|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Maken Tosch
263
   |
Posted - 2012.07.17 17:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
In Eve, I shot and destroyed several several mining ships in high sec without provocation and without a war declaration. Even though I suffered a sec status hit, I can easily go around that. So far, CCP has not forced me to reimburse those poor miners for the loss of their vessels. I do not, in any way, feel any remorse for doing that. It's just business.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=1373455&m=5&y=2012
In Dust, I saw people disregard several orders when I told them to stick together and focus on the objective. One was just running and gunning blindly on his own while the other was shooting swarm launcher rockets at the MCC. Then there was the tank that was shooting at the MCC when we needed him to focus fire on the enemy tanks (he ignored our comms). I sooooooooooooooooooooo want to shoot them for their insubordination.
In Dust, once corporations will be implemented, spies will be a tool used by our enemies to ruin our day... just like in Eve. Even if they suffer a penalty for betraying their corp mates, they will quickly be compensated by the enemy corporation they officially serve. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 17:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vetis Cato wrote:im all for the back stabbing and risk of the world of dust.
how ever people have to consider this is completly f2p. what that means is we will be flooded with tons of idoits who will download the game with the sole purpose of being a complet c***. i dont mind being tk if its accidental, well to an extent that is, i dont mind being tk by someone out to stab our team in the back for the opposing corp.
Considering that DUST, just like Eve Online, requires teamwork and actual thinking I can see a great many of those "tons of idiots" simply quit once they see that they have to abandon their *gasp* lone wolf ways to progress. This would be a good thing. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 17:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:You guys are comparing this to EVE but this not EVE, yes it takes place in the EVE universe but there are key differences. Team killing mechanics for an FPS are very different then those of a point and click space ship battle. People will still be able to back stab if they want, also there are different security levels so this could only implemented in high sec or whatever. Also with the arena battles is could be an option that is turned on or off. EVE players need to get out of this mentality that this has to be EXACTLY like EVE. An FPS is vastly different then that spaceship game you play. They are in the same universe so there will be similarities but with the two genres there will be key differences.
That still doesn't excuse hand holding. Besides, Eve players will figure out how to game the penalty system in DUST to their advantage. If I can figure out how to legally circumvent the penalty system in Eve, I will surely figure out how to legally circumvent the penalty system in Dust. Happy hunting. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 18:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:Buzzwords wrote:it's a tough one...
teamkilling cannot go completely unpunished. it would be ridiculous. what would stop a pissed off CoD fanboy from joining and murdering unsuspecting teammates just to waste their isk? 1 ******* could render entire matches unplayable.
but i don't think carlos' plan would work. what if it's a newbie alt with no isk? or what happens if you defend yourself? do you suddenly owe HIM something?
i kinda think friendly fire should just stay off. if you wanna backstab you can backstab by intentionally shooting over the "enemys" heads. or telling them where your "teammates" are in match, or emptying out the corp coffers out of it.
remember, eve HAS no matchmaking. anybody you team up with you DECIDED to team up with. so a teamkill in eve is a betrayal of a built up trust. a teamkill in dust could very well just be some random ******* the game TOLD me was my teammate for the next 15 minutes, greifing everybody he meets. Properly screen your recruits and you don't have to worry about the bitter CoD children. Problem solved. CCP has already confirmed that highsec will have matchmaking, and a PlanetSide grief point system would be workable. Lowsec and highsec? WTF are you doing there with pugs? You CHOSE to go there with pugs, you reap what you sow. In nullsec I shouldn't even need to explain, what are you doing there with pugs in the first place? so basically what you're saying is i can't play any game mode ever unless i personally know my entire team, and we all join together? you realize that is idiotic right?
That is not idiotic. That is strategic thinking. If I go into an outlaw system to try to take out an enemy, I need to be certain that my teammates are trust worthy. Going in with a bunch of randoms is like trying to walk through the "hood" with a bunch of strangers (you're asking for trouble). |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 18:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:but not all game modes will be outlaw systems. and you only need 1 griefer to ruin a match.
what people are suggesting will make the ENTIRE GAME unplayable unless you have an ENTIRE TEAM worth of friends online. even if me and my gang outnumber the greifers 10:1 in a given match, we're now stuck playing against THEM instead of playing against the other team.
Who said anything about the entire game? In Eve, there are starters systems that allow new players to get to know the game without being scammed or aggressed by others. But these systems are few in numbers and are so UNprofitable that these new players have no choice but to move out and learn to survive on their own (which is what CCP intended).
In Eve, there use to be a powerful alliance known as Band of Brothers that controlled and cornered nearly the entire market throughout the game. This alliance took over a dozen months to form and organize and dominate much of the outlaw systems, which in turn affected the high-sec systems through market economics. But a single disgruntled player who happened to be in a director position with access to the alliance war chest and other critical roles decided to betray his alliance by simply being late on the territorial payments to Concord (in-game) while doing it all on behalf of the now-dominant Goonswarm Federation. He brought down an entire alliance to its knees without ever firing a single shot.
Many players throughout New Eden wanted CCP to undo the damage that ruined about years worth of work and that the director who betrayed Band of Brothers should be punished. CCP said "sorry, no can do as no rules were broken".
