their suits, making a dedicated logi redundant. I just carry around a nanohive or uplink on my assault suit and stick to killing instead of healing. I really wanted to play logi in Dust like I do in Eve, but I'm not sure it's going to be a necessary role in its current sate.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.06 19:47:00 - [2] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Agreed. I remember redlining the enemy after 3 minutes. Chucked down a hive, shot a few people with my rifle. Went 6/2 , but got loads of SP because I dropped 2 hives at the redline. Everyone else (8 or so people, used my nano's for about 15 minutes. Had 4 Forgeguns just spamming shots and a couole of snipers. I DON'T think the Logi suit is bad. It is simply there for teams consisting of heavies and not assaults. Like I have said, assault guys can support themselves. If some guys on teamspeak or something can get together, try 2forgegun 1HMG 1*Creodon logistic. The spray, splash and direct damage should see off almost any group. The logistic suit is special, like the command and pilot suits. It's still an effective combat suit, and I've lost a few 1v1's against Logi players. The whole point is "I can't shoot so I won't shoot." is an unacceptable attitude. Logistics is wasted unless you can roll with heavies. My point isn't stupid. The OP is unhappy at the SP for logistics. 1 bullet can give you can assist, and distract the enemy. The problem is you don't really get anything in a Logi suit that you don't already have with Assault (except higher pg/cpu). Once REs get nerfed, you're going to see more people switch those out for Nanohives, uplinks and repair tools. In a group situation like you suggested, I think it would be better to just designate who is going to carry what in their equipment slot. no one really even needs to wear a logi suit. The only benefit a logi suit brings at the moment is the the increased CPU/PG. It's useful for newer players who haven't maxed out their fitting skills and want to use proto-everything. Once your fititng skills are high enough, you can pretty much shoehorn almost any fit. I can heal AND kill 10 times better in my Assault setups than I do in a dedicated logi suit. That's the problem.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.06 20:22:00 - [3] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: Personally I find the logistics role fine. If correctly fitted it becomes deadlier than the assault class. People that complain about only being able to carry 1 weapon should seriously invest in reload speed and range skills. You can fit more tanking mods and higher end damage mods but you pay for it by having less strafing speed. And I can't prove it, but I think it has a larger hitbox than Assault. It's certainly less difficult to kill even a full damage logi wearer than someone in Assault IMO. My biggest issue is the role itself. I can do everything a dedicated logi does while still having a 20/1 KDR wearing Assault, and that's with PUGs. Once grouping is implemented, all you have to do is decide who carries which tool and there really won't be a need for a logi suit or dedicated logi player. The August build might change that but I'm not holding my breath.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.06 22:01:00 - [4] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Noc has it right. Gar, you can't provide all the logistics for 3 heavies as Assaut. The first 3 corp builds will probably be mech, assault, and heavy/Logi. I look forward to finding out which hybrid of these will prove strongest. No I have to choose which is more important since the proto assault has only 2 equipment slots. Usually, it's nanohive and repair tool since those are the ones most often needed. I have another suit with an uplink and a repair. The syringe is a waste with this build. Even with limited tools, the sp gain is pretty good so that's not an issue. I'm just going to say this even though I'm going to catch hell for it. Having a dedicated logi in full tank/support is like playing with a man down. The group's damage potential is lowered and you often have to babysit the logi to keep him safe. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but that has been my experience so far. When I logi in Assault, I can take care of myself and the group and still be in the top 3 for KDR easily. Dedicated logi is a handicap with this build and it pains me to say so. I hope the new build changes things so I don't feel guilty for playing it.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.06 22:30:00 - [5] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Abron Garr wrote: Tony Calif wrote: Noc has it right. Gar, you can't provide all the logistics for 3 heavies as Assaut. The first 3 corp builds will probably be mech, assault, and heavy/Logi. I look forward to finding out which hybrid of these will prove strongest. No I have to choose which is more important since the proto assault has only 2 equipment slots. Usually, it's nanohive and repair tool since those are the ones most often needed. I have another suit with an uplink and a repair. The syringe is a waste with this build. Even with limited tools, the sp gain is pretty good so that's not an issue. I'm just going to say this even though I'm going to catch hell for it. Having a dedicated logi in full tank/support is like playing with a man down. The group's damage potential is lowered and you often have to babysit the logi to keep him safe. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but that has been my experience so far. When I logi in Assault, I can take care of myself and the group and still be in the top 3 for KDR easily. Dedicated logi is a handicap with this build and it pains me to say so. I hope the new build changes things so I don't feel guilty for playing it. Logi is the best at secondary dps, I simply think you haven't really tried the logi enough to know what it is capable of. They cannot push solo, but instead of a man down, it is more like getting an extra man, but only when there is working as a group, which is currently very hard to organize with random deploy. I agree it's difficult to judge the efficacy of logi while we can't group. I made about 6 different logi suit builds varying from advanced to proto. Each one varied between tank, damage and utility. Ideally, logi would be an extra man, but the current mechanics do not support this. Ambush maps, where you'd think a Logi would shine with Nanos and a syringe, is absolutely devastated in CQC thanks to slower strafing speed and the fact people suicide too quickly. Thankfully the latter problem is getting fixed. In skirmish maps it is a little better but logi still struggles. What I want to know is this. What can I do as a dedicated logi that I can't also do in full assault spec'd for damage with logi tools? Granted I can't carry them all at the same time. When grouping is added, people can decide which member on their team is going to carry a nanohive, who carries a syringe, who carries an uplink etc, making the need for one person to carry everything a waste.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.08.06 22:59:00 - [6] - Quote Now that I think about it, one reason Logi feels so redundant to me is the fact we have very few equipment choices. An assault wearer sacrifices nothing when he or she equips a repair tool, nanohive etc. Now that RE is getting nerfed, I think even fewer people will carry them, making repair tools or nanohives an obvious choice to replace them. In Eve, if you decide to tank your ship and fill all your mid and low slots with hardeners, boosters/repairers or even cap modules, you miss out on Webs, disruptors, SEBOs and damage modules. Perhaps if we get personal stasis webs or EWAR mods then there will actually be a thoughtful choice between healing or combat utility. But then you run into the problem of adding mmo features into an FPS game. I honestly don't know how you'd balance all that without pissing off a few people in the process.