DUST Search - [CPM Feedback] Racial Shield Stats

All Channels

General Discussions

[CPM Feedback] Racial Shield Stats

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.09.14 00:26:00 - [1] - Quote Preface and Explanation: Quote: In the Shield versus Armor debate, one primary attribute that must be considered when comparing the two tanking styles is that Armor has base values whereas Shield Modules primarily work on percentages. This means that whenever a player fits a Complex Armor Repairer they receive a 9.38hp/s repair rate to their armor no matter what suit they are running. Comparatively, if a player were to fit a Complex Shield Recharger, they would receive a dynamically changing value based on whatever their suit's base shield recharge is. A Caldari Scout receives a benefit of 25.88hp/s Shield Recharge Rate from the module, whereas a Minmatar Commando would receive a benefit of 9.32hp/s. The dynamically changing values are due solely to the way shield stats on suits are calculated, based on the suit's role (Assault, Commando, etc). This can make balancing difficult, as a change to a module that would make one suit viable may not work on another suit. To bring resolution to this, a proposal was made in the fashion of Racial Based Shield Stats. Meaning that instead of role based shield stat values, each suit would have the same recharge and delay values based on their racial make and build. A Shield Recharger on a Caldari Scout would offer the same benefit as a Shield Recharger on a Caldari Sentinel, Commando, Assault, etc. Theoretically, these values would reflect racial combat philosophy, with Caldari being the primary shield tankers and Amarr being the least viable with it. This is one of many proposals on how to increase the viability of Shield Tanking and should not be considered the sole and only proposal or plan. This thread is designed to discuss the vices and virtues of this proposal and intentionally does not supply numbers as they are subject for debate. Thus, this thread exists for that very purpose. Please post below, your feedback and concerns in relation to the proposal of Racial Based Shield Stats, as well as your ideal base numbers and questions. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.09.14 00:43:00 - [2] - Quote ok I'll bite so what exactly would become the norm for the suits from light to heavy? would all the stats reflect which current model? or what proposed stats would be in place? in the case of light frames having better recharge stats they need this due to their already low hp stats meaning giving them medium frame delays and recharge rates would be a severe direct nerf while stats that mirror the cal heavies would considerably make it OP even with lower recharge rates while a set value of about 3-4 seconds seems to be the best fit for all suits if this model were to be put in place the cal sent would still take a big hit as it can only do so much to offset recharge delays no matter how you put it one suit seems to take a hit while another benefits from it and in most cases unfairly so the main concern is that all shields stats and values would have to be rework not just simply leveling out all delay stats across the board, this would also considerable nerf armor light suits and possibly even be a direct buff to armor heavy suits depending on what values were set the current model that's in place works well enough I don't think messing with it so much would fix anything if anything it causes a whole lot more problems then it solves if something were to be done to shiled recharge and delay stats then base shiled stats and shiled extenders also have to be considered so that the trade off comes with reasonable compensation whether that be more health on suits that are directly nerfed or less health on those that are directly buffed by these stats click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 8	Posted - 2015.09.14 00:51:00 - [3] - Quote Let me get this straight, you want to change shield mods to a static number to buff shield suits? So, a Shield Recharger oates of giving 35% bonus, it would give, I dunno, a 30hp/s bonus? And along with this, you want to give all suits the same regen? I can see how it helps shield suits, but you're also saying that it'll make armor suits benefit less from them. However, if that have the same regen, wouldn't they benefit just as much from the same module as a shield suit? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding everything due to being tired? *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
XxBlazikenxX Ancient Exiles. 2	Posted - 2015.09.14 00:56:00 - [4] - Quote What about min scouts that depend entirely on shields as well? AVERT YOUR EYES!
