DUST Search - A Reasonable Punishment for Team Killing When CCP Turns On FF

AMARRKIS wrote:

STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:

Along with negative SP and WP for team killing I believe the perpetrator should pay the victim the equivalent cost of the dropsuit fit they lost. Now before you freak out, it should be percentage based, so if a teammate does 10% of the damage to you then 10% of the dropsuit cost you lost is transferred from their account into yours. It doesn't have to be a team kill, if an enemy kills you and a teammate puts a couple of bullets in your back they should pay the damage equivalent. For aurum dropsuit fits they would pay the isk equivalent cost. I have no game programming experience so I have no idea if something like this would be possible to keep track of or if it could be implemented but if it could I believe it would be a great idea.

Those against this would most likely be the people who are highly prone to team kill, random grenade throwers, vehicle gunners who will shoot into crowds without considering who is a friend or foe, those to have a hard time letting go of R1 with a teammate in front of them, etc.

So what do you guys think?

thats kinda stupid y because of tanks and dropships if you havent notice when some tanks and dropships help ppl secure a objective at times the missiles may end up hitting their allies because the enemy ends up being to close to you that you end up being an accidentally kill then how would they fix something like that.
why should i pay you for helping you out. Also some ppl for some reason like to move right in front of you while your shooting and if you end up killing them then what it was their fault so again y should i pay you. Lastly I've had times when allies would come around the corner and end up shooting at me because they think im the enemy they my be new ppl but it was obviously an accident. These are a couple of reasons your plan might not fit well with others

