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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
154
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Posted - 2016.02.03 06:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Presentation?
... Can we work together?? You want anything to test, I gotchu.
Anyway, python needs both a small sHP buff and increased PG. It isn't right that any python fit w/o a PG upgrade is pretty much gimped.
The small sHP buff.... Probably 10-15% (150-200 sHP).. Sure it's not much but base eHP should at least have a little survivability on it's own.
The reason why I say no to tiered dropships is the incubus will become the flying madrugar.
We don't need flying madrugars. Imagine fits that even look at AV and laugh... See an enemy ADS and laugh. Knowing how volatile the community is towards ADS (according to history), that's begging for another nerf to ADS.
I always want about 5-10% (150-250) more aHP on the incubus because base aHP vanishes with proto swarms (they hit like wyr breach....) but that's just my selfish desire to survive a wyr breach
I'm personally not a fan of the python, but I know it needs some love.
My main agenda (I'm going to meet with Darth hopefully tomorrow and go over the current issues with ADS) is to get the Incubus to at least be viable for it's bonus, the rail is useless with only 15% ROF bonus and no overheat bonus. The blaster dispersion was inverted so now you literally can't kill anything with it and the dispersion stabilizer makes you have terrible dispersion permanently....
I would without a doubt agree that the Python needs a sHP buff, the base hp is not survivable. I've flown many a fit without any HP mods on a python and any time you get hit by a forge without a hardener running it's an instagank.
As for the PG buff I also agree, there aren't any viable fits that for the Python that don't have a PG upgrade. I'd love to see shield regulators be fittable on a Python but currently any fit with one is gimped in some other area.
I'd love to work with you and am completely open to any suggestions you might have. I'll mail you in game with a channel you can join to get in touch with me. I really do need someone with a proper Python perspective to help me out here, I almost never fly the Python and am out of touch with it's current situation. My main ADS role is an AV Rail Incubus so I could really use some help with the Python side of ADS balancing.
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
154
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Posted - 2016.02.03 06:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
CrotchGrab 360 wrote:Is the next step having x-1 x/1 and xx0 variants for each vehicle - having pg and cpu adjusted accordingly?
I don't see many people running armour-based aerial vehicles, shield is the way to go due to speed and shield hardeners when AV (apart from flux but you don't flux dropships very often) is based on penetrating armour.
You need both sides of the coin to start talking about properly balancing the ships.
You need the 2 types of ship with the 2 types of AV, each one either more effective or less effective to whichever ship in whichever combination, then it can all be balanced properly.
The incubus flies exactly as fast as the python.
Currently armor based AV is wrecking the Incubus, the only AV that really doesn't worry me when flying an Incubus is the Forge and PLC.
Most of my Incubus fits can outrep the average amount of shots a forge can land on me. Usually I'll get rocked by the first one but as soon as I go into "Evasive Maneuvers" Mode, I'm almost always back to full HP before I'm hit with another round, unless I just happen to come across an amazing forger.
Swarms and large blasters and rails are the current go to for Incubus removal. The swarms 20% bonus to armor on top of the cal mando getting another 10% is just eating the Incubus alive. I find two swarmers to be an almost guaranteed kill on an Incubus, provided you haven't fit an afterburner. (I'm not a fan of the AB, I prefer a shield booster to tank another volley of swarms but if you encounter two swarmers at the same time you WILL die)
The blaster can out DPS almost any reps (except 2 complex light and 1 basic heavy) at 50% effective range. Making it a very deadly anti-air weapon.
The rail is absolutely ridiculous VS ADS, one of the biggest problems I face on a regular basis as a Rail Incubus is that I pop a tanker and he proceeds to sit 100m back in his redline and snipe me across the map for the rest of the match. Since the Rail Inc lost almost all of it's bonus you don't have near enough DPS to swoop in the redline, pop him and AB out, it's just not possible.
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
154
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Posted - 2016.02.03 06:42:00 -
[33] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:FireBirdStar wrote:Give ADS resistance vs Swarms / PLC / FG / Blaster / Rail / Rocket ( 10% by Incubus / 15 % by Python )
One Extra Slot for Incubus & Python
normalize CPU & PG
Done http://imgur.com/xzJo3c5These are just pub stats but that's with 3-6 av on me and my gunner every match. What would it look like with innate resistance? I don't think av is the problem but rather lack of balance between mods creating only a few viable fits. Shield boosters to multiple pulses, passive armour reps nerfed and active armour reps brought back. Swarms are near useless against the ads with its superior range.
