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![RolyatDerTeufel RolyatDerTeufel](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.07.23 13:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
Milk Supreme wrote:Well darn
Remote Explosives need their damage quadripled tbh, and sticky so you can stick them on Sagaris tanks. Blast radius reduced maybe?
Sticky, maybe.
Damage for sure if they want them to be used against any vehicles.
Also, note about spawn timer, Orin Idea of the timer going up from the start of a match or from when you suicide, is awesome it would allow more quicker spawns. Will bump this feedback thread for those that don't want to look for themselves. |
![Templar Two Templar Two](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.23 13:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Spawnign wont' be fixed if this is what they have in mind. Random spawn point in non-random areas is the same system used in countless of FPS that have spawn camping!
Also why lore is sued to excuse the lack of many FPS feature but for spawning lore is ignored completely? |
![RolyatDerTeufel RolyatDerTeufel](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.07.23 13:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:Spawnign wont' be fixed if this is what they have in mind. Random spawn point in non-random areas is the same system used in countless of FPS that have spawn camping!
Also why lore is sued to excuse the lack of many FPS feature but for spawning lore is ignored completely?
If we went by lore for spawning, wouldn't our clones need to come out of the CRU's? or something like that for objective spawns? |
![Laurent Cazaderon Laurent Cazaderon](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
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Posted - 2012.07.23 14:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
RolyatDerTeufel wrote:Templar Two wrote:Spawnign wont' be fixed if this is what they have in mind. Random spawn point in non-random areas is the same system used in countless of FPS that have spawn camping!
Also why lore is sued to excuse the lack of many FPS feature but for spawning lore is ignored completely? If we went by lore for spawning, wouldn't our clones need to come out of the CRU's? or something like that for objective spawns?
CRU should still be a lot stronger than they are now. Same goes for every structure in the game. A Turret should pretty much ALWAYS win against any kind of tank coming alone. To FORCE vehicle and infantry cooperation. At the moment, a sagaris can just rush every turret and be done with them in less than a minute => Fuked up.
Also, no spawn should come from nowhere like Royal said (and i say that since i'm in the beta....). Spawning on objective still is a MASSIVE non-sense to me. (remember B in the old biomass map ? i mean WTF, you can't even say "yeah maybe i came from above lol")
Regarding drop uplink for instance, i always assumed we would land nearby instead of popping out what seems to be a radio beacon. |
![EnIgMa99 EnIgMa99](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2012.07.23 14:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:i'm very anxious for kb/m
Im skeptical about whether it can be implemented correctly while still allowing a level playing field.
look on the bright side ill get out of my sagaris more :P |
![Templar Two Templar Two](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.23 14:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
Precisely Royal EVE don't have materialization but Dust 514 has it; why? Because that's how spawns work in 99% of FPS. Spawning in Dust 514 It's a copy & paste form other FPS...nothing more. Now, I proposed many options to improve Spawning in this thread. but of course no answer form CCP beside "we will randomize spawns".
Sadly as I said this won't work because other FPS have it and they have all spawn-camping.
Better spawning systems exist but it will take moths to change the current system...months probably we don't have! It took CCP 2 months to make random spawn work : how much time it will take to design another spawn system entirely, from scratch! |
![PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
781
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Posted - 2012.07.23 15:00:00 -
[37] - Quote
EnIgMa99 wrote:PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:i'm very anxious for kb/m
Im skeptical about whether it can be implemented correctly while still allowing a level playing field.
look on the bright side ill get out of my sagaris more :P
*SHAKES FIST FEROCIOUSLY*
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE "GET OUT OF THAT TANK ENIGMA!"
EnIgMa99 "No"
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE *banging on side of tank, "GET OUT HERE YOU COWARD"
EnIgMa99 "No"
*Boom*
EnIgMa99 (Why are projectiles not reported) PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE "...******* sagaris" |
![EnIgMa99 EnIgMa99](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
EnIgMa99
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2012.07.23 15:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:EnIgMa99 wrote:PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:i'm very anxious for kb/m
Im skeptical about whether it can be implemented correctly while still allowing a level playing field.
look on the bright side ill get out of my sagaris more :P *SHAKES FIST FEROCIOUSLY* PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE "GET OUT OF THAT TANK ENIGMA!" EnIgMa99 "No" PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE *banging on side of tank, "GET OUT HERE YOU COWARD" EnIgMa99 "No" *Boom* EnIgMa99 (Why are projectiles not reported) PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEEPEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE "...******* sagaris"
i loled hard |
![PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
781
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Posted - 2012.07.23 15:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
EnIgMa99 wrote:PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:EnIgMa99 wrote:PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:i'm very anxious for kb/m
Im skeptical about whether it can be implemented correctly while still allowing a level playing field.