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STB-stlcarlos989 EV Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 936	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:03:00 - [1] - Quote Along with negative SP and WP for team killing I believe the perpetrator should pay the victim the equivalent cost of the dropsuit fit they lost. Now before you freak out, it should be percentage based, so if a teammate does 10% of the damage to you then 10% of the dropsuit cost you lost is transferred from their account into yours. It doesn't have to be a team kill, if an enemy kills you and a teammate puts a couple of bullets in your back they should pay the damage equivalent. For aurum dropsuit fits they would pay the isk equivalent cost. I have no game programming experience so I have no idea if something like this would be possible to keep track of or if it could be implemented but if it could I believe it would be a great idea. Those against this would most likely be the people who are highly prone to team kill, random grenade throwers, vehicle gunners who will shoot into crowds without considering who is a friend or foe, those to have a hard time letting go of R1 with a teammate in front of them, etc. So what do you guys think?
4447 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 649	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:05:00 - [2] - Quote friendly fire is friendly fire if you got a drop suit that is too much for you then don't wear it
Liant Zen Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:05:00 - [3] - Quote why would CCP ever turn on friendly fire?
Sw3RvE 25	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:07:00 - [4] - Quote well, either make it reflect back at them or let them have one but the next they get booted from the battle. or... make them pay whoever they shot the amount that their load out costs.
AMARRKIS BetaMax. 71	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:08:00 - [5] - Quote Liant Zen wrote: why would CCP ever turn on friendly fire? because they have before
Agnoeo Jedi Knights. 35	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:09:00 - [6] - Quote I say do what most games do, ricochet damage. Teaches the person not to shoot other people when they are the ones taking the damage. Might be harder to do that with people in drop ships and tanks. Then again, barraging an objective with missiles or whatever may be a part of the plan. Sucks that there was team collateral damage, but the mission is more important than the player.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:10:00 - [7] - Quote Thanks to swam launcher delay and me not noticing my teammate hacking a dropship, I've already managed to wrangle -110 points. Sorry dude.
twoccer Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 26	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:11:00 - [8] - Quote good topic tking needs sorting before it becomes a problem. i would like to see a spawn time penalty as well as a point deduction, when the tker die,s give him a minute to re spawn 2nd offence 2 mins 3rd 3 mins 4th kicked from game, tker,s will teamkill they dont care about losing points but if they cant respawn they cant tk
AMARRKIS BetaMax. 71	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:14:00 - [9] - Quote STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote: Along with negative SP and WP for team killing I believe the perpetrator should pay the victim the equivalent cost of the dropsuit fit they lost. Now before you freak out, it should be percentage based, so if a teammate does 10% of the damage to you then 10% of the dropsuit cost you lost is transferred from their account into yours. It doesn't have to be a team kill, if an enemy kills you and a teammate puts a couple of bullets in your back they should pay the damage equivalent. For aurum dropsuit fits they would pay the isk equivalent cost. I have no game programming experience so I have no idea if something like this would be possible to keep track of or if it could be implemented but if it could I believe it would be a great idea. Those against this would most likely be the people who are highly prone to team kill, random grenade throwers, vehicle gunners who will shoot into crowds without considering who is a friend or foe, those to have a hard time letting go of R1 with a teammate in front of them, etc. So what do you guys think? thats kinda stupid y because of tanks and dropships if you havent notice when some tanks and dropships help ppl secure a objective at times the missiles may end up hitting their allies because the enemy ends up being to close to you that you end up being an accidentally kill then how would they fix something like that. why should i pay you for helping you out. Also some ppl for some reason like to move right in front of you while your shooting and if you end up killing them then what it was their fault so again y should i pay you. Lastly I've had times when allies would come around the corner and end up shooting at me because they think im the enemy they my be new ppl but it was obviously an accident. These are a couple of reasons your plan might not fit well with others
Sephoran Griffith Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 96	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:15:00 - [10] - Quote STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote: Along with negative SP and WP for team killing I believe the perpetrator should pay the victim the equivalent cost of the dropsuit fit they lost. Now before you freak out, it should be percentage based, so if a teammate does 10% of the damage to you then 10% of the dropsuit cost you lost is transferred from their account into yours. It doesn't have to be a team kill, if an enemy kills you and a teammate puts a couple of bullets in your back they should pay the damage equivalent. For aurum dropsuit fits they would pay the isk equivalent cost. I have no game programming experience so I have no idea if something like this would be possible to keep track of or if it could be implemented but if it could I believe it would be a great idea. Those against this would most likely be the people who are highly prone to team kill, random grenade throwers, vehicle gunners who will shoot into crowds without considering who is a friend or foe, those to have a hard time letting go of R1 with a teammate in front of them, etc. So what do you guys think? I think betrayal is part of DUST and if someone betrays your team you should be given the option to "blacklist" them if you like after the match. (we should have this option in general for any reason we want) But during the match? No. You trust a corporate spy, sometimes you get burned.