I entirely disagree, swarms eat the incubus alive, even the triple repped incubus can't survive a beacons if you have no AB. There really isn't any ADS fit I know of that survives swarms. The lack of any chance to dodge swarms or out-maneuver them leaves you with only one option, running. And I don't like to run.
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
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KEROSIINI-TERO
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2016.02.03 07:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
- Shield DSs are so much more fragile than armor ones, that they are very impractical to use in almost any situation.
- Armor dropships are survivable enough with proper piloting and fitting. Proper being pilot really flies according to ship's weaknesses...
- Not sure if this goes for the 'OP MCC' category, but: ADS pilot gun system is very bad, because A) it is wonky and force resets itself B) ADS blocks the view on the ground and C) the much complained low infantry render distance hinders in targetfinding as well.
"Cut cut cut - Trim trim trim!"
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
159
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Posted - 2016.02.03 07:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:- Shield DSs are so much more fragile than armor ones, that they are very impractical to use in almost any situation.
- Armor dropships are survivable enough with proper piloting and fitting. Proper being pilot really flies according to ship's weaknesses...
- Not sure if this goes for the 'OP MCC' category, but: ADS pilot gun system is very bad, because A) it is wonky and force resets itself B) ADS blocks the view on the ground and C) the much complained low infantry render distance hinders in targetfinding as well.
All of those points are completely valid and are already on my list. I doubt that CCP will ever make the ADS transparent from the pilots POV but that alone would do wonders for ADS. And the render distance is a massssssive issue. We pilots literally spend most of our time dodging attacks from players that ARE invisible.
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
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Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
430
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 07:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Git Gud Bruh wrote:Demandred Moores wrote:FireBirdStar wrote:Give ADS resistance vs Swarms / PLC / FG / Blaster / Rail / Rocket ( 10% by Incubus / 15 % by Python )
One Extra Slot for Incubus & Python
normalize CPU & PG
Done http://imgur.com/xzJo3c5These are just pub stats but that's with 3-6 av on me and my gunner every match. What would it look like with innate resistance? I don't think av is the problem but rather lack of balance between mods creating only a few viable fits. Shield boosters to multiple pulses, passive armour reps nerfed and active armour reps brought back. Swarms are near useless against the ads with its superior range. I entirely disagree, swarms eat the incubus alive, even the triple repped incubus can't survive a beacons if you have no AB. There really isn't any ADS fit I know of that survives swarms. The lack of any chance to dodge swarms or out-maneuver them leaves you with only one option, running. And I don't like to run. 1harden 2x rep burner solves that problem. You will survive if you don't get too close triple rep is only good for anti air if that. Bring back active reps nerf passive boom more variety in fitting
You shoot dither then swarms lock. If they suprise you leave and come back to reengage. Simple fitting and tactics error
Ghosts of Dawn
Rip beezwax we'll never forget you.
ghtda #family
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 07:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Git Gud Bruh wrote:
I entirely disagree, swarms eat the incubus alive, even the triple repped incubus can't survive a beacons if you have no AB. There really isn't any ADS fit I know of that survives swarms. The lack of any chance to dodge swarms or out-maneuver them leaves you with only one option, running. And I don't like to run.
That's a bit of an unfair bias on your end. If you'll indulge me, I can show you what's wrong with your logic.
First off, swarms are an anti-armor weapon. You're not supposed to be able to fight a beacons with an inky, unless you're running a hardener, which you presented an incredibly biased fit towards. All it really takes for an incubus to stand a fighting chance against a swarm is to equip a hardener, a rep, and activate said hardener before fighting swarm.
And there is a fit that exists that can combat swarms. Two in fact. They're both python fits, just so you know.
First, and most popular:
1 complex hardener
1 heavy shield extender ADV
1 complex light shield booster
1 PG upgrade
1 xt missile
This fit requires level four shield fitting OP, and level three missile fitting OP, minimum.
This next fit is incredibly situational, and ONLY is effective towards swarms, and nothing else.
Three hardeners
1 xt missile
Something in low slot
While I do agree it is preposterous that you can't dodge a swarm in an actual fight, there are ways to combat this.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Bittervet ADS pilot, redheads are hot.
