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Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 142	Posted - 2016.02.02 09:21:00 - [1] - Quote And have any valid points about ADS balancing please feel free to leave them here. I don't have time for "my ADS hits the MCC and blows up, thats not fair" or anything of that nature. But if you have a valid point I will do my best to work it into my presentation. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
Apocalyptic Destroyerr Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2016.02.02 09:44:00 - [2] - Quote Tier it off. One Extra High Slot for Incy and One Extra Low for Python. Done. End of discussion. Use it ----> Abuse It ----> Nerf !!! a¦á_a¦á Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 142	Posted - 2016.02.02 09:46:00 - [3] - Quote Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote: Tier it off. One Extra High Slot for Incy and One Extra Low for Python. Done. End of discussion. And what is your justification for this? And why increase slots and not increase CPU and PG? "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
Apocalyptic Destroyerr Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2016.02.02 10:04:00 - [4] - Quote Git Gud Bruh wrote: Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote: Tier it off. One Extra High Slot for Incy and One Extra Low for Python. Done. End of discussion. And what is your justification for this? And why increase slots and not increase CPU and PG? Done. Fixed it, thank you. End of discussion. Believe me. Use it ----> Abuse It ----> Nerf !!! a¦á_a¦á Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 142	Posted - 2016.02.02 10:08:00 - [5] - Quote Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote: Git Gud Bruh wrote: Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote: Tier it off. One Extra High Slot for Incy and One Extra Low for Python. Done. End of discussion. And what is your justification for this? And why increase slots and not increase CPU and PG? Done. Fixed it, thank you. End of discussion. Believe me. I don't and won't. If you can't provide me with any legitimate argument for your balancing suggestion then I'm not even considering it. If you can tell me WHY the ADS needs an extra slot over a CPU/PG buff then I'll listen and hopefully CCP will too. I'm pushing for an ADS overhaul, not a "just do it, it'll fix it" hotfix. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 1	Posted - 2016.02.02 11:16:00 - [6] - Quote Keep the present balance between swarms and ADS (maybe even increase the ADS weakness) then give a big increase to front turret spread/splash damage and allow the ADS to be a strafing vehicle rather than a hover attack vehicle. Boom! Fixed. CCP logic GÇô We fix what doesn't need breaking.
Dead Cavino Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 187	Posted - 2016.02.02 12:06:00 - [7] - Quote I wanna be able to fit all turret slots effectively. Hell, I'd be satisfied with 3 ADV turrets I don't like two-legged things.
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 5	Posted - 2016.02.02 12:27:00 - [8] - Quote I just want logi DS back, with working mcru and great damage resistances. Regressed to blueberry level =ƒÿ» #PortPatience514
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 742	Posted - 2016.02.02 12:53:00 - [9] - Quote Presentation? ... Can we work together?? You want anything to test, I gotchu. Anyway, python needs both a small sHP buff and increased PG. It isn't right that any python fit w/o a PG upgrade is pretty much gimped. The small sHP buff.... Probably 10-15% (150-200 sHP).. Sure it's not much but base eHP should at least have a little survivability on it's own. The reason why I say no to tiered dropships is the incubus will become the flying madrugar. We don't need flying madrugars. Imagine fits that even look at AV and laugh... See an enemy ADS and laugh. Knowing how volatile the community is towards ADS (according to history), that's begging for another nerf to ADS. I always want about 5-10% (150-250) more aHP on the incubus because base aHP vanishes with proto swarms (they hit like wyr breach....) but that's just my selfish desire to survive a wyr breach Potential Pilot Proposal? Yes!
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 426	Posted - 2016.02.02 12:59:00 - [10] - Quote Currently I see the balance issue isn't really between av vs ads. More so balance between the variety of fittings. Most notably I'd like to see shield booster change from one large pulse to multiple small pulses as it's easy to interrupt the single pulse rendering it useless in air to air and against certain av and tanks/blaster turrets. As an ads pilot before all else I enjoy the current competitive nature between av and ads. I find I have fits that excel in the hottest of environments both in pubs and pc. Currently we have the range to engage swarms safely and the mobility to evade swarms as long as we don't get too close even when suprised. Anything short of 2-3 officer swarms working together is not enough to take out a skilled pilot. Add in a good forge and now you have a problem but that's just good teamwork. If i get taken out it is most often my own mistake. Demandred Moores wrote: ADD gah wrote: Richard Gamerich-R wrote: lol how do you fit your ADS seriously? My usual fit it 1 com light shield regen, Complex shield hardener, Complex light shield ext, XT missiles, and Enhanced missile amo. Drop missle extneder lol use pg upgrade then just use enhanced hvy shields pro burner and enhanced hardner. Learn to rotate your mods and engage accordingly that fit is complete garbage. No disrespect intended. You can also use a burner complex hvy extrender and basic hardner increasing survivability but decreasing engagement and reengagement time. You can replace your hardner with a booster if you like but it really just isn't as good. There are a couple other good fits and I can even give you ones with multi turrets and the same survivability. Engage with hardner on after first swarm hitn your burner and leave while identifying where the threat is. Turn hardner off before you are completely away and the burner when you're safe. You can now reengage knowing where the threat is and hit him from where he can't lock then land and place a link securing the overwatch. This is the basics. There is no way they can take you n out short of three perfectly timed calmandos using beacons and at that point you've pulled enough away from the real fight to still be doing your job. Call for your teammates at that point to wipe them and retake overwatch. Team play is op you know? Till then you can help on another objective. There is no large balance issue. As I said before ALL I do I pc is ads. This is why people think ads is weak and others strong. There just aren't enough experienced pilots anymore in the game. People find the very rare good ones and can't ever kill them because we know our advantage and disadvantage. The ones that aren't as experienced lose tons of isk and think av needs nerfed. Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family

Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 426	Posted - 2016.02.02 13:06:00 - [11] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Presentation? ... Can we work together?? You want anything to test, I gotchu. Anyway, python needs both a small sHP buff and increased PG. It isn't right that any python fit w/o a PG upgrade is pretty much gimped. The small sHP buff.... Probably 10-15% (150-200 sHP).. Sure it's not much but base eHP should at least have a little survivability on it's own. The reason why I say no to tiered dropships is the incubus will become the flying madrugar. We don't need flying madrugars. Imagine fits that even look at AV and laugh... See an enemy ADS and laugh. Knowing how volatile the community is towards ADS (according to history), that's begging for another nerf to ADS. I always want about 5-10% (150-250) more aHP on the incubus because base aHP vanishes with proto swarms (they hit like wyr breach....) but that's just my selfish desire to survive a wyr breach Reasonable. Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 426	Posted - 2016.02.02 13:07:00 - [12] - Quote Dead Cavino wrote: I wanna be able to fit all turret slots effectively. Hell, I'd be satisfied with 3 ADV turrets I can give you a fit for this. Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 4	Posted - 2016.02.02 13:11:00 - [13] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Presentation? ... Can we work together?? You want anything to test, I gotchu. Anyway, python needs both a small sHP buff and increased PG. It isn't right that any python fit w/o a PG upgrade is pretty much gimped. The small sHP buff.... Probably 10-15% (150-200 sHP).. Sure it's not much but base eHP should at least have a little survivability on it's own. The reason why I say no to tiered dropships is the incubus will become the flying madrugar. We don't need flying madrugars. Imagine fits that even look at AV and laugh... See an enemy ADS and laugh. Knowing how volatile the community is towards ADS (according to history), that's begging for another nerf to ADS. I always want about 5-10% (150-250) more aHP on the incubus because base aHP vanishes with proto swarms (they hit like wyr breach....) but that's just my selfish desire to survive a wyr breach If I can get a word in, I'd like to help too. But I'm retired, so in game isn't going to be a thing for me. I'm not entirely sure if Python should get a buff on HP, because if the PG buff is high enough, I can fit a complex heavy extender with hardeners and a light shield booster, getting well over 3000 overall HP, not including hardeners. I completely agree with PG buff however. And on the tiered ships, it will entirely depend on where you put the extra slot. I personally think the python should get an extra low slow, and the inky get a high slot. One issue with that is that there aren't many low mods a python can use effectively (PG upgrade comes to mind, that's about it), and vice versa with inky (give me modules, or a bran muffin!). I'd also like to see blasters get some loving, seeing them get back to how they were in beta. Also an AA variant, increased range, damage, and ability to break shields. I'm quite positive I'm missing something, but oh well. 99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg Bittervet ADS pilot, redheads are hot.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 743	Posted - 2016.02.02 13:19:00 - [14] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Presentation? ... Can we work together?? You want anything to test, I gotchu. Anyway, python needs both a small sHP buff and increased PG. It isn't right that any python fit w/o a PG upgrade is pretty much gimped. The small sHP buff.... Probably 10-15% (150-200 sHP).. Sure it's not much but base eHP should at least have a little survivability on it's own. The reason why I say no to tiered dropships is the incubus will become the flying madrugar. We don't need flying madrugars. Imagine fits that even look at AV and laugh... See an enemy ADS and laugh. Knowing how volatile the community is towards ADS (according to history), that's begging for another nerf to ADS. I always want about 5-10% (150-250) more aHP on the incubus because base aHP vanishes with proto swarms (they hit like wyr breach....) but that's just my selfish desire to survive a wyr breach If I can get a word in, I'd like to help too. But I'm retired, so in game isn't going to be a thing for me. I'm not entirely sure if Python should get a buff on HP, because if the PG buff is high enough, I can fit a complex heavy extender with hardeners and a light shield booster, getting well over 3000 overall HP, not including hardeners. I completely agree with PG buff however. And on the tiered ships, it will entirely depend on where you put the extra slot. I personally think the python should get an extra low slow, and the inky get a high slot. One issue with that is that there aren't many low mods a python can use effectively (PG upgrade comes to mind, that's about it), and vice versa with inky (give me modules, or a bran muffin!). I'd also like to see blasters get some loving, seeing them get back to how they were in beta. Also an AA variant, increased range, damage, and ability to break shields. I'm quite positive I'm missing something, but oh well. If the pg buff is quite... "large" i can see that an sHP buff really isn't necessary. Honestly. Honestly. Honestly. Lower regulator fitting. That's what you missed Derrith Potential Pilot Proposal? Yes!
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 426	Posted - 2016.02.02 13:20:00 - [15] - Quote Complex hvy shield, complex booster or basic hardener, basic burner xt missiles. Boom increased survivability decreased engagement and reengagement. Already able to fit it. Can drop xt for better burner. Something like that anyways but I'm not looking at it feel free to correct me. Maybe not the complex booster? Idk I'm not logling on atm to check. However with a pg buff this fit can be increased making it truely viable solving hp issue ext. Say let me fit a a complex burner or enhanced hardener though I fear the hardener would make it op. Perhaps the hardener at the cost of using an at. Not sure if the numbers would make that possible but just a vague idea before I go to bed. I'll stop spamming the thread now my apologies. Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 4	Posted - 2016.02.02 13:22:00 - [16] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Presentation? ... Can we work together?? You want anything to test, I gotchu. Anyway, python needs both a small sHP buff and increased PG. It isn't right that any python fit w/o a PG upgrade is pretty much gimped. The small sHP buff.... Probably 10-15% (150-200 sHP).. Sure it's not much but base eHP should at least have a little survivability on it's own. The reason why I say no to tiered dropships is the incubus will become the flying madrugar. We don't need flying madrugars. Imagine fits that even look at AV and laugh... See an enemy ADS and laugh. Knowing how volatile the community is towards ADS (according to history), that's begging for another nerf to ADS. I always want about 5-10% (150-250) more aHP on the incubus because base aHP vanishes with proto swarms (they hit like wyr breach....) but that's just my selfish desire to survive a wyr breach If I can get a word in, I'd like to help too. But I'm retired, so in game isn't going to be a thing for me. I'm not entirely sure if Python should get a buff on HP, because if the PG buff is high enough, I can fit a complex heavy extender with hardeners and a light shield booster, getting well over 3000 overall HP, not including hardeners. I completely agree with PG buff however. And on the tiered ships, it will entirely depend on where you put the extra slot. I personally think the python should get an extra low slow, and the inky get a high slot. One issue with that is that there aren't many low mods a python can use effectively (PG upgrade comes to mind, that's about it), and vice versa with inky (give me modules, or a bran muffin!). I'd also like to see blasters get some loving, seeing them get back to how they were in beta. Also an AA variant, increased range, damage, and ability to break shields. I'm quite positive I'm missing something, but oh well. If the pg buff is quite... "large" i can see that an sHP buff really isn't necessary. Honestly. Honestly. Honestly. Lower regulator fitting. That's what you missed Derrith Oh yeah, I did. But TBH, I ran that a couple of times in the past, wasn't really impressed by it. IIRC, vehicle shields didn't cause too much of a delay to be all that crippling. 99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg Bittervet ADS pilot, redheads are hot.
CrotchGrab 360 TasteTheTamsen 2	Posted - 2016.02.02 13:34:00 - [17] - Quote Is the next step having x-1 x/1 and xx0 variants for each vehicle - having pg and cpu adjusted accordingly? I don't see many people running armour-based aerial vehicles, shield is the way to go due to speed and shield hardeners when AV (apart from flux but you don't flux dropships very often) is based on penetrating armour. You need both sides of the coin to start talking about properly balancing the ships. You need the 2 types of ship with the 2 types of AV, each one either more effective or less effective to whichever ship in whichever combination, then it can all be balanced properly. YOUTUBE
Echo 1991 warravens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2016.02.02 14:03:00 - [18] - Quote Love how people think that tiered dropships will result in sky tanks. It won't if CCP nerf hardeners and give all vehicles more HP to mitigate the loss of the hardener efficiency. Then look at AV vehicle interaction and if AV stomps on them then slowly buff vehicles until a balance is found. But anyway, dropships need more fitting room and ads need an extra slot cos it's completely rubbish they dont Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 743	Posted - 2016.02.02 14:09:00 - [19] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Love how people think that tiered dropships will result in sky tanks. It won't if CCP nerf hardeners and give all vehicles more HP to mitigate the loss of the hardener efficiency. Then look at AV vehicle interaction and if AV stomps on them then slowly buff vehicles until a balance is found. But anyway, dropships need more fitting room and ads need an extra slot cos it's completely rubbish they dont Yes, i do think that will happen. Not in the sense of shields, but in the sense of armor. Nerfing armor hardeners is right, but buffing aHP because of that nerf doesn't feel right. Just nerf it enough that aHP buffing isn't justified. Potential Pilot Proposal? Yes!