Zev Caldari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 94	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:16:00 - [11] - Quote You need to remember that this is going to be a largely corp based game, so backstabbing via friendly fire should be a corporation handled issue. For people who play in PUGs their whole DUST life, that's just a risk you gotta take.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:18:00 - [12] - Quote I don't spam grenades or RE and I'm still against this. Honestly, I think the negative xp is enough. Losing your dropsuit and equipment because of a team kill should provide enough of an incentive to only group up with people you trust. Maybe I'm crazy, but always having to watch your back in Eve provides a lot of excitement and political drama and I think Dust should be just as risky.
STB-stlcarlos989 EV Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 936	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:20:00 - [13] - Quote AMARRKIS wrote: STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote: Along with negative SP and WP for team killing I believe the perpetrator should pay the victim the equivalent cost of the dropsuit fit they lost. Now before you freak out, it should be percentage based, so if a teammate does 10% of the damage to you then 10% of the dropsuit cost you lost is transferred from their account into yours. It doesn't have to be a team kill, if an enemy kills you and a teammate puts a couple of bullets in your back they should pay the damage equivalent. For aurum dropsuit fits they would pay the isk equivalent cost. I have no game programming experience so I have no idea if something like this would be possible to keep track of or if it could be implemented but if it could I believe it would be a great idea. Those against this would most likely be the people who are highly prone to team kill, random grenade throwers, vehicle gunners who will shoot into crowds without considering who is a friend or foe, those to have a hard time letting go of R1 with a teammate in front of them, etc. So what do you guys think? thats kinda stupid y because of tanks and dropships if you havent notice when some tanks and dropships help ppl secure a objective at times the missiles may end up hitting their allies because the enemy ends up being to close to you that you end up being an accidentally kill then how would they fix something like that. why should i pay you for helping you out. Also some ppl for some reason like to move right in front of you while your shooting and if you end up killing them then what it was their fault so again y should i pay you. Lastly I've had times when allies would come around the corner and end up shooting at me because they think im the enemy they my be new ppl but it was obviously an accident. These are a couple of reasons your plan might not fit well with others Lets see, if you shoot a vehicle that a teammate is hacking and you kill them its your fault, if you can't let go of R1 when a teammate gets in front of you its your fault, if a teammate turns a corner and shoots you its their fault. I don't see your point, all of the issues you listed can be avoided through smart play. Besides I said Percentage based if you put 1 bullet into teammate you DON'T pay the full cost.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:21:00 - [14] - Quote The game shouldn't enforce any idea of what is proper reimbursement for friendly fire besides the -50 instead of the +50 WP. Blacklisting or transferring ISK is the equivalent of the game playing itself since it is removing one of the most basic friction points in the game. Blue on blue aggression can tear apart alliances without the proper handling. No hand-holding please.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:22:00 - [15] - Quote A reasonable penalty? Easy: your mates kill you more. Just like it is in EVE. Nothing more is necessary. I'd accept a PlanetSide-like "grief points" system that ONLY applies in high-sec, however.
STB-stlcarlos989 EV Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 936	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:25:00 - [16] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: The game shouldn't enforce any idea of what is proper reimbursement for friendly fire besides the -50 instead of the +50 WP. Blacklisting or transferring ISK is the equivalent of the game playing itself since it is removing one of the most basic friction points in the game. Blue on blue aggression can tear apart alliances without the proper handling. No hand-holding please. This wouldn't stop team killing, It would reimburse players for their teammates mistakes. If someone wants to still team kill they can but they will be fined. This seems like something that could be reasonably implemented in a universe where mercenaries have clones and they have to pay for their own gear.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:26:00 - [17] - Quote It shoul give them the option to repay you. Ricochet would work great tbh. Think runnin man/battle royale style necklaces for all clones. You TK? You go pop. Simple. Or just make 5 in a game an auto kick. Tbh friendly fire isn't as important as getting the guns firing decently. TK's suck, but it sucks even more if the guys killed you with a scifi water pistol.
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:27:00 - [18] - Quote No punishment because friendly fire is off only in Null sec where there are no rules. I will be able to kill all my teammates over and over, make us loose the planet on purpose, because I was payed by the enemy to do so. It's disgusting, is miserable, it negates the entire point of having fun in VG but hey CCP says we can do it!
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:29:00 - [19] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: It shoul give them the option to repay you. Ricochet would work great tbh. Think runnin man/battle royale style necklaces for all clones. You TK? You go pop. Simple. Or just make 5 in a game an auto kick. Tbh friendly fire isn't as important as getting the guns firing decently. TK's suck, but it sucks even more if the guys killed you with a scifi water pistol. No, to each and every one of your idiotic suggestions that violate all aspects of the universe you're playing in. EDIT: Believe it or not, Templar, that like was from me.
Agnoeo Jedi Knights. 35	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:34:00 - [20] - Quote Why not give a commander the option to yank that persons clone once he gets killed or team mates kill him. Something like cutting off his up-link? So you could still have the edge of always a possible spy/sabotage like in eve, just at this point you have to make your betrayal count. Just like you would see in Eve. You get turned on, you can destroy their ship, then pod them. I think it would keep that New Eden feel we're all looking for.