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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
164
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Posted - 2016.02.03 07:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:They're both python fits, just so you know.
My point exactly. The incubus stands no chance against a single swarmer without a hardener and even with a hardener it simply takes 1 swarmer and any other AV that can deal 1000+ damage to pop any incubus fit. This isn't balance, it's a completely one sided battle in the swarmers favor. The python excels at combating swarms and the incubus is literally just free points if you get your whole clip off and it doesn't have an afterburner.
We're stuck at a point were any survivable ADS fit pretty much consists of a hardener and an AB. We don't have the ability to fit anything but that due to swarms. It's bad enough they can lock on 3 times farther away than we can render them, combine that with the fact that basically every single ADS fit is this cookie cutter style or you die. And I do indulge in the triple hardened Python. I find it to be a very good anti-swarm fit but it's only that. It has almost no health and god forbid you get clipped by anything when you're hardeners are out.
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
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Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
433
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 07:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
Git Gud Bruh wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:- Shield DSs are so much more fragile than armor ones, that they are very impractical to use in almost any situation.
- Armor dropships are survivable enough with proper piloting and fitting. Proper being pilot really flies according to ship's weaknesses...
- Not sure if this goes for the 'OP MCC' category, but: ADS pilot gun system is very bad, because A) it is wonky and force resets itself B) ADS blocks the view on the ground and C) the much complained low infantry render distance hinders in targetfinding as well. All of those points are completely valid and are already on my list. I doubt that CCP will ever make the ADS transparent from the pilots POV but that alone would do wonders for ADS. And the render distance is a massssssive issue. We pilots literally spend most of our time dodging attacks from players that ARE invisible. python is much more survivable than the incubis vs av actually with higher resistance and more generally in it's viable fits. It also has the bonus to missiles making it beget for anti av. While the incubis can provided more sustained action with passive reps and longer active hardeners. It gets its bonus to rails also. This makes it perfect for anti vehicles. The v roles are very well defined
Ghosts of Dawn
Rip beezwax we'll never forget you.
ghtda #family
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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
164
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Posted - 2016.02.03 07:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:Git Gud Bruh wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:- Shield DSs are so much more fragile than armor ones, that they are very impractical to use in almost any situation.
- Armor dropships are survivable enough with proper piloting and fitting. Proper being pilot really flies according to ship's weaknesses...
- Not sure if this goes for the 'OP MCC' category, but: ADS pilot gun system is very bad, because A) it is wonky and force resets itself B) ADS blocks the view on the ground and C) the much complained low infantry render distance hinders in targetfinding as well. All of those points are completely valid and are already on my list. I doubt that CCP will ever make the ADS transparent from the pilots POV but that alone would do wonders for ADS. And the render distance is a massssssive issue. We pilots literally spend most of our time dodging attacks from players that ARE invisible. python is much more survivable than the incubis vs av actually with higher resistance and more generally in it's viable fits. It also has the bonus to missiles making it beget for anti av. While the incubis can provided more sustained action with passive reps and longer active hardeners. It gets its bonus to rails also. This makes it perfect for anti vehicles. The v roles are very well defined
As an incubus rail pilot I can tell you that the incubus bonus to rails is pretty much useless at this point. It doesn't get any overheat bonus and the 15% ROF is almost unnoticeable. The DPS of a rail Incubus just isn't enough to be considered a VIABLE ( I cant stress enough of how gimped it really is at this point, it's so gimped I've literally seen 2 rail incubus pilots on the field in the past couple months and both times I already had my rail incubus on the field) AV vehicle. It's already useless versus infantry (aside from the occasional potshot) but on top of that we're stuck with it basically being useless for anything except LAV hunting and popping scrub tankers, it's good for removing a gorgon or myron from your airspace but any python you come across can easily get to safety before you pop him.
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
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Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
433
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 08:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Git Gud Bruh wrote:Demandred Moores wrote:Git Gud Bruh wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:- Shield DSs are so much more fragile than armor ones, that they are very impractical to use in almost any situation.
- Armor dropships are survivable enough with proper piloting and fitting. Proper being pilot really flies according to ship's weaknesses...
