DUST Search - Mouse and Keyboard will break the game

Sid Napier wrote:

Ayures0 wrote:

Sid Napier wrote:

[Nice points you have there, especially the part where you had no way to defend the fact that the game would be broken anyway. Also, PC's can use the Gamepad.

It might be a bit messy at first, but have faith in CCP. EVE is nearing its 10-year anniversary and (AFAIK) is the only MMO to consistently gain players every year.
And yes, you can use a controller for PC. I like to use a 360 controller for some games as they play much better that way (though sometimes this is due to a sloppy port). Shooters are not that type of game. They are best played with a keyboard & mouse, as the gods intended.

I have played shooters all my life with the Gamepad, I have no problem, if everyone else has to deal with the 'Crappy aiming' so do I, that seems fair. When a PC gamer uses a Mouse and Keyboard against the Gamepad It is like agreeing to a fist fight but the opponent secretly has a knife. What you fail to realise is that this game is not multi-platform. This game is for PS3 only, not only that, it is going to be free so there is going to be [A LOT] of casuals. You expect them to buy a Keyboard and Mouse? On a platform that almost exclusively uses the Gamepad? Fat chance, what will end up happening is the EvE players will get Mouse and Keyboard support, the game will be broken... everyone but the PC gamers will ragequit and after the game dies they will just go back to EvE.

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Entruv Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 32	Posted - 2012.07.28 21:12:00 - [91] - Quote Stabber McShank wrote: Chew B0CCA wrote: It will be left to EVE players who bought a PS3 to play this game, which will be a few thousand players. . Considering they can run this game off the exact servers being used for Eve (which is quite profitable for them), I suspect they can keep this game online so that the 20k or so Eve players can use it as another metagame for Eve. I'm sure they can run the servers for the Eve player base. However; that wasn't the intent of Dust514. It was to target a completely different player base all together, not create another game solely for market they already have. With that said I'm neither pro or anti KB+M support. As long as it is implemented correctly then it should be fine. I'm sure they have already tested this thoroughly internally, or at least I hope they have. Once it's in the beta whatever kinks there maybe hopefully can get ironed out.
Shadoe Wolf Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 80	Posted - 2012.07.28 21:21:00 - [92] - Quote So if I understand correctly, the elite control operators do not want KB/m to allow players that don't use controllers well to stay uncompetetive. This allows the good controllers fans to continue winning out over others. If adding KB/m allows those players not used to controllers to be more on a level field, why not? Does a level playing field sound unbalanced? Does KB/m allow for more accuracy? I'm sure it does. Does the ps3 have mouse emulators? Yes it does. Do you know for a fact that you have payed against players that have had such devices and known for a fact they had a distinct, no questions asked advantage? I have neverused the mouse emulator, can't think of the names at the moment, but I can't help to believe these can't be that much less accurate than a real KB/m setup. I am an EVE player. I am a ps3 player. Had it before dust, so no, did not buy it just for this game. I enjoy playing. There will always be someone that has an advantage over others in some form or another. Just wait and see if anyone really notices a difference when its implemented. I'm sure there will be complaints that those that are used to getting 30/0 on matches will drop to 20/10 and state, see, there is an advantage.
Azura dark 31	Posted - 2012.07.28 21:29:00 - [93] - Quote Edit: Basicly me and my friends did lose alott of exitement we had for the game when we found out they were going to add kb/m, had a few friends that wont play it because of this. had some that will stay and try it but basicly hate the idea, me personally, i feel ccp turned on the ps3 community by giving the pc guys that come over to our way of gaming and competing fairly. gladiator matches between m/kb and ds3 users are completely 1 sided. if you wanna make money in dust, bet on the guy using the m/kb to win. easy money.
Rorek IronBlood ZionTCD Legacy Rising 746	Posted - 2012.07.28 21:38:00 - [94] - Quote I am officially facepalming most of you as of now. Some of you should just be ashamed. I know they say ignorance is bliss, but some of you need some help. The stupidity levels within this thread are reaching new highs.
