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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.08 22:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Below are two videos, intended for your education and knowledge, of Hotfix FoxFour changes to the Gallente and Caldari Assault roles. As you all probably know by now, the Gallente Assault received a RoF bonus to Assault Rifles while the Caldari Assault received a reduction to Rail Rifle kick/dispersion.
Compare the clips in these videos at your leisure as they have been provided. Feel free to comment with your thoughts.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
210
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Posted - 2015.10.08 22:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
I appreciate the video here, but I have a gripe with it: According to rattati's statements on recoil / dispersion no dropsuit ever comes anywhere NEAR close to their maximum recoil / dispersion values with a weapon while standing still and aimed down sights. I get what you're going for with the comparisons, but in my opinion a more accurate comparison would involve strafing left and right while shooting, it would better highlight the benefits that the dropsuit skill gives.
In short, the videos while commendable and useful (seriously, I'm not trying to be an ass or pedantic here this is good work that you went out of your way to do) are unfortunately slightly misrepresentative due to a flaw in the methodology.
Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
I bring the light.
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Lightning35 Delta514
The Warlords Legion
2
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Posted - 2015.10.08 22:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Finally I have been waiting all day for a vid.
CEO of T-W-L
YouTube- Lightning35 Delta514
Twitter- @LD3514
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.10.08 22:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nice video, Aeon.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.08 22:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:I appreciate the video here, but I have a gripe with it: According to rattati's statements on recoil / dispersion no dropsuit ever comes anywhere NEAR close to their maximum recoil / dispersion values with a weapon while standing still and aimed down sights. I get what you're going for with the comparisons, but in my opinion a more accurate comparison would involve strafing left and right while shooting, it would better highlight the benefits that the dropsuit skill gives.
Feel free to make some :)
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
210
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Posted - 2015.10.08 22:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:I appreciate the video here, but I have a gripe with it: According to rattati's statements on recoil / dispersion no dropsuit ever comes anywhere NEAR close to their maximum recoil / dispersion values with a weapon while standing still and aimed down sights. I get what you're going for with the comparisons, but in my opinion a more accurate comparison would involve strafing left and right while shooting, it would better highlight the benefits that the dropsuit skill gives. Feel free to make some :)
I edited my post, and I would happily make some if I had the hardware to do so. It's somewhat upsetting that you respond to people pointing out a flaw with your method or otherwise critiquing you so poorly aeon.
Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
I bring the light.
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.08 23:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:I appreciate the video here, but I have a gripe with it: According to rattati's statements on recoil / dispersion no dropsuit ever comes anywhere NEAR close to their maximum recoil / dispersion values with a weapon while standing still and aimed down sights. I get what you're going for with the comparisons, but in my opinion a more accurate comparison would involve strafing left and right while shooting, it would better highlight the benefits that the dropsuit skill gives. Feel free to make some :) I edited my post, and I would happily make some if I had the hardware to do so. It's somewhat upsetting that you respond to people pointing out a flaw with your method or otherwise critiquing you so poorly aeon.
 Are you serious, dude? That response was nothing but sincerity and politeness.
Listen, I work 40 hours a week, I have 15 credit hours in college, I have a dozen other things to do as a CPM rep, and I've got a freelance graphic design thing on the side. I had the time to make those videos today because I don't have homework due to the fact that it's mid-terms week and we had nothing but tests to do.
My bad for not being a super human and having more time to do what others are more than capable of doing themselves. Everyone's a critic until it's their turn to do something
EDIT: Here's the insincere and impolite version you thought you read: I'm not your maid. If you feel like I did something wrong you are more than welcome to do it yourself. If you want to come in here looking for an argument, we can argue, but don't act like I'm being a **** because I tried to encourage you to make the effort to contribute to the community and satisfy your own criticisms.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
210
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Posted - 2015.10.08 23:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:I appreciate the video here, but I have a gripe with it: According to rattati's statements on recoil / dispersion no dropsuit ever comes anywhere NEAR close to their maximum recoil / dispersion values with a weapon while standing still and aimed down sights. I get what you're going for with the comparisons, but in my opinion a more accurate comparison would involve strafing left and right while shooting, it would better highlight the benefits that the dropsuit skill gives. Feel free to make some :) I edited my post, and I would happily make some if I had the hardware to do so. It's somewhat upsetting that you respond to people pointing out a flaw with your method or otherwise critiquing you so poorly aeon. Are you serious, dude? That response was nothing but sincerity and politeness. Listen, I work 40 hours a week, I have 15 credit hours in college, I have a dozen other things to do as a CPM rep, and I've got a freelance graphic design thing on the side. I had the time to make those videos today because I don't have homework due to the fact that it's mid-terms week and we had nothing but tests to do. My bad for not being a super human and having more time to do what others are more than capable of doing themselves. Everyone's a critic until it's their turn to do something
So we're doing this again eh? You state "hey feedback is awesome" so someone gives you targeted and constructive feedback, you respond by being sarcastic / disingenuous, they tell you that it was uncalled for, you cry about things.
Why exactly are you on the CPM again? I mean almost every interaction you have with the community goes terribly which isn't something I think most look for in a community representative.
Is a "Hey, good point" too hard for you to manage, or do you perceive everything as a personal attack?
I'd HAPPILY make the videos: if I had the hardware to, unfortunately I don't and I'm not interested in purchasing it. I'm not sitting here shouting at you to re-do it (so sorry that you think I am), I'm pointing out that your video has a critical flaw to it.
Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
I bring the light.
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.08 23:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:I appreciate the video here, but I have a gripe with it: According to rattati's statements on recoil / dispersion no dropsuit ever comes anywhere NEAR close to their maximum recoil / dispersion values with a weapon while standing still and aimed down sights. I get what you're going for with the comparisons, but in my opinion a more accurate comparison would involve strafing left and right while shooting, it would better highlight the benefits that the dropsuit skill gives. Feel free to make some :) I edited my post, and I would happily make some if I had the hardware to do so. It's somewhat upsetting that you respond to people pointing out a flaw with your method or otherwise critiquing you so poorly aeon. Are you serious, dude? That response was nothing but sincerity and politeness. Listen, I work 40 hours a week, I have 15 credit hours in college, I have a dozen other things to do as a CPM rep, and I've got a freelance graphic design thing on the side. I had the time to make those videos today because I don't have homework due to the fact that it's mid-terms week and we had nothing but tests to do. My bad for not being a super human and having more time to do what others are more than capable of doing themselves. Everyone's a critic until it's their turn to do something So we're doing this again eh? You state "hey feedback is awesome" so someone gives you targeted and constructive feedback, you respond with sarcasm, they tell you that it was uncalled for, you cry about things. Why exactly are you on the CPM again? I mean almost every interaction you have with the community goes terribly. Is a "Hey, good point" too hard for you to manage, or do you perceive everything as a personal attack?
Or you could just take what I said for what it was and not try to bait an argument. Yeah, was a good point, sure, but there was nothing hostile, sarcastic, or aggressive in my reply. You assumed that, you made that choice, now we're "doing this again". It was never perceived as a personal attack until you orchestrated it to be - I was being 100% completely sincere and polite in my response. Take it or leave it.
EDIT: Thank you. Was actually having a somewhat half decent day up until now. Congratulations, you got exactly what you wanted. Peace out.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
210
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Posted - 2015.10.08 23:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Or you could just take what I said for what it was and not try to bait an argument. Yeah, was a good point, sure, but there was nothing hostile, sarcastic, or aggressive in my reply. You assumed that, you made that choice, now we're "doing this again". It was never perceived as a personal attack until you orchestrated it to be - I was being 100% completely sincere and polite in my response. Take it or leave it.