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 4	Posted - 2016.02.02 14:20:00 - [20] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Love how people think that tiered dropships will result in sky tanks. It won't if CCP nerf hardeners and give all vehicles more HP to mitigate the loss of the hardener efficiency. Then look at AV vehicle interaction and if AV stomps on them then slowly buff vehicles until a balance is found. But anyway, dropships need more fitting room and ads need an extra slot cos it's completely rubbish they dont Yes, i do think that will happen. Not in the sense of shields, but in the sense of armor. Nerfing armor hardeners is right, but buffing aHP because of that nerf doesn't feel right. Just nerf it enough that aHP buffing isn't justified. I'm actually more of the belief that rep speed is the main problem. Granted, armor hardeners need some minor nerf, but the main issue with hardeners is that you regen that HP lost before the other fighter has time to put in another volley, thus making your effort worthless. 99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg Bittervet ADS pilot, redheads are hot.

FireBirdStar Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 153	Posted - 2016.02.02 14:28:00 - [21] - Quote Give ADS resistance vs Swarms / PLC / FG / Blaster / Rail / Rocket ( 10% by Incubus / 15 % by Python ) One Extra Slot for Incubus & Python normalize CPU & PG Done Born Gallente, Pure Caldari
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 743	Posted - 2016.02.02 14:41:00 - [22] - Quote FireBirdStar wrote: Give ADS resistance vs Swarms / PLC / FG / Blaster / Rail / Rocket ( 10% by Incubus / 15 % by Python ) One Extra Slot for Incubus & Python normalize CPU & PG Done Would you like to explain why they should have innate resistances? Potential Pilot Proposal? Yes!
Murder Medic Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 429	Posted - 2016.02.02 14:46:00 - [23] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: FireBirdStar wrote: Give ADS resistance vs Swarms / PLC / FG / Blaster / Rail / Rocket ( 10% by Incubus / 15 % by Python ) One Extra Slot for Incubus & Python normalize CPU & PG Done Would you like to explain why they should have innate resistances? Well back in the day, Logi ships had 2% resists per level of the skill, so up to 10%. Considering ADS bonus was brutally neutered into irrelevance, it would be nice to get something else out of it. I for one feel that both ADS and LAVs should be receiving the same treatment as HAVs through tiers if nothing else. STD is a gimped version of what we have, ADV is the current, and PRO has an extra secondary slot with some extra PG / CPU to fit things (and possibly a slight buff to base PG for Pythons since they can't fit half their stuff right now) If you then make LAVs more resistant, you can give AV some minor buffs to help them combat HAVs without making LAVs and ADS entirely irrelevant. Honestly ADS is fairly survivable right now if flown correctly, so I don't want to go back to sky tanks or anything. However, I've always been a firm believer that the best way to destroy a vehicle is with another vehicle. I absolutely think concentrated AV fire should as well, however, I've always seen AV Infantry as secondary to AV vehicles. Youtube If I'm online you can find me in the chat channel "corsy"
Echo 1991 warravens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2016.02.02 14:56:00 - [24] - Quote Look, if you want to buff LAVs and dropships, resistance bonuses aren't the way to do it, look at logi LAVs. Resistance on top of hardeners makes things even harder to kill. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Murder Medic Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 429	Posted - 2016.02.02 15:00:00 - [25] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Look, if you want to buff LAVs and dropships, resistance bonuses aren't the way to do it, look at logi LAVs. Resistance on top of hardeners makes things even harder to kill. I don't think CCP is even going to bother ever touching vehicles again, I'm just tossing out words for boredoms sake. Youtube If I'm online you can find me in the chat channel "corsy"
Echo 1991 warravens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2016.02.02 15:04:00 - [26] - Quote Murder Medic wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Look, if you want to buff LAVs and dropships, resistance bonuses aren't the way to do it, look at logi LAVs. Resistance on top of hardeners makes things even harder to kill. I don't think CCP is even going to bother ever touching vehicles again, I'm just tossing out words for boredoms sake. You could be right, but for the sake of balance, no resistance bonuses until we get to a point where AV is just about to be too good and we decide to either buff vehicles or nerf AV. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Murder Medic Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 429	Posted - 2016.02.02 15:10:00 - [27] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Murder Medic wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Look, if you want to buff LAVs and dropships, resistance bonuses aren't the way to do it, look at logi LAVs. Resistance on top of hardeners makes things even harder to kill. I don't think CCP is even going to bother ever touching vehicles again, I'm just tossing out words for boredoms sake. You could be right, but for the sake of balance, no resistance bonuses until we get to a point where AV is just about to be too good and we decide to either buff vehicles or nerf AV. You're probably right, but it would be nice to have more fitting options, and for LAVs to not explode when you fart in their general direction. Youtube If I'm online you can find me in the chat channel "corsy"
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 743	Posted - 2016.02.02 15:29:00 - [28] - Quote Murder Medic wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Murder Medic wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Look, if you want to buff LAVs and dropships, resistance bonuses aren't the way to do it, look at logi LAVs. Resistance on top of hardeners makes things even harder to kill. I don't think CCP is even going to bother ever touching vehicles again, I'm just tossing out words for boredoms sake. You could be right, but for the sake of balance, no resistance bonuses until we get to a point where AV is just about to be too good and we decide to either buff vehicles or nerf AV. You're probably right, but it would be nice to have more fitting options, and for LAVs to not explode when you fart in their general direction. It's sad that LAV's have poor eHP... Wish they could go back to what they used to be. Potential Pilot Proposal? Yes!