Sojuro Ryo Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 189	Posted - 2012.07.28 22:01:00 - [95] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Sojuro Ryo wrote: PS3 has full kb/m support so why wouldn't you use it to its fullest? That's like having a V8 and only allowing it to run on 6 cylinders. That's just plain stupid. I would say it's more like having an archery contest that allows sniper rifles. Sure you can still use bow and arrow if you want, but you will lose. Where does that leave the archery enthusiasts who show up at the archery tournament expecting archery? I've played a few fps games with both a gamepad and kb/m and really there is not that much of a difference. The only difference is in you. So by ur statement you must suck using the PS3 controller.
Shadoe Wolf Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 80	Posted - 2012.07.28 22:08:00 - [96] - Quote Don't get me wrong on this, but I'm not saying that KB/m should be put in. I'm getting used to the controls. If they do put it in, as they said they would, I will probably use it, as I am comfortable with it. But the idea of saying, I refuse to play a game because of certain controls is absurd. I'm sure it was shocking to hear that it was being put in. But come on. Refusing to play because of it? And the thought of waiting to put it in an expansion and then let it be tested? I've said it before, I enjoy this game. Just because its on ps3 and uses the controller does not keep me from playing it. I am adapting. But if there is something that helps me be more comfortable while playing, I will use it. Just the same way that some prefer to use the move controller, or some prefer to use controller inputs on the PC. You use what suits you. That being said, let's move on. Let this die already. Wait till its implemented. I won't comment further, but I do enjoy reading some of the insanity. Gives me a laugh in an otherwise boring day.
Blunt Smkr Doomheim 62	Posted - 2012.07.28 22:15:00 - [97] - Quote KB/M is a bad idea cause take the pistol for a good example if all u have to do is point an click that weapon is going to be so over powered for KB/M cause it is a OHK if u get a headshot an its super easy to be accurate with a mouse. but its watever it well probably get added i just wont have respec for anyone that uses KB/M an says there good i'll just laugh cause a 5yr old can point an click lol
Ayures0 259	Posted - 2012.07.28 22:16:00 - [98] - Quote http://i.imgur.com/MU0Ax.png
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.07.28 22:41:00 - [99] - Quote PS3 supports DS3 (gamepad), Move and Mouse/Keyboard. Why would anyone who is serious about aiming want the least accurate option? Because they like the gamepad and don't want to learn how to use a mouse/keyboard to aim. I played Team Fortress competitively back in the day, mouse and keyboard was the thing. Yet I'll probably stick 80% of the time with the DS3 because I focus on Vehicles and AV. You don't need super accuracy with the Swarm Launcher, and Vehicles have more analog controls via the DS3. I bought a PS3 for Dust 2 months ago. I've adapted. Perhaps you should too. Get yourself a little table, or hook the PS3 to your computer screen and experience the best to use for FPS, or get by with the DS3 if you don't care to be in the top tier.
Darkz azurr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2012.07.28 22:51:00 - [100] - Quote yes, it will hurt the ps3 community, yes it will please the pc community, will ccp do what no other game company in history has ever achieved, balance a controller and mouse in the same game ?, proberly not, but lets see what happens

Ayures0 259	Posted - 2012.07.28 22:55:00 - [101] - Quote Do you guys all complain this much when games like HAWX allow flight stick & rudder controls?
Rorek IronBlood ZionTCD Legacy Rising 746	Posted - 2012.07.28 22:59:00 - [102] - Quote Ayures0 wrote: Do you guys all complain this much when games like HAWX allow flight stick & rudder controls? The stupidity stems from both sides, and both sides only seem to encourage one another. It's a vicious cycle of ignorant pisant, asanine foolishness. I'm honestly tired of it from both sides of these barkers.