Now we have Goonswarm at the helm and they intend to bring down the New Eden economy to its knees. In response, CCP said "destroy the economy? F***ing brilliant!!!"
http://www.vg247.com/2012/04/27/ccp-plans-to-sit-back-an-watch-eve-players-wage-war-while-economy-takes-possible-hit/
Since CCP is creating DUST with while they exhibit this kind of mentality, you can expect mayhem to come. Have fun. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 18:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:i think you guys are looking at this the wrong way. a team kill in dust is NOT analogous to a hi-sec kill in eve.
in eve, even in hi-sec, i'm not teamed up with every other player. i have no reason to trust them, and we have made no common cause together. me and that other random whatever ship are not forced to work together to defeat some common enemy just by virtue of being in hi-sec at the same time...
yet in dust we WILL be. even in hi-sec matches it will be "us" against "them", i don't get veto power over who the "us" is. my lot is AUTOMATICALLY tied to a complete stranger.
also, i looked up grief points. that might have worked if i didn't have to pay for my ****.. but i do, so ANY intentional team killing by FORCED teammates is too much...
You are forgetting that corps will form and you will be given the option to join a player-run, well-managed corp on day one of your character's creation. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 18:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Buzzwords wrote:i think you guys are looking at this the wrong way. a team kill in dust is NOT analogous to a hi-sec kill in eve.
in eve, even in hi-sec, i'm not teamed up with every other player. i have no reason to trust them, and we have made no common cause together. me and that other random whatever ship are not forced to work together to defeat some common enemy just by virtue of being in hi-sec at the same time...
yet in dust we WILL be. even in hi-sec matches it will be "us" against "them", i don't get veto power over who the "us" is. my lot is AUTOMATICALLY tied to a complete stranger.
also, i looked up grief points. that might have worked if i didn't have to pay for my ****.. but i do, so ANY intentional team killing by FORCED teammates is too much... You are forgetting that corps will form and you will be given the option to join a player-run, well-managed corp on day one of your character's creation. but now we're right back to my other point, am i not going to be able to play ANYTHING unless i bring my ENTIRE team along with me?
Let's put it this way.
You can still play any game mode with a bunch of randoms if you like. But it will be up to you to decide to take that risk. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 03:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Geirskoegul wrote: An example directly from EVE would be the bounty system on players. I can put a bounty on someone, and I may as well just have clicked "give money" rather than adding the bounty
For those of you who don't understand the bounty system in Eve, let me help elaborate.
1. Someone wronged you.
2. You go to the nearest station and pay (for example) 100million ISK to the bounty office so that the aggressor will have a 100million ISK bounty on his head.
3. Some other random player comes along and sees that bounty on the aggressor and manages to kill his pod.
4. Random player reaps the reward.
The problem with the system is that the aggressor may have an alt on a different account and then uses that alt to kill his own character in the game and thus collects the bounty through his own alt. The bounty system doesn't tell apart who is an alt and who is a main. This is what Geir was talking about.
===Key Point===
Please keep in mind that players will find a way to legally circumvent the penalty system. Eve Online players are notorious for doing that. One prime example are the high-security suicide gankers who figured out how to sneak their characters with terrible standing with the empires and police into the high-sec systems and kill miners with them. I would know as I am one of them.
If a player can find a legal way to get around the penalty system in Eve, then there is no doubt that DUST's penalty system regarding team killing will be circumvented legally. You can ask CCP about it. They were the ones that allowed it. Hell, they made it that way.
As I have mentioned before on another post, I killed several miners in high-sec space without provocation and I have no remorse about it. I suffered a security status hit and lose my ship in the process with no chance of an insurance payout, but so what? The loss was minimal and I have an alt that earns lots of ISK to cover my loses and I have another alt that carries my ganker alt's ships for it.
Come to think of it, wouldn't your opponent take advantage of the team-kill penalty system by simply running around within your group causing you to accidentally shoot each other as your team tries to kill the enemy that waltzed right in? I can imagine the griefers using this to their advantage.
1. Scout runs into enemy group in circles.
2. Group shoots itself.
3. ...
4. Profit from the tears. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 05:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
KingBlade82 wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Liant Zen wrote:why would CCP ever turn on friendly fire? Because having it off is terrible and dumb. It encourages such things as tossing grenades into teamates in a fight, because it will only kill the enemies, allows you to fire your HMG recklessly with no chance of repercussions, all kinds of illogical and idiotic behavior. How many friendly fire fps games have u played? ik it seems more realistic but most people who enjoy FF think its hilarious to team kill all day and they laugh and giggle when if they did it realistically in life it would be treason and im pretty sure execution in the USA it would have to have strict guidelines and managed properly or it will not be fun but if they add the spy aspect to it then all is fair :P but the rules will have to be made and we should all have the option to not include said person in our reindeer games lol
High-sec corps will not tolerate that. Which is why most high-sec corps will have a vetting process to weed out any applicant who could be a potential insubordinate. After all, you and I will be able to join player-run corps on day one when it happens. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 05:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Arcushek Dion wrote:In null sec corps should handle friendly fire incidents. In hi/low sec they could implement some sort of standings like in eve where if you repeatedly teamkill youre security status goes down. this would give your teammates a headsup at least that you have a history of teamkilling. Also putting in a system that would allow your teammates to forgive the teamkill if it is accidental would be good. so unforgiven teamkill -> effects sec status, forgiven teamkill -> no sec status penalty. Any merc who gets to low of a sec status is no longer allowed to participate in hi sec matches at all, but can participate in lowsec
I doubt CCP would put that in. They would more than likely let the high-sec "crime watch" system handle that instead of the players. In Eve Online, there are griefers who join Incursion fleets with a bunch of randoms with the intent of actually destroying their own friends because... guess what!
They're Sansha's Nation sympathizers! (role-playing)
What did CCP do? Nothing. |
|
|
|
|
| |
|