Murder Medic Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 430	Posted - 2016.02.02 15:38:00 - [29] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: It's sad that LAV's have poor eHP... Wish they could go back to what they used to be. I definitely agree. A well fit LAV is EXPENSIVE and very easy to lose to all kinds of things. It would be nice to see vehicle combat encouraged, not just HAV combat. A well fit LAV with a railgun and 2 AV players is basically the bane of vehicles, if their ride didn't melt like the wicked witch of the west. Youtube If I'm online you can find me in the chat channel "corsy"
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 430	Posted - 2016.02.03 03:01:00 - [30] - Quote FireBirdStar wrote: Give ADS resistance vs Swarms / PLC / FG / Blaster / Rail / Rocket ( 10% by Incubus / 15 % by Python ) One Extra Slot for Incubus & Python normalize CPU & PG Done http://imgur.com/xzJo3c5 These are just pub stats but that's with 3-6 av on me and my gunner every match. What would it look like with innate resistance? I don't think av is the problem but rather lack of balance between mods creating only a few viable fits. Shield boosters to multiple pulses, passive armour reps nerfed and active armour reps brought back. Swarms are near useless against the ads with its superior range. Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family

Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 154	Posted - 2016.02.03 06:23:00 - [31] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Presentation? ... Can we work together?? You want anything to test, I gotchu. Anyway, python needs both a small sHP buff and increased PG. It isn't right that any python fit w/o a PG upgrade is pretty much gimped. The small sHP buff.... Probably 10-15% (150-200 sHP).. Sure it's not much but base eHP should at least have a little survivability on it's own. The reason why I say no to tiered dropships is the incubus will become the flying madrugar. We don't need flying madrugars. Imagine fits that even look at AV and laugh... See an enemy ADS and laugh. Knowing how volatile the community is towards ADS (according to history), that's begging for another nerf to ADS. I always want about 5-10% (150-250) more aHP on the incubus because base aHP vanishes with proto swarms (they hit like wyr breach....) but that's just my selfish desire to survive a wyr breach I'm personally not a fan of the python, but I know it needs some love. My main agenda (I'm going to meet with Darth hopefully tomorrow and go over the current issues with ADS) is to get the Incubus to at least be viable for it's bonus, the rail is useless with only 15% ROF bonus and no overheat bonus. The blaster dispersion was inverted so now you literally can't kill anything with it and the dispersion stabilizer makes you have terrible dispersion permanently.... I would without a doubt agree that the Python needs a sHP buff, the base hp is not survivable. I've flown many a fit without any HP mods on a python and any time you get hit by a forge without a hardener running it's an instagank. As for the PG buff I also agree, there aren't any viable fits that for the Python that don't have a PG upgrade. I'd love to see shield regulators be fittable on a Python but currently any fit with one is gimped in some other area. I'd love to work with you and am completely open to any suggestions you might have. I'll mail you in game with a channel you can join to get in touch with me. I really do need someone with a proper Python perspective to help me out here, I almost never fly the Python and am out of touch with it's current situation. My main ADS role is an AV Rail Incubus so I could really use some help with the Python side of ADS balancing. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 154	Posted - 2016.02.03 06:38:00 - [32] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Is the next step having x-1 x/1 and xx0 variants for each vehicle - having pg and cpu adjusted accordingly? I don't see many people running armour-based aerial vehicles, shield is the way to go due to speed and shield hardeners when AV (apart from flux but you don't flux dropships very often) is based on penetrating armour. You need both sides of the coin to start talking about properly balancing the ships. You need the 2 types of ship with the 2 types of AV, each one either more effective or less effective to whichever ship in whichever combination, then it can all be balanced properly. The incubus flies exactly as fast as the python. Currently armor based AV is wrecking the Incubus, the only AV that really doesn't worry me when flying an Incubus is the Forge and PLC. Most of my Incubus fits can outrep the average amount of shots a forge can land on me. Usually I'll get rocked by the first one but as soon as I go into "Evasive Maneuvers" Mode, I'm almost always back to full HP before I'm hit with another round, unless I just happen to come across an amazing forger. Swarms and large blasters and rails are the current go to for Incubus removal. The swarms 20% bonus to armor on top of the cal mando getting another 10% is just eating the Incubus alive. I find two swarmers to be an almost guaranteed kill on an Incubus, provided you haven't fit an afterburner. (I'm not a fan of the AB, I prefer a shield booster to tank another volley of swarms but if you encounter two swarmers at the same time you WILL die) The blaster can out DPS almost any reps (except 2 complex light and 1 basic heavy) at 50% effective range. Making it a very deadly anti-air weapon. The rail is absolutely ridiculous VS ADS, one of the biggest problems I face on a regular basis as a Rail Incubus is that I pop a tanker and he proceeds to sit 100m back in his redline and snipe me across the map for the rest of the match. Since the Rail Inc lost almost all of it's bonus you don't have near enough DPS to swoop in the redline, pop him and AB out, it's just not possible. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 154	Posted - 2016.02.03 06:42:00 - [33] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: FireBirdStar wrote: Give ADS resistance vs Swarms / PLC / FG / Blaster / Rail / Rocket ( 10% by Incubus / 15 % by Python ) One Extra Slot for Incubus & Python normalize CPU & PG Done http://imgur.com/xzJo3c5 These are just pub stats but that's with 3-6 av on me and my gunner every match. What would it look like with innate resistance? I don't think av is the problem but rather lack of balance between mods creating only a few viable fits. Shield boosters to multiple pulses, passive armour reps nerfed and active armour reps brought back. Swarms are near useless against the ads with its superior range. I entirely disagree, swarms eat the incubus alive, even the triple repped incubus can't survive a beacons if you have no AB. There really isn't any ADS fit I know of that survives swarms. The lack of any chance to dodge swarms or out-maneuver them leaves you with only one option, running. And I don't like to run. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
KEROSIINI-TERO Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2016.02.03 07:04:00 - [34] - Quote - Shield DSs are so much more fragile than armor ones, that they are very impractical to use in almost any situation. - Armor dropships are survivable enough with proper piloting and fitting. Proper being pilot really flies according to ship's weaknesses... - Not sure if this goes for the 'OP MCC' category, but: ADS pilot gun system is very bad, because A) it is wonky and force resets itself B) ADS blocks the view on the ground and C) the much complained low infantry render distance hinders in targetfinding as well. "Cut cut cut - Trim trim trim!" KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 159	Posted - 2016.02.03 07:12:00 - [35] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: - Shield DSs are so much more fragile than armor ones, that they are very impractical to use in almost any situation. - Armor dropships are survivable enough with proper piloting and fitting. Proper being pilot really flies according to ship's weaknesses... - Not sure if this goes for the 'OP MCC' category, but: ADS pilot gun system is very bad, because A) it is wonky and force resets itself B) ADS blocks the view on the ground and C) the much complained low infantry render distance hinders in targetfinding as well. All of those points are completely valid and are already on my list. I doubt that CCP will ever make the ADS transparent from the pilots POV but that alone would do wonders for ADS. And the render distance is a massssssive issue. We pilots literally spend most of our time dodging attacks from players that ARE invisible. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 430	Posted - 2016.02.03 07:39:00 - [36] - Quote Git Gud Bruh wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: FireBirdStar wrote: Give ADS resistance vs Swarms / PLC / FG / Blaster / Rail / Rocket ( 10% by Incubus / 15 % by Python ) One Extra Slot for Incubus & Python normalize CPU & PG Done http://imgur.com/xzJo3c5 These are just pub stats but that's with 3-6 av on me and my gunner every match. What would it look like with innate resistance? I don't think av is the problem but rather lack of balance between mods creating only a few viable fits. Shield boosters to multiple pulses, passive armour reps nerfed and active armour reps brought back. Swarms are near useless against the ads with its superior range. I entirely disagree, swarms eat the incubus alive, even the triple repped incubus can't survive a beacons if you have no AB. There really isn't any ADS fit I know of that survives swarms. The lack of any chance to dodge swarms or out-maneuver them leaves you with only one option, running. And I don't like to run. 1harden 2x rep burner solves that problem. You will survive if you don't get too close triple rep is only good for anti air if that. Bring back active reps nerf passive boom more variety in fitting You shoot dither then swarms lock. If they suprise you leave and come back to reengage. Simple fitting and tactics error Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 4	Posted - 2016.02.03 07:39:00 - [37] - Quote Git Gud Bruh wrote: I entirely disagree, swarms eat the incubus alive, even the triple repped incubus can't survive a beacons if you have no AB. There really isn't any ADS fit I know of that survives swarms. The lack of any chance to dodge swarms or out-maneuver them leaves you with only one option, running. And I don't like to run. That's a bit of an unfair bias on your end. If you'll indulge me, I can show you what's wrong with your logic. First off, swarms are an anti-armor weapon. You're not supposed to be able to fight a beacons with an inky, unless you're running a hardener, which you presented an incredibly biased fit towards. All it really takes for an incubus to stand a fighting chance against a swarm is to equip a hardener, a rep, and activate said hardener before fighting swarm. And there is a fit that exists that can combat swarms. Two in fact. They're both python fits, just so you know. First, and most popular: 1 complex hardener 1 heavy shield extender ADV 1 complex light shield booster 1 PG upgrade 1 xt missile This fit requires level four shield fitting OP, and level three missile fitting OP, minimum. This next fit is incredibly situational, and ONLY is effective towards swarms, and nothing else. Three hardeners 1 xt missile Something in low slot While I do agree it is preposterous that you can't dodge a swarm in an actual fight, there are ways to combat this. 99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg Bittervet ADS pilot, redheads are hot.