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 4	Posted - 2015.09.14 01:02:00 - [5] - Quote I don't see the point in this change and I don't see how this would make shield suits more viable. If we want to talk balance, let's balance the mods first. Why is it that a ferroscale plate requires less cpu and pg and yields more hp than a shield extender? The biggest issue with shield tanking is not the shield suits itself but the counter is too effective. An amarr or galente assault can don 700hp of armor (with no movement penalty) and stack double and 3x damage mods. Now, apply that to a scrambler rifle that already does 20% dmg to shields. If a caldari assault wants to keep up with the damage output, they lose their shield tank. They then may have to put on armor plates which defeats the purpose of shield tanking. Solution: Allow damage mods in the high and low slots or introduce ROF mods in the low slots. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.09.14 01:26:00 - [6] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Let me get this straight, you want to change shield mods to a static number to buff shield suits? So, a Shield Recharger oates of giving 35% bonus, it would give, I dunno, a 30hp/s bonus? And along with this, you want to give all suits the same regen? I can see how it helps shield suits, but you're also saying that it'll make armor suits benefit less from them. However, if that have the same regen, wouldn't they benefit just as much from the same module as a shield suit? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding everything due to being tired? Probably the latter. Shield Recharger would still give the 45% bonus (complex). The modules wouldn't change. However, the suits themselves would. Delving a bit further into this, if we look at say, the Minmatar Line-up we see this: Recharge Delay Depleted delay Scout: 40hp/s ----- 4s ----- 5s Assault: 25hp/s ----- 6s ----- 8s Logistics: 20hp/s ----- 5s ----- 6s Commando: 18hp/s ----- 6s ----- 10s Sentinel: 20hp/s ----- 4s ----- 6s It is all over the place but seems to gravitate toward a rough area in different places. (The Caldari are worse, with Sentinels, Commandos, and Scouts showing massive discrepancies in the value differences, btw). Under this change we would see all of the Minmatar suits reflecting the same values, meaning that some would be buffed and others would be nerfed, but they would all reflect the same benefits and negations from shield modules, with primary differences based on their base shield HP and fitting slots, accordingly (much like Armor). So if we were to say, just go with the average of all of these values (again, just as an example), it'd look like this: Recharge Delay Depleted delay Minmatar: 25hp/s ----- 5s ----- 7s So, all of them would receive a buff in recharge except for the Scout. All but the Sentinel and Scout would receive a buff, or stay the same, with Recharge Delay. Depleted delay the Assault and Commando get a buff. This standardization then allows us to balance the percentage based modules much easier and we can adjust the suits in other areas. The Minmatar Scout may receive additional base shield HP to compensate for the drop in recharge capability, for example, or adjust the entire racial shield standardization to 30hp/s, 4s, and 6s, respectively. What changes is that if this were to happen with the above values, you would see Shield Rechargers offering a much greater benefit to (almost) the entire race's line-up of suits as opposed to dynamically benefiting Scouts the most and Commandos the least. Likewise, Shield Regulators which would also have dynamic values based on the role would apply neatly to the entire racial line. Shield Extender penalties would apply similarly as well. Ultimately this would lessen confusion, add more diversity to fittings, provide an easier balancing spectrum, and result in more time spent working on other things. It would however mean some pretty crazy changes that might be wonky in the short-term that would invariably need to be adjusted. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.14 01:40:00 - [7] - Quote My proposal was to make caldari shield delays 1/3 mirroring the calsent. Minmatar would be 3/5. My other proposal would be adding the extender variants me and the sh*tpost twins cobbled together. And aeon is correct. This should not be considered the sole proposal. Let's get real ideas on the table. First up let's analyze what happened when Armor was buffed. Armor plates had about 85 base HP at proto in beta. They also had 10% move penalty. The movement penalty got shanked first. Later around 1.4 ish armor plate HP got buffed to what it is now. We got ferros and reactives. Reps increased by just shy of 100% overall. But at the same time dropsuit shields ate a nerf. Both on the extender penalty and if I recall correctly, the dropsuit delays were tweaked to be longer. So we got the heavy buff to one and a rather substantial nerf to the other simultaneously. So buffing shields to match armor is unlikely to result in caldari master race. Let's see what you can cook up. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 4	Posted - 2015.09.14 02:00:00 - [8] - Quote I'm trying to understand why the focus is on buffing shield regen lol. Shield regen right now is sooo not the issue. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
StoneSmasher Drugga Corrosive Synergy No Context 133	Posted - 2015.09.14 02:27:00 - [9] - Quote If standardizing is the route you want to go, I suggest doing so across suit types similar to how movement speed is done. Make caldari better across all suit types, min and gal average, and Amarr the worst. Then buff extenders. There is no evil greater than hyperbole.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.14 02:52:00 - [10] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'm trying to understand why the focus is on buffing shield regen lol. Shield regen right now is sooo not the issue. Delay. Shield regen rates mean jack all if you can't survive long enough for it to start. HP is another issue. But my philosophy there is: the closer you come to armor level HP, the more you must accept armor-like rep rates. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.14 02:56:00 - [11] - Quote I think that shield modules should also be set on static values. This would lead to PG/CPU adjustments being needed to hurt dual tanking ability but it would work out better in the long run. Keeping them % based means that every suit has to have its shield numbers rebalanced around any new mods leaving a big mess that just goes in a circle. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
XxBlazikenxX Ancient Exiles. 2	Posted - 2015.09.14 03:00:00 - [12] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: What about min scouts that depend entirely on shields as well? Bump AVERT YOUR EYES!