Adahn Shovak Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.07.28 23:14:00 - [103] - Quote With or without the inclusion of KB&M (Keyboard & Mouse), certain segments of the available market will face barriers to entry. PC KB&M-diehard barrier to entry: Buying a PS3 console. ($300) PS3 player barrier to entry: Buying a KB&M. ($20) It's not the players who need to adapt or die... it's Dust. And it's adapting. I really don't care what some horse & buggy anti-car luddites think because they don't want to shell out to adapt to the way FPS gaming evolved. I am amused to see them touting 'adapt or die' when they're the ones who should be acting on that mantra. Learn how to use KB&M NOW, while you're in on the ground-floor. Because PC port WILL happen - maybe not in a year, maybe not in two, but it's inevitable. And when it does, you will rage so much harder that newbie scrubs are melting your well-geared faces. "But my technologically inferior brothers in arms will rage-quit about how it's harder for us now, and CCP will HAVE to listen!" Yeah... sure. CCP always caters to players who quit their games because they're too hard. ...Heh. Adapt to the playstyle of the future.
Milk Supreme ZionTCD Legacy Rising 127	Posted - 2012.07.28 23:15:00 - [104] - Quote Totally ordered an Eagle Eye from ebay
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2012.07.28 23:16:00 - [105] - Quote Adahn Shovak wrote: With or without the inclusion of KB&M (Keyboard & Mouse), certain segments of the available market will face barriers to entry. PC KB&M-diehard barrier to entry: Buying a PS3 console. ($300) PS3 player barrier to entry: Buying a KB&M. ($20) It's not the players who need to adapt or die... it's Dust. And it's adapting. I really don't care what some horse & buggy anti-car luddites think because they don't want to shell out to adapt to the way FPS gaming evolved. I am amused to see them touting 'adapt or die' when they're the ones who should be acting on that mantra. Learn how to use KB&M NOW, while you're in on the ground-floor. Because PC port WILL happen - maybe not in a year, maybe not in two, but it's inevitable. And when it does, you will rage so much harder that newbie scrubs are melting your well-geared faces. "But my technologically inferior brothers in arms will rage-quit about how it's harder for us now, and CCP will HAVE to listen!" Yeah... sure. CCP always caters to players who quit their games because they're too hard. ...Heh. Adapt to the playstyle of the future. You've GOT to be kidding.
Darkz azurr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2012.07.28 23:23:00 - [106] - Quote if they ported it to pc then they would lose most of there ps3 players, i can guarentee that. ccp said "we made a exclusive for console so you guys can make your own stories in new eden" , then they turn on us, add m/kb to console, then port it to the pc, i think that would be one stupid descision. first to add m/kb support to a ps3 game then port it to pc. you know how angry the ps3 community would get. and if they did put it on pc the small remaining ps3 community would demand eve on console. best as is , dust = console game. eve = pc game.
Rorek IronBlood ZionTCD Legacy Rising 746	Posted - 2012.07.28 23:25:00 - [107] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Adahn Shovak wrote: With or without the inclusion of KB&M (Keyboard & Mouse), certain segments of the available market will face barriers to entry. PC KB&M-diehard barrier to entry: Buying a PS3 console. ($300) PS3 player barrier to entry: Buying a KB&M. ($20) It's not the players who need to adapt or die... it's Dust. And it's adapting. I really don't care what some horse & buggy anti-car luddites think because they don't want to shell out to adapt to the way FPS gaming evolved. I am amused to see them touting 'adapt or die' when they're the ones who should be acting on that mantra. Learn how to use KB&M NOW, while you're in on the ground-floor. Because PC port WILL happen - maybe not in a year, maybe not in two, but it's inevitable. And when it does, you will rage so much harder that newbie scrubs are melting your well-geared faces. "But my technologically inferior brothers in arms will rage-quit about how it's harder for us now, and CCP will HAVE to listen!" Yeah... sure. CCP always caters to players who quit their games because they're too hard. ...Heh. Adapt to the playstyle of the future. You've GOT to be kidding. You underestimate their stupidity.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2012.07.28 23:39:00 - [108] - Quote Darkz azurr wrote: if they ported it to pc then they would lose most of there ps3 players, i can guarentee that. ccp say we made a exclusive for console so you guys can make your own stories in new eded, then they turn on us, add m/kb to console, then port it to the pc, i think that would be one stupid descision. first to add m/kb support to a ps3 game then port it to pc. you know how angry the ps3 community would get. and if they did put it on pc they would have to put eve on console. Frankly, if they don't nerf KBM pretty heavily I don't think the PS3 community will care one way or the other. DUST will probably just be "that crap F2P game with unbalanced controls that no one but EVE players care about." I don't want that to happen, but it's obviously not up to me. There are plenty of other games to play and this one doesn't cost anything any way, so the failure of CCP to capture the console market will only be a waste of CCP time and money. The players just won't bother with it if the KBM integration is ****.
