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Vegetation Monster G0DS AM0NG MEN The Empire of New Eden 310	Posted - 2015.08.06 14:13:00 - [1] - Quote Would you guys disagree with buffing with standard variant sniper rifle damage? For example Ishukone Sniper would go from 250 damage to 280 damage? Everything else remains the same. B Double O T Y
Raven-747 WarRavens 138	Posted - 2015.08.06 14:20:00 - [2] - Quote No it does not need a buff. Buff my Scr back or suffer the wrath of the Empire.
Vegetation Monster G0DS AM0NG MEN The Empire of New Eden 310	Posted - 2015.08.06 14:37:00 - [3] - Quote Raven-747 wrote: No it does not need a buff. Oh really, is that why a prototype ishukone sniper can't even OHK a militia scout with a basic armor plate with a body shot? B Double O T Y
LOL KILLZ LOS INADAPTADOS 280	Posted - 2015.08.06 14:39:00 - [4] - Quote It does. Buff it. \0/
Louis Domi Louis Domi's Super Happy Fun Time 1	Posted - 2015.08.06 14:42:00 - [5] - Quote Buff all snipers up 200 damage. "Some people just want to watch the world burn" *Delt for CPM2, Shadowed Cola for CPM2, Breaking For CPM2*
Larkson Crazy Eye WarRavens 174	Posted - 2015.08.06 16:32:00 - [6] - Quote Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite. The problem is buffing dmg, increasing range etc to make snipers more deadly causes far to many problems. We don't want the snipers to have the ability to sniper people from the other side of the map again. Remember those "good" old days when a sniper could sit inside the MCC, or on top of it and hit the enemy redline? Yeah lots of fun... The problem is making snipers deadly ruins the game for just about every one else and puts the snipers in very low risk situations. Frankly more than increasing dmg, or range I think they need to better work the close range aspect of snipers. Quick scoping and less sway would be great. Most other games people snipe from 100m or less, building across the street and such. Not the 400m+ redline bull crap that we get in this game. Especially since there are no bullet physics working against you in dust. You point, you shoot and the enemy takes dmg (if hit detection is working right). There is no real delay, bullet arcs and so on. So if the dmg was increased there would be far more one shot kills from across the map. Which would be a bad thing since there is no muzzle flash and very little sound to indicate where the shot came from. You don't get the hit indicator if you die from the first shot after all. The kill feed in this game is also a lot less useful in determining where you got shot from as well, just giving the distance and weapon. Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician: "Everybody but me--CHARGE!"
Dewie Cheecham Enlightened Infantries Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 705	Posted - 2015.08.06 16:41:00 - [7] - Quote Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite. So, basically you are saying that because Snipers were nerfed into obsolescence, they are now worthless, and before they can be re tasked to be useful again, they shouldn't have the damage the nerfs did reversed? Snipers are extremely low RoF, yet only medium damage. Some sidearms do more damage than a Proto Sniper rifle, and have far superior hit detection. Take the Bolt pistol for instance. Just aim in the general direction, and the aim assist will take care of the rest, where as snipers have absolutely no aim assist, or any to speak of, and are helliously hard to aim at even standing targets, hitting moving targets is more luck than anything, and getting a kill? Well, try to do three impossible things in a row, and you might get a kill shot.
Gydian Dubois Horizons' Edge No Context 224	Posted - 2015.08.06 16:43:00 - [8] - Quote I'm not an elite sniper but the kills thing is wrong. I'm good, don't get me wrong. But I average 12 to 20 a match, most being headshots. And I use Thale's but rarely. More of a Symb's guy. To the OP, nah it doesn't need a buff. It's all about shot placement. Vacka De Fallna - - Awaken The Fallen
Aderek Made in Poland... E-R-A 204	Posted - 2015.08.06 17:04:00 - [9] - Quote No, headshot and one shot one kill ;) Or, replace sniper rifle with forge gun = one shot, one kill :) dust514.pl, wcogram.pl, i-play24.net MM proto logi 80 kk SP and growing
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 8	Posted - 2015.08.06 17:05:00 - [10] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: Buff all snipers up 200 damage. "Some people just want to watch the world burn" "and thus, with a single buff, our Lord Rattati, saviour of our realms, declared, 'He who haseth the Thale, shall be named victorious and rain down glorious, heavenly justice on those who oppose my will.' A new chapter of Dust 514 has cometh, and no man can tell who will remain standing." *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.

Thor Odinson42 Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.08.06 17:07:00 - [11] - Quote Maybe they should buff the heck out of all sniper rifles and remove all the other rifles for pubs. Nail biting redline 16 v 16 fun.
Louis Domi Louis Domi's Super Happy Fun Time 1	Posted - 2015.08.06 17:26:00 - [12] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Louis Domi wrote: Buff all snipers up 200 damage. "Some people just want to watch the world burn" "and thus, with a single buff, our Lord Rattati, saviour of our realms, declared, 'He who haseth the Thale, shall be named victorious and rain down glorious, heavenly justice on those who oppose my will.' A new chapter of Dust 514 has cometh, and no man can tell who will remain standing." Let it cometh, for my body is strong, for my soul is ready! *Delt for CPM2, Shadowed Cola for CPM2, Breaking For CPM2*
DEATH THE KlD Imperfect - Bastards 287	Posted - 2015.08.06 17:38:00 - [13] - Quote Buff all snipers as soon as they can't snipe from their redline..I don't mind being 1 shotted at 450m but if I'm 1 shotted by someone who's 300m in their redline abusing mechanics then no buff for any.