look on the bright side ill get out of my sagaris more :P *SHAKES FIST FEROCIOUSLY* PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE "GET OUT OF THAT TANK ENIGMA!" EnIgMa99 "No" PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE *banging on side of tank, "GET OUT HERE YOU COWARD" EnIgMa99 "No" *Boom* EnIgMa99 (Why are projectiles not reported) PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEEPEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE "...******* sagaris" i loled hard You're welcome :D
|
![Iron Wolf Saber Iron Wolf Saber](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.07.23 15:28:00 -
[40] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:Precisely RoyalEVE don't have materialization but Dust 514 has it; why? Because that's how spawns work in 99% of FPS. Spawning in Dust 514 It's a copy & paste form other FPS...nothing more. Now, I proposed many options to improve Spawning in this thread. but of course no answer form CCP beside "we will randomize spawns". Sadly as I said this won't work because other FPS have it and they have all spawn-camping. Better spawning systems exist but it will take moths to change the current system...months probably we don't have! It took CCP 2 months to make random spawn work : how much time it will take to design another spawn system entirely, from scratch!
You don't play eve alot. One of the newer missions acutally goes over the drawbacks of tinkering with manipulating wormholes. A proven technology that the new Sansha nation has been using for thier invasions and kidnapping sprees. One group managed to lose a mini-capital ship becuase of the experiment and its radiation and gravity hazard of a 'ghost ship' have you destroy it or at least make it go away for good.
CRUs could be on the warbarge and very strong signals from capturable objectives can allow clones to have thier wormhole locked in and teleporting in near instantly. Thus any spawn from a captuable point needs to be either a drop pod or a wormhole animation. Weaker signals provided by drop uplinks take a bit more time to lock onto. |
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![Mobius Wyvern Mobius Wyvern](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.23 15:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Why does this thread have a GM tag on it? |
![PDIGGY22 PDIGGY22](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
PDIGGY22
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
189
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Posted - 2012.07.23 15:30:00 -
[42] - Quote
no comms fix, party system fixes, hit detection, auto aim removal LOL
i'm not playing next build without atleast a party system
no vehicle nerfs either LOL
yea they raised the price but they increased rewards so that offsets, lame |
![Marwan2 Marwan2](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
Marwan2
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
60
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Posted - 2012.07.23 15:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
First World Problem:
|
![KryptixX KryptixX](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_3_male_128.jpg)
KryptixX
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
321
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Posted - 2012.07.23 15:40:00 -
[44] - Quote
PDIGGY22 wrote:no comms fix, party system fixes, hit detection, auto aim removal LOL
i'm not playing next build without atleast a party system
no vehicle nerfs either LOL
yea they raised the price but they increased rewards so that offsets, lame
i bet you still play.
and i bet you still complain about it too. |
![Iron Wolf Saber Iron Wolf Saber](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.07.23 15:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
PDIGGY22 wrote:no comms fix, party system fixes, hit detection, auto aim removal LOL
i'm not playing next build without atleast a party system
no vehicle nerfs either LOL
yea they raised the price but they increased rewards so that offsets, lame
These are all hersay and he doesnt link offical twitter links, chances are some of these are not going to be featuerd.
Also minor 'bugs' are typically not discussed in length as much as a oh new feature.
Remember unoffical build notes are typically made with best available infomration, since we dont have tools like eve online players able to pull dev sever builds to do a build compare we are unable to generate anything better than hersay.
Far as I am concerned everything I asked in the second reply might make it in or not. |
![Templar Two Templar Two](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.23 15:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
You don't play eve alot. One of the newer missions acutally goes over the drawbacks of tinkering with manipulating wormholes. A proven technology that the new Sansha nation has been using for thier invasions and kidnapping sprees. One group managed to lose a mini-capital ship becuase of the experiment and its radiation and gravity hazard of a 'ghost ship' have you destroy it or at least make it go away for good.
CRUs could be on the warbarge and very strong signals from capturable objectives can allow clones to have thier wormhole locked in and teleporting in near instantly. Thus any spawn from a captuable point needs to be either a drop pod or a wormhole animation. Weaker signals provided by drop uplinks take a bit more time to lock onto.
I asked EVE players about materialization and they didn't say anything! Still the problems remain: lore explains materialization but doesn't' make spawning work better.
This spawning system is taken from other FPS and it doesn't work well. In few weeks people will hate it and many will leave DUst 514 because nobody enjoys spawn-camping, especially when vehicles can be used to scour/cap a wide are and can counter randomness.