Blunt Smkr Doomheim 62	Posted - 2012.07.28 23:49:00 - [109] - Quote Adahn Shovak wrote: Learn how to use KB&M NOW i dont think anyone needs to learn how to use a KB/M cause i think most learned that in elementary school. The reason most ps3 players hate the idea cause its like easy mode an the reason pc players want it cause they suk if they dont have it. so really pc players need to adapt or die
Stabber McShank Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2012.07.28 23:56:00 - [110] - Quote Blunt Smkr wrote: Adahn Shovak wrote: Learn how to use KB&M NOW i dont think anyone needs to learn how to use a KB/M cause i think most learned that in elementary school. The reason most ps3 players hate the idea cause its like easy mode an the reason pc players want it cause they suk if they dont have it. so really pc players need to adapt or die They are adapting, by buying Eagle Eye, FragFX, or setting up GIMX.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.29 00:07:00 - [111] - Quote I say let them have the experiment, see how the K/D spread works with keyboard and mouse users and how they perform under both vehicular and infantry.
Darkz azurr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2012.07.29 00:09:00 - [112] - Quote just looking at counterstrike for ps3 as that was going to have m/kb on the ps3 some of the first posts i seen Matchmaking would've put PC players with PS3 M+KB players from what I recall. PS3 controller players would only play against other controller players on PS3 They were going to let console players play against PC players? WHY? For an obvious reason, the PC players would thrash the console players mercilessly. An incredibly dumb idea from the start, if you ask me. I can't believe they were every planning it in the first place. end quote also , looks like they removed cross platform play too, so no pc vs console either, wonder why.
Jagen Marez Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.07.29 00:14:00 - [113] - Quote Sid Napier wrote: Ayures0 wrote: Sid Napier wrote: [Nice points you have there, especially the part where you had no way to defend the fact that the game would be broken anyway. Also, PC's can use the Gamepad. It might be a bit messy at first, but have faith in CCP. EVE is nearing its 10-year anniversary and (AFAIK) is the only MMO to consistently gain players every year. And yes, you can use a controller for PC. I like to use a 360 controller for some games as they play much better that way (though sometimes this is due to a sloppy port). Shooters are not that type of game. They are best played with a keyboard & mouse, as the gods intended. I have played shooters all my life with the Gamepad, I have no problem, if everyone else has to deal with the 'Crappy aiming' so do I, that seems fair. When a PC gamer uses a Mouse and Keyboard against the Gamepad It is like agreeing to a fist fight but the opponent secretly has a knife. What you fail to realise is that this game is not multi-platform. This game is for PS3 only, not only that, it is going to be free so there is going to be [A LOT] of casuals. You expect them to buy a Keyboard and Mouse? On a platform that almost exclusively uses the Gamepad? Fat chance, what will end up happening is the EvE players will get Mouse and Keyboard support, the game will be broken... everyone but the PC gamers will ragequit and after the game dies they will just go back to EvE. Bold = le fixed. dun care about anything else really, a lot always bugs me when its not two separate words, it bugs me a lot.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.29 00:52:00 - [114] - Quote I love how everyone keeps assuming that KB+M is an advantage - whether they're planning to use it or not. We don't know that until we know how the game will implement the new control scheme. Wait for the next build before making that call. If it turns out to REALLY be fair, I'll be laughing at most people posting on this topic. If it turns out that KB+M is gimped horribly, I'll be laughing even harder.