Vegetation Monster G0DS AM0NG MEN The Empire of New Eden 313	Posted - 2015.08.06 18:10:00 - [14] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite. So, basically you are saying that because Snipers were nerfed into obsolescence, they are now worthless, and before they can be re tasked to be useful again, they shouldn't have the damage the nerfs did reversed? Snipers are extremely low RoF, yet only medium damage. Some sidearms do more damage than a Proto Sniper rifle, and have far superior hit detection. Take the Bolt pistol for instance. Just aim in the general direction, and the aim assist will take care of the rest, where as snipers have absolutely no aim assist, or any to speak of, and are helliously hard to aim at even standing targets, hitting moving targets is more luck than anything, and getting a kill? Well, try to do three impossible things in a row, and you might get a kill shot. Also, A proto Bolt pistol does 1 more damage than a proto sniper and it has faster RoF. Now compare the side of bolt pistol and sniper. B Double O T Y
Vegetation Monster G0DS AM0NG MEN The Empire of New Eden 313	Posted - 2015.08.06 18:14:00 - [15] - Quote Gydian Dubois wrote: I'm not an elite sniper but the kills thing is wrong. I'm good, don't get me wrong. But I average 12 to 20 a match, most being headshots. And I use Thale's but rarely. More of a Symb's guy. To the OP, nah it doesn't need a buff. It's all about shot placement. Shot placement. What shot placement when 50% of shots are missed due to hit detection. You do realize that a Ishukone Sniper does 1 less damage than a bolt pistol and has lower RoF. Do you also know that sidearm damage mods give more damage bonus than light damage mods therefore potentially the Bolt Pistol can have higher damages. Also, do you know that the proto bolt pistol costs less than ishukone sniper and it is a literally a pocket sniper (which is better than a real sniper). B Double O T Y
Larkson Crazy Eye WarRavens 174	Posted - 2015.08.06 19:23:00 - [16] - Quote I kind of felt the BP acted as the sniper rifle should in close combat. Give the snipers something to get rid of scope sway and increase the dmg based on your range. That way quick scope sniping at 50m or less is viable and would one shot just about any one but decrease it down to where it is now at longer ranges. That way if you want to be the guy on the roof 400m away from the action you have to get head shots, and maybe 2-3 of them to take down a heavy but if your actually supporting your team you can pick off people in one shot. Seems fair considering the sniper rifles RoF is pretty much slower than the plasma cannon and it can one shot people as well. I just don't think long range sniping should be buffed in any way because there just isn't enough way to counter it other than pulling out your own rifle and hoping you get the guy before he gets you. Assuming their not some kind of tank fit sniper that can take a couple head shots. I think the number one thing they need to do before they can really buff long range sniping is do something about the red line. Perhaps make it so you can't fire into or out of the redline like the MCC shield. Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician: "Everybody but me--CHARGE!"
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.08.06 20:57:00 - [17] - Quote Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Perhaps make it so you can't fire into or out of the redline like the MCC shield. And make a spawn-camp box? Really? Oh look one of the team that logged in late is coming to the edge.. EVERYONE FOLLOW HIM! There would be no more hiding in front of the redline, they'd all stand at the redline, step in to take a few shots, then back out. As well as regarding the distance meter on the Killfeed? A tiny bit of deductive reasoning will reveal only 3 or 4 locations out of the10 or so a map has that the shot could have been fired from. I've found people sitting on the MCC with Thales doing this before. One guy I found on the secodnary ledge of those tall dropship towers. (it's the first ridge underneath the top) If you get killed in a valley, there are only two options. one side or the other. if one side is your base, and the metrics say it's too far.... then obviously it was the direction of the other base. Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite. The problem is buffing dmg, increasing range etc to make snipers more deadly causes far to many problems. We don't want the snipers to have the ability to sniper people from the other side of the map again. Remember those "good" old days when a sniper could sit inside the MCC, or on top of it and hit the enemy redline? Yeah lots of fun... The problem is making snipers deadly ruins the game for just about every one else and puts the snipers in very low risk situations. Frankly more than increasing dmg, or range I think they need to better work the close range aspect of snipers. Quick scoping and less sway would be great. Most other games people snipe from 100m or less, building across the street and such. Not the 400m+ redline bull crap that we get in this game. Especially since there are no bullet physics working against you in dust. You point, you shoot and the enemy takes dmg (if hit detection is working right). There is no real delay, bullet arcs and so on. So if the dmg was increased there would be far more one shot kills from across the map. Which would be a bad thing since there is no muzzle flash and very little sound to indicate where the shot came from. You don't get the hit indicator if you die from the first shot after all. The kill feed in this game is also a lot less useful in determining where you got shot from as well, just giving the distance and weapon. You mean when the maximum health with fully stacked plates was.... 350 health? Kid... an assault can now get 700 health, and a heavy can have around 2,000. The average number of hits it takes to kill a target if about 3 - assault and 5-heavy. Do you know how long it takes to kill either one of those when they can just hide behind a rock every 20 m or so? I mean literally look at the maps. They were designed to STOP all sniper fire. Why are there crates at an angle in the middle of roadways. To stop snipers... why are there 2 story rocks that don't have much influence on a ground fight? To stop snipers. Why are there railings on all the bridges, that have a huge plate at chest level, and another bar directly at head level? DUH to stop snipers. Not to mention there are dips in the map one can hide in, and no local venues of travel due to the fact one can "Spawn travel" across the map. Which is another hit against snipers. And you complain about a damage increase? I would love to see it if the game was set up, so that whenever you had a target lined up with your favorite weapon, that it would jerk about 15* to one side or the other at the moment of shot, and you had to guess when to pull the trigger to hit... then when you re-positioned yourself, you would sway like a drunken baboon and any bullets you fire before the swaying stops do 0 damage. It would be just like a sniper. Without the scope, the gun is erratic. I've fired a point-blank shot into a scout's chest before, when literally the middle 1/3 of the screen was nothing but scout... only to have the shot miss. And he was running in a straight line. I also fired in CQC once, and the scout on the right half of my screen died from the shot. Most anti-sniper complainers are so dumb I just pull out a forge gun. 1000+ damage and snipe em down with that. Nobody has complaints about a forge. Same range... 4x the damage... no sway... pinpoint targeting. Pop on a couple of runspeed bios and I'm all done with that suit. Or what about the plasma cannon? 1000+ damage, can be used by a scout suit, barely has any arc to speak of, and massive splash damage? I mean the splash is on par with sniper 's direct damage here.... Then there is a standard Militia assault rifle... did you know it has a DPS of 2-3x that of a sniper? Not to mention it doesn't need time to retarget after every shot. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 181	Posted - 2015.08.06 20:59:00 - [18] - Quote The sniper rifle does not need a buff, but rather a fix. Due to the real bad hit detection that will never be fixed, most weapons minus the AOE and sniper rifle were given aim assist. AOE obviously does not need it as its a close enough type weapon. The sniper rifle deserves aim assist to make up for the horrid hit detection. I easily land 3-4 rounds from my tactical SR but only 1-2 do damage. This is an unnecessary burden that only one class has to put up with. Giving the SR aim assist gives it a purpose. It does a great amount of damage and at great range. One of the main issues a sniper faces is that even at range, we cannot reliably protect our selves once spotted. I have had players run straight at me from 100 meters away, dump mag 2-3 times before the reach me, and simply laugh and punch me to death. Even worse, I've had them pull the "superior sniper rifle" bolt pistol and strafe and kill me with a head shot. This would be acceptable If I was a **** sniper and missed all of those shots, but that is not the case. Its simple server side lag that only the sniper has to deal with, not the bolt pistol user. All the haters are going to hate what I've said. The truth is simply the sniper still has to be immobile and sacrifice all tank for damage. Most of the old good sniper spots were removed with range reduction, while most the rest were magically blocked with new structures. To be competitive as a sniper, you have to risk much to get mediocre positions to get even above 10 kills, were I feel snipers need to be closer to 20 to be a great team asset wp wise. Adding aim assist will still see the full time redline sniper fall far below that mark most of the time (map/socket/game mode dependent). When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Vesta Opalus Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 956	Posted - 2015.08.06 21:27:00 - [19] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Would you guys disagree with buffing with standard variant sniper rifle damage? For example Ishukone Sniper would go from 250 damage to 280 damage? Everything else remains the same. I think sniper mechanics need to be changed, any damage buff is just mental ************ at this point, their real problem is they cant hang with the big boys outside of the redline.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.06 21:28:00 - [20] - Quote I'd be down for it, but mostly because the Thale's is about the only one worth a damn. They need to narrow the damage gap between them considering that the Thale's has 110+ more damage than the Ishukone. I get that officer variants are supposed to be powerful and what not but the Thale's has some stupid ridiculous gains over the prototype. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2

Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.08.06 23:33:00 - [21] - Quote Thale on calmando works when it comes to kills and cleaning rooftops etc. Standard Sniper Rifle.. With this thing you pretty much have to land headshots all the time (unlike Thale which needs two body shots to take out 900+ hp guys). I also think that damage between tiers should be narrowed while fixing stuff like : double zoom, shooting while standing, sway etc. Loyal to The State Official Caldari Commando User
Russel Mendoza Klandatu 234	Posted - 2015.08.06 23:39:00 - [22] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Raven-747 wrote: No it does not need a buff. Oh really, is that why a prototype ishukone sniper can't even OHK a militia scout with a basic armor plate with a body shot? If you cant ohk a scout dont be a sniper. Keep working on your sniper skills for now. Even a non calmando sniper should be able to ohk a scout ffs. I have ohk scout with std sr on mil suit with body shot i dont get you. I'm the biggest Dustard in the universe!!! Summoning technique "Gorgon no jutsu" Vehicle request accepted.
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.08.07 00:01:00 - [23] - Quote Russel Mendoza wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: Raven-747 wrote: No it does not need a buff. Oh really, is that why a prototype ishukone sniper can't even OHK a militia scout with a basic armor plate with a body shot? If you cant ohk a scout dont be a sniper. Keep working on your sniper skills for now. Even a non calmando sniper should be able to ohk a scout ffs. I have ohk scout with std sr on mil suit with body shot i dont get you. You won't OHK a (proper) scout using Ishukone Sniper on non calmando suit (body shot). Loyal to The State Official Caldari Commando User
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.08.07 01:19:00 - [24] - Quote What needs a buff, for snipers, is to give them better areas to snipe from. Doubtful, but maybe, they'll stop sniping from the redline n++pâçGòÉS+ÇShields, the silent killer.n++pâçGòÉS+Ç Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Caldari Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
tffvbhb Pile 'em Up 32	Posted - 2015.08.07 02:09:00 - [25] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Would you guys disagree with buffing with standard variant sniper rifle damage? For example Ishukone Sniper would go from 250 damage to 280 damage? Everything else remains the same. I like headshoting people with a charge sniper... Most people are killed with one shot
jace silencerww MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH 186	Posted - 2015.08.07 03:18:00 - [26] - Quote Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite. The problem is buffing dmg, increasing range etc to make snipers more deadly causes far to many problems. We don't want the snipers to have the ability to sniper people from the other side of the map again. Remember those "good" old days when a sniper could sit inside the MCC, or on top of it and hit the enemy redline? Yeah lots of fun... The problem is making snipers deadly ruins the game for just about every one else and puts the snipers in very low risk situations. Frankly more than increasing dmg, or range I think they need to better work the close range aspect of snipers. Quick scoping and less sway would be great. Most other games people snipe from 100m or less, building across the street and such. Not the 400m+ redline bull crap that we get in this game. Especially since there are no bullet physics working against you in dust. You point, you shoot and the enemy takes dmg (if hit detection is working right). There is no real delay, bullet arcs and so on. So if the dmg was increased there would be far more one shot kills from across the map. Which would be a bad thing since there is no muzzle flash and very little sound to indicate where the shot came from. You don't get the hit indicator if you die from the first shot after all. The kill feed in this game is also a lot less useful in determining where you got shot from as well, just giving the distance and weapon. LOL really 5-10 kills? i was using the kaal caldari scout before it was broke into the skin and standard cald scout with more slots. so 3 highs 1 low, use 3 krin damage mods, using the staff recruiter sniper rifle (a bpo the same as a basic sniper rifle in stats) and got 29 kills & 0 deaths and no neither side was redlined and i was about 150 at most from the objective and yes it was on a dom. the problem is most people who snipe hide in or really close to they redline. i do remember being able to snipe a red at 700+ meters while he was falling out of his MCC. my longest kill with a sniper was 795 meters. there was 2 skills for each of the heavy, light & sidearm that increased range. 1 by 25% the other by 15%. so weapons could have 40% more range but it did not help snipers shoot past 800 meters though since reds only showed up at 799 meters. some snipers can mmake a change in the battle by most are hated for long range killing that they have no defense against. just running along then bang their dead.