EDIT: Thank you. Was actually having a somewhat half decent day up until now. Congratulations, you got exactly what you wanted. Peace out.
Yep, good work Aeon, the videos were awesome but there's room for improvement. For the record I'm not interested in arguing with you over every little thing, however your responses to people often come off as sarcastic, provocative and insincere. I'm not expecting a random 'geeky' person (or whatever you want to label yourself as) to have politician levels of tact and social skills, however I believe there's lots of room for you to improve upon there, especially if you don't like having an argument every time you post something which isn't necessarily always your fault, but hey it takes two to argue.
Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
I bring the light.
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Ace Ravager
Horizons' Edge
147
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Posted - 2015.10.08 23:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
I hope this encourages people to use the right weapons with the right dropsuit and not say ARR on every suit
Come here for some Officer Gear
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
488
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Posted - 2015.10.09 00:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:I appreciate the video here, but I have a gripe with it: According to rattati's statements on recoil / dispersion no dropsuit ever comes anywhere NEAR close to their maximum recoil / dispersion values with a weapon while standing still and aimed down sights. I get what you're going for with the comparisons, but in my opinion a more accurate comparison would involve strafing left and right while shooting, it would better highlight the benefits that the dropsuit skill gives. Feel free to make some :) I edited my post, and I would happily make some if I had the hardware to do so. It's somewhat upsetting that you respond to people pointing out a flaw with your method or otherwise critiquing you so poorly aeon.
Wait...how was this response childish? I fail to understand. I'd record some video myself if I had the SP into (or Free SP to allocate to...) the Caldari Assault Suit. You brought up a valid point, and although Aeon's Response was quick and to the point, I can't read any hostility directly in this one...not all of us with capture cards who do test footage of mechanics have the time and/or resources (in-game or otherwise) to perfectly test every possible situation available...and nobody, not me, not the CPM, not even anyone at CCP play this game as a full-time job, I might devote a little too much time to this game for mechanics, but even my resources aren't unlimited...at least not on a Student's budget
I have to agree with the underlying reasoning, if not the overall sentiment of Aeon's further responses...you are in the wrong here for taking it as a negative response altogether, as the onus is on you when you infer meaning that is not directly stated (and where the author made ever effort to imply quite the opposite, albeit in a short time). Yes some of Aeon's posts and actions can come off as overbearing and/or sarcastic...but remember that it is near impossible to communicate tone or body language (which are huge parts of communication) through the internet, and while a Good Point would have been more tactful in that response...it was not needed.
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Four Horseman Tactical Agency
2
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Posted - 2015.10.09 00:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
It seems that the Gal assaults bonus is far more noticeable .
I've seen so many GK.O's today and now I see why .
Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 00:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:It seems that the Gal assaults bonus is far more noticeable .
I've seen so many GK.O's today and now I see why .
Right right. Thinking that we may need to increase the reduction to kick for the Cal Assault. We'll see what happens.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Four Horseman Tactical Agency
2
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Posted - 2015.10.09 00:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:It seems that the Gal assaults bonus is far more noticeable .
I've seen so many GK.O's today and now I see why . Right right. Thinking that we may need to increase the reduction to kick for the Cal Assault. We'll see what happens.
Your making me wish I wouldn't have respeced out of it now but it looks bland , no noticeable difference but since I'm not specked I'm not much help .
I like the direction in what you guys are doing for the most part , keep up the good work .
Your right , you'll have the feedback your looking for soon enough , might take until after the weekend when the volume usually rises .
Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.10.09 02:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:It seems that the Gal assaults bonus is far more noticeable .
I've seen so many GK.O's today and now I see why . Right right. Thinking that we may need to increase the reduction to kick for the Cal Assault. We'll see what happens.
Because reducing the GA Assault bonus is a non-option?
If we're being fair, I've seen more CA Assaults today than AM Assaults and MN Assaults. Perhaps I've misunderstood the goal here, but would it be wise to jump straight to "more buffs" for less-utilized Assaults as opposed to "less buffs" for GA Assault?
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.09 02:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:It seems that the Gal assaults bonus is far more noticeable .
I've seen so many GK.O's today and now I see why . Right right. Thinking that we may need to increase the reduction to kick for the Cal Assault. We'll see what happens.
Haven't had the chance to test, yet does Cal Assault kick reduction have a significant impact on the tactical sniper rifle kick? Or is that more a factor of movement sway, which isn't affected by the Cal bonus.
Movement sway reduction might an interesting bonus to look at to encourage more medium range mobile sniping.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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KGB Sleep
1
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Posted - 2015.10.09 03:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sniper sway is abysmal and I hope that is on the table for the next round of fixes. Rail Rifles still lack the desired stability I was hoping to see for an assault suit bonus. Thanks for the video.
Because beer, that's why.
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Avallo Kantor
904
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Posted - 2015.10.09 05:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hello, I appreciate your video, but I have one small suggestion: Could you please add a comment to indicate which weapon you are firing? I am certain I am not the only one who would benefit by having the type of rifle that is currently shooting being listed.
"Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 09:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:It seems that the Gal assaults bonus is far more noticeable .
I've seen so many GK.O's today and now I see why . Right right. Thinking that we may need to increase the reduction to kick for the Cal Assault. We'll see what happens. Because reducing the GA Assault bonus is a non-option? If we're being fair, I've seen more CA Assaults today than AM Assaults and MN Assaults. Perhaps I've misunderstood the goal here, but would it be wise to jump straight to "more buffs" for less-utilized Assaults as opposed to "less buffs" for GA Assault?
CA Assault and GA Assault have nothing to do with one another. CA Assaults having manageable recoil in that they can make use of their racial weaponry should not be determined by how OP or UP the GA Assault, or any suit, may be.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 09:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:It seems that the Gal assaults bonus is far more noticeable .
I've seen so many GK.O's today and now I see why . Right right. Thinking that we may need to increase the reduction to kick for the Cal Assault. We'll see what happens. Haven't had the chance to test, yet does Cal Assault kick reduction have a significant impact on the tactical sniper rifle kick? Or is that more a factor of movement sway, which isn't affected by the Cal bonus. Movement sway reduction might an interesting bonus to look at to encourage more medium range mobile sniping.
Sniper Rifles have 'Snap Back' so the amount of recoil is basically just a placebo effect. The reticle will return to the position it was at prior to pulling the trigger, so it could have so much recoil that it points skyward and it wouldn't really matter because it'd just return to it's previous position.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.10.09 09:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
While I appreciate the value of blowing up at Aeon, Malleus, his post was entirely innocent and polite. The hell, man?
Thanks for the vids, Aeon.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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ReGnYuM
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
3
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Posted - 2015.10.09 10:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:I appreciate the video here, but I have a gripe with it: According to rattati's statements on recoil / dispersion no dropsuit ever comes anywhere NEAR close to their maximum recoil / dispersion values with a weapon while standing still and aimed down sights. I get what you're going for with the comparisons, but in my opinion a more accurate comparison would involve strafing left and right while shooting, it would better highlight the benefits that the dropsuit skill gives. Feel free to make some :) I edited my post, and I would happily make some if I had the hardware to do so. It's somewhat upsetting that you respond to people pointing out a flaw with your method or otherwise critiquing you so poorly aeon. Are you serious, dude? That response was nothing but sincerity and politeness. Listen, I work 40 hours a week, I have 15 credit hours in college, I have a dozen other things to do as a CPM rep, and I've got a freelance graphic design thing on the side. I had the time to make those videos today because I don't have homework due to the fact that it's mid-terms week and we had nothing but tests to do. My bad for not being a super human and having more time to do what others are more than capable of doing themselves. Everyone's a critic until it's their turn to do something EDIT: Here's the insincere and impolite version you thought you read: I'm not your maid. If you feel like I did something wrong you are more than welcome to do it yourself. If you want to come in here looking for an argument, we can argue, but don't act like I'm being a **** because I tried to encourage you to make the effort to contribute to the community and satisfy your own criticisms.