Nashor Arkkenclaid Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.07.29 02:41:00 - [115] - Quote This whole debate has bothered me from the very beginning because I knew it was going to be a debate that would set fire to the delicate boundaries between the PC and console cultures. Two cultures that are very much on-edge to begin with, and constantly flinging mud at each other in their constant attempt to defame the other as much as possible. It's fascinating at how unique two sides of GAMING represent themselves as cultural entities. But here's our problem. These two cultures are now meeting at a digital crossroad. This crossroad is DUST 514. One universe, one war. CCP is trying to balance two distinctly incompatible cultures with each other; console users who are drawn to the game because it's a console FPS that is far more complex then the generic, modern, military arcade FPS that are out there, and PC gamers because of it's intricate connection to EVE and because the game is, once again, far more interesting and complex then a majority of the PC FPS titles that are out. Of course, one could practically expect thread upon thread in these forums to be dedicated to these constant forum battles. They're everywhere. Hell; we're in one right now, arguing in a debate over which tools should be included in this game. And suddenly, the console FPS community is in an uproar because of how it would suddenly 'unbalance' the game. PC users don't want to have to relearn how to play an FPS just for ONE GAME. Cultural war ensues. I see your point. The Keyboard and Mouse, as a control scheme, is far better for FPS then a controller, and against DS3ers, it isn't balanced. You can aim, place shots, and zero-in on targets much faster and much more accurately with a keyboard and mouse then you can when you use a gamepad. The primary disadvantage of the Keyboard and Mouse is that it does have a steeper learning curve, no aim compensation, and until you get used to the way the mouse 'snaps' to the center of the screen, it's going to feel a bit awkward. However, this sort of control imbalance is nothing new, and the other subcultures have been dealing with these control imbalances for far longer. For example, fighting games and fight-sticks. (Believe me, I can go into a list with the typical issues people would have with fight sticks, and they would all be similar to the common complaints I have read on these forums.) If this is the case, why complain about KB/M at all? It's because control schemes are something sort of religion. Controllers have been the console norm for FPS since the N64 days (which is when the first truly popular console FPS, Goldeneye, was in it's hayday.) and most players are not going to want to move to a different control scheme, no matter how much better it may be then what they are used to using. Many fighting game fans grew up playing their fighting games in arcades, and as a result many of the fighting game players have sort of 'forced' acceptance of the fight stick into the fighting game scene. For the console players, KB/M is an absolutely alien device, and they associate it with the typical PC gamer stereotyping. Additionally, console manufacturers can make a killing selling four controllers to console fans (Which retail at $50-$60, netting them $200 in sales) and licencing to third-party controller manufacturers to make a profit. KB/M is an open standard and thus practically anyone can manufacture one for a low price, and sell them cheap. It also opens the gate for high-performance equipment that exceeds stock equipment. (It's sort of like the difference between Standard, Advanced, and Prototype gear.) Everyone knows that I've been in support of KB/M. It's practically a given at this point. But why? In actuality, I feel that it's only fair for KB/Mers to learn to adapt on the PS3. CCP is trying to cater to the console gamer market, it only makes sense, for the sake of keeping the game (relatively) balanced. However, I found rather quickly that I couldn't look at this situation without factoring everything involved into an equation that should, in theory, be relatively simple. First, this is EVE. Stabber McShank has put this into retrospect perfectly. EVE Players are ruthless and cutthroat gamers that will go to the farthest extremes to win, and they have plenty of pull over CCP. Lots of console gamers are coming into DUST without understanding the nature of the EVE universe, and they are going to learn how the EVE universe treats honor, fairness, and balance the hard way. Second, they already have ways around a KB/M absence, and since this is EVE, these alternatives can and will be used more then in any other console game. Third, the way the game could potentially interact with EVE has the potential to be a metagame disaster if the playing field can't be COMPLETELY EQUAL AT THE TOP. Yes, these adapters and GIMX we keep talking about can break the alliance metagame if one alliance gets enough of them in one group. At that level, you should practically be expecting that only the most hardcore players will be fighting with and against you. (There are plenty more complications that can arise with the metagame; this is just one of them.) Let the culture wars carry on. They aren't going to be ending any time soon unless some sort of miracle happens and the two communities decide to agree on compromises and deals. (Good luck.) If this was any other game, then nobody would care. But this DUST, one of the most ambitious projects I've ever seen. I wish CCP luck; they're going to need it.