Omaarion27 Inner.Hell 12	Posted - 2015.08.07 08:03:00 - [27] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Would you guys disagree with buffing with standard variant sniper rifle damage? For example Ishukone Sniper would go from 250 damage to 280 damage? Everything else remains the same. lmfao what the sniper rifle needs is to be removed from the game it allows for a lazy unhelpful and untactical playstyle "They hate us because they Anus" CAL n GAL FTFW disagree meet me in battle n taste the RAILnPLASMA flavor
Thor Odinson42 Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.08.07 08:15:00 - [28] - Quote Squagga wrote: What needs a buff, for snipers, is to give them better areas to snipe from. Doubtful, but maybe, they'll stop sniping from the redline Call me skeptical.
nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 346	Posted - 2015.08.07 08:21:00 - [29] - Quote When a militia sniper rifle can I sta kill anything past 4-500 hp suit with headshot yeaaaa nope doesnt need buff unless u wanna remove headshot dmg for ur dmg buff nope shouldnt happen FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.07 08:26:00 - [30] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite. So, basically you are saying that because Snipers were nerfed into obsolescence, they are now worthless, and before they can be re tasked to be useful again, they shouldn't have the damage the nerfs did reversed? Snipers are extremely low RoF, yet only medium damage. Some sidearms do more damage than a Proto Sniper rifle, and have far superior hit detection. Take the Bolt pistol for instance. Just aim in the general direction, and the aim assist will take care of the rest, where as snipers have absolutely no aim assist, or any to speak of, and are helliously hard to aim at even standing targets, hitting moving targets is more luck than anything, and getting a kill? Well, try to do three impossible things in a row, and you might get a kill shot. Snipers were worthless before they were nerfed into obsolescence. They were nerfed specifically to get people ON to the battlefield and out of the redline. A teammate that isn't actually reliably helping you play objectives, or even doing things like putting uplinks out isn't a teammate worth having, and as it turns out snipers aren't able to reliably assist their teammates. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Mina Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.07 08:39:00 - [31] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Gydian Dubois wrote: I'm not an elite sniper but the kills thing is wrong. I'm good, don't get me wrong. But I average 12 to 20 a match, most being headshots. And I use Thale's but rarely. More of a Symb's guy. To the OP, nah it doesn't need a buff. It's all about shot placement. Shot placement. What shot placement when 50% of shots are missed due to hit detection. You do realize that a Ishukone Sniper does 1 less damage than a bolt pistol and has lower RoF. Do you also know that sidearm damage mods give more damage bonus than light damage mods therefore potentially the Bolt Pistol can have higher damages. Also, do you know that the proto bolt pistol costs less than ishukone sniper and it is a literally a pocket sniper (which is better than a real sniper). You also realise that all sniper rifles have considerably higher damage multipliers on headshots right? They also have dramatically longer ranges and don't lose damage until 350 -> 450m depending on variant. You also realise that snipers benefit from cal commando bonus and warbarge bonuses and bolt pistols don't right? Now provided you were silly enough to put 3 sidearm damage mods on a bolt pistol fit, you'd only get ~26.4% increased damage Were you to fit 3x complex light damage mods on a cal commando (level 5) you'd get ~30% increased damage and 25% increased reload speed AND a second light weapon... Plus warbarge bonus (which is multiplicative to the headshot bonus and proficiency bonus - should you have warbarge and proficiency maxed out you're getting roughly 362% headshot damage on standard variants) So yeah, stop trying to skew the numbers thanks. Bolt pistols have low damage per magazine, even in comparison to other sidearms and especially so in comparison to actual rifles, they also have ** all for range - especially if you're relying on hipfire auto aim compensations, try hitting someone reliably at 80m while aimed down sights with a bolt pistol (you start losing damage past 47m with a bolt pistol, and at 80m are only doing 28% damage) Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.08.07 14:48:00 - [32] - Quote Gydian Dubois wrote: I'm not an elite sniper but the kills thing is wrong. I'm good, don't get me wrong. But I average 12 to 20 a match, most being headshots. And I use Thale's but rarely. More of a Symb's guy. To the OP, nah it doesn't need a buff. It's all about shot placement. >.> That is a very silly argument against a buff. You're stating that when using the OFFICER variants and almost only though headshots, you are only able to get what anyone else would have already gotten with a basic variant of any other weapon. Would it then be alright if the only viable Scrambler to even hit 20 kills and only by solely going for headshots was the Darths? Or the same for ARs only being effective when using a Krins/Balacs/Kalentes? The officer variant should not be the only variant that is considered the only useful level of the tool. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 765	Posted - 2015.08.07 15:16:00 - [33] - Quote Raven-747 wrote: No it does not need a buff. if you aren't getting head shots you should be using the assault variant, it effectively increases the body damage by almost double, so like Raven here said, no it does not need a buff click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.08.07 16:24:00 - [34] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite. So, basically you are saying that because Snipers were nerfed into obsolescence, they are now worthless, and before they can be re tasked to be useful again, they shouldn't have the damage the nerfs did reversed? Snipers are extremely low RoF, yet only medium damage. Some sidearms do more damage than a Proto Sniper rifle, and have far superior hit detection. Take the Bolt pistol for instance. Just aim in the general direction, and the aim assist will take care of the rest, where as snipers have absolutely no aim assist, or any to speak of, and are helliously hard to aim at even standing targets, hitting moving targets is more luck than anything, and getting a kill? Well, try to do three impossible things in a row, and you might get a kill shot. Snipers were worthless before they were nerfed into obsolescence. They were nerfed specifically to get people ON to the battlefield and out of the redline. A teammate that isn't actually reliably helping you play objectives, or even doing things like putting uplinks out isn't a teammate worth having, and as it turns out snipers aren't able to reliably assist their teammates. Say that to a guy who will kill 30 reds, watch the objective hack pad and cover all high grounds. Loyal to The State Official Caldari Commando User