Maken Tosch 263	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:35:00 - [21] - Quote In Eve, I shot and destroyed several several mining ships in high sec without provocation and without a war declaration. Even though I suffered a sec status hit, I can easily go around that. So far, CCP has not forced me to reimburse those poor miners for the loss of their vessels. I do not, in any way, feel any remorse for doing that. It's just business. http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=1373455&m=5&y=2012 In Dust, I saw people disregard several orders when I told them to stick together and focus on the objective. One was just running and gunning blindly on his own while the other was shooting swarm launcher rockets at the MCC. Then there was the tank that was shooting at the MCC when we needed him to focus fire on the enemy tanks (he ignored our comms). I sooooooooooooooooooooo want to shoot them for their insubordination. In Dust, once corporations will be implemented, spies will be a tool used by our enemies to ruin our day... just like in Eve. Even if they suffer a penalty for betraying their corp mates, they will quickly be compensated by the enemy corporation they officially serve.
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 967	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:36:00 - [22] - Quote Not reading all that. Consequences for team killing will be determined by the community. For example lets look at awoxers. Short term spies that infiltrate a corp with the intent of causing damage, traditionally by lighting a cyno and bridging in an enemy fleet. Once an awoxer is identified, their standings are reset and they are hunted like the ugly red they are. Normally most alliances or corps will maintain some memory of this event and characters involved as well. There are plenty of cases where infiltration alts have even turned once they flew with the other side for a while and liked how they played the game. Look at Haargoth for an example. : wild speculation : Team killing in dust 514 could unfold a similar scenario, perhaps even while the match is still underway. The commander / FC could have access to reset standing of the player right there in the field. Flip a switch and he changes from blue to red. Perhaps even cutting him off from additional clones as he wouldn't be a member of either team at that point.
Adun Red Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 57	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:37:00 - [23] - Quote The universe is a cruel and unforgiving place. I would be very surprised if they gave into any of your requests.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:38:00 - [24] - Quote Geirskoegul wrote: Tony Calif wrote: It shoul give them the option to repay you. Ricochet would work great tbh. Think runnin man/battle royale style necklaces for all clones. You TK? You go pop. Simple. Or just make 5 in a game an auto kick. Tbh friendly fire isn't as important as getting the guns firing decently. TK's suck, but it sucks even more if the guys killed you with a scifi water pistol. No, to each and every one of your idiotic suggestions that violate all aspects of the universe you're playing in. EDIT: Believe it or not, Templar, that like was from me. Did I offend you? Or do you just want to team kill? How would any of that a.) be idiotic b.) go against everything in New Eden? And people wonder where the phrase EvEtard comes from....tsk tsk
jenza aranda BetaMax. 1005	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:39:00 - [25] - Quote first of, OP's suggestion is stupid because new eden wouldn't be what it is today without the backstabbing Liant Zen wrote: why would CCP ever turn on friendly fire? because friendly fire will be on in null sec. my point is yes, maybe in high sec friendly fire should be impossible, but as for null sec, i foresee a future where i can get one of my spies to infiltrate an enemy corp, then in a decisive battle go up with a full team in a dropship, and start cooking an AV granade killing everyone on board. subversive play is a valid tactic.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:39:00 - [26] - Quote im all for the back stabbing and risk of the world of dust. how ever people have to consider this is completly f2p. what that means is we will be flooded with tons of idoits who will download the game with the sole purpose of being a complet c*. i dont mind being tk if its accidental, well to an extent that is, i dont mind being tk by someone out to stab our team in the back for the opposing corp. how ever i do object to little gob s*es. so a punishment is needed that will stop those players for ruining dust, but not one that will stop people being able to back stab etc. i vote for ISK and max tk limit. this will at least compensate players who have the little sods on there team doing nothing but out to ruin peoples days. but means for mercs to go rogue will cost enemy corps that bit more, as they can bank roll the isk the merc looses. also with a max tk limit means they will need to play it alot more tacticfully. put it this way a war isnt won with a battle, so for a rogue merc they want to remain as hidden as possible to loose as many battles as possible. so they shouldnt be just running around tk everything in site anyway. how ever the max tk will help hinder the idoits who want to ruin things.