Dude like WTF is your problem?
Malleus pointed out a legitimate problem with your video (one that should be really considered), and you just pissed on him for giving reputable feedback. Furthermore, is any actual adult here going cringe at your menacing work-load... no. It's called real life. |
NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
898
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Posted - 2015.10.09 12:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aeon Amadi great video..
I was wondering if you could do a video where you took a bunch of clones in a row and shot them all to see how many you could kill before the clip exhausts. Just wondering about applied damage at ranges.
They should all be lined up so you wouldn't have to aim.
The tests should be done with gal frontline and cal frontline as the test fire dummies.
Caldari Suit Videos Love Caldari - Since 6/29/2012
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 12:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:I appreciate the video here, but I have a gripe with it: According to rattati's statements on recoil / dispersion no dropsuit ever comes anywhere NEAR close to their maximum recoil / dispersion values with a weapon while standing still and aimed down sights. I get what you're going for with the comparisons, but in my opinion a more accurate comparison would involve strafing left and right while shooting, it would better highlight the benefits that the dropsuit skill gives. Feel free to make some :) I edited my post, and I would happily make some if I had the hardware to do so. It's somewhat upsetting that you respond to people pointing out a flaw with your method or otherwise critiquing you so poorly aeon. Are you serious, dude? That response was nothing but sincerity and politeness. Listen, I work 40 hours a week, I have 15 credit hours in college, I have a dozen other things to do as a CPM rep, and I've got a freelance graphic design thing on the side. I had the time to make those videos today because I don't have homework due to the fact that it's mid-terms week and we had nothing but tests to do. My bad for not being a super human and having more time to do what others are more than capable of doing themselves. Everyone's a critic until it's their turn to do something EDIT: Here's the insincere and impolite version you thought you read: I'm not your maid. If you feel like I did something wrong you are more than welcome to do it yourself. If you want to come in here looking for an argument, we can argue, but don't act like I'm being a **** because I tried to encourage you to make the effort to contribute to the community and satisfy your own criticisms. Dude like WTF is your problem? Malleus pointed out a legitimate problem with your video (one that should be really considered), and you just pissed on him for giving reputable feedback. Furthermore, is any actual adult here going cringe at your menacing work-load... no. It's called real life.
Edit: Let's try this again. There was no sarcasm or aggression in my response. As Arkena and Thaddeus stated, dude took it out of context. no animosity, no problems, no bitterness or snide remarks. Just told him without the long arduous explanation as to why to make his own videos. Yeah, menacing work loads are called real life. Finding solutions to your own criticisms, however, is called being an adult. Anyone can find flaws in someone's work but it takes a real pair of balls to get up and do something about it yourself.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 13:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Aeon Amadi great video..
I was wondering if you could do a video where you took a bunch of clones in a row and shot them all to see how many you could kill before the clip exhausts. Just wondering about applied damage at ranges.
They should all be lined up so you wouldn't have to aim.
The tests should be done with gal frontline and cal frontline as the test fire dummies.
When I have the time, sure.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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argel999
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
32
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Posted - 2015.10.09 13:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Below are two videos, intended for your education and knowledge, of Hotfix FoxFour changes to the Gallente and Caldari Assault roles. As you all probably know by now, the Gallente Assault received a RoF bonus to Assault Rifles while the Caldari Assault received a reduction to Rail Rifle kick/dispersion. Compare the clips in these videos at your leisure as they have been provided. Feel free to comment with your thoughts.
Thanks for the vid CPM, by other hand we should watch a Scr/AScr Comparition too, just to see the real nerf.
...SLAYER...
Sometimes Pubs are more difficul than PCs, yea Scotty trolls you with a 16 vs 10 and anybody into squad
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 13:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
argel999 wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Below are two videos, intended for your education and knowledge, of Hotfix FoxFour changes to the Gallente and Caldari Assault roles. As you all probably know by now, the Gallente Assault received a RoF bonus to Assault Rifles while the Caldari Assault received a reduction to Rail Rifle kick/dispersion. Compare the clips in these videos at your leisure as they have been provided. Feel free to comment with your thoughts. Thanks for the vid CPM, by other hand we should watch a Scr/AScr Comparition too, just to see the real nerf.
Hard to do now that the change has already been made. If I had thought about it before hand I would have recorded a video for comparison.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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argel999
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
32
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Posted - 2015.10.09 13:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Hard to do now that the change has already been made. If I had thought about it before hand I would have recorded a video for comparison.
Apreciated, ty.
...SLAYER...
Sometimes Pubs are more difficul than PCs, yea Scotty trolls you with a 16 vs 10 and anybody into squad
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.10.09 14:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:CA Assault and GA Assault have nothing to do with one another.
That's an interesting claim. Let's explore it a bit further. Assume for the sake of argument that the post-Foxfour GA Assault is the #1 killer of CA Assaults. If this assumption were true, could we claim that a relationship does not exist between the CA Assault and the GA Assault?
Aeon Amadi wrote:CA Assaults having manageable recoil in that they can make use of their racial weaponry should not be determined by how OP or UP the GA Assault, or any suit, may be.
If the Rail Rifle and Assault Rail Rifle have unmanageable recoil, how is it that they outsold all other Light Weapons prior to Foxfour? Is it the position of CPM, CCP or Aeon Amadi that CA Assaults can not make use of their racial weaponry on account of unmanageable recoil?
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 14:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:CA Assault and GA Assault have nothing to do with one another.
That's an interesting claim. Let's explore it a bit further. Assume for the sake of argument that the post-Foxfour GA Assault is the #1 killer of CA Assaults. If this assumption were true, could we claim that a relationship does not exist between the CA Assault and the GA Assault? Aeon Amadi wrote:CA Assaults having manageable recoil in that they can make use of their racial weaponry should not be determined by how OP or UP the GA Assault, or any suit, may be. If the Rail Rifle and Assault Rail Rifle have unmanageable recoil, how is it that they outsold all other Light Weapons prior to Foxfour? Is it the position of CPM, CCP or Aeon Amadi that CA Assaults can not make use of their racial weaponry on account of unmanageable recoil?
Hit up Kirk. Or Breakin.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.10.09 14:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Fact
For months following the Rail Rifle's introduction, it dominated both down range and from the hip in close quarters. Some time later, Rattati increased the hipfire kick of this long-range weapon to make it less effective in close quarters. To this day, the weapon remains more popular than any other Light Weapon (source, source screenshot).
Question
Should the long-range Rail Rifle excel in close quarters?
Aeon Amadi wrote:Hit up Kirk. Or Breakin.
Kirk and Breakin are not presently asserting questionable claims or openly proposing moar (potentially harmful) Assault buffs.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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CHEMTRAIL DEATH
CHACALES
19
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Posted - 2015.10.09 15:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Below are two videos, intended for your education and knowledge, of Hotfix FoxFour changes to the Gallente and Caldari Assault roles. As you all probably know by now, the Gallente Assault received a RoF bonus to Assault Rifles while the Caldari Assault received a reduction to Rail Rifle kick/dispersion. Compare the clips in these videos at your leisure as they have been provided. Feel free to comment with your thoughts.