Now, as I said, it took months to make randomization happen so who much time will it take to create a new spawning system? SOONGäó isn't the answer I assure you!
|
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Jesse Jayne
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
206
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Posted - 2012.07.23 16:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
KryptixX wrote:PDIGGY22 wrote:no comms fix, party system fixes, hit detection, auto aim removal LOL
i'm not playing next build without atleast a party system
no vehicle nerfs either LOL
yea they raised the price but they increased rewards so that offsets, lame i bet you still play. and i bet you still complain about it too. I would like to be part of this bet as well. |
![Superluminal Replicant Superluminal Replicant](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
Superluminal Replicant
40
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Posted - 2012.07.23 16:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ourors wrote:
The forge gun will gets its visual charge indicator back
Sweet, now just need its damage doubled, splash radius tripled and a 10X zoom function.
:P
I like the increase cost of vehicles to, will make blowing them up even more satisfying. |
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TotalBreakage
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
410
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Posted - 2012.07.23 17:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
Vehicles are 4x as expensive? It's sad to see CCP gave into complainers on the forums. LAV's and dropships are already expensive when fully fitted and very diffivult to try and keep for a whole game.
My dropship is 170k ISK and now it will be 680k ISK?! Thats BS. They better have made them more powerful or else CCP giving into complainers will be evident. |
![Icy Tiger Icy Tiger](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
Icy Tiger
496
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Posted - 2012.07.23 17:34:00 -
[50] - Quote
TotalBreakage wrote:Vehicles are 4x as expensive? It's sad to see CCP gave into complainers on the forums. LAV's and dropships are already expensive when fully fitted and very diffivult to try and keep for a whole game.
My dropship is 170k ISK and now it will be 680k ISK?! Thats BS. They better have made them more powerful or else CCP giving into complainers will be evident. Thats the point. You shouldnt be able to use it every match. And if you play well, you should be able to get about 400 000 isk per game, which means you get a dropship every 4 matches. This will also allow you to be forced to use some lesser dropships as well. |
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![TotalBreakage TotalBreakage](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
TotalBreakage
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
410
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Posted - 2012.07.23 17:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:TotalBreakage wrote:Vehicles are 4x as expensive? It's sad to see CCP gave into complainers on the forums. LAV's and dropships are already expensive when fully fitted and very diffivult to try and keep for a whole game.
My dropship is 170k ISK and now it will be 680k ISK?! Thats BS. They better have made them more powerful or else CCP giving into complainers will be evident. Thats the point. You shouldnt be able to use it every match. And if you play well, you should be able to get about 400 000 isk per game, which means you get a dropship every 4 matches. This will also allow you to be forced to use some lesser dropships as well. Why should you not be able to use them every match? Dropships are hard enough to pilot and with minimum rewards now they are making it more expensive? Thats stupid. |
![Milk Supreme Milk Supreme](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Milk Supreme
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
127
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Posted - 2012.07.23 17:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
You don't play eve alot. One of the newer missions acutally goes over the drawbacks of tinkering with manipulating wormholes. A proven technology that the new Sansha nation has been using for thier invasions and kidnapping sprees. One group managed to lose a mini-capital ship becuase of the experiment and its radiation and gravity hazard of a 'ghost ship' have you destroy it or at least make it go away for good.
CRUs could be on the warbarge and very strong signals from capturable objectives can allow clones to have thier wormhole locked in and teleporting in near instantly. Thus any spawn from a captuable point needs to be either a drop pod or a wormhole animation. Weaker signals provided by drop uplinks take a bit more time to lock onto.
I asked EVE players about materialization and they didn't say anything! Still the problems remain: lore explains materialization but doesn't' make spawning work better. This spawning system is taken from other FPS and it doesn't work well. In few weeks people will hate it and many will leave DUst 514 because nobody enjoys spawn-camping, especially when vehicles can be used to scour/cap a wide are and can counter randomness. Now, as I said, it took months to make randomization happen so who much time will it take to create a new spawning system? SOONGäó isn't the answer I assure you!
I don't care too much about lore, lore can be made up by devs and players alike.
Gameplay first in my opionion. What SHOULD happen is us being dropped from orbit, now THAT would be awesome
Also do we have a date on this? Early or late August? |
![PDIGGY22 PDIGGY22](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
PDIGGY22
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
189
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Posted - 2012.07.23 18:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
KryptixX wrote:PDIGGY22 wrote:no comms fix, party system fixes, hit detection, auto aim removal LOL
i'm not playing next build without atleast a party system
no vehicle nerfs either LOL
yea they raised the price but they increased rewards so that offsets, lame i bet you still play. and i bet you still complain about it too.
i'll play to see if it's better but not much, hell i only play a couple hours a week anyway
all my "complaints" are bugs or game breaking imbalance issues. sorry you werent aware |
![Iron Wolf Saber Iron Wolf Saber](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.07.23 18:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
You don't play eve alot. One of the newer missions acutally goes over the drawbacks of tinkering with manipulating wormholes. A proven technology that the new Sansha nation has been using for thier invasions and kidnapping sprees. One group managed to lose a mini-capital ship becuase of the experiment and its radiation and gravity hazard of a 'ghost ship' have you destroy it or at least make it go away for good.