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 164	Posted - 2016.02.03 07:49:00 - [38] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: They're both python fits, just so you know. My point exactly. The incubus stands no chance against a single swarmer without a hardener and even with a hardener it simply takes 1 swarmer and any other AV that can deal 1000+ damage to pop any incubus fit. This isn't balance, it's a completely one sided battle in the swarmers favor. The python excels at combating swarms and the incubus is literally just free points if you get your whole clip off and it doesn't have an afterburner. We're stuck at a point were any survivable ADS fit pretty much consists of a hardener and an AB. We don't have the ability to fit anything but that due to swarms. It's bad enough they can lock on 3 times farther away than we can render them, combine that with the fact that basically every single ADS fit is this cookie cutter style or you die. And I do indulge in the triple hardened Python. I find it to be a very good anti-swarm fit but it's only that. It has almost no health and god forbid you get clipped by anything when you're hardeners are out. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 433	Posted - 2016.02.03 07:50:00 - [39] - Quote Git Gud Bruh wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: - Shield DSs are so much more fragile than armor ones, that they are very impractical to use in almost any situation. - Armor dropships are survivable enough with proper piloting and fitting. Proper being pilot really flies according to ship's weaknesses... - Not sure if this goes for the 'OP MCC' category, but: ADS pilot gun system is very bad, because A) it is wonky and force resets itself B) ADS blocks the view on the ground and C) the much complained low infantry render distance hinders in targetfinding as well. All of those points are completely valid and are already on my list. I doubt that CCP will ever make the ADS transparent from the pilots POV but that alone would do wonders for ADS. And the render distance is a massssssive issue. We pilots literally spend most of our time dodging attacks from players that ARE invisible. python is much more survivable than the incubis vs av actually with higher resistance and more generally in it's viable fits. It also has the bonus to missiles making it beget for anti av. While the incubis can provided more sustained action with passive reps and longer active hardeners. It gets its bonus to rails also. This makes it perfect for anti vehicles. The v roles are very well defined Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 164	Posted - 2016.02.03 07:58:00 - [40] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Git Gud Bruh wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: - Shield DSs are so much more fragile than armor ones, that they are very impractical to use in almost any situation. - Armor dropships are survivable enough with proper piloting and fitting. Proper being pilot really flies according to ship's weaknesses... - Not sure if this goes for the 'OP MCC' category, but: ADS pilot gun system is very bad, because A) it is wonky and force resets itself B) ADS blocks the view on the ground and C) the much complained low infantry render distance hinders in targetfinding as well. All of those points are completely valid and are already on my list. I doubt that CCP will ever make the ADS transparent from the pilots POV but that alone would do wonders for ADS. And the render distance is a massssssive issue. We pilots literally spend most of our time dodging attacks from players that ARE invisible. python is much more survivable than the incubis vs av actually with higher resistance and more generally in it's viable fits. It also has the bonus to missiles making it beget for anti av. While the incubis can provided more sustained action with passive reps and longer active hardeners. It gets its bonus to rails also. This makes it perfect for anti vehicles. The v roles are very well defined As an incubus rail pilot I can tell you that the incubus bonus to rails is pretty much useless at this point. It doesn't get any overheat bonus and the 15% ROF is almost unnoticeable. The DPS of a rail Incubus just isn't enough to be considered a VIABLE ( I cant stress enough of how gimped it really is at this point, it's so gimped I've literally seen 2 rail incubus pilots on the field in the past couple months and both times I already had my rail incubus on the field) AV vehicle. It's already useless versus infantry (aside from the occasional potshot) but on top of that we're stuck with it basically being useless for anything except LAV hunting and popping scrub tankers, it's good for removing a gorgon or myron from your airspace but any python you come across can easily get to safety before you pop him. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"

Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 433	Posted - 2016.02.03 08:02:00 - [41] - Quote Git Gud Bruh wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: Git Gud Bruh wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: - Shield DSs are so much more fragile than armor ones, that they are very impractical to use in almost any situation. - Armor dropships are survivable enough with proper piloting and fitting. Proper being pilot really flies according to ship's weaknesses... - Not sure if this goes for the 'OP MCC' category, but: ADS pilot gun system is very bad, because A) it is wonky and force resets itself B) ADS blocks the view on the ground and C) the much complained low infantry render distance hinders in targetfinding as well. All of those points are completely valid and are already on my list. I doubt that CCP will ever make the ADS transparent from the pilots POV but that alone would do wonders for ADS. And the render distance is a massssssive issue. We pilots literally spend most of our time dodging attacks from players that ARE invisible. python is much more survivable than the incubis vs av actually with higher resistance and more generally in it's viable fits. It also has the bonus to missiles making it beget for anti av. While the incubis can provided more sustained action with passive reps and longer active hardeners. It gets its bonus to rails also. This makes it perfect for anti vehicles. The v roles are very well defined As an incubus rail pilot I can tell you that the incubus bonus to rails is pretty much useless at this point. It doesn't get any overheat bonus and the 15% ROF is almost unnoticeable. The DPS of a rail Incubus just isn't enough to be considered a VIABLE ( I cant stress enough of how gimped it really is at this point, it's so gimped I've literally seen 2 rail incubus pilots on the field in the past couple months and both times I already had my rail incubus on the field) AV vehicle. It's already useless versus infantry (aside from the occasional potshot) but on top of that we're stuck with it basically being useless for anything except LAV hunting and popping scrub tankers, it's good for removing a gorgon or myron from your airspace but any python you come across can easily get to safety before you pop him. Humble me and join sqd sometime. I will show you the light. The rof bonus is a touchy subject. Vs an HAV yes it isn't as noticeable but in a2a any more could throw the balance off. The heat build up is not per shot but time based in this game as with a scr and auch. (I believe) so a bonus to rof is a bonus to heat build up in a sense. Edit again: also without an AB you leave yourself vulnerable to any properly fit python leaving you unable to achieve the primary role of the incubis which is anti air. A light assault vehicle with a light turret should be harder to use to kill an HAV and it is not impossible still as you have windows of opportunity when it's hardeners go off and you hot bit in the sweet spot just a few times. Simale fitting and tactics errors as I stated. Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 164	Posted - 2016.02.03 08:11:00 - [42] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Git Gud Bruh wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: Git Gud Bruh wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: - Shield DSs are so much more fragile than armor ones, that they are very impractical to use in almost any situation. - Armor dropships are survivable enough with proper piloting and fitting. Proper being pilot really flies according to ship's weaknesses... - Not sure if this goes for the 'OP MCC' category, but: ADS pilot gun system is very bad, because A) it is wonky and force resets itself B) ADS blocks the view on the ground and C) the much complained low infantry render distance hinders in targetfinding as well. All of those points are completely valid and are already on my list. I doubt that CCP will ever make the ADS transparent from the pilots POV but that alone would do wonders for ADS. And the render distance is a massssssive issue. We pilots literally spend most of our time dodging attacks from players that ARE invisible. python is much more survivable than the incubis vs av actually with higher resistance and more generally in it's viable fits. It also has the bonus to missiles making it beget for anti av. While the incubis can provided more sustained action with passive reps and longer active hardeners. It gets its bonus to rails also. This makes it perfect for anti vehicles. The v roles are very well defined As an incubus rail pilot I can tell you that the incubus bonus to rails is pretty much useless at this point. It doesn't get any overheat bonus and the 15% ROF is almost unnoticeable. The DPS of a rail Incubus just isn't enough to be considered a VIABLE ( I cant stress enough of how gimped it really is at this point, it's so gimped I've literally seen 2 rail incubus pilots on the field in the past couple months and both times I already had my rail incubus on the field) AV vehicle. It's already useless versus infantry (aside from the occasional potshot) but on top of that we're stuck with it basically being useless for anything except LAV hunting and popping scrub tankers, it's good for removing a gorgon or myron from your airspace but any python you come across can easily get to safety before you pop him. Humble me and join sqd sometime. I will show you the light. You online now? "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 4	Posted - 2016.02.03 08:14:00 - [43] - Quote Git Gud Bruh wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: They're both python fits, just so you know. My point exactly. The incubus stands no chance against a single swarmer without a hardener and even with a hardener it simply takes 1 swarmer and any other AV that can deal 1000+ damage to pop any incubus fit. This isn't balance, it's a completely one sided battle in the swarmers favor. The python excels at combating swarms and the incubus is literally just free points if you get your whole clip off and it doesn't have an afterburner. We're stuck at a point were any survivable ADS fit pretty much consists of a hardener and an AB. We don't have the ability to fit anything but that due to swarms. It's bad enough they can lock on 3 times farther away than we can render them, combine that with the fact that basically every single ADS fit is this cookie cutter style or you die. And I do indulge in the triple hardened Python. I find it to be a very good anti-swarm fit but it's only that. It has almost no health and god forbid you get clipped by anything when you're hardeners are out. Well, look at it like this. Swarms are an anti armor weapon, it is their job to chew through armor like gum. As much as I hate swarms, it is unreasonable to say that they shouldn't be able to excel at fighting what they were made to fight, armor. And on that extra AV guy, that is called teamwork, or a grudge. While it may not be fair to get tag teamed by multiple AV in an honor perspective, it's perfectly reasonable to expect to be killed. I've actually had to 4v1 AV in my time, and I won a few times. It's not easy, but not impossible. I'm not really going to respond to the second paragraph, as I'm totally on board with that stuff. 99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg Bittervet ADS pilot, redheads are hot.
Murder Medic Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 445	Posted - 2016.02.03 08:15:00 - [44] - Quote Git Gud Bruh wrote: As an incubus rail pilot I can tell you that the incubus bonus to rails is pretty much useless at this point. It doesn't get any overheat bonus and the 15% ROF is almost unnoticeable. The DPS of a rail Incubus just isn't enough to be considered a VIABLE ( I cant stress enough of how gimped it really is at this point, it's so gimped I've literally seen 2 rail incubus pilots on the field in the past couple months and both times I already had my rail incubus on the field) AV vehicle. It's already useless versus infantry (aside from the occasional potshot) but on top of that we're stuck with it basically being useless for anything except LAV hunting and popping scrub tankers, it's good for removing a gorgon or myron from your airspace but any python you come across can easily get to safety before you pop him. Not sure what you're doing wrong but AV Incubus is very strong at what it's good at, killing other vehicles. It's what I run primarily and I usually only die if I do something really really dumb or get suicided while I'm focusing on a tank. Youtube If I'm online you can find me in the chat channel "corsy"
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 433	Posted - 2016.02.03 08:19:00 - [45] - Quote Edited post to provide more insight. And no not atm I just got off work and am heading home. I mean no offense nor doubt your ability btw. Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 1	Posted - 2016.02.03 08:23:00 - [46] - Quote As I'm all for removing HAV tiers, adding DS/LAV tiers is a resounding NO. Having vehicle tiers makes balancing the already tiered AV a real pain. I will be lurking this thread as I didn't get good ads pilot feedback in my f&I thread. Getting vehicle mods in a better place is crucial to all operators. Shields need to revert to original multi-pulse boosters, as does armor reps. We need some more low slot variety, Chassis mods, field stabilizers, etc. Getting all DS some pg/cpu love is in my project, a tiny bit more HP (racial), and maybe an additional skill bonus. (passive shield/armor rate increase, mcru fitting op, plate/extender cost reduction amongst possible suggestions.) Gorgon/grimsnes are in a good spot. I can fit and abuse them quite nicely. Incubus is a good ship, just lacks real teeth. Shield DS are a boondoggle. They don't fit well. They can't linger. Only pro is having a fully skilled python/missile setup. Problem is mirrored this time with great teeth, on a garbage scow. Turret fitting kills all models, ads more so than the rest. I'd like to see a racial fitting bonus' for all but MLT aircraft. Maybe give vanilla DS a scanner/mcru bonus. Anything to expand beyond "hurr durr I want put link up there" Anyhoo, as you were. I'll be watching @_@ "And god dmn it I will be an artichoke, get off my stalk." ~Dust Fiend~ Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it*~
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 433	Posted - 2016.02.03 08:28:00 - [47] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Git Gud Bruh wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: They're both python fits, just so you know. My point exactly. The incubus stands no chance against a single swarmer without a hardener and even with a hardener it simply takes 1 swarmer and any other AV that can deal 1000+ damage to pop any incubus fit. This isn't balance, it's a completely one sided battle in the swarmers favor. The python excels at combating swarms and the incubus is literally just free points if you get your whole clip off and it doesn't have an afterburner. We're stuck at a point were any survivable ADS fit pretty much consists of a hardener and an AB. We don't have the ability to fit anything but that due to swarms. It's bad enough they can lock on 3 times farther away than we can render them, combine that with the fact that basically every single ADS fit is this cookie cutter style or you die. And I do indulge in the triple hardened Python. I find it to be a very good anti-swarm fit but it's only that. It has almost no health and god forbid you get clipped by anything when you're hardeners are out. Well, look at it like this. Swarms are an anti armor weapon, it is their job to chew through armor like gum. As much as I hate swarms, it is unreasonable to say that they shouldn't be able to excel at fighting what they were made to fight, armor. And on that extra AV guy, that is called teamwork, or a grudge. While it may not be fair to get tag teamed by multiple AV in an honor perspective, it's perfectly reasonable to expect to be killed. I've actually had to 4v1 AV in my time, and I won a few times. It's not easy, but not impossible. I'm not really going to respond to the second paragraph, as I'm totally on board with that stuff. This is why I favor bringing back active Areps and multi pulse shield boosters while slightly nerfing passive reps. An easy first step in addressing the issue with the small amount of viable fits while leaving av in a good place (which I believe it is). I understand the issue with rendering infantry but the run away and reengagement strat makes it easier to bare fir now. Also a performance issue in the game like that shouldn't be balanced around but simply fixed. So with that in mind it has no place in a balancing conversation and is a separate issue. Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 433	Posted - 2016.02.03 08:33:00 - [48] - Quote Devadander wrote: Getting vehicle mods in a better place is crucial to all operators. Shields need to revert to original multi-pulse boosters, as does armor reps. We need some more low slot variety, Chassis mods, field stabilizers, etc. I would pick just 1 to focus on. My mouth is watering at the thought of multiples like a pg/cpu buff AND ehp. Those two go hand in hand. +1 for the civil and constructive talks I don't normally see in these posts guys. Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 164	Posted - 2016.02.03 08:34:00 - [49] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: The rof bonus is a touchy subject. Vs an HAV yes it isn't as noticeable but in a2a any more could throw the balance off. The heat build up is not per shot but time based in this game as with a scr and auch. (I believe) so a bonus to rof is a bonus to heat build up in a sense. Edit again: also without an AB you leave yourself vulnerable to any properly fit python leaving you unable to achieve the primary role of the incubis which is anti air. A light assault vehicle with a light turret should be harder to use to kill an HAV and it is not impossible still as you have windows of opportunity when it's hardeners go off and you hot bit in the sweet spot just a few times. Simple fitting and tactics errors as I stated. I do agree that a2a the rail incubus is definitely superior but otherwise it's simply trash. Besides air to air and hunting LAV's the rail incubus is virtually useless. It stands no chance at popping a hardened tank and barely any at popping a non-hardened one, providing its got some proper reps and a fuel injector. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 433	Posted - 2016.02.03 08:40:00 - [50] - Quote Git Gud Bruh wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: The rof bonus is a touchy subject. Vs an HAV yes it isn't as noticeable but in a2a any more could throw the balance off. The heat build up is not per shot but time based in this game as with a scr and auch. (I believe) so a bonus to rof is a bonus to heat build up in a sense. Edit again: also without an AB you leave yourself vulnerable to any properly fit python leaving you unable to achieve the primary role of the incubis which is anti air. A light assault vehicle with a light turret should be harder to use to kill an HAV and it is not impossible still as you have windows of opportunity when it's hardeners go off and you hot bit in the sweet spot just a few times. Simple fitting and tactics errors as I stated. I do agree that a2a the rail incubus is definitely superior but otherwise it's simply trash. Besides air to air and hunting LAV's the rail incubus is virtually useless. It stands no chance at popping a hardened tank and barely any at popping a non-hardened one, providing its got some proper reps and a fuel injector. This fits in with the window of opportunity idea ccp pushes. And while no it doesn't compete on even ground even with a hardener off it can push a tank back, destroy it with well placed shots to the sweet spot, and easily be the deciding factor on if that solo swarmer will be effective or not. As a light assault vehicle I personally believe it's safe to say a little assistance should be welcome. Playing as a team is what makes an ads op. Dust Fiend has some good vids up even if his rust is showing Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family

Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 164	Posted - 2016.02.03 08:41:00 - [51] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: I understand the issue with rendering infantry but the run away and reengagement strat makes it easier to bare fir now. Also a performance issue in the game like that shouldn't be balanced around but simply fixed. So with that in mind it has no place in a balancing conversation and is a separate issue. The hit and run scenario we're stuck with is my main beef with ADS, there is no lingering, if there's any AV in the area, especially a swarmer, it's come in with hardener on, fire a few, Afterburn away, tank the few swarms that hit you, outrange the rest, shut of modules, wait, repeat. It's the only playstyle we currently have and it's depressing. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 164	Posted - 2016.02.03 08:46:00 - [52] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Playing as a team is what makes an ads op. Dust Fiend has some good vids up even if his rust is showing What team? Unless I play FW I'm always stuck with 9 blueberries in militia while I dodge officer AV. I can bring a squad but that's still only 3 players in pubs I can coordinate with. I don't feel like we should hinge bets on teamwork when we never even have full teams and 75% of one team is in militia and half of the enemies are running running officer. Aside from the occasional Qsync you don't really ever have a team. And I am a big fan of the fiend..... "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 433	Posted - 2016.02.03 09:02:00 - [53] - Quote Git Gud Bruh wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: Playing as a team is what makes an ads op. Dust Fiend has some good vids up even if his rust is showing What team? Unless I play FW I'm always stuck with 9 blueberries in militia while I dodge officer AV. I can bring a squad but that's still only 3 players in pubs I can coordinate with. I don't feel like we should hinge bets on teamwork when we never even have full teams and 75% of one team is in militia and half of the enemies are running running officer. Aside from the occasional Qsync you don't really ever have a team. And I am a big fan of the fiend..... also issues with game performance and not balance. Anyways I think we've stated our opinions and can both agree that this thread should stay constructive. I'll shoot you a pm in game when I'm on if you'd like to fly around and discuss things more. o7 You can also find me in the xxghosts chat. It's rather dead atm though as my corp and myself mostly play fo4 and eso on ps4 now days and I understand chats can be hard to keep. Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 1	Posted - 2016.02.03 09:03:00 - [54] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Devadander wrote: Getting vehicle mods in a better place is crucial to all operators. Shields need to revert to original multi-pulse boosters, as does armor reps. We need some more low slot variety, Chassis mods, field stabilizers, etc. I would pick just 1 to focus on. My mouth is watering at the thought of multiples like a pg/cpu buff AND ehp. Those two go hand in hand. +1 for the civil and constructive talks I don't normally see in these posts guys. I'm constructing a proposal with three possible variations that goes from minor-complete overhaul. I've got all I need for LAV/HAV, now I just need to bask in a thread like this. My goal for ads would be for a fully skilled pilot to be able to tank a full wyrk volley. Second volley would be the risk/reward decision time thing. PLC impact physics are more deadly to DS than the damage, and really require a dead aim and a good lead. Forge is either zero threat (shooter can't lead) or deadly (shooter can lead) and for DS I'd like to keep it that way. Large turrets are large turrets. Sorry about our luck. They were meant to scare vehicles. I've lost more vehicles to unmanned rails than to any other source. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Once I get something tangible for us to point at and read, I'll start the AV collaboration to finish up all the angles. Then we put it all beside each other and argue some more. And then, maybe then we will have something worth presenting to CCP. So don't get too excited. You'll see 1.3 long before this gels. "And god dmn it I will be an artichoke, get off my stalk." ~Dust Fiend~ Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it*~