Hi there. Could you say which rifle are you using in the right side, the 4th one please?. Thx.
La mejor informacion es , la que es gratis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vngbQHsQf9U
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.10.09 15:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
I always thought it was a strange request to have a kick reduction as the Caldari assault bonus.
There are two cases to consider, hipfire and ADS.
1)
In ADS, as can be seen in Aeon's video, the rail rifle suffers very little kick. This makes the weapon very well suited to it's purpose as the ultimate long range battle rifle. However, this means that the kick bonus has very little effect on ADS rail rifle fire, as the kick is so low to begin with.
2)
When hip fired, the rail rifle suffers considerable kick. This was (relatively) recently introduced by Rattati to balance rail rifles, which were dominating rifle balance. Rail rifles had extremely good hip fire accuracy, as well as good ADS accuracy. In order to balance the rifle's CQC ability, without effecting it's long range capability, Rattati implemented the increased hip fire kick. This left the rail rifle perfectly capable of hipfire, without being superior to shorter range rifles. The new Cal assault bonus helps reduce this hipfire kick, making the rail rifle more effective at CQC, and partially undermining Rattati's prior CQC balancing move. Prior to hotfix foxfour, assault rail rifles were clearly the most popular rifle, though scrambler rifles were very effective on the Amarr assault.
In summary:
I think the new Cal assault bonus is strange, because it gives Caldari assaults a buff to close range combat. However, this is not necessarily a bad thing. As an assault suit it will always be useful to have short range combat capability, despite being in a suit that specialises in long range combat. A rifle assault is meant to be a versatile combat unit. Most of the assault bonuses work to reduce the drawbacks of their racial rifle (heat reduction, clip increase). If you think of a drawback to the rail rifle to be it's close range ability, is it so bad that the bonus reduces this drawback? From the video it appears to be only a modest bonus. Certainly not enough to make the rail rifle amazing at close range combat.
Clearly the Gallente rof bonus is better than the Caldari kick bonus. However, you could argue that the Caldari reload bonus is better than the Gallente dispersion bonus. I don't see a fundamental flaw here. Number-wise, we may find that +15% rof is too much, but we will need to wait and see how it pans out. It's interesting to see that the Gal bonus reduces the accuracy a bit, perhaps balancing out the large dps increase. Though this is barely noticeable on the breach or burst, possibly a problem? |
4lbert Wesker
Standby Retaliation
524
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Posted - 2015.10.09 15:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
Caldari Assault skill doesn't affect ARR?
WESKER S.T.A.R.S. is not my corporation!
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 15:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:FactFor months following the Rail Rifle's introduction, it dominated both down range and from the hip in close quarters. Some time later, Rattati increased the hipfire kick of this long-range weapon to make it less effective in close quarters. To this day, the weapon remains more popular than any other Light Weapon ( source, source screenshot). QuestionShould the long-range Rail Rifle excel in close quarters? Aeon Amadi wrote:Hit up Kirk. Or Breakin. Kirk and Breakin are not presently asserting questionable claims or openly proposing moar (potentially harmful) Assault buffs.
E-mail 'em, or hit me up about this at a later time, in a different thread.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.10.09 16:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:FactFor months following the Rail Rifle's introduction, it dominated both down range and from the hip in close quarters. Some time later, Rattati increased the hipfire kick of this long-range weapon to make it less effective in close quarters. To this day, the weapon remains more popular than any other Light Weapon ( source, source screenshot). QuestionShould the long-range Rail Rifle excel in close quarters? Aeon Amadi wrote:Hit up Kirk. Or Breakin. Kirk and Breakin are not presently asserting questionable claims or openly proposing moar (potentially harmful) Assault buffs. E-mail 'em, or hit me up about this at a later time, in a different thread.
What is wrong with challenging questionable claims and potentially harmful changes when and where they are being asserted and proposed?
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 16:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:FactFor months following the Rail Rifle's introduction, it dominated both down range and from the hip in close quarters. Some time later, Rattati increased the hipfire kick of this long-range weapon to make it less effective in close quarters. To this day, the weapon remains more popular than any other Light Weapon ( source, source screenshot). QuestionShould the long-range Rail Rifle excel in close quarters? Aeon Amadi wrote:Hit up Kirk. Or Breakin. Kirk and Breakin are not presently asserting questionable claims or openly proposing moar (potentially harmful) Assault buffs. E-mail 'em, or hit me up about this at a later time, in a different thread. What is wrong with challenging questionable claims and potentially harmful changes when and where they are being asserted and proposed?
Because I know where this leads and I simply don't have the patience or energy for it right this second in a thread that was mostly about some videos to show the comparisons of current bonuses. Sorry.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.10.09 17:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:It seems that the Gal assaults bonus is far more noticeable .
I've seen so many GK.O's today and now I see why . Right right. Thinking that we may need to increase the reduction to kick for the Cal Assault. We'll see what happens.
The bonus does seem to work quite well for hip fire. I think if you reduced the kick too much you will start to lose the distinction of the rail rifle as good at long range, but less good at short range. Something that Rattati was keen to implement when he introduced the large rail hip fire kick.
The rail rifle has such low ADS kick, I don't think any amount of kick reduction is going to produce a noticeable effect in ADS.
I would advise against increasing the kick reduction. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.10.09 17:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
What is wrong with challenging questionable claims and potentially harmful changes when and where they are being asserted and proposed?
Because I know where this leads and I simply don't have the patience or energy for it right this second in a thread that was mostly about some videos to show the comparisons of current bonuses. Sorry.
Scrutiny needn't necessarily lead to bickering. There's a possibility that through challenging questionable claims, we might find better overall, mutual understanding. Consider the following examples:
Questionable Claim: [Video] Gal Assault Bonus - Less Control
Challenge: Recoil builds the longer fire is sustained; initial AR recoil is negligible. Would the same "lack of control" demonstrated in the video be observed with pulse fire?
Questionable Claim: [Video] Cal Assault Bonus - Negligible benefit in ADS
Challenge: While this very well may be the case, is it safe to claim "negligible benefit" without comparative pewpewing at actual targets at varying ranges?
Questionable Claim: CA Assault and GA Assault have nothing to do with one another.
Challenge: Is it safe to claim that the population and performance of one has no affect whatsoever on the population and performance of the other?
Questionable Claim: Sniper Rifles have 'Snap Back' so the amount of recoil is basically just a placebo effect ... they could have so much recoil that it points skyward and it wouldn't really matter.
Challenge: Assume two snipers are pewpewing at a moving target down range. One wields a tactical sniper rifle with zero recoil. The other wields a tactical sniper rifle with so much recoil that his weapon points skyward after each shot. Which sniper has a higher likelihood of placing back-to-back shots on target? Assuming perfect accuracy, which of the two snipers would be first to empty his magazine on target? Is it safe to claim that different degrees of sniper rifle recoil do not and cannot matter?
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 18:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
What is wrong with challenging questionable claims and potentially harmful changes when and where they are being asserted and proposed?
Because I know where this leads and I simply don't have the patience or energy for it right this second in a thread that was mostly about some videos to show the comparisons of current bonuses. Sorry. Scrutiny needn't necessarily lead to bickering. There's a possibility that through challenging questionable claims, we might find better overall, mutual understanding. Consider the following examples:
Questionable Claim: [Video] Gal Assault Bonus - Less Control Challenge: Recoil builds the longer fire is sustained; initial AR recoil is negligible. Would the same "lack of control" demonstrated in the video be observed with pulse fire?