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.07 19:12:00 - [35] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite. So, basically you are saying that because Snipers were nerfed into obsolescence, they are now worthless, and before they can be re tasked to be useful again, they shouldn't have the damage the nerfs did reversed? Snipers are extremely low RoF, yet only medium damage. Some sidearms do more damage than a Proto Sniper rifle, and have far superior hit detection. Take the Bolt pistol for instance. Just aim in the general direction, and the aim assist will take care of the rest, where as snipers have absolutely no aim assist, or any to speak of, and are helliously hard to aim at even standing targets, hitting moving targets is more luck than anything, and getting a kill? Well, try to do three impossible things in a row, and you might get a kill shot. Snipers were worthless before they were nerfed into obsolescence. They were nerfed specifically to get people ON to the battlefield and out of the redline. A teammate that isn't actually reliably helping you play objectives, or even doing things like putting uplinks out isn't a teammate worth having, and as it turns out snipers aren't able to reliably assist their teammates. Say that to a guy who will kill 30 reds, watch the objective hack pad and cover all high grounds. If I ever see him sure... but I'm beginning to believe that he's just a folk tale and doesn't actually exist. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Samantha Hunyz Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 181	Posted - 2015.08.07 22:16:00 - [36] - Quote I'm still sticking to my word and saying that range, zoom, damage, and current map layouts (minus a few sockets) are not the problem. Hit detection however is not. Fix hit detection ( which is not possible) or give the SR and the laser aim assist. My previous post on the first page detailing this left out the laser, but it is because I don't use or get killed by this weapon, so it is never on my mind. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.08.08 00:25:00 - [37] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Squagga wrote: What needs a buff, for snipers, is to give them better areas to snipe from. Doubtful, but maybe, they'll stop sniping from the redline Call me skeptical. Don't get me wrong guys I am no sniper lover but I have tried to make that thing work in the think of battle and it just doesn't. All you CAN do with it is camp camp and more camp. Even using the tactical and fighting in a more medium ish range for a sniper, it still sucks. The weapon cannot be used effectively on the move or while standing...... and we wonder why we see game after game snipers hiding in the redline. "Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
Vegetation Monster G0DS AM0NG MEN 316	Posted - 2015.08.10 15:51:00 - [38] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite. The problem is buffing dmg, increasing range etc to make snipers more deadly causes far to many problems. We don't want the snipers to have the ability to sniper people from the other side of the map again. Remember those "good" old days when a sniper could sit inside the MCC, or on top of it and hit the enemy redline? Yeah lots of fun... The problem is making snipers deadly ruins the game for just about every one else and puts the snipers in very low risk situations. Frankly more than increasing dmg, or range I think they need to better work the close range aspect of snipers. Quick scoping and less sway would be great. Most other games people snipe from 100m or less, building across the street and such. Not the 400m+ redline bull crap that we get in this game. Especially since there are no bullet physics working against you in dust. You point, you shoot and the enemy takes dmg (if hit detection is working right). There is no real delay, bullet arcs and so on. So if the dmg was increased there would be far more one shot kills from across the map. Which would be a bad thing since there is no muzzle flash and very little sound to indicate where the shot came from. You don't get the hit indicator if you die from the first shot after all. The kill feed in this game is also a lot less useful in determining where you got shot from as well, just giving the distance and weapon. LOL really 5-10 kills? i was using the kaal caldari scout before it was broke into the skin and standard cald scout with more slots. so 3 highs 1 low, use 3 krin damage mods, using the staff recruiter sniper rifle (a bpo the same as a basic sniper rifle in stats) and got 29 kills & 0 deaths and no neither side was redlined and i was about 150 at most from the objective and yes it was on a dom. the problem is most people who snipe hide in or really close to they redline. i do remember being able to snipe a red at 700+ meters while he was falling out of his MCC. my longest kill with a sniper was 795 meters. there was 2 skills for each of the heavy, light & sidearm that increased range. 1 by 25% the other by 15%. so weapons could have 40% more range but it did not help snipers shoot past 800 meters though since reds only showed up at 799 meters. some snipers can mmake a change in the battle by most are hated for long range killing that they have no defense against. just running along then bang their dead. hey, guess what, I once used a ion pistol on a militia Minmatar scout with less than 200 HP in PC and got 36 kills and only 2 deaths. <- because of this fake sotry, I hereby say that no buffs needed to ion pistol. B Double O T Y