axis alpha Neural Union 951	Posted - 2015.09.14 03:21:00 - [13] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I don't see the point in this change and I don't see how this would make shield suits more viable. If we want to talk balance, let's balance the mods first. Why is it that a ferroscale plate requires less cpu and pg and yields more hp than a shield extender? The biggest issue with shield tanking is not the shield suits itself but the counter is too effective. An amarr or galente assault can don 700hp of armor (with no movement penalty) and stack double and 3x damage mods. Now, apply that to a scrambler rifle that already does 20% dmg to shields. If a caldari assault wants to keep up with the damage output, they lose their shield tank. They then may have to put on armor plates which defeats the purpose of shield tanking. Solution: Allow damage mods in the high and low slots or introduce ROF mods in the low slots. He is right, you need to leave the regen and delay alone with all suits. I think at this point in the game it shoud be left alone. It's perfectly fine. Hullaballo and howdy doo! Musty prawns, and Timbucktu. Yeltsibee and hibbertyhoo Kick 'em in the dishpan. Hoo hoo hoo!
Starlight Burner Black Screen Adaptation. 510	Posted - 2015.09.14 03:48:00 - [14] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'm trying to understand why the focus is on buffing shield regen lol. Shield regen right now is sooo not the issue. Still do not understand the focus on Regen. It's not the issue with shields. CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.09.14 06:08:00 - [15] - Quote Standardizing obviously makes module balancing a bit easier. - Standardizing Recharge Rates does not make sense. Escpecially for scouts. Scouts absolutley depend on shields no matter what race because low slots are needed for damps. High recharge rates is needed to make up for low HP, and an over all comprimise between the classes means the scouts give up what is easily recovered for the medium and heavy classes of suits, (more hp modules or armor if need be). Different shield suits could use a specific recharge rate buff, especially the Caldari logi. 25hp per second /4 sec. delay / 5 sec depleted is pretty bad for a low HP shield specialist suit. It doesnt have the 5-4 to make up for its low shield stats from teh previous build. But care needs to be taken to ensure that they are not OP without equipment. Standardizing Recharge Delays: Requires the most comprimise, but is the better of the two. Caldari sent has demonstrated that even though the recharge can get pretty low, they are still managable to take down. They are the best solo heavy suit not because HP, but because you can regen fast enough without depending on a Rep tool. As long as shields dont have one, they need low regen delays to compete. Just need to take care that the ck.0 assaults aren't hitting fraction of a second recharge delays. Stats needed to be put up, numbers crunched, coffe drank, and nerd tears must flow. But i would endorse recharge delays over standard recharge rates. Also, a buf to the cal logi shield stats. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations 3	Posted - 2015.09.14 06:47:00 - [16] - Quote Buff extenders a bit (and keep reevaluating/tweaking). Add Shield rep tool. Add shield resistance modules (e.g. blaster invulnerability field, and one rainbow resistance mod that resists all damage types but for a much smaller percent). Do the same for armor. Re-evaluate. Best PvE idea ever!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Four Horseman Tactical Agency 2	Posted - 2015.09.14 07:07:00 - [17] - Quote I like the fact that this isn't getting side tracked , if you take bits and pieces from all of your idea's I'm pretty sure that you have a nice starting point for a middle ground . I like the way the discussion is going but I just hope that whatever you do , you change the shield regen and delayed times of the Caldari Commando , that suit is horrible when it comes to shield times but I guess you could say that about all commando's . I use shield mods on mine and with the times and the slow movement sometimes it's just better to use the assault and just save the commando for strictly sniping , getting close to anyone gets you eaten like the dots on a Pac-Man game . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.09.14 07:17:00 - [18] - Quote Thread is becoming derailed a bit. I'll re-iterate that this thread is seeking feedback in relation to the topic at hand, not ways to nerf armor, introducing damage/rof mods, etc. Stay on topic, please. Now, as far as the overall stats go, again, it is up for debate. We can standardize shield delays and leave recharge rates out of the mix or vice versa.Trying to balance the suits in relation to the modules has proven to be difficult as opposed to balancing modules in relation to suits. The latter cannot happen when this inconsistent dynamic of modules affecting suits differently is being applied much in the same way that nerfing Range Amplifiers to combat Caldari Scout passive scan abuse negatively impacted... Well, everything else. To address the issue brought up with Scouts needing high regen, I'm curious as to why that is. Your HP is so low that you'll often die before making use of the regen anyway and Scouts' natural low profile and EWAR focus should definitely help to reduce the likeliness of incoming damage as it is. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.14 07:18:00 - [19] - Quote If we look at Caldari suits, the only problem is the commando. The sentinel has the same recharge rate as the assault (30 hp/s), and shorter delays. Whereas the commando has only 20hp/s and longer delays. I suggest buffing commando recharge and delay (all races) to the level of assaults. It's silly that the Cal sent recharges at 30 whereas the commando is only at 20. I don't support changing other suits. There's no reason at all to nerf scout shield regen. To help shield tanking in general I suggest buffing shield rechargers and energisers. Or nerfing armour hp mods a bit. (P.S. Off topic, but nerfing range extenders was more about preventing logis abusing passive scans.)
dzizur Nos Nothi 969	Posted - 2015.09.14 07:22:00 - [20] - Quote How about bringing shield in line with armor by changing armor modules so they also are percentage based, instead of doing changes to shields? Doesn't it seem wrong to anyone that an armor plate on a scout gives you the same ammount of hp that a plate on a heavy frame? But I know, people would cry that their enemies have to shoot them "only for 2 seconds!"... I'm really tired with king HP, and now you want to buff shields instead of nerfing armor. I'm a sad panda :P

Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.09.14 07:33:00 - [21] - Quote dzizur wrote: How about bringing shield in line with armor by changing armor modules so they also are percentage based, instead of doing changes to shields? Doesn't it seem wrong to anyone that an armor plate on a scout gives you the same ammount of hp that a plate on a heavy frame? But I know, people would cry that their enemies have to shoot them "only for 2 seconds!"... I'm really tired with king HP, and now you want to buff shields instead of nerfing armor. I'm a sad panda :P I don't think we need to -reduce- the TTK any more than has been done with the recent advent of balance changes (weapon buffs) in unison with warbarge damage applications and officer gear proliferation. Nerfing armor would only serve to further reduce the TTK and as such the standpoint of buffing shields to competitive levels is the optimal solution. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 405	Posted - 2015.09.14 07:37:00 - [22] - Quote Base Racial Delay Stats are one of the most important things penalizing shield tanking right now. As for standardizing them across the race...I'll have to think about that further, but in general (and specifically on shield suits) the delays are too high. I think though that even if shield delay is standardized by race...my initial feeling is to have regen rate standardized by role... I don't yet have numbers to back up this feeling. Breakin Stuff wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'm trying to understand why the focus is on buffing shield regen lol. Shield regen right now is sooo not the issue. Delay. Shield regen rates mean jack all if you can't survive long enough for it to start. HP is another issue. But my philosophy there is: the closer you come to armor level HP, the more you must accept armor-like rep rates. As much as I sort of agree here Breakin...there are a number of support options available for armor that are not available for shields...and some of them can be used locally on most suits, Repair tools may require someone else to operate, but Nanohives do not, provided the suit has Equipment slots and the bandwidth to operate it. Repair tools and Repair Hives/Triage Hives grant armor regeneration greater than shield regeneration in both raw HP/s, while also not being affected by a delay mechanic. I realize that on a 1v1 scale, sentinels do not have these options, and I'm not saying they need to go away, be nerfed, or even replicated 1 for 1 on the shield