Questionable Claim: [Video] Cal Assault Bonus - Negligible benefit in ADS Challenge: While this very well may be the case, is it safe to claim "negligible benefit" without comparative pewpewing at actual targets at varying ranges?
Questionable Claim: CA Assault and GA Assault have nothing to do with one another. Challenge: Is it safe to claim that the population and performance of one has no affect whatsoever on the population and performance of the other?
Questionable Claim: Sniper Rifles have 'Snap Back' so the amount of recoil is basically just a placebo effect ... they could have so much recoil that it points skyward and it wouldn't really matter. Challenge: Assume two snipers are pewpewing at a moving target downrange. One wields a tactical sniper rifle with zero recoil. The other wields a tactical sniper rifle that points skyward after each shot. Which sniper has a higher likelihood of placing back-to-back shots on target? Assuming perfect accuracy, which of the two snipers would be first to empty his magazine on target?
Technically all weapons have snap-back so pulse firing will always result in an optimal experience. Assault Rifles, for instance, had a video in which a player was using a modded controller to pulse-fire at the same RoF as it would be if he had just held down the trigger. The result was no difference in RoF, but the weapon never received muzzle climb, and stayed on target. You can try this out with any weapon in the game, just hold down the trigger, be wary of where you were aiming before you started firing, and watch where the reticle goes whenever you let go of the trigger.
With Sniper Rifles, the snap-back and recoil are based on fire-rate. The Tactical Sniper Rifle, having a much faster fire rate, returns to it's prior position faster than the vanilla sniper rifle and therefore can land shots in rapid succession. If we homogenized the vanilla sniper rifle's RoF with the Tactical's, you'd see similar performance.
The snap-back is something I really hate in Dust 514 because it is easy to abuse and makes recoil fundamentally useless unless you just like holding down the trigger. However, because of this, might as well just assume that all players pulse-fire their weapons. with that assumption the rail rifle becomes an outlier due to the fact that it must be charged up first, and therefore is much more difficult to pulse fire and remain accurate.
I understand the desire to keep it as a long-range weapon. With the consideration that the charge-up prevents pulse-firing to some extent, the only way to allow the Cal Assault to fire accurately long enough to make kills is to reduce the recoil and allow them to fire on targets long enough to apply lethal damage application. That's the basis for the recoil reduction.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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DEATH THE KlD
Imperfect - Bastards
470
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Posted - 2015.10.09 18:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:It seems that the Gal assaults bonus is far more noticeable .
I've seen so many GK.O's today and now I see why . Right right. Thinking that we may need to increase the reduction to kick for the Cal Assault. We'll see what happens.
Agreed, duvolle feels amazing though so does Magsec but the kick for cal wasn't enough in my opinion
CEO of Imperfect Bastards and NF
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zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
820
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Posted - 2015.10.09 18:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
Why no hipfire for AR? Fail. I can see the increased kick, especially for TAR. Also see that Burst AR had no kick at all. Did you notice the higher ROF with Burst? Just wondering because the bonus doesn't affect fire interval for it. Did you notice that TAR fires faster without modded controller on?
I can't tell any difference at all with the RRs...,
RR still goes nuts hipfiring after 8-10 rounds. ARR both look exactly the same.
I win
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.10.09 19:16:00 -
[44] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
What is wrong with challenging questionable claims and potentially harmful changes when and where they are being asserted and proposed?
Because I know where this leads and I simply don't have the patience or energy for it right this second in a thread that was mostly about some videos to show the comparisons of current bonuses. Sorry. Scrutiny needn't necessarily lead to bickering. There's a possibility that through challenging questionable claims, we might find better overall, mutual understanding. Consider the following examples:
Questionable Claim: [Video] Gal Assault Bonus - Less Control Challenge: Recoil builds the longer fire is sustained; initial AR recoil is negligible. Would the same "lack of control" demonstrated in the video be observed with pulse fire?
Questionable Claim: [Video] Cal Assault Bonus - Negligible benefit in ADS Challenge: While this very well may be the case, is it safe to claim "negligible benefit" without comparative pewpewing at actual targets at varying ranges?
Questionable Claim: CA Assault and GA Assault have nothing to do with one another. Challenge: Is it safe to claim that the population and performance of one has no affect whatsoever on the population and performance of the other?
Questionable Claim: Sniper Rifles have 'Snap Back' so the amount of recoil is basically just a placebo effect ... they could have so much recoil that it points skyward and it wouldn't really matter. Challenge: Assume two snipers are pewpewing at a moving target downrange. One wields a tactical sniper rifle with zero recoil. The other wields a tactical sniper rifle that points skyward after each shot. Which sniper has a higher likelihood of placing back-to-back shots on target? Assuming perfect accuracy, which of the two snipers would be first to empty his magazine on target? Technically all weapons have snap-back so pulse firing will always result in an optimal experience. Assault Rifles, for instance, had a video in which a player was using a modded controller to pulse-fire at the same RoF as it would be if he had just held down the trigger. The result was no difference in RoF, but the weapon never received muzzle climb, and stayed on target. You can try this out with any weapon in the game, just hold down the trigger, be wary of where you were aiming before you started firing, and watch where the reticle goes whenever you let go of the trigger. 1. With Sniper Rifles, the snap-back and recoil are based on fire-rate. The Tactical Sniper Rifle, having a much faster fire rate, returns to it's prior position faster than the vanilla sniper rifle and therefore can land shots in rapid succession. If we homogenized the vanilla sniper rifle's RoF with the Tactical's, you'd see similar performance. The snap-back is something I really hate in Dust 514 because it is easy to abuse and makes recoil fundamentally useless unless you just like holding down the trigger. However, because of this, might as well just assume that all players pulse-fire their weapons. with that assumption the rail rifle becomes an outlier due to the fact that it must be charged up first, and therefore is much more difficult to pulse fire and remain accurate. 2. I understand the desire to keep it as a long-range weapon. With the consideration that the charge-up prevents pulse-firing to some extent, the only way to allow the Cal Assault to fire accurately long enough to make kills is to reduce the recoil and allow them to fire on targets long enough to apply lethal damage application. That's the basis for the recoil reduction.
1. I think I understand what you're saying now. The "recenter speeds" of Sniper Rifles are derived from their respective fire intervals. I didn't realize that; thanks for the info. Still, I wonder if less recoil might help Tac SR performance; seems like it'd be easier to "re-aquire" moving targets if they remained in frame.
2. I don't know that I can agree with this one. The RR and ARR were killing quite nicely long before Foxfour came around. As a frequent user of these weapons, I don't believe it a fair characterization to suggest that their users have experienced difficulty applying lethal damage. These are really good guns, Aeon, and their popularity has persisted even through nerfs. I personally think it'd be a bad move balance-wise to make them better from the hip, even if that benefit were limited to a single frame.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 19:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
What is wrong with challenging questionable claims and potentially harmful changes when and where they are being asserted and proposed?
Because I know where this leads and I simply don't have the patience or energy for it right this second in a thread that was mostly about some videos to show the comparisons of current bonuses. Sorry. Scrutiny needn't necessarily lead to bickering. There's a possibility that through challenging questionable claims, we might find better overall, mutual understanding. Consider the following examples:
Questionable Claim: [Video] Gal Assault Bonus - Less Control Challenge: Recoil builds the longer fire is sustained; initial AR recoil is negligible. Would the same "lack of control" demonstrated in the video be observed with pulse fire?