- Not sure if this goes for the 'OP MCC' category, but: ADS pilot gun system is very bad, because A) it is wonky and force resets itself B) ADS blocks the view on the ground and C) the much complained low infantry render distance hinders in targetfinding as well. All of those points are completely valid and are already on my list. I doubt that CCP will ever make the ADS transparent from the pilots POV but that alone would do wonders for ADS. And the render distance is a massssssive issue. We pilots literally spend most of our time dodging attacks from players that ARE invisible. python is much more survivable than the incubis vs av actually with higher resistance and more generally in it's viable fits. It also has the bonus to missiles making it beget for anti av. While the incubis can provided more sustained action with passive reps and longer active hardeners. It gets its bonus to rails also. This makes it perfect for anti vehicles. The v roles are very well defined As an incubus rail pilot I can tell you that the incubus bonus to rails is pretty much useless at this point. It doesn't get any overheat bonus and the 15% ROF is almost unnoticeable. The DPS of a rail Incubus just isn't enough to be considered a VIABLE ( I cant stress enough of how gimped it really is at this point, it's so gimped I've literally seen 2 rail incubus pilots on the field in the past couple months and both times I already had my rail incubus on the field) AV vehicle. It's already useless versus infantry (aside from the occasional potshot) but on top of that we're stuck with it basically being useless for anything except LAV hunting and popping scrub tankers, it's good for removing a gorgon or myron from your airspace but any python you come across can easily get to safety before you pop him.
Humble me and join sqd sometime. I will show you the light.
The rof bonus is a touchy subject. Vs an HAV yes it isn't as noticeable but in a2a any more could throw the balance off. The heat build up is not per shot but time based in this game as with a scr and auch. (I believe) so a bonus to rof is a bonus to heat build up in a sense.
Edit again: also without an AB you leave yourself vulnerable to any properly fit python leaving you unable to achieve the primary role of the incubis which is anti air. A light assault vehicle with a light turret should be harder to use to kill an HAV and it is not impossible still as you have windows of opportunity when it's hardeners go off and you hot bit in the sweet spot just a few times.
Simale fitting and tactics errors as I stated.
Ghosts of Dawn
Rip beezwax we'll never forget you.
ghtda #family
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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
164
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 08:11:00 -
[42] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:Git Gud Bruh wrote:Demandred Moores wrote:Git Gud Bruh wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:- Shield DSs are so much more fragile than armor ones, that they are very impractical to use in almost any situation.
- Armor dropships are survivable enough with proper piloting and fitting. Proper being pilot really flies according to ship's weaknesses...
- Not sure if this goes for the 'OP MCC' category, but: ADS pilot gun system is very bad, because A) it is wonky and force resets itself B) ADS blocks the view on the ground and C) the much complained low infantry render distance hinders in targetfinding as well. All of those points are completely valid and are already on my list. I doubt that CCP will ever make the ADS transparent from the pilots POV but that alone would do wonders for ADS. And the render distance is a massssssive issue. We pilots literally spend most of our time dodging attacks from players that ARE invisible. python is much more survivable than the incubis vs av actually with higher resistance and more generally in it's viable fits. It also has the bonus to missiles making it beget for anti av. While the incubis can provided more sustained action with passive reps and longer active hardeners. It gets its bonus to rails also. This makes it perfect for anti vehicles. The v roles are very well defined As an incubus rail pilot I can tell you that the incubus bonus to rails is pretty much useless at this point. It doesn't get any overheat bonus and the 15% ROF is almost unnoticeable. The DPS of a rail Incubus just isn't enough to be considered a VIABLE ( I cant stress enough of how gimped it really is at this point, it's so gimped I've literally seen 2 rail incubus pilots on the field in the past couple months and both times I already had my rail incubus on the field) AV vehicle. It's already useless versus infantry (aside from the occasional potshot) but on top of that we're stuck with it basically being useless for anything except LAV hunting and popping scrub tankers, it's good for removing a gorgon or myron from your airspace but any python you come across can easily get to safety before you pop him. Humble me and join sqd sometime. I will show you the light.
You online now?
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 08:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Git Gud Bruh wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:They're both python fits, just so you know. My point exactly. The incubus stands no chance against a single swarmer without a hardener and even with a hardener it simply takes 1 swarmer and any other AV that can deal 1000+ damage to pop any incubus fit. This isn't balance, it's a completely one sided battle in the swarmers favor. The python excels at combating swarms and the incubus is literally just free points if you get your whole clip off and it doesn't have an afterburner. We're stuck at a point were any survivable ADS fit pretty much consists of a hardener and an AB. We don't have the ability to fit anything but that due to swarms. It's bad enough they can lock on 3 times farther away than we can render them, combine that with the fact that basically every single ADS fit is this cookie cutter style or you die. And I do indulge in the triple hardened Python. I find it to be a very good anti-swarm fit but it's only that. It has almost no health and god forbid you get clipped by anything when you're hardeners are out.