side, but saying or implying that armor has universally low regeneration isn't entirely accurate (nor is it accurate to say that armor can have universally high regen) Breakin Stuff wrote: My proposal was to make caldari shield delays 1/3 mirroring the calsent. Minmatar would be 3/5. My other proposal would be adding the extender variants me and the shtpost twins cobbled together. I like those initial numbers for the regen delays (as far as regen delays)...and I also like those other extender variants...and I don't think that having those regen delays with those extenders wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing Breakin Stuff wrote:* First up let's analyze what happened when Armor was buffed. Armor plates had about 85 base HP at proto in beta. They also had 10% move penalty. The movement penalty got shanked first. Later around 1.4 ish armor plate HP got buffed to what it is now. We got ferros and reactives. Reps increased by just shy of 100% overall. But at the same time dropsuit shields ate a nerf. Both on the extender penalty and if I recall correctly, the dropsuit delays were tweaked to be longer. So we got the heavy buff to one and a rather substantial nerf to the other simultaneously. So buffing shields to match armor is unlikely to result in caldari master race. Let's see what you can cook up. It seems that shields are still getting punished for the sins of the Cal Logi xD From a numbers perspective, I do not like Ferroscales...they provide a massive benefit, for almost no fitting cost with no penalty...if shield extenders had no penalty, then I'd only have issues with the very low fitting cost. deezy dabest wrote: I think that shield modules should also be set on static values. This would lead to PG/CPU adjustments being needed to hurt dual tanking ability but it would work out better in the long run. Keeping them % based means that every suit has to have its shield numbers rebalanced around any new mods leaving a big mess that just goes in a circle. I don't think that shield mods would need to be changed to flat amounts (although yes, you are right that it would probably make things easier to balance) provided that there is a standardized reasoning behind base shield regen rates. As for the PG/CPU adjustments, those I think would need to happen Armor Side, Currently Armor Modules have fairly significantly lower fitting costs compared to shield modules. Solving potential issues with dual tanking should probably come in the form of finally re-examining armor module fitting costs...but that's an issue for another thread. Fitting costs and benefits provided overall need to be looked at for tanking modules...as do penalties to ensure that they are actually doing the job they are intended to. Ok guess I have another spreadsheet to work on xD...and got to work on my existing Armor/Shield spreadsheet to be readable... Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Aeon Amadi 12	Posted - 2015.09.14 07:48:00 - [23] - Quote Few things that I spitballed previously were completely removing shield delays except for Depleted Delay, meaning your shields could recharge through damage. The drawback was that hit detection isn't favorable sometimes and it would be a hard-nerf to some less effective weaponry that couldn't powerhouse through shields fast enough (see non-headshot sniper rifles). Initial math proved... Interesting, as you had about the same TTK on paper with a Caldari Sentinel running all energizers as a Caldari Sentinel running all Extenders. Would come down to preference and, of course, how well your enemy could hit you. Long story short though that proposal is a far extreme. Some other things for consideration (though not in this thread, please, I'm just throwing them out there so we can get it out of our systems and move on) were offloading some of the armor that Caldari have and putting it in the Shield HP pool and vice versa with Gallente. Removal of penalties toward Shield Extenders. Removal of penalties to Energizers and offering up increased fitting cost (PG) instead. Buffing generally all shield modules... etc. But none of these really address any core issues. They're band-aids. Can play with numbers until the end of days but if the root problem isn't addressed, in this case a really weirdly designed shield stat system, it'll fester. Just my opinion though, take it for what you will. Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.14 07:50:00 - [24] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: deezy dabest wrote: I think that shield modules should also be set on static values. This would lead to PG/CPU adjustments being needed to hurt dual tanking ability but it would work out better in the long run. Keeping them % based means that every suit has to have its shield numbers rebalanced around any new mods leaving a big mess that just goes in a circle. I don't think that shield mods would need to be changed to flat amounts (although yes, you are right that it would probably make things easier to balance) provided that there is a standardized reasoning behind base shield regen rates. As for the PG/CPU adjustments, those I think would need to happen Armor Side, Currently Armor Modules have fairly significantly lower fitting costs compared to shield modules. Solving potential issues with dual tanking should probably come in the form of finally re-examining armor module fitting costs...but that's an issue for another thread. Fitting costs and benefits provided overall need to be looked at for tanking modules...as do penalties to ensure that they are actually doing the job they are intended to. Ok guess I have another spreadsheet to work on xD...and got to work on my existing Armor/Shield spreadsheet to be readable... After thinking about it a little more I think they could be made flat modules and would need minimal adjustments thanks to drawbacks already being in place. I just feel like this % based setup makes things easier to balance and makes things more understandable for newbies. How many of those players coming into the game do you think have any clue have any idea what a 2% bonus to a 9% bonus applied to 100 hp even is? This makes skill selection and fitting very messy. Obviously those are example numbers. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.14 08:12:00 - [25] - Quote Just to correct some history. Yes armour was buffed a lot, and shields were nerfed a little. But since then armour plates were nerfed and shields were buffed. I've said what I think about base stats, just buff commando base shield regen. Leave the rest. If we are talking about shield tanking in general, allow me to repost my thoughts on this from a past thread. Hopefully this should explain my reservations about some ideas posted, and provide some ideas: "My thoughts on shield tanking? Assuming it should be buffed (a little), I think it should be done in a way that maintains the design distinction from armour tanking, i.e. lower hp, higher regen, cover based. Here are some options. Buffing base regen stats is bad, as it is too draconian. Suits are already sufficiently differentiated by base stats. We should have a reasonable amount of freedom to fit how we like. Also we need to encourage the fitting of shield regen mods to promote variety and discourage dual tanking or hp stacking. If base stats are too good there is no incentive to fit regen mods. The exception is commandos, who should have their shield regen stats buffed to sentinel levels. Buffing regulators - Possibly a good idea. However, a delay is necessary as having to take cover to regen is central to the design of shield tanking. Currently it is possible to get very low shield delays by fitting complex regulators. I feel that mlt, std and adv regulators need a buff however. Buffing extenders. I don't support this. Tanking style should be based upon which regen mods you fit. Stacking hp is a boring meta. Encouraging extender stacking works against the design of shield tanking as a high regen style. It also encourages dual tanking and reduces the efficiency of fitting damage mods, or other high slot modules. Buffing energisers / rechargers. This would be a good option in my opinion. These are good modules to build a distinctly shield based tank. They have good synergy with extenders and regulators, so discourage dual tanking. They also compete in high slots with extenders and damage mods, so they discourage hp stacking, however they need to be a valuable module to be worthwhile. They also exemplify the design goals of shield tanking, providing high regen at the cost of hp stacking, but still requiring the user to find cover. I feel the current potential regen is not enough for the sacrifices you have to make compared to armour, especially the fact you have to take cover and wait to regen. Another good (alternative) option would be to nerf armour. I suggest reducing the hp of all plates (including reactive and ferroscale) by 10%. Hp stacking has been the dominant meta for pretty much all of dust. We are moving in the right direction, however hp is still king. Reducing the value of hp mods will in turn increase the value of other mods. Ofcourse, by reducing armour hp, shield tanking automatically becomes a more viable alternative."