Questionable Claim: [Video] Cal Assault Bonus - Negligible benefit in ADS Challenge: While this very well may be the case, is it safe to claim "negligible benefit" without comparative pewpewing at actual targets at varying ranges?
Questionable Claim: CA Assault and GA Assault have nothing to do with one another. Challenge: Is it safe to claim that the population and performance of one has no affect whatsoever on the population and performance of the other?
Questionable Claim: Sniper Rifles have 'Snap Back' so the amount of recoil is basically just a placebo effect ... they could have so much recoil that it points skyward and it wouldn't really matter. Challenge: Assume two snipers are pewpewing at a moving target downrange. One wields a tactical sniper rifle with zero recoil. The other wields a tactical sniper rifle that points skyward after each shot. Which sniper has a higher likelihood of placing back-to-back shots on target? Assuming perfect accuracy, which of the two snipers would be first to empty his magazine on target? Technically all weapons have snap-back so pulse firing will always result in an optimal experience. Assault Rifles, for instance, had a video in which a player was using a modded controller to pulse-fire at the same RoF as it would be if he had just held down the trigger. The result was no difference in RoF, but the weapon never received muzzle climb, and stayed on target. You can try this out with any weapon in the game, just hold down the trigger, be wary of where you were aiming before you started firing, and watch where the reticle goes whenever you let go of the trigger. 1. With Sniper Rifles, the snap-back and recoil are based on fire-rate. The Tactical Sniper Rifle, having a much faster fire rate, returns to it's prior position faster than the vanilla sniper rifle and therefore can land shots in rapid succession. If we homogenized the vanilla sniper rifle's RoF with the Tactical's, you'd see similar performance. The snap-back is something I really hate in Dust 514 because it is easy to abuse and makes recoil fundamentally useless unless you just like holding down the trigger. However, because of this, might as well just assume that all players pulse-fire their weapons. with that assumption the rail rifle becomes an outlier due to the fact that it must be charged up first, and therefore is much more difficult to pulse fire and remain accurate. 2. I understand the desire to keep it as a long-range weapon. With the consideration that the charge-up prevents pulse-firing to some extent, the only way to allow the Cal Assault to fire accurately long enough to make kills is to reduce the recoil and allow them to fire on targets long enough to apply lethal damage application. That's the basis for the recoil reduction. 1. I think I understand what you're saying now. The "recenter speeds" of Sniper Rifles are derived from their respective fire intervals. I didn't realize that; thanks for the info. Still, I wonder if less recoil might help Tac SR performance; seems like it'd be easier to "re-aquire" moving targets if they remained in frame. 2. I don't know that I can agree with this one. The RR and ARR were killing quite nicely long before Foxfour came around. As a frequent user of these weapons, I don't believe it a fair characterization to suggest that their users have experienced difficulty applying lethal damage. These are really good guns, Aeon, and their popularity has persisted even through nerfs. I personally think it'd be a bad move balance-wise to make them better from the hip, even if that benefit were limited to a single frame.
Wonder if we record data on range with which the most kills occur. might be a deciding factor.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
820
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Posted - 2015.10.09 20:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
What is wrong with challenging questionable claims and potentially harmful changes when and where they are being asserted and proposed?
Because I know where this leads and I simply don't have the patience or energy for it right this second in a thread that was mostly about some videos to show the comparisons of current bonuses. Sorry. Scrutiny needn't necessarily lead to bickering. There's a possibility that through challenging questionable claims, we might find better overall, mutual understanding. Consider the following examples:
Questionable Claim: [Video] Gal Assault Bonus - Less Control Challenge: Recoil builds the longer fire is sustained; initial AR recoil is negligible. Would the same "lack of control" demonstrated in the video be observed with pulse fire?
Questionable Claim: [Video] Cal Assault Bonus - Negligible benefit in ADS Challenge: While this very well may be the case, is it safe to claim "negligible benefit" without comparative pewpewing at actual targets at varying ranges?
Questionable Claim: CA Assault and GA Assault have nothing to do with one another. Challenge: Is it safe to claim that the population and performance of one has no affect whatsoever on the population and performance of the other?
Questionable Claim: Sniper Rifles have 'Snap Back' so the amount of recoil is basically just a placebo effect ... they could have so much recoil that it points skyward and it wouldn't really matter. Challenge: Assume two snipers are pewpewing at a moving target downrange. One wields a tactical sniper rifle with zero recoil. The other wields a tactical sniper rifle that points skyward after each shot. Which sniper has a higher likelihood of placing back-to-back shots on target? Assuming perfect accuracy, which of the two snipers would be first to empty his magazine on target? Technically all weapons have snap-back so pulse firing will always result in an optimal experience. Assault Rifles, for instance, had a video in which a player was using a modded controller to pulse-fire at the same RoF as it would be if he had just held down the trigger. The result was no difference in RoF, but the weapon never received muzzle climb, and stayed on target. You can try this out with any weapon in the game, just hold down the trigger, be wary of where you were aiming before you started firing, and watch where the reticle goes whenever you let go of the trigger. With Sniper Rifles, the snap-back and recoil are based on fire-rate. The Tactical Sniper Rifle, having a much faster fire rate, returns to it's prior position faster than the vanilla sniper rifle and therefore can land shots in rapid succession. If we homogenized the vanilla sniper rifle's RoF with the Tactical's, you'd see similar performance. The snap-back is something I really hate in Dust 514 because it is easy to abuse and makes recoil fundamentally useless unless you just like holding down the trigger. However, because of this, might as well just assume that all players pulse-fire their weapons. with that assumption the rail rifle becomes an outlier due to the fact that it must be charged up first, and therefore is much more difficult to pulse fire and remain accurate. I understand the desire to keep it as a long-range weapon. With the consideration that the charge-up prevents pulse-firing to some extent, the only way to allow the Cal Assault to fire accurately long enough to make kills is to reduce the recoil and allow them to fire on targets long enough to apply lethal damage application. That's the basis for the recoil reduction.
I hadn't thought of that but now that you mention it I've already experienced what your talking about. The ARR before had such long range that you could fire it outside of other rifles' range and so the inability to tap/burst it for accuracy didn't matter. But now it's in the same neighborhood as more accurate rifles that can keep snapping back and restarting kick/spread growth. I didn't know what UPness I was feeling but I think that was it.
A Cal Assault with ARR against Amarr Assault with ASCR will get facer@ped now because the Cal Ass has to engage in basically the same range as ASCR, but the Amarr can tap/burst while the Caldari has to hold the button down while kick/spread builds up (the bonus seeming to have negligible affect on this).
My early impression is that the ARR is garbage now, and the RR isn't at all better hipfiring. The latter is mitigated somewhat by the SCR being nerf hammered. That is, the SCR has a similar handicap as the RR now, though it's balanced between hipfire and ADS more on SCR. As for the ARR though, the TAR, CR, and ASCR are all better options in its range. More damage and more accuracy from all of them.
Looks to me like TAR, CR, and ASCR will dominate the meta for a while. (Range still rules in Dust.) ARR and SCR have suddenly gone the way of the dodo.
I win
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 20:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:
I hadn't thought of that but now that you mention it I've already experienced what your talking about. The ARR before had such long range that you could fire it outside of other rifles' range and so the inability to tap/burst it for accuracy didn't matter. But now it's in the same neighborhood as more accurate rifles that can keep snapping back and restarting kick/spread growth. I didn't know what UPness I was feeling but I think that was it.
A Cal Assault with ARR against Amarr Assault with ASCR will get facer@ped now because the Cal Ass has to engage in basically the same range as ASCR, but the Amarr can tap/burst while the Caldari has to hold the button down while kick/spread builds up (the bonus seeming to have negligible affect on this).