Well, look at it like this. Swarms are an anti armor weapon, it is their job to chew through armor like gum. As much as I hate swarms, it is unreasonable to say that they shouldn't be able to excel at fighting what they were made to fight, armor.
And on that extra AV guy, that is called teamwork, or a grudge. While it may not be fair to get tag teamed by multiple AV in an honor perspective, it's perfectly reasonable to expect to be killed. I've actually had to 4v1 AV in my time, and I won a few times. It's not easy, but not impossible.
I'm not really going to respond to the second paragraph, as I'm totally on board with that stuff.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Bittervet ADS pilot, redheads are hot.
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
445
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 08:15:00 -
[44] - Quote
Git Gud Bruh wrote:As an incubus rail pilot I can tell you that the incubus bonus to rails is pretty much useless at this point. It doesn't get any overheat bonus and the 15% ROF is almost unnoticeable. The DPS of a rail Incubus just isn't enough to be considered a VIABLE ( I cant stress enough of how gimped it really is at this point, it's so gimped I've literally seen 2 rail incubus pilots on the field in the past couple months and both times I already had my rail incubus on the field) AV vehicle. It's already useless versus infantry (aside from the occasional potshot) but on top of that we're stuck with it basically being useless for anything except LAV hunting and popping scrub tankers, it's good for removing a gorgon or myron from your airspace but any python you come across can easily get to safety before you pop him.
Not sure what you're doing wrong but AV Incubus is very strong at what it's good at, killing other vehicles. It's what I run primarily and I usually only die if I do something really really dumb or get suicided while I'm focusing on a tank.
Youtube
If I'm online you can find me in the chat channel "corsy"
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Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
433
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 08:19:00 -
[45] - Quote
Edited post to provide more insight. And no not atm I just got off work and am heading home. I mean no offense nor doubt your ability btw.
Ghosts of Dawn
Rip beezwax we'll never forget you.
ghtda #family
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 08:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
As I'm all for removing HAV tiers, adding DS/LAV tiers is a resounding NO.
Having vehicle tiers makes balancing the already tiered AV a real pain. I will be lurking this thread as I didn't get good ads pilot feedback in my f&I thread.
Getting vehicle mods in a better place is crucial to all operators. Shields need to revert to original multi-pulse boosters, as does armor reps. We need some more low slot variety, Chassis mods, field stabilizers, etc.
Getting all DS some pg/cpu love is in my project, a tiny bit more HP (racial), and maybe an additional skill bonus. (passive shield/armor rate increase, mcru fitting op, plate/extender cost reduction amongst possible suggestions.)
Gorgon/grimsnes are in a good spot. I can fit and abuse them quite nicely. Incubus is a good ship, just lacks real teeth.
Shield DS are a boondoggle. They don't fit well. They can't linger. Only pro is having a fully skilled python/missile setup. Problem is mirrored this time with great teeth, on a garbage scow.
Turret fitting kills all models, ads more so than the rest. I'd like to see a racial fitting bonus' for all but MLT aircraft. Maybe give vanilla DS a scanner/mcru bonus. Anything to expand beyond "hurr durr I want put link up there"
Anyhoo, as you were.
I'll be watching @_@
"And god d*mn it I will be an artichoke, get off my stalk." ~Dust Fiend~
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
433
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 08:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Git Gud Bruh wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:They're both python fits, just so you know. My point exactly. The incubus stands no chance against a single swarmer without a hardener and even with a hardener it simply takes 1 swarmer and any other AV that can deal 1000+ damage to pop any incubus fit. This isn't balance, it's a completely one sided battle in the swarmers favor. The python excels at combating swarms and the incubus is literally just free points if you get your whole clip off and it doesn't have an afterburner. We're stuck at a point were any survivable ADS fit pretty much consists of a hardener and an AB. We don't have the ability to fit anything but that due to swarms. It's bad enough they can lock on 3 times farther away than we can render them, combine that with the fact that basically every single ADS fit is this cookie cutter style or you die. And I do indulge in the triple hardened Python. I find it to be a very good anti-swarm fit but it's only that. It has almost no health and god forbid you get clipped by anything when you're hardeners are out. Well, look at it like this. Swarms are an anti armor weapon, it is their job to chew through armor like gum. As much as I hate swarms, it is unreasonable to say that they shouldn't be able to excel at fighting what they were made to fight, armor. And on that extra AV guy, that is called teamwork, or a grudge. While it may not be fair to get tag teamed by multiple AV in an honor perspective, it's perfectly reasonable to expect to be killed. I've actually had to 4v1 AV in my time, and I won a few times. It's not easy, but not impossible. I'm not really going to respond to the second paragraph, as I'm totally on board with that stuff.