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.14 08:47:00 - [26] - Quote Can I also say I don't think there is any need to change the fundamental way in which shield tanking works. It's been proven to work the way it does fine. A good example is the Caldari scout back in 1.8. This suit was often used very effectively as a slayer. I big part of this success is the comparatively good shield stats. Delays and regen worked just how it does now. Caldari assaults now can get considerably better shield stats than a scout. I'm not saying the shield/armour balance can't be improved. I'm just saying it can be achieved with simple buffs/nerfs. A complete redesign is unnecessary.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.14 09:50:00 - [27] - Quote Nice idea, delays on cal suits really need to be lowered. What would be your number proposal for all cal suits? Also, the shield extenders need to cost less pg/cpu, it would buff caldari suits in either HP or whatever you couldn't fit before. Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER ! - Sequal Rise
dzizur Nos Nothi 969	Posted - 2015.09.14 10:45:00 - [28] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: dzizur wrote: How about bringing shield in line with armor by changing armor modules so they also are percentage based, instead of doing changes to shields? Doesn't it seem wrong to anyone that an armor plate on a scout gives you the same ammount of hp that a plate on a heavy frame? But I know, people would cry that their enemies have to shoot them "only for 2 seconds!"... I'm really tired with king HP, and now you want to buff shields instead of nerfing armor. I'm a sad panda :P I don't think we need to -reduce- the TTK any more than has been done with the recent advent of balance changes (weapon buffs) in unison with warbarge damage applications and officer gear proliferation. Nerfing armor would only serve to further reduce the TTK and as such the standpoint of buffing shields to competitive levels is the optimal solution. Well, we could always remove warbarge damage , ban officer from pubs and take another look at AA (all which IMO would make the TTK higher) by the way removing the P2W aspect and officer stomp on newbs.. ;) As for shield vs armor parity - someone mentioned equipment (rep tool and nano) which help the armor meta I want to point out the flux grenade - it's essentialy a doomsday device for pure shield tankers - IMO it's going to work this way we need a armor counterpart (maybe call it igniting grenade or whatever, drains your armor to some low ammount, but doesn't touch shields (f.e. 5% of max armor HP)
Dont-be-a-D1CK Dead Man's Game 231	Posted - 2015.09.14 11:17:00 - [29] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: If we look at Caldari suits, the only problem is the commando. The sentinel has the same recharge rate as the assault (30 hp/s), and shorter delays. Whereas the commando has only 20hp/s and longer delays. I suggest buffing commando recharge and delay (all races) to the level of assaults. It's silly that the Cal sent recharges at 30 whereas the commando is only at 20. I don't support changing other suits. There's no reason at all to nerf scout shield regen. To help shield tanking in general I suggest buffing shield rechargers and energisers. Or nerfing armour hp mods a bit. (P.S. Off topic, but nerfing range extenders was more about preventing logis abusing passive scans.) ^^ 30hp/s on Heavy Frames, 35hp/s on Medium, 40hp/s on Light, starting value. Shield deplted delay's balanced equally among them, Commando=Sentinel, Assault=Logi, so Commando and Assault get a buff by having Shield stats closer to the others. Shield Modules - Regulators, Rechargers could use a buff imo, but that may not be needed if you buff base stats ^^ Random note: I was surprised to see Cal Heavies given 400+armour, and a pure Shield version would be interesting Looking to fuel blood, sweat and precious tear production ?? Apply to Corp "anything that moves"
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.14 12:18:00 - [30] - Quote Dont-be-a-D1CK wrote: 30hp/s on Heavy Frames, 35hp/s on Medium, 40hp/s on Light, starting value. Shield deplted delay's balanced equally among them, Commando=Sentinel, Assault=Logi, so Commando and Assault get a buff by having Shield stats closer to the others. Shield Modules - Regulators, Rechargers could use a buff imo, but that may not be needed if you buff base stats ^^ Random note: I was surprised to see Cal Heavies given 400+armour, and a pure Shield version would be interesting I like it. Are these suggestions for Caldari suits or a baseline to be modified racially? So long as people don't feel their base regen is high enough and give up on rechargers in favour of all hp. I wouldn't put Caldari commando delays equal to Caldari sentinels though. I was thinking more just buffing them to assault levels. I suspect the Caldari sentinel was given extremely low delays (especially depleted) to allow it to function with an HMG, but without the ability to be supported by a rep tool like an armour sentinel. I'd be hesitant to buff Caldari commando delays as much as that, or to nerf the sentinel.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.