Vegetation Monster G0DS AM0NG MEN 316	Posted - 2015.08.10 15:56:00 - [39] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: Gydian Dubois wrote: I'm not an elite sniper but the kills thing is wrong. I'm good, don't get me wrong. But I average 12 to 20 a match, most being headshots. And I use Thale's but rarely. More of a Symb's guy. To the OP, nah it doesn't need a buff. It's all about shot placement. Shot placement. What shot placement when 50% of shots are missed due to hit detection. You do realize that a Ishukone Sniper does 1 less damage than a bolt pistol and has lower RoF. Do you also know that sidearm damage mods give more damage bonus than light damage mods therefore potentially the Bolt Pistol can have higher damages. Also, do you know that the proto bolt pistol costs less than ishukone sniper and it is a literally a pocket sniper (which is better than a real sniper). You also realise that all sniper rifles have considerably higher damage multipliers on headshots right? They also have dramatically longer ranges and don't lose damage until 350 -> 450m depending on variant. You also realise that snipers benefit from cal commando bonus and warbarge bonuses and bolt pistols don't right? Now provided you were silly enough to put 3 sidearm damage mods on a bolt pistol fit, you'd only get ~26.4% increased damage Were you to fit 3x complex light damage mods on a cal commando (level 5) you'd get ~30% increased damage and 25% increased reload speed AND a second light weapon... Plus warbarge bonus (which is multiplicative to the headshot bonus and proficiency bonus - should you have warbarge and proficiency maxed out you're getting roughly 362% headshot damage on standard variants) So yeah, stop trying to skew the numbers thanks. Bolt pistols have low damage per magazine, even in comparison to other sidearms and especially so in comparison to actual rifles, they also have ** all for range - especially if you're relying on hipfire auto aim compensations, try hitting someone reliably at 80m while aimed down sights with a bolt pistol (you start losing damage past 47m with a bolt pistol, and at 80m are only doing 28% damage) Are you ******? Calmando bonus is 10% damage bonus to all RAIL WEAPONS which includes Bolt Pistols. Also, bolt pistols have I believe the same Headshot bonus (maybe a little less around 275%) but bolt pistol has aim assist stronger than diamonds. Also, yes bolt pistols have less range,but bolt pistols are useless in long range just as sniper is useless within 100m. B Double O T Y
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 7	Posted - 2015.08.10 18:48:00 - [40] - Quote I have been killed by Tactical Sniper rifles and Officer Sniper rifles in the last few months, but I could count on one hand how many times I have been killed by either a standard or Charged Sniper Rifle in the last few months, and have fingers left over. I would prefer to have bullet drop start after 100m on a sniper rifle rather than reduce range. Then long range sniping would take a lot of player skill. It would be good if any squad member could place an attack order, just have it yellow instead of red if they are not the Squad Lead. This would allow Snipers to also be spotters. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 7	Posted - 2015.08.10 19:00:00 - [41] - Quote Gydian Dubois wrote: I'm not an elite sniper but the kills thing is wrong. I'm good, don't get me wrong. But I average 12 to 20 a match, most being headshots. And I use Thale's but rarely. More of a Symb's guy. To the OP, nah it doesn't need a buff. It's all about shot placement. So you are saying the Standard Sniper Rifle does not need a buff because the Officer Sniper Rifle works fine? That is an interesting form of argument. Let me try that. - The Ion Pistol does not need a buff because people get lots of kills with the Bolt Pistol. - Shield suits do not need a buff because armor suits work fine. Yes, this approach to debating is so freeing! It is not at all restricted by the bounds of logic. You could use it to argue just about anything. You sir are a genius! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 125	Posted - 2015.08.10 19:35:00 - [42] - Quote I have an awesome idea!!!!! Lets all biomass ALL sniper rifles. *KEQ Diplomat* Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.10 20:37:00 - [43] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Are you ******? Calmando bonus is 10% damage bonus to all RAIL WEAPONS which includes Bolt Pistols. Also, bolt pistols have I believe the same Headshot bonus (maybe a little less around 275%) but bolt pistol has aim assist stronger than diamonds. Also, yes bolt pistols have less range,but bolt pistols are useless in long range just as sniper is useless within 100m. You might want to read that skill description Quote: "Caldari Commando Bonus: +2% damage to hyprid - railgun LIGHT weapons per level" Bolt pistols do not have the same headshot bonus, you can view this in the hotfix delta spreadsheet rattati made (click on the sniper rifles bit). Bolt pistol aim assist being insane is an unsubstantiated rumor in my experience its no different from any other hitscan pistol and honestly - I hit things with all variety of hit scan guns even when I'm not directly centered all the time. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Vegetation Monster G0DS AM0NG MEN The Empire of New Eden 317	Posted - 2015.08.10 21:15:00 - [44] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: Are you ******? Calmando bonus is 10% damage bonus to all RAIL WEAPONS which includes Bolt Pistols. Also, bolt pistols have I believe the same Headshot bonus (maybe a little less around 275%) but bolt pistol has aim assist stronger than diamonds. Also, yes bolt pistols have less range,but bolt pistols are useless in long range just as sniper is useless within 100m. You might want to read that skill description Quote: "Caldari Commando Bonus: +2% damage to hyprid - railgun LIGHT weapons per level"** Bolt pistols do not have the same headshot bonus, you can view this in the hotfix delta spreadsheet rattati made (click on the sniper rifles bit). Bolt pistol aim assist being insane is an unsubstantiated rumor. in my experience its no different from any other hitscan pistol and honestly - I hit things with all variety of hit scan guns even when I'm not directly centered all the time. Okay you are right that Bolt pistol does not get commando bous but still 225% headshot bonus is higher than the tactical snipers 200% and only a little bit lower than 300% of a Standard Sniper. Not to mention that a head shot with a bolt pistol is as easy as it gets. You don't even have to aim down sights for them (as shown in Saxonmishs videos). But, my points still stand. Bolt pistol is way more OP than Sniper rifle. Truthfully, sniper rifle is no where near OP and sadly no where near balanced either because it is basically one of the most under powered weapons and roles in the game. Yes, the aim assist on BP is crazy, and it doesn't get bothered by hit detection. also- THE THING IS A SIDEARM that has faster RoF than the standard snipers and it does 1 more base damage than the proto Sniper. Also, lets not forget that you can pretty much ask anyone on the forums "What is more OP, sniper or BP" and anyone with a brain will say Bolt Pistol. BTW- go watch this and tell me that bolt pistol is worse than sniper. B Double O T Y