This is why I favor bringing back active Areps and multi pulse shield boosters while slightly nerfing passive reps. An easy first step in addressing the issue with the small amount of viable fits while leaving av in a good place (which I believe it is).
I understand the issue with rendering infantry but the run away and reengagement strat makes it easier to bare fir now. Also a performance issue in the game like that shouldn't be balanced around but simply fixed. So with that in mind it has no place in a balancing conversation and is a separate issue.
Ghosts of Dawn
Rip beezwax we'll never forget you.
ghtda #family
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Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
433
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 08:33:00 -
[48] - Quote
Devadander wrote:
Getting vehicle mods in a better place is crucial to all operators. Shields need to revert to original multi-pulse boosters, as does armor reps. We need some more low slot variety, Chassis mods, field stabilizers, etc.
I would pick just 1 to focus on. My mouth is watering at the thought of multiples like a pg/cpu buff AND ehp. Those two go hand in hand.
+1 for the civil and constructive talks I don't normally see in these posts guys.
Ghosts of Dawn
Rip beezwax we'll never forget you.
ghtda #family
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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
164
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 08:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:The rof bonus is a touchy subject. Vs an HAV yes it isn't as noticeable but in a2a any more could throw the balance off. The heat build up is not per shot but time based in this game as with a scr and auch. (I believe) so a bonus to rof is a bonus to heat build up in a sense.
Edit again: also without an AB you leave yourself vulnerable to any properly fit python leaving you unable to achieve the primary role of the incubis which is anti air. A light assault vehicle with a light turret should be harder to use to kill an HAV and it is not impossible still as you have windows of opportunity when it's hardeners go off and you hot bit in the sweet spot just a few times.
Simple fitting and tactics errors as I stated.
I do agree that a2a the rail incubus is definitely superior but otherwise it's simply trash. Besides air to air and hunting LAV's the rail incubus is virtually useless. It stands no chance at popping a hardened tank and barely any at popping a non-hardened one, providing its got some proper reps and a fuel injector.
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
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Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
433
|
Posted - 2016.02.03 08:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
Git Gud Bruh wrote:Demandred Moores wrote:The rof bonus is a touchy subject. Vs an HAV yes it isn't as noticeable but in a2a any more could throw the balance off. The heat build up is not per shot but time based in this game as with a scr and auch. (I believe) so a bonus to rof is a bonus to heat build up in a sense.
Edit again: also without an AB you leave yourself vulnerable to any properly fit python leaving you unable to achieve the primary role of the incubis which is anti air. A light assault vehicle with a light turret should be harder to use to kill an HAV and it is not impossible still as you have windows of opportunity when it's hardeners go off and you hot bit in the sweet spot just a few times.
Simple fitting and tactics errors as I stated. I do agree that a2a the rail incubus is definitely superior but otherwise it's simply trash. Besides air to air and hunting LAV's the rail incubus is virtually useless. It stands no chance at popping a hardened tank and barely any at popping a non-hardened one, providing its got some proper reps and a fuel injector. This fits in with the window of opportunity idea ccp pushes. And while no it doesn't compete on even ground even with a hardener off it can push a tank back, destroy it with well placed shots to the sweet spot, and easily be the deciding factor on if that solo swarmer will be effective or not. As a light assault vehicle I personally believe it's safe to say a little assistance should be welcome. Playing as a team is what makes an ads op. Dust Fiend has some good vids up even if his rust is showing 
Ghosts of Dawn
Rip beezwax we'll never forget you.
ghtda #family
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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
164
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Posted - 2016.02.03 08:41:00 -
[51] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:I understand the issue with rendering infantry but the run away and reengagement strat makes it easier to bare fir now. Also a performance issue in the game like that shouldn't be balanced around but simply fixed. So with that in mind it has no place in a balancing conversation and is a separate issue.