My early impression is that the ARR is garbage now, and the RR isn't at all better hipfiring. The latter is mitigated somewhat by the SCR being nerf hammered. That is, the SCR has a similar handicap as the RR now, though it's balanced between hipfire and ADS more on SCR. As for the ARR though, the TAR, CR, and ASCR are all better options in its range. More damage and more accuracy from all of them.
Looks to me like TAR, CR, and ASCR will dominate the meta for a while. (Range still rules in Dust.) ARR and SCR have suddenly gone the way of the dodo.
If the TAR becomes a thing, I'll be happy. It's the second least used rifle in the entire line-up.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Four Horseman Tactical Agency
2
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Posted - 2015.10.09 20:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:
Looks to me like TAR, CR, and ASCR will dominate the meta for a while. (Range still rules in Dust.) ARR and SCR have suddenly gone the way of the dodo.
It seems like you haven't gone against a GK.O with a breach yet .
That AR was always my favorite but now seeing it on a Gal assault , it totally turns me off how OP it is .
Maybe the developers need to start conversing with the community about how to and what needs balancing and stop looking at the numbers and listening to whom ever they have been listening to because things sound good until implemented and then unnecessary back tracking is involved to change the changes causing more time and effort .
If we can put the bias aside and have constructive discussions , I believe that would change the environment and the nature of the game , perhaps bringing things more in line without the constant nerf and buff cycle .
People always want to bring up numbers and graphs but that doesn't translate to what happens on the ground for the most part and it seems like the developers always seem to backtrack to clean up what was changed for what was supposedly to be the better .
Yes you will see a lot of TAC AR's and Breaches in the kill feed for sure .
Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 21:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:zzZaXxx wrote:
Looks to me like TAR, CR, and ASCR will dominate the meta for a while. (Range still rules in Dust.) ARR and SCR have suddenly gone the way of the dodo.
It seems like you haven't gone against a GK.O with a breach yet . That AR was always my favorite but now seeing it on a Gal assault , it totally turns me off how OP it is . Maybe the developers need to start conversing with the community about how to and what needs balancing and stop looking at the numbers and listening to whom ever they have been listening to because things sound good until implemented and then unnecessary back tracking is involved to change the changes causing more time and effort . If we can put the bias aside and have constructive discussions , I believe that would change the environment and the nature of the game , perhaps bringing things more in line without the constant nerf and buff cycle . People always want to bring up numbers and graphs but that doesn't translate to what happens on the ground for the most part and it seems like the developers always seem to backtrack to clean up what was changed for what was supposedly to be the better . Yes you will see a lot of TAC AR's and Breaches in the kill feed for sure .
Feedback is only half the story and the Pareto Principle usually applies. That being said, if the numbers coincide with the community feedback than it would stand to reason that backtrack would be necessary. Won't know until some time has passed and the spike in fitting diversity evens out some.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
5
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Posted - 2015.10.09 21:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:I appreciate the video here, but I have a gripe with it: According to rattati's statements on recoil / dispersion no dropsuit ever comes anywhere NEAR close to their maximum recoil / dispersion values with a weapon while standing still and aimed down sights. I get what you're going for with the comparisons, but in my opinion a more accurate comparison would involve strafing left and right while shooting, it would better highlight the benefits that the dropsuit skill gives. Feel free to make some :) I edited my post, and I would happily make some if I had the hardware to do so. It's somewhat upsetting that you respond to people pointing out a flaw with your method or otherwise critiquing you so poorly aeon.
You presumed his intentions instead of asking.
He responded poorly to your incorrect assessment of his response.
Both of you could have prevented the unpleasantness, but in reality...You 'started' it by misunderstanding him and then choosing after that to criticize him because of it.
I'm irrelevant, feel free to ignore me. :)
No matter what. FAmily
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zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
820
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Posted - 2015.10.09 21:45:00 -
[51] - Quote
The RR bonus needs to be -25% recoil and -25% recoil growth to make a difference.
I win
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
5
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Posted - 2015.10.09 21:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:FactFor months following the Rail Rifle's introduction, it dominated both down range and from the hip in close quarters. Some time later, Rattati increased the hipfire kick of this long-range weapon to make it less effective in close quarters. To this day, the weapon remains more popular than any other Light Weapon ( source, source screenshot). QuestionShould the long-range Rail Rifle excel in close quarters? Aeon Amadi wrote:Hit up Kirk. Or Breakin. Kirk and Breakin are not presently asserting questionable claims or openly proposing moar (potentially harmful) Assault buffs.
I don't see any sources backing up the supposed fact that the RR dominated close quarters.
On the contrary the combat rifle dominated in close quarters and was more widely used by the PC community because of it's close quarters prowess.
I'm irrelevant, feel free to ignore me. :)
No matter what. FAmily
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.10.09 21:48:00 -
[53] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:
I don't see any sources backing up the supposed fact that the RR dominated close quarters.
Oh, OK. They must've nerfed its hipfire for no reason. Oopsies. Carry on.
PS: How 'bout that GalLogi permascan? Great work there, Zatara. Maybe when it's fixed down the road, we can point back to now and claim that it wasn't really a problem.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
5
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Posted - 2015.10.09 21:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:
I don't see any sources backing up the supposed fact that the RR dominated close quarters.
Oh, OK. They must've nerfed its hipfire for no reason. Oopsies. Carry on.
There seems to be a problem here.
Ah!
The idea that the RR did not dominate cqc like the Combat Rifle
The idea the RR was too good in cqc
These ideas are not mutually exclusive. 
I don't contest that a nerf was appropriate because it's lack of hipfire allowed it to have very little drawback while offering the longer range.
I'm irrelevant, feel free to ignore me. :)
No matter what. FAmily
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
5
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Posted - 2015.10.09 21:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
I upset so I want to change the subject.
There there.
I'm irrelevant, feel free to ignore me. :)
No matter what. FAmily
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.10.09 22:01:00 -
[56] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
PS: How 'bout that GalLogi permascan? Great work there, Zatara. Maybe when it's fixed down the road, we can point back to now and claim that it wasn't really a problem.
You're adorable. 
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Vyuru
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
286
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Posted - 2015.10.09 22:10:00 -
[57] - Quote
Long time RR user tossing in my 2 isk.
Been using my Quafe RR alot since the patch hit. With Cal Ass at lvl 3, and RR Prof at lvl 5. Using a scope, the kick is reduced by a ton. I can stay almost completely on target for almost an entire clip (3/4 or so). Have not tried the ARR yet, I have dabbled with the RR and no scope, still bucks, better than it had been. Not enough chances to use it that way to really comment.
The following is directed at people who are complaining about the RR kick.
Stop being a whiney little kid.
Read that again. And again until it sinks in.
The RR is meant to be used at range, with ADS. The new update has made this a perfectly viable weapon in that regards.
Kindly refrain from coming to the forums whining and crying that the gun does not work when used in a way that it was not meant to be used. Well you can, but I won't have any sympathy for you.
And for those who may not have known:
RR - more kick when hip fired, less when ADS.
ARR - more kick when ADS, less when hip fired.
Caldari Assaults are awesome now with the changes to shields and the RR.