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 164	Posted - 2016.02.03 09:09:00 - [55] - Quote Devadander wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: Devadander wrote: Getting vehicle mods in a better place is crucial to all operators. Shields need to revert to original multi-pulse boosters, as does armor reps. We need some more low slot variety, Chassis mods, field stabilizers, etc. I would pick just 1 to focus on. My mouth is watering at the thought of multiples like a pg/cpu buff AND ehp. Those two go hand in hand. +1 for the civil and constructive talks I don't normally see in these posts guys. I'm constructing a proposal with three possible variations that goes from minor-complete overhaul. I've got all I need for LAV/HAV, now I just need to bask in a thread like this. My goal for ads would be for a fully skilled pilot to be able to tank a full wyrk volley. Second volley would be the risk/reward decision time thing. PLC impact physics are more deadly to DS than the damage, and really require a dead aim and a good lead. Forge is either zero threat (shooter can't lead) or deadly (shooter can lead) and for DS I'd like to keep it that way. Large turrets are large turrets. Sorry about our luck. They were meant to scare vehicles. I've lost more vehicles to unmanned rails than to any other source. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Once I get something tangible for us to point at and read, I'll start the AV collaboration to finish up all the angles. Then we put it all beside each other and argue some more. And then, maybe then we will have something worth presenting to CCP. So don't get too excited. You'll see 1.3 long before this gels. Is there a chat we could all gather in to discuss? I have a chat named "most" (no quotations) with no password if anyone is interested in talking things over in-game or running ADS squads. I can converse about ADS all day and would love to get opinions from everyone. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie" "Warbarge is cooldown, please be later"
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 435	Posted - 2016.02.03 09:15:00 - [56] - Quote Git Gud Bruh wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: I understand the issue with rendering infantry but the run away and reengagement strat makes it easier to bare fir now. Also a performance issue in the game like that shouldn't be balanced around but simply fixed. So with that in mind it has no place in a balancing conversation and is a separate issue. The hit and run scenario we're stuck with is my main beef with ADS, there is no lingering, if there's any AV in the area, especially a swarmer, it's come in with hardener on, fire a few, Afterburn away, tank the few swarms that hit you, outrange the rest, shut of modules, wait, repeat. It's the only playstyle we currently have and it's depressing. Last thing. This is not strictly true, as you have a greater range. After the first flight you can usually figure out where the swarms are and hit them from a place you can't be hit. Even with rendering issues I find once you know where they are you can get close enough to render them and still be out of lock range. There is usually no need to run a second time. This is with missiles not rails, which are designed for this. Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 1	Posted - 2016.02.03 09:17:00 - [57] - Quote I'm a god-awful pilot. But I'll pop in there tomorrow just to keep up on active pilots thoughts. "And god dmn it I will be an artichoke, get off my stalk." ~Dust Fiend~ Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it*~
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 438	Posted - 2016.02.03 09:20:00 - [58] - Quote Devadander wrote: I'm a god-awful pilot. But I'll pop in there tomorrow just to keep up on active pilots thoughts. Gunners always welcome :) I'll just kick my buddy back into his tank to kd pad some more and rise above the scrub known as duna. #kingscrub. <- that's me Ghosts of Dawn Rip beezwax we'll never forget you. ghtda #family
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 164	Posted - 2016.02.03 09:32:00 - [59] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Git Gud Bruh wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: I understand the issue with rendering infantry but the run away and reengagement strat makes it easier to bare fir now. Also a performance issue in the game like that shouldn't be balanced around but simply fixed. So with that in mind it has no place in a balancing conversation and is a separate issue. The hit and run scenario we're stuck with is my main beef with ADS, there is no lingering, if there's any AV in the area, especially a swarmer, it's come in with hardener on, fire a few, Afterburn away, tank the few swarms that hit you, outrange the rest, shut of modules, wait, repeat. It's the only playstyle we currently have and it's depressing. Last thing. This is not strictly true, as you have a greater range. After the first flight you can usually figure out where the swarms are and hit them from a place you can't be hit. Even with rendering issues I find once you know where they are you can get close enough to render them and still be out of lock range. There is usually no need to run a second time. This is with missiles not rails, which are designed for this. I literally don't render ANY character models outside of 60 meters. I literally never render a swarmer outside of his lock range. I can take potshots at him with the missiles, sure, but ever since the blast radius got nerfed to **** it's like spearfishing with a toothpick. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie" "Warbarge is cooldown, please be later"
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 164	Posted - 2016.02.03 09:33:00 - [60] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Devadander wrote: I'm a god-awful pilot. But I'll pop in there tomorrow just to keep up on active pilots thoughts. Gunners always welcome :) I'll just kick my buddy back into his tank to kd pad some more and rise above the scrub known as duna. #kingscrub. <- that's me Agreed, I'll take all the points I can get. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie" "Warbarge is cooldown, please be later"

Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 166	Posted - 2016.02.03 09:39:00 - [61] - Quote Devadander wrote: I'm a god-awful pilot. But I'll pop in there tomorrow just to keep up on active pilots thoughts. I'm currently the only one in the channel, but by all means anyone feel free to join the channel and discuss the DS, feel free to invite any other pilots you know. Again the channel is "most" (no quotations, no password) "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie" "Warbarge is cooldown, please be later"
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 746	Posted - 2016.02.03 16:46:00 - [62] - Quote Git Gud Bruh wrote: As an incubus rail pilot I can tell you that the incubus bonus to rails is pretty much useless at this point. It doesn't get any overheat bonus and the 15% ROF is almost unnoticeable. The DPS of a rail Incubus just isn't enough to be considered a VIABLE ( I cant stress enough of how gimped it really is at this point, it's so gimped I've literally seen 2 rail incubus pilots on the field in the past couple months and both times I already had my rail incubus on the field) AV vehicle. It's already useless versus infantry (aside from the occasional potshot) but on top of that we're stuck with it basically being useless for anything except LAV hunting and popping scrub tankers, it's good for removing a gorgon or myron from your airspace but any python you come across can easily get to safety before you pop him. The bonus is anything EXCEPT useless! Sure it's only a 15% RoF but trust me... It's so noticeable it's not even funny. I have a python with a front rail... Air to Air with this thing is so different... Have to manage heat differently. Have to dedicate the shots so much more... That 15%, although small, is pretty significant. I wish 20% was the way it was but, beggers can't be choosers. Now, if I want to get a good tank pilot... I gotta get a gunner... Who's capable.... And has incubus 5... Nah mannn! If you want to pop any ADS, you gotta give them a false sense of security.. It's all a mind game. Let them venture out a little too far from their redline... Then BOOM! surprise :P Lol i usually go defensive in air to air first... I go on the run... I let that pilot think they caught me.... Once they start to dedicate, they get bloodthirsty, they just want to kill... They don't think straight... They start making mistakes... That's when you flip it... Take it to them.. Show them just who you are... Unless they are cocky and AB right up to you... Then you just punish royally. ... But sometimes you get stuck playing defense... But only a few (2 people) been able to do that.. And trust, it might be the same for almost everyone in the ADS group of players. But yes! Any increase to DPS is better than none! Potential Pilot Proposal? Yes!
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 170	Posted - 2016.02.04 06:09:00 - [63] - Quote Well, never mind guys. I guess this thread has no use anymore. Best of luck to you all in your remaining days. "Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie" "Warbarge is cooldown, please be later"


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