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:41:00 - [27] - Quote In EvE, one of the trailers was about infiltrating a player run corp(clan/guild) to mess with it. So, somebody being on your team calling in a Sagaris and starts blowing up the other vehicles on his/her team will just be part of game. Since, EvE and Dust corps will be integrated, this element of EvE will bleed over. Watch who you let in your corp, demand list of over chars(screen shot of selection screen helps). Be careful who out give access to corporate wallets, people will skim of the top. One of the tips for new EvE players was don't join a fleet with people you don't know, the police retaliate for attacks in hisec on the innocent, friendly fire is not a crime. Friendly fire would be frowned on by the leadership handing out the isk rewards at the end of the mission, I think the sp are just experience gained so the command would not be able to dock them. Once the game has corp battles, the corp should have options on how much they will penalize friendly fire. Splash damage, and swarms fired before a vehicle was hacked are to hard to prevent, there may have been no friendlies there when the grenade/missile/rocket was launched and the person running into the blast my not know its inbound. So, there is no fault.
STB-stlcarlos989 EV Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 936	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:41:00 - [28] - Quote You guys are comparing this to EVE but this not EVE, yes it takes place in the EVE universe but there are key differences. Team killing mechanics for an FPS are very different then those of a point and click space ship battle. People will still be able to back stab if they want, also there are different security levels so this could only implemented in high sec or whatever. Also with the arena battles is could be an option that is turned on or off. EVE players need to get out of this mentality that this has to be EXACTLY like EVE. An FPS is vastly different then that spaceship game you play. They are in the same universe so there will be similarities but with the two genres there will be key differences.
Maken Tosch 263	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:45:00 - [29] - Quote Vetis Cato wrote: im all for the back stabbing and risk of the world of dust. how ever people have to consider this is completly f2p. what that means is we will be flooded with tons of idoits who will download the game with the sole purpose of being a complet c**. i dont mind being tk if its accidental, well to an extent that is, i dont mind being tk by someone out to stab our team in the back for the opposing corp. Considering that DUST, just like Eve Online, requires teamwork and actual thinking I can see a great many of those "tons of idiots" simply quit once they see that they have to abandon their gasp* lone wolf ways to progress. This would be a good thing.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.07.17 17:47:00 - [30] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Geirskoegul wrote: Tony Calif wrote: It shoul give them the option to repay you. Ricochet would work great tbh. Think runnin man/battle royale style necklaces for all clones. You TK? You go pop. Simple. Or just make 5 in a game an auto kick. Tbh friendly fire isn't as important as getting the guns firing decently. TK's suck, but it sucks even more if the guys killed you with a scifi water pistol. No, to each and every one of your idiotic suggestions that violate all aspects of the universe you're playing in. EDIT: Believe it or not, Templar, that like was from me. Did I offend you? Or do you just want to team kill? How would any of that a.) be idiotic b.) go against everything in New Eden? And people wonder where the phrase EvEtard comes from....tsk tsk No, from what I've seen, you generally make relatively useful posts. This case, however, is completely idiotic. Forcing compensation? Unacceptable. Penalty for not compensating is instant death? Also unacceptable. Nothing you suggest is reasonable, fits into the EVE universe, or is useful, except for creating a kid-friendly sandbox (in the "nothing matters and all is safe" sense, not the open world sense). Sabotage, betrayal, etc., are integral components of EVE. CONCORDs authority, as it stands right now in lore, only extends to capsuleers, they can't do anything on the ground (even in Templar One, their actions on the ground were IN VIOLATION of their own directives). PlanetSide style grief points in highsec, and ONLY highsec, could potentially be reasonable as an out-of-character mitigation tool in kiddie space, but anything more, or implemented anywhere else, simply has no place in ANY serious game, let alone EVE.



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