Gallente Assaults might be a touch OP... need more time fighting them and with the suit though to be sure. A squad of Gallente Assaults is actually a thing to be feared now. I think I'm more terrified of them than I am of a squad of heavies right now. |
Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
210
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Posted - 2015.10.09 22:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:I appreciate the video here, but I have a gripe with it: According to rattati's statements on recoil / dispersion no dropsuit ever comes anywhere NEAR close to their maximum recoil / dispersion values with a weapon while standing still and aimed down sights. I get what you're going for with the comparisons, but in my opinion a more accurate comparison would involve strafing left and right while shooting, it would better highlight the benefits that the dropsuit skill gives. Feel free to make some :) I edited my post, and I would happily make some if I had the hardware to do so. It's somewhat upsetting that you respond to people pointing out a flaw with your method or otherwise critiquing you so poorly aeon. You presumed his intentions instead of asking. He responded poorly to your incorrect assessment of his response. Both of you could have prevented the unpleasantness, but in reality...You 'started' it by misunderstanding him and then choosing after that to criticize him because of it.
Yeah, it's not disingenuous at all to respond to constructive feedback with: "Hey if you have a problem with my method, go drop a bunch of money on hardware and learn a skillset you may not currently possess, otherwise just shut up and don't give any feedback regardless of my stated desire for it I really only just post these videos so people can kiss my butt about them" (sorry, I'm ascribing motive here and that's wrong, I guess we'll just have to guess what aeon wants because of the mixed messages he sends), maybe we're just supposed to fellate lord aeon amadi any time he condescends from his cloud of being-way-too-busy-to-respond-to-constructive-feedback-in-a-reasonable-manner to 'consult' with (aka ignore) us plebians.
Yep, I totally started it by expecting to have my points considered on their merit alone, I forgot that I'd be talking to the ever unreasonable aeon amadi.
Thank you for leaping in to white knight for the damsel in distress that is Aeon, long after the initial argument was ended in a semi-reasonable manner Zatara, it becomes increasingly clear that Aeon needs others to do his arguing for him.
Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
I bring the light.
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 22:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jesus ******* christ, fine, I won't upload anymore videos if thats what i tt takes to end this petty foolishness. This is ridiculous.
MY BAD YO - DIDN'T MEAN TO START A RIOT BY SHOWING PEOPLE THE EFFECTS OF THE BONUSES
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
5
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Posted - 2015.10.09 23:10:00 -
[60] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:
Yeah, it's not disingenuous at all to respond to constructive feedback with: "Hey if you have a problem with my method, go drop a bunch of money on hardware and learn a skillset you may not currently possess, otherwise just shut up and don't give any feedback regardless of my stated desire for it I really only just post these videos so people can kiss my butt about them" (sorry, I'm ascribing motive here and that's wrong, I guess we'll just have to guess what aeon wants because of the mixed messages he sends), maybe we're just supposed to fellate lord aeon amadi any time he condescends from his cloud of being-way-too-busy-to-respond-to-constructive-feedback-in-a-reasonable-manner to 'consult' with (aka ignore) us plebians.
Yep, I totally started it by expecting to have my points considered on their merit alone, I forgot that I'd be talking to the ever unreasonable aeon amadi.
Thank you for leaping in to white knight for the damsel in distress that is Aeon, long after the initial argument was ended in a semi-reasonable manner Zatara, it becomes increasingly clear that Aeon needs others to do his arguing for him.
My response wasn't anything more than a passerby reading a rando thread and seeing some dude choose to interpret a reply incorrectly and respond to it in a less than ideal manner.
I suggested both of you played a part in the unnecessary exchange and conveyed that both sides could have avoided the misunderstanding.
I wasn't aware he knew you didn't possess the required hardware...or that inherently to make a comparison you would have to make your own video at all.
But here we are again. In a word, eisegesis.
Quote: I guess we'll just have to guess what aeon wants because of the mixed messages he sends
Or if we're confused about something we could ask for clarification...we don't even have to go with the best option of choosing to give people the benefit of the doubt. 
You seem to have quite a bone to pick with Aeon.
I'm irrelevant, feel free to ignore me. :)
No matter what. FAmily
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.10.09 23:16:00 -
[61] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Or if we're confused about something we could ask for clarification...we don't even have to go with the best option of choosing to give people the benefit of the doubt. You seem to have quite a bone to pick with Aeon.
Lot of people have a bone to pick with me. Incidentally it's always those people that do about nothing other than criticize the work of others and then backtrack saying it's "feedback" despite feedback having never been asked for. Reminds me of those dudes who walk around with rifles/carbines slung over shoulder prancing about open carry laws when they're really just wanting to pick a fight with the cops. Or maybe those guys who feel the need to start giving a street musician musical advice.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
210
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Posted - 2015.10.10 00:21:00 -
[62] - Quote
Quote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Incidentally it's always those people that do about nothing other than criticize the work of others and then backtrack saying it's "feedback" despite feedback having never been asked for. Aeon Amadi wrote:Feel free to comment with your thoughts.
Maybe you just didn't want to hear what was said because it wasn't sycophantic butt-kissing.
Maybe you should start your threads by asking devs to lock them, or by being honest and telling people you don't want them to comment at all. It'd be a lot more honest to say "These threads are a safe-zone for aeon and people aren't allowed to say anything that might hurt his feelings here" (and aeon has very thin skin, so everything hurts his feelings).
Zatara Rought wrote:or that inherently to make a comparison you would have to make your own video at all.
Right, zatara, how exactly would I make a comparison detailing the effect of strafing and the bonuses the assault suits provide without resorting to a video?
A bunch of math and formulas that I don't have access to without reverse engineering game code (or lol asking ccp to hand it over)? Which would be absolutely incomprehensible to the layman? Don't avoid this question, I'd really like your answer as to how I'm supposed to do a comparison here? Do I just ask people to imagine "There's 25% less hipfire dispersion and a 15% rate of fire bonus on the gal, and there's 25% less kick and 25% faster reload on the cal" - I'm sure that'd be wonderfully informative.
Really, are you thinking through what you're saying as you're saying it? Or is this just a fatal-absolution hugbox thread now?
Weep not poor children, For life is this way, Murdering beauty and passion.
I bring the light.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
5
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Posted - 2015.10.10 00:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:or that inherently to make a comparison you would have to make your own video at all. Right, zatara, how exactly would I make a comparison detailing the effect of strafing and the bonuses the assault suits provide without resorting to a video? A bunch of math and formulas that I don't have access to without reverse engineering game code (or lol asking ccp to hand it over)? Which would be absolutely incomprehensible to the layman? Don't avoid this question, I'd really like your answer as to how I'm supposed to do a comparison here? Do I just ask people to imagine "There's 25% less hipfire dispersion and a 15% rate of fire bonus on the gal, and there's 25% less kick and 25% faster reload on the cal" - I'm sure that'd be wonderfully informative. Really, are you thinking through what you're saying as you're saying it? Or is this just a fatal-absolution hugbox thread now?
I won't insult you for misunderstanding what I wrote.
What I was intimating was that you could ask Kirk or anyone else with recording equipment to team up with you to make a video.
The rest of your comments appear to be a tad unkind. 
I don't think that's necessary if that is the case.
Edit: As for the FA hugbox.
I responded to an earlier comment you made about white knighting, this seems to be a similar line of thought.
Is there some reason you feel the need to write comments that, inadvertently or not, ascribe a subtext of motivation to my posts?
I don't know how much clearer I can be than this:
I don't need someone to have fulfilled any sort of checklist or requirements to warrant a response.
You could have been in FA and Aeon could have been joe shmoe...I still would have taken the time to post what immediately came to mind upon reading the beginning of that exchange when you misinterpreted Aeon's words and decided you were going to be upset about it and ascribe fault to him.
I'm irrelevant, feel free to ignore me. :)
No matter what. FAmily
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