Sylwester Dziewiecki 491	Posted - 2015.08.10 21:45:00 - [45] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Would you guys disagree with buffing with standard variant sniper rifle damage? For example Ishukone Sniper would go from 250 damage to 280 damage? Everything else remains the same. What it need is aim-assist for DS3 users. G Speed Scout. MM Logi/Assault. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.10 21:45:00 - [46] - Quote No, your points don't still stand - the bolt pistol is not overpowered or underpowered. I haven't commented on the state of balance of the sniper rifle, especially in comparison to the bolt pistol, all I have done is highlight the differences between them and where you are incorrect in your information. You haven't made a point on aim assistance in regards to bolt pistol because all you have done is assert things: assertions can be dismissed with the same amount of evidence that they are presented with - your assertion has zero evidence and no, that video doesn't count as it doesn't compare it rigorously with other weapons - especially when its saxon mish behind the editing. It might come as a shock but that video is about as biased as it can get. Not everything you 'see' is true, especially when it can be spun (here's a video that illustrates on that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcoTUFoDDRc) Who cares if the bolt pistol has a faster RoF or if it does one more damage? It doesn't have the range of a sniper - I'm not even sure why you're comparing it to a sniper rifle other than maybe someone went "HURR POCKET SNIPER". If you want make nonsensical comparisons, why not compare the bolt pistol to a forge gun? Or a plasma cannon - they both have similar spool up times, they both fire one round between spooling. Or why not nova knives they're sidearms, they have a spoolup too, they also do more damage than sniper rifles. Or maybe we can compare bolt pistols to scrambler rifles firing charged shots. I'd like for you to PROVE that bolt pistol aim assist is different from any other hitscan weapon, because all hitscan weapons can have wacky performance. You are succumbing to groupthink and confirmation bias on something that you have no actual substantive proof of. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19	Posted - 2015.08.10 22:32:00 - [47] - Quote Problem isn't damage; on paper these sniper rifles the majority borderline OP one shooting people. The problem that is hurting snipers the most is damage application. Buffing the Zoom; nerfing the sway (or redoing it) improve charge mechanics would go a long way in resolving issues surrounding the sniper not the damage. Damage was tuned specifically against the most tankiest of fits possible on any one suit. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
VAHZZ Vader's-Fist 6	Posted - 2015.08.10 22:44:00 - [48] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Problem isn't damage; on paper these sniper rifles the majority borderline OP one shooting people. The problem that is hurting snipers the most is damage application. Buffing the Zoom; nerfing the sway (or redoing it) improve charge mechanics would go a long way in resolving issues surrounding the sniper not the damage. Damage was tuned specifically against the most tankiest of fits possible on any one suit. Finally, someone agrees with me. Director of Vader's Fist
Vegetation Monster G0DS AM0NG MEN The Empire of New Eden 318	Posted - 2015.08.11 01:25:00 - [49] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: No, your points don't still stand - the bolt pistol is not overpowered or underpowered. I haven't commented on the state of balance of the sniper rifle, especially in comparison to the bolt pistol, all I have done is highlight the differences between them and where you are incorrect in your information. You haven't made a point on aim assistance in regards to bolt pistol because all you have done is assert things: assertions can be dismissed with the same amount of evidence that they are presented with - your assertion has zero evidence and no, that video doesn't count as it doesn't compare it rigorously with other weapons - especially when its saxon mish behind the editing. It might come as a shock but that video is about as biased as it can get. Not everything you 'see' is true, especially when it can be spun (here's a video that illustrates on that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcoTUFoDDRc) Who cares if the bolt pistol has a faster RoF or if it does one more damage? It doesn't have the range of a sniper - I'm not even sure why you're comparing it to a sniper rifle other than maybe someone went "HURR POCKET SNIPER". If you want make nonsensical comparisons, why not compare the bolt pistol to a forge gun? Or a plasma cannon - they both have similar spool up times, they both fire one round between spooling. Or why not nova knives they're sidearms, they have a spoolup too, they also do more damage than sniper rifles. Or maybe we can compare bolt pistols to scrambler rifles firing charged shots. I'd like for you to PROVE that bolt pistol aim assist is different from any other hitscan weapon, because all hitscan weapons can have wacky performance. You are succumbing to groupthink and confirmation bias on something that you have no actual substantive proof of. These weapons are very comparable if you factor out range. But: Okay, sniper has more range but it's completely useless within 100m. The bolt pistol is very useful (Due to the fact that you don't even have to ADS to have shots hits at 30m and it does equal to or greater than the to Sniper Damage) but it is useless at sniper ranges. Now, forget the range stuff and look at snipers skill vs Bolt pistol user skill. The sniper has horrible hit detection along with absolutely no Aim Assist what so ever. (Also don't forget that people look like ants even through our scopes). Bolt pistol on the other hand believe it or not the BP has crazy aim assist when not ADS. (YOU MUST BE BLIND IF YOU THINK IT IS THE SAME AS OTHER WEAPONS). The cross hairs are huge but still 90% of the time the bullet hits even if our target takes only 50% of the cross hairs. Also, the head shots are no-brainer-no-skill. They happen with ease and you don't even have to aim down sights. Go watch the dam video again. It's not even the fact that Saxonmish is good, it's just that the weapon is EZ-mode. But look at in the IRL perspective. SNIPERS DO MORE DAMAGE THAN DAM PISTOLS. Snipers are huge heavy rifles- they should be doing more damage than little pistols. It is common sense. I know this is Dust 514 but still, it could at least have a little bit of realism in it. The bolt pistol is a pueeny little rail sidearm where the sniper is a very very long rail primary weapon. It just makes sense if the Sniper does more damage. And if you account the length of the sniper for the range it has, least they could do is make it do like a crap ton of damage up close. B Double O T Y