The hit and run scenario we're stuck with is my main beef with ADS, there is no lingering, if there's any AV in the area, especially a swarmer, it's come in with hardener on, fire a few, Afterburn away, tank the few swarms that hit you, outrange the rest, shut of modules, wait, repeat. It's the only playstyle we currently have and it's depressing.
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
164
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Posted - 2016.02.03 08:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:Playing as a team is what makes an ads op. Dust Fiend has some good vids up even if his rust is showing
What team? Unless I play FW I'm always stuck with 9 blueberries in militia while I dodge officer AV. I can bring a squad but that's still only 3 players in pubs I can coordinate with. I don't feel like we should hinge bets on teamwork when we never even have full teams and 75% of one team is in militia and half of the enemies are running running officer. Aside from the occasional Qsync you don't really ever have a team.
And I am a big fan of the fiend.....
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
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Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
433
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Posted - 2016.02.03 09:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
Git Gud Bruh wrote:Demandred Moores wrote:Playing as a team is what makes an ads op. Dust Fiend has some good vids up even if his rust is showing What team? Unless I play FW I'm always stuck with 9 blueberries in militia while I dodge officer AV. I can bring a squad but that's still only 3 players in pubs I can coordinate with. I don't feel like we should hinge bets on teamwork when we never even have full teams and 75% of one team is in militia and half of the enemies are running running officer. Aside from the occasional Qsync you don't really ever have a team. And I am a big fan of the fiend..... also issues with game performance and not balance. Anyways I think we've stated our opinions and can both agree that this thread should stay constructive. I'll shoot you a pm in game when I'm on if you'd like to fly around and discuss things more. o7
You can also find me in the xxghosts chat. It's rather dead atm though as my corp and myself mostly play fo4 and eso on ps4 now days and I understand chats can be hard to keep.
Ghosts of Dawn
Rip beezwax we'll never forget you.
ghtda #family
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
1
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Posted - 2016.02.03 09:03:00 -
[54] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:Devadander wrote:
Getting vehicle mods in a better place is crucial to all operators. Shields need to revert to original multi-pulse boosters, as does armor reps. We need some more low slot variety, Chassis mods, field stabilizers, etc.
I would pick just 1 to focus on. My mouth is watering at the thought of multiples like a pg/cpu buff AND ehp. Those two go hand in hand. +1 for the civil and constructive talks I don't normally see in these posts guys.
I'm constructing a proposal with three possible variations that goes from minor-complete overhaul. I've got all I need for LAV/HAV, now I just need to bask in a thread like this.
My goal for ads would be for a fully skilled pilot to be able to tank a full wyrk volley. Second volley would be the risk/reward decision time thing.
PLC impact physics are more deadly to DS than the damage, and really require a dead aim and a good lead.
Forge is either zero threat (shooter can't lead) or deadly (shooter can lead) and for DS I'd like to keep it that way.
Large turrets are large turrets. Sorry about our luck. They were meant to scare vehicles. I've lost more vehicles to unmanned rails than to any other source. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
Once I get something tangible for us to point at and read, I'll start the AV collaboration to finish up all the angles. Then we put it all beside each other and argue some more. And then, maybe then we will have something worth presenting to CCP.
So don't get too excited. You'll see 1.3 long before this gels.
"And god d*mn it I will be an artichoke, get off my stalk." ~Dust Fiend~
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
164
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Posted - 2016.02.03 09:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Demandred Moores wrote:Devadander wrote:
Getting vehicle mods in a better place is crucial to all operators. Shields need to revert to original multi-pulse boosters, as does armor reps. We need some more low slot variety, Chassis mods, field stabilizers, etc.
