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Elitesaint
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.08.05 15:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Do you want SP for supporting the people winning the game for you? And you want it to be equal with the guys doing the winning? Stuff that, get good. Otherwise what incentive is there to become better?
And runoftemiljay wtf are you doin Playing an FPS in a "strictly noncombatant role" F.O to FarmVille. You think anyone gets good without practise? Jeez
This is utterly and completely flawed logic. If all the best rewards of SP are gained through shooting and killing, then why have any other roles at all? Your statement of "and you want it to be equal with the guys doing the winning...." is so off base it's not even funny.
The entire team wins as a team. People doing you the favor of flying you into position, or healing, or restocking ammo, or any other number of roles are just as vital to 'winning' the map as stocking up your K/D ratio. If I had my way, K/D would be utterly meaningless as far as SP goes so attitudes like the one you expressed would be non-existant.
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Elitesaint
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 08:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:Tony Calif wrote:Fine. Go win without killing. Get over the fact there will be other players much better than you. There are players much better than me. I'm still taking assault an will help out however needed. Best thing about Protoassault? 2equipment slots.
Seriously, stop being butt hurt, and practise. You will get better. There is a reason logistics have pretty similar health an speed to assault guys... you can keep pace, and get involved with fights. Not because you can hide like a bunch of nonces. Logistics is a combat role, with more shields and health than a scout.
Off base much? Pick your battles my dude.....one of the first things the logi guy said was that he realized he wasnt the best with a gun and that he prefers to be in a support role. There was no complaining there. You are the one who does not see how things mesh together here. This isnt like other shooters where it doesnt matter what "class" you are, everything is 100% combat oriented. While anyone CAN do that, the game mechanics here support the existence of a support role, even if there isnt any combat use for them. This game isnt purely FPS.
Furthermore, the game should not be set up in such a way to glorify and reward solo-based tactics for greedy players who are willing to say "screw my team, I'm going for more K/D". With all this emphasis on k/d, why is it any surprise that many games have nothing but spawn camping idiots racking up their kills while completely ignoring map objectives? And reinforcing this kind of behavior with more points than other roles will only serve to perpetuate the falsehood that a greater K/D equates to being a better player.
That sort of thing is great if you only have Deathmatch or TDM games. But on missions where the objectives are something OTHER than killing, why should killing be more valuable to the player than actually securing said objectives? If Dust is going to have any kind of emphasis placed on teamwork and objective-based play, then rewarding glory hog tactics such as padding K/D needs to be adjusted, and support and/or logistics roles need to be placed on equal footing.
No one is saying that killing enemies needs to have its value removed completely, but the real value of killing enemies lies in the fact that while they're dead they can't effect the battlefield in any meaningful way! It costs them time to respawn and move back into an effective position!
Putting the emphasis of DUST on killing simply for the sake of killing shows a remarkable lack of depth in what has the potential to otherwise be an amazing game. If all I wanted was deathmatch over and over, I'd be playing Quake Live. |
Elitesaint
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 18:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kleanur Guy wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Elitesaint (Screwed up my quoting >.<)
Sorry! xD
Kleanur Guy wrote:
It doesn't, and saying screw my team, I'm going for more KD isn't as easy and mindless as you think. People don't actually think this. They are instead just a BETTER player. The top KD players aren't going for KD. They are PTFO and are good at it. Also, the spawn camping idiots aren't nearly as dumb as the retards spawning at the spawn when there are objectives on the map that are taken. FURTHERMORE these spawn campers would be absolutely brain dead if they went around to objectives when they hold them all. When the game releases, people won't be kind in clan matches and such, the objective WILL be to spawn camp the other team when possible and not let them escape to potentially cap an objective an turn it around. After all, it is the teams fault for letting the other team spawn camp them (not hard to escape from TBH).
Just to reiterate, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE, goes in to the game with the mentality that they are going for a high KDR. If you do, you are being falsely led by all the other butthurt people.
I think you are vastly overestimating the playerbase. Perhaps DUST players will be slightly more cerebral and team-oriented since it's likely that many EVE players will be in the mix, but FPS players are, by nature, glory hogs. Especially so when there are leaderboards and statistics to stroke their egos.
But I agree with what you said at the end. The best defense really is a powerful offense. If you can force the enemy to react to you, and eventually pen them in, you don't have to defend the objectives, you only have to defend the respawn points. I think this aspect of the game still needs some work, simply because no one likes being farmed at their spawn. But that's beside the point.
Also, when you say "better" player, I wonder what exactly you mean. Because it comes across that you believe that a 'better' player is one who is simply very very good at a single aspect of the game: killing other players. Unfortunately I think that right now killing is overemphasized in DUST. The current maps are too small and limited in scope of objectives, to where you can focus solely on making yourself a better killer and ignore most of the logistical and support roles such as transport piloting, and still get more rewards.
In short, killing makes you a better player because other roles reward less and are less useful in DUST. Killing has a larger effect on the battlefield than anything else in the game! This needs some work. I can't really argue with that while DUST is in its current form, and I really hope that CCP expands the game to make other roles just as vital in the future. |
Elitesaint
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 21:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sephoran Griffith wrote:Hey guys! Let's all get into arguments on the internet!
This is a little off-topic, but Seph, you need to understand that this is a BETA test forum. These kinds of arguments and discussions about gameplay are absolutely vital feedback for the devs. If all anyone did was just play the game and never came here to say anything, how would the devs know what to improve or fix?
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