Mina Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.11 02:49:00 - [50] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: the BP has crazy aim assist when not ADS. (YOU MUST BE BLIND IF YOU THINK IT IS THE SAME AS OTHER WEAPONS). Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Repeating something ad nauseum does not make it true. I fired a shotgun while jumping over someone earlier today, I was over top of the other player and aiming down and at an angle where he wasn't even on my SCREEN and I still hit and killed him, do you see me going "OMG SHOTGUNS OP"? No because I know there are a great many reasons that could have happened. All hitscan weapons can have some crazy things go on. Your statement right here is loaded with fallacies, in particular I'd like to poing out groupthink, bandwagoning and cofirmation bias - all are fallacious. In particular you're anchoring and that's preventing you from using your critical thinking skills on this matter. Vegetation Monster wrote: But look at in the IRL perspective. SNIPERS DO MORE DAMAGE THAN DAM PISTOLS. Snipers are huge heavy rifles- they should be doing more damage than little pistols. It is common sense. I know this is Dust 514 but still, it could at least have a little bit of realism in it. The bolt pistol is a pueeny little rail sidearm where the sniper is a very very long rail primary weapon. It just makes sense if the Sniper does more damage. And if you account the length of the sniper for the range it has, least they could do is make it do like a crap ton of damage up close. I am not incredibly well versed on or terribly knowledgeable about rifles and I personally believe you are arguing this from a position of ignorance yourself. However I do know that quite often pistols are large caliber and have high muzzle velocities (but not so high as to overpenetrate). There's a reason that some people when going hunting will carry a pistol specifically for dealing with something like bears - they are designed for single lethal shots at shorter ranges. Overpenetration is actually a negative thing in many cases, because bullets are designed to deform and ones that either break up inside the target or get lodged can actually be far worse to deal with. In particular I have a picture saved on my hard drive of a fifty cal sniper rifle (one of those "DOES MORE DAMAGE ANTI MATERIAL RIFLE", I really wish I could find it, but it would take hours) round shot into ballistics gel and due to the way bullet deformation (one of the factors that makes exit wounds bigger than entrance wounds with bullet) works when penetrating the bullet fired from the 50cal SR goes 6 inches into the target in a small straight narrow line before the size of the bullet wound actually starts to expand. Now when shooting at people, unless you're standing on top of them you've only got about 6 inches before your bullet passes right through them, meaning that the 'does more damage!!!!!" sniper rifle would actually do less because the bullet doesn't have time to deform inside the target and create the "omg massive exit wound". Now of course we're not shooting at unarmored flesh and we'd require higher velocities simply to penetrate armor, but even just displacing armor and having the bullet deform and stay lodged inside the clone could be beneficial - as our nanite enhanced physiology is unlikely to be able to deal with that. (In 'reality' though, anything that penetrates our armor is likely to kill us and we'd just jump conciousness over to a new clone). It also depends entirely upon the type of pistol and the type of rifle in question. Also overpenetration is a MASSIVE factor when dealing with rail weaponry (which is F = ma weaponized), a sniper rifle would be worthless up close because of overpenetration - it's designed to hit things 450m away (longer if we're talking about fluff rather than game mechanics) compared to the pistol being designed to not overpenetrate and kill things up close. Now in regards to the bolt pistol specifically - have you looked at the armature size on the model? The rails on the bolt pistol are bigger than the magsec in its entirety and are bigger than the forearm of the EIGHT FOOT TALL POWER ARMOR WEARING MERCENARY HOLDING IT. This thing is bigger than a civilian RIFLE. In its range it would destroy the mercenary holding a sniper rifle. In short your argument about "realism" has absolutely no basis upon reality. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.* I have a few alts.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 7	Posted - 2015.08.12 13:12:00 - [51] - Quote This morning I was killed repeatedly by standard Sniper rifles at over 400m, but it was not just a Solo Sniper. I know this because I was hit by two Sniper bullets in about 0.3 seconds. Full health min Sent to dead in 0.3 seconds. A single Sniper could not fire that fast. So, the standard Sniper Rifle is effective if there are two Snipers on Coms and calling targets for each other. So: Pro Buff: It is so underpowered that you need two Snipers to make a kill. Anti Buff: If you have two Snipers working together they can be devastating. I don't really think it has a lot of barring on the Buff Sniper Rifles debate, but it is an effective tactic which I used to use when Sniping back in Open Beta, and this is the first time I have seen effective sniper teams in a long time. I thought the Snipers in here might be interested. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Vegetation Monster G0DS AM0NG MEN The Empire of New Eden 323	Posted - 2015.08.12 15:45:00 - [52] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: This morning I was killed repeatedly by standard Sniper rifles at over 400m, but it was not just a Solo Sniper. I know this because I was hit by two Sniper bullets in about 0.3 seconds. Full health min Sent to dead in 0.3 seconds. A single Sniper could not fire that fast. So, the standard Sniper Rifle is effective if there are two Snipers on Coms and calling targets for each other. So: Pro Buff: It is so underpowered that you need two Snipers to make a kill. Anti Buff: If you have two Snipers working together they can be devastating. I don't really think it has a lot of barring on the Buff Sniper Rifles debate, but it is an effective tactic which I used to use when Sniping back in Open Beta, and this is the first time I have seen effective sniper teams in a long time. I thought the Snipers in here might be interested. Heavy suits have huge hit boxes which makes them easy to headshot bruv. Everything else is just luck. BTW: when you have a heavy and a logi working together, they can also be devastating. So can a solo heavy unlike a solo sniper. How often do you get killed by snipers? B Double O T Y


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