CRUs could be on the warbarge and very strong signals from capturable objectives can allow clones to have thier wormhole locked in and teleporting in near instantly. Thus any spawn from a captuable point needs to be either a drop pod or a wormhole animation. Weaker signals provided by drop uplinks take a bit more time to lock onto.
I asked EVE players about materialization and they didn't say anything! Still the problems remain: lore explains materialization but doesn't' make spawning work better. This spawning system is taken from other FPS and it doesn't work well. In few weeks people will hate it and many will leave DUst 514 because nobody enjoys spawn-camping, especially when vehicles can be used to scour/cap a wide are and can counter randomness. Now, as I said, it took months to make randomization happen so who much time will it take to create a new spawning system? SOONGäó isn't the answer I assure you!
You just asked an eve online player to recall 10 years worth of lore for the possibilty of this technology exisiting.
Mind you that there is alot of BURIED lore in eve online, as in lore that if you dont ever play a certain style you will never find. For example not many players know there are 26 sectors in womrhole space and that so far its a single arm galaxy and it follows what happened to the sleepers, to which I might add nobody has gotten to sector 26 yet, its dangerous a dangerous expdition in which you need alot of supplies becuase none of those deeper sectors ever links back out into the new eden cluster thus its straining on resources and fuel to try to get to sector 26. The mission I mentioned only a small group of players would get to experince it and some dont even read the details at all, and Ill be honest this may not be the only instanace of working with porbable wormhole technology there may be many more instances of it popping up int he last few months and I have yet to see or experince myself yet, CCP has the ability to add missions 'whenever' they feel like it without a patch.
Now then for 'materialization' I am not sure what you are implying, the flesh golems are made from normally dead people's biomass since life can only begat life and thus this is where biomass is so critcally important in clone production, from the looks of it if a clone's body is well known or well documented stamping out a new clone is a short time process, and since it doesnt matter whta our ground based flesh golems look like stamping a generic super soldier is much easier than a capsuleer which is rather fond of his scar over his right eye.
All other materials are put together via insturctions you bought with nanobots and useable materials on hand in the CRU which is why it takes several seconds for you to respawn as its likely part of the forging process. These are probably the same nanites used to contruct a 747 sized starship in 15 minutes, or 18km long ones in a month. So if the nanites are that good then they should be able to handle powered armor in mere seconds. Just like nano-hives ability to read the instructions on your spare magazines and restock the missing ammo. |
![Ourors Ourors](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
Ourors
Doomheim
130
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Posted - 2012.07.23 18:23:00 -
[55] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
These are all hersay and he doesnt link offical twitter links, chances are some of these are not going to be featuerd.
Also minor 'bugs' are typically not discussed in length as much as a oh new feature.
Remember unoffical build notes are typically made with best available infomration, since we dont have tools like eve online players able to pull dev sever builds to do a build compare we are unable to generate anything better than hersay.
Far as I am concerned everything I asked in the second reply might make it in or not.
as quotes from devs on the IRC re-appear (i constantly forget to screenshot, but i'll just ask them next opportunity i get), i'll link them as sources.
i'll go dig up the sources for the logistics changes and the keyboard/mouse inclusion, those were on the forums but they're kinda buried now
edit; found all the sources for things that came from the forums |
![Iron Wolf Saber Iron Wolf Saber](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.07.23 18:38:00 -
[56] - Quote
I know just even that far out on a build can still mean the difference between getting cut then to now as complciations arise. |
![Ourors Ourors](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
Ourors
Doomheim
130
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Posted - 2012.07.23 18:40:00 -
[57] - Quote
edit; whops |
![Ourors Ourors](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
Ourors
Doomheim
130
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Posted - 2012.07.23 18:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
edit; whops again. apparently editing the OP sometimes glitches and posts an entire new post as a quote. |
![Rhadiem Rhadiem](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.07.23 19:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:EnIgMa99 wrote:PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrote:i'm very anxious for kb/m
Im skeptical about whether it can be implemented correctly while still allowing a level playing field.
look on the bright side ill get out of my sagaris more :P *SHAKES FIST FEROCIOUSLY* PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE "GET OUT OF THAT TANK ENIGMA!" EnIgMa99 "No" PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE *banging on side of tank, "GET OUT HERE YOU COWARD" EnIgMa99 "No" *Boom* EnIgMa99 (Why are projectiles not reported) PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEEPEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE "...******* sagaris"
LOL. |
![Rhadiem Rhadiem](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_4_male_128.jpg)
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.07.23 19:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
Definitely happy to see Militia vehicle swarms going away, even if it means easy AV kills are less common.
But at 3x the cost, my 250k+ dropships won't be out anytime soon.. not until I can get some reliable gunners who actually prioritize on what is important.. like the AV guy below us, rather than that sniper a 1/2 mile away. |
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