I would pick just 1 to focus on. My mouth is watering at the thought of multiples like a pg/cpu buff AND ehp. Those two go hand in hand. +1 for the civil and constructive talks I don't normally see in these posts guys. I'm constructing a proposal with three possible variations that goes from minor-complete overhaul. I've got all I need for LAV/HAV, now I just need to bask in a thread like this. My goal for ads would be for a fully skilled pilot to be able to tank a full wyrk volley. Second volley would be the risk/reward decision time thing. PLC impact physics are more deadly to DS than the damage, and really require a dead aim and a good lead. Forge is either zero threat (shooter can't lead) or deadly (shooter can lead) and for DS I'd like to keep it that way. Large turrets are large turrets. Sorry about our luck. They were meant to scare vehicles. I've lost more vehicles to unmanned rails than to any other source. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Once I get something tangible for us to point at and read, I'll start the AV collaboration to finish up all the angles. Then we put it all beside each other and argue some more. And then, maybe then we will have something worth presenting to CCP. So don't get too excited. You'll see 1.3 long before this gels.
Is there a chat we could all gather in to discuss? I have a chat named "most" (no quotations) with no password if anyone is interested in talking things over in-game or running ADS squads. I can converse about ADS all day and would love to get opinions from everyone.
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
"Warbarge is cooldown, please be later"
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Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
435
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Posted - 2016.02.03 09:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
Git Gud Bruh wrote:Demandred Moores wrote:I understand the issue with rendering infantry but the run away and reengagement strat makes it easier to bare fir now. Also a performance issue in the game like that shouldn't be balanced around but simply fixed. So with that in mind it has no place in a balancing conversation and is a separate issue. The hit and run scenario we're stuck with is my main beef with ADS, there is no lingering, if there's any AV in the area, especially a swarmer, it's come in with hardener on, fire a few, Afterburn away, tank the few swarms that hit you, outrange the rest, shut of modules, wait, repeat. It's the only playstyle we currently have and it's depressing.
Last thing. This is not strictly true, as you have a greater range. After the first flight you can usually figure out where the swarms are and hit them from a place you can't be hit. Even with rendering issues I find once you know where they are you can get close enough to render them and still be out of lock range. There is usually no need to run a second time. This is with missiles not rails, which are designed for this.
Ghosts of Dawn
Rip beezwax we'll never forget you.
ghtda #family
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
1
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Posted - 2016.02.03 09:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'm a god-awful pilot. But I'll pop in there tomorrow just to keep up on active pilots thoughts.
"And god d*mn it I will be an artichoke, get off my stalk." ~Dust Fiend~
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Demandred Moores
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
438
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Posted - 2016.02.03 09:20:00 -
[58] - Quote
Devadander wrote:I'm a god-awful pilot. But I'll pop in there tomorrow just to keep up on active pilots thoughts.
Gunners always welcome :) I'll just kick my buddy back into his tank to kd pad some more and rise above the scrub known as duna. #kingscrub. <- that's me
Ghosts of Dawn
Rip beezwax we'll never forget you.
ghtda #family
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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
164
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Posted - 2016.02.03 09:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:Git Gud Bruh wrote:Demandred Moores wrote:I understand the issue with rendering infantry but the run away and reengagement strat makes it easier to bare fir now. Also a performance issue in the game like that shouldn't be balanced around but simply fixed. So with that in mind it has no place in a balancing conversation and is a separate issue. The hit and run scenario we're stuck with is my main beef with ADS, there is no lingering, if there's any AV in the area, especially a swarmer, it's come in with hardener on, fire a few, Afterburn away, tank the few swarms that hit you, outrange the rest, shut of modules, wait, repeat. It's the only playstyle we currently have and it's depressing. Last thing. This is not strictly true, as you have a greater range. After the first flight you can usually figure out where the swarms are and hit them from a place you can't be hit. Even with rendering issues I find once you know where they are you can get close enough to render them and still be out of lock range. There is usually no need to run a second time. This is with missiles not rails, which are designed for this.
I literally don't render ANY character models outside of 60 meters. I literally never render a swarmer outside of his lock range. I can take potshots at him with the missiles, sure, but ever since the blast radius got nerfed to **** it's like spearfishing with a toothpick.
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
"Warbarge is cooldown, please be later"
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Git Gud Bruh
0.P.
164
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Posted - 2016.02.03 09:33:00 -
[60] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:Devadander wrote:I'm a god-awful pilot. But I'll pop in there tomorrow just to keep up on active pilots thoughts. Gunners always welcome :) I'll just kick my buddy back into his tank to kd pad some more and rise above the scrub known as duna. #kingscrub. <- that's me
Agreed, I'll take all the points I can get.
"Someone got his Burt hurt, better call Ernie"
"Warbarge is cooldown, please be later"
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