Aldz D Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2012.07.29 02:43:00 - [116] - Quote Arcushek Dion wrote: Its ps3 exclusive FOR NOW. When it gets released cross platform they'd have to add kbm anyways yes cuz pc has no mmofps or shooters coming up this year and the next, TRIBES ASCEND,BLACKLIGHT RETRIBUTION,ARMA 3,RAVAGE,MOHW,BF3/DLC'S,PLANETSIDE 2,ETC good point mister coming to pc is a better idea than starting an mmofps on a console and upgrading,building an mmo community on consoles and continuing it when the ps4 comes out........ random guy:"but dust is a different shooter than the other shooters it's gonna be a new experience for pc gamers" answer: with all shooters and mmofps coming up for pc...this game if ever ported to pc...its gonna be DCUO all over again where 70% of us "CONSOLE PEASANTS' that u guys call are the only guys supporting it more....ps3 hasn't had a marquee shooter,,,,xbox has halo,,,,,,,pc has counter strike/half life/unreal/doom....ps3 has what? resistance and killzone? both are great games but not as enticing as the pc and xbox marquee.,,,,,so as the guys say it here ADAPT OR DIE!!!!!
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.07.29 02:59:00 - [117] - Quote The main flaw in this ideology - casual gamepad players wont get raped by hardcore KBM players, they wont ever see each other. "What? How can you make that declaration?" you say? Simple - casual gamepad players are going to be the guys that hop into HI-Sec, queue up a quick ambush game, worry about their KDR for 5-10 minutes, finish, and queue up again. The casual guys aren't going to be grinding 3-5 hours a day in Null-Sec fighting Sov matches between massive corporations, they're going to log on, play a little, and log off. Maybe there will be a few KBM guys that stick to Hi-Sec, and like the quick moment to moment non-persistent matches, but they will probably be ranked significantly higher than the gamepad players and they wont get matched together terribly often. Again, the hardcore KBM players will probably be doing Sov matches in Null-Sec, fighting with player corps and doing very NPC related activity. This isn't going to be a big deal outside the beta. Sure, people will ***** and moan while our current online players float around 500-800 throughout the course of the beta, but when player counts get up into the 10k's and 100k's, it really just wont matter. Quit crying about this "gamebreaking" control scheme that you have yet to even see details for, or experience for yourself. Don't knock it before you try it. -All is fair in love and war, and this my friends, is war.
Sid Napier Bragian Order Amarr Empire 82	Posted - 2012.07.29 16:25:00 - [118] - Quote Just, don't add the KB&M, the negatives FAR outweigh the positives.
Stabber McShank Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2012.07.29 16:50:00 - [119] - Quote Sid Napier wrote: Just, don't add the KB&M, the negatives FAR outweigh the positives. Did you even read half of the posts in the thread? KB+M is already being used in DUST and every other PS3 FPS. Scream all you like, whine all you like, deny it all you like but it is a FACT. You can blow as much hot air as you like about the subject, but no matter what CCP does you will be getting shot at by someone with a KB+M so get over it.
Sid Napier Bragian Order Amarr Empire 82	Posted - 2012.07.29 17:04:00 - [120] - Quote Stabber McShank wrote: Sid Napier wrote: Just, don't add the KB&M, the negatives FAR outweigh the positives. Did you even read half of the posts in the thread? KB+M is already being used in DUST and every other PS3 FPS. Scream all you like, whine all you like, deny it all you like but it is a FACT. You can blow as much hot air as you like about the subject, but no matter what CCP does you will be getting shot at by someone with a KB+M so get over it. A large portion is against adding KB+M so no, we won't stop complaining... so yeah, **** off.



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