Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
405
   |
Posted - 2015.09.14 07:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Base Racial Delay Stats are one of the most important things penalizing shield tanking right now. As for standardizing them across the race...I'll have to think about that further, but in general (and specifically on shield suits) the delays are too high. I think though that even if shield delay is standardized by race...my initial feeling is to have regen rate standardized by role... I don't yet have numbers to back up this feeling.
Breakin Stuff wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I'm trying to understand why the focus is on buffing shield regen lol. Shield regen right now is sooo not the issue. Delay. Shield regen rates mean jack all if you can't survive long enough for it to start. HP is another issue. But my philosophy there is: the closer you come to armor level HP, the more you must accept armor-like rep rates.
As much as I sort of agree here Breakin...there are a number of support options available for armor that are not available for shields...and some of them can be used locally on most suits, Repair tools may require someone else to operate, but Nanohives do not, provided the suit has Equipment slots and the bandwidth to operate it. Repair tools and Repair Hives/Triage Hives grant armor regeneration greater than shield regeneration in both raw HP/s, while also not being affected by a delay mechanic. I realize that on a 1v1 scale, sentinels do not have these options, and I'm not saying they need to go away, be nerfed, or even replicated 1 for 1 on the shield side, but saying or implying that armor has universally low regeneration isn't entirely accurate (nor is it accurate to say that armor can have universally high regen)
Breakin Stuff wrote:My proposal was to make caldari shield delays 1/3 mirroring the calsent. Minmatar would be 3/5.
My other proposal would be adding the extender variants me and the sh*tpost twins cobbled together.
I like those initial numbers for the regen delays (as far as regen delays)...and I also like those other extender variants...and I don't think that having those regen delays with those extenders wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing
Breakin Stuff wrote:
First up let's analyze what happened when Armor was buffed. Armor plates had about 85 base HP at proto in beta. They also had 10% move penalty.
The movement penalty got shanked first.
Later around 1.4 ish armor plate HP got buffed to what it is now. We got ferros and reactives. Reps increased by just shy of 100% overall.
But at the same time dropsuit shields ate a nerf. Both on the extender penalty and if I recall correctly, the dropsuit delays were tweaked to be longer.
So we got the heavy buff to one and a rather substantial nerf to the other simultaneously.
So buffing shields to match armor is unlikely to result in caldari master race.
Let's see what you can cook up.
It seems that shields are still getting punished for the sins of the Cal Logi xD
From a numbers perspective, I do not like Ferroscales...they provide a massive benefit, for almost no fitting cost with no penalty...if shield extenders had no penalty, then I'd only have issues with the very low fitting cost.
deezy dabest wrote:I think that shield modules should also be set on static values. This would lead to PG/CPU adjustments being needed to hurt dual tanking ability but it would work out better in the long run.
Keeping them % based means that every suit has to have its shield numbers rebalanced around any new mods leaving a big mess that just goes in a circle.
I don't think that shield mods would need to be changed to flat amounts (although yes, you are right that it would probably make things easier to balance) provided that there is a standardized reasoning behind base shield regen rates. As for the PG/CPU adjustments, those I think would need to happen Armor Side, Currently Armor Modules have fairly significantly lower fitting costs compared to shield modules. Solving potential issues with dual tanking should probably come in the form of finally re-examining armor module fitting costs...but that's an issue for another thread.
Fitting costs and benefits provided overall need to be looked at for tanking modules...as do penalties to ensure that they are actually doing the job they are intended to. Ok guess I have another spreadsheet to work on xD...and got to work on my existing Armor/Shield spreadsheet to be readable...
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
|
Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
408
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 19:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
My initial thoughts on numbers that could be used for Racial Delay, role based rates are:
Delays (Race: Delay/DRD)
- Caldari: 3/1
- Minmatar: 3/3
- Gallente: 5/5
- Amarr: 7/5
Recharge Rates (Role: Rate)
- Sentinel/Heavy: 30 HP/s
- Commando: 35 HP/s
- Medium/Assault: 40 HP/s
- Logistics: 45 HP/s
- Light/Scout: 50 HP/s
I'll start trying to make a spreadsheet to try to demonstrate how these would work...but I think regeneration is only part of the equation that needs looked at for shields to become a real contender for viability.
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
|