DUST Search - Sniper Buff...

Mejt0 wrote:

Mina Longstrike wrote:

Dewie Cheecham wrote:

Larkson Crazy Eye wrote:

Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite.

So, basically you are saying that because Snipers were nerfed into obsolescence, they are now worthless, and before they can be re tasked to be useful again, they shouldn't have the damage the nerfs did reversed?

Snipers are extremely low RoF, yet only medium damage. Some sidearms do more damage than a Proto Sniper rifle, and have far superior hit detection. Take the Bolt pistol for instance. Just aim in the general direction, and the aim assist will take care of the rest, where as snipers have absolutely no aim assist, or any to speak of, and are helliously hard to aim at even standing targets, hitting moving targets is more luck than anything, and getting a kill? Well, try to do three impossible things in a row, and you might get a kill shot.

Snipers were worthless before they were nerfed into obsolescence. They were nerfed specifically to get people ON to the battlefield and out of the redline.

A teammate that isn't actually reliably helping you play objectives, or even doing things like putting uplinks out isn't a teammate worth having, and as it turns out snipers aren't able to reliably assist their teammates.

Say that to a guy who will kill 30 reds, watch the objective hack pad and cover all high grounds.


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MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.07 08:26:00 - [1] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite. So, basically you are saying that because Snipers were nerfed into obsolescence, they are now worthless, and before they can be re tasked to be useful again, they shouldn't have the damage the nerfs did reversed? Snipers are extremely low RoF, yet only medium damage. Some sidearms do more damage than a Proto Sniper rifle, and have far superior hit detection. Take the Bolt pistol for instance. Just aim in the general direction, and the aim assist will take care of the rest, where as snipers have absolutely no aim assist, or any to speak of, and are helliously hard to aim at even standing targets, hitting moving targets is more luck than anything, and getting a kill? Well, try to do three impossible things in a row, and you might get a kill shot. Snipers were worthless before they were nerfed into obsolescence. They were nerfed specifically to get people ON to the battlefield and out of the redline. A teammate that isn't actually reliably helping you play objectives, or even doing things like putting uplinks out isn't a teammate worth having, and as it turns out snipers aren't able to reliably assist their teammates. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Mina Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.07 08:39:00 - [2] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Gydian Dubois wrote: I'm not an elite sniper but the kills thing is wrong. I'm good, don't get me wrong. But I average 12 to 20 a match, most being headshots. And I use Thale's but rarely. More of a Symb's guy. To the OP, nah it doesn't need a buff. It's all about shot placement. Shot placement. What shot placement when 50% of shots are missed due to hit detection. You do realize that a Ishukone Sniper does 1 less damage than a bolt pistol and has lower RoF. Do you also know that sidearm damage mods give more damage bonus than light damage mods therefore potentially the Bolt Pistol can have higher damages. Also, do you know that the proto bolt pistol costs less than ishukone sniper and it is a literally a pocket sniper (which is better than a real sniper). You also realise that all sniper rifles have considerably higher damage multipliers on headshots right? They also have dramatically longer ranges and don't lose damage until 350 -> 450m depending on variant. You also realise that snipers benefit from cal commando bonus and warbarge bonuses and bolt pistols don't right? Now provided you were silly enough to put 3 sidearm damage mods on a bolt pistol fit, you'd only get ~26.4% increased damage Were you to fit 3x complex light damage mods on a cal commando (level 5) you'd get ~30% increased damage and 25% increased reload speed AND a second light weapon... Plus warbarge bonus (which is multiplicative to the headshot bonus and proficiency bonus - should you have warbarge and proficiency maxed out you're getting roughly 362% headshot damage on standard variants) So yeah, stop trying to skew the numbers thanks. Bolt pistols have low damage per magazine, even in comparison to other sidearms and especially so in comparison to actual rifles, they also have ** all for range - especially if you're relying on hipfire auto aim compensations, try hitting someone reliably at 80m while aimed down sights with a bolt pistol (you start losing damage past 47m with a bolt pistol, and at 80m are only doing 28% damage) Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.07 19:12:00 - [3] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite. So, basically you are saying that because Snipers were nerfed into obsolescence, they are now worthless, and before they can be re tasked to be useful again, they shouldn't have the damage the nerfs did reversed? Snipers are extremely low RoF, yet only medium damage. Some sidearms do more damage than a Proto Sniper rifle, and have far superior hit detection. Take the Bolt pistol for instance. Just aim in the general direction, and the aim assist will take care of the rest, where as snipers have absolutely no aim assist, or any to speak of, and are helliously hard to aim at even standing targets, hitting moving targets is more luck than anything, and getting a kill? Well, try to do three impossible things in a row, and you might get a kill shot. Snipers were worthless before they were nerfed into obsolescence. They were nerfed specifically to get people ON to the battlefield and out of the redline. A teammate that isn't actually reliably helping you play objectives, or even doing things like putting uplinks out isn't a teammate worth having, and as it turns out snipers aren't able to reliably assist their teammates. Say that to a guy who will kill 30 reds, watch the objective hack pad and cover all high grounds. If I ever see him sure... but I'm beginning to believe that he's just a folk tale and doesn't actually exist. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.10 20:37:00 - [4] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Are you ******? Calmando bonus is 10% damage bonus to all RAIL WEAPONS which includes Bolt Pistols. Also, bolt pistols have I believe the same Headshot bonus (maybe a little less around 275%) but bolt pistol has aim assist stronger than diamonds. Also, yes bolt pistols have less range,but bolt pistols are useless in long range just as sniper is useless within 100m. You might want to read that skill description Quote: "Caldari Commando Bonus: +2% damage to hyprid - railgun LIGHT weapons per level" Bolt pistols do not have the same headshot bonus, you can view this in the hotfix delta spreadsheet rattati made (click on the sniper rifles bit). Bolt pistol aim assist being insane is an unsubstantiated rumor in my experience its no different from any other hitscan pistol and honestly - I hit things with all variety of hit scan guns even when I'm not directly centered all the time. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.10 21:45:00 - [5] - Quote No, your points don't still stand - the bolt pistol is not overpowered or underpowered. I haven't commented on the state of balance of the sniper rifle, especially in comparison to the bolt pistol, all I have done is highlight the differences between them and where you are incorrect in your information. You haven't made a point on aim assistance in regards to bolt pistol because all you have done is assert things: assertions can be dismissed with the same amount of evidence that they are presented with - your assertion has zero evidence and no, that video doesn't count as it doesn't compare it rigorously with other weapons - especially when its saxon mish behind the editing. It might come as a shock but that video is about as biased as it can get. Not everything you 'see' is true, especially when it can be spun (here's a video that illustrates on that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcoTUFoDDRc) Who cares if the bolt pistol has a faster RoF or if it does one more damage? It doesn't have the range of a sniper - I'm not even sure why you're comparing it to a sniper rifle other than maybe someone went "HURR POCKET SNIPER". If you want make nonsensical comparisons, why not compare the bolt pistol to a forge gun? Or a plasma cannon - they both have similar spool up times, they both fire one round between spooling. Or why not nova knives they're sidearms, they have a spoolup too, they also do more damage than sniper rifles. Or maybe we can compare bolt pistols to scrambler rifles firing charged shots. I'd like for you to PROVE that bolt pistol aim assist is different from any other hitscan weapon, because all hitscan weapons can have wacky performance. You are succumbing to groupthink and confirmation bias on something that you have no actual substantive proof of. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Mina Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.11 02:49:00 - [6] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: the BP has crazy aim assist when not ADS. (YOU MUST BE BLIND IF YOU THINK IT IS THE SAME AS OTHER WEAPONS). Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Repeating something ad nauseum does not make it true. I fired a shotgun while jumping over someone earlier today, I was over top of the other player and aiming down and at an angle where he wasn't even on my SCREEN and I still hit and killed him, do you see me going "OMG SHOTGUNS OP"? No because I know there are a great many reasons that could have happened. All hitscan weapons can have some crazy things go on. Your statement right here is loaded with fallacies, in particular I'd like to poing out groupthink, bandwagoning and cofirmation bias - all are fallacious. In particular you're anchoring and that's preventing you from using your critical thinking skills on this matter. Vegetation Monster wrote: But look at in the IRL perspective. SNIPERS DO MORE DAMAGE THAN DAM PISTOLS. Snipers are huge heavy rifles- they should be doing more damage than little pistols. It is common sense. I know this is Dust 514 but still, it could at least have a little bit of realism in it. The bolt pistol is a pueeny little rail sidearm where the sniper is a very very long rail primary weapon. It just makes sense if the Sniper does more damage. And if you account the length of the sniper for the range it has, least they could do is make it do like a crap ton of damage up close. I am not incredibly well versed on or terribly knowledgeable about rifles and I personally believe you are arguing this from a position of ignorance yourself. However I do know that quite often pistols are large caliber and have high muzzle velocities (but not so high as to overpenetrate). There's a reason that some people when going hunting will carry a pistol specifically for dealing with something like bears - they are designed for single lethal shots at shorter ranges. Overpenetration is actually a negative thing in many cases, because bullets are designed to deform and ones that either break up inside the target or get lodged can actually be far worse to deal with. In particular I have a picture saved on my hard drive of a fifty cal sniper rifle (one of those "DOES MORE DAMAGE ANTI MATERIAL RIFLE", I really wish I could find it, but it would take hours) round shot into ballistics gel and due to the way bullet deformation (one of the factors that makes exit wounds bigger than entrance wounds with bullet) works when penetrating the bullet fired from the 50cal SR goes 6 inches into the target in a small straight narrow line before the size of the bullet wound actually starts to expand. Now when shooting at people, unless you're standing on top of them you've only got about 6 inches before your bullet passes right through them, meaning that the 'does more damage!!!!!" sniper rifle would actually do less because the bullet doesn't have time to deform inside the target and create the "omg massive exit wound". Now of course we're not shooting at unarmored flesh and we'd require higher velocities simply to penetrate armor, but even just displacing armor and having the bullet deform and stay lodged inside the clone could be beneficial - as our nanite enhanced physiology is unlikely to be able to deal with that. (In 'reality' though, anything that penetrates our armor is likely to kill us and we'd just jump conciousness over to a new clone). It also depends entirely upon the type of pistol and the type of rifle in question. Also overpenetration is a MASSIVE factor when dealing with rail weaponry (which is F = ma weaponized), a sniper rifle would be worthless up close because of overpenetration - it's designed to hit things 450m away (longer if we're talking about fluff rather than game mechanics) compared to the pistol being designed to not overpenetrate and kill things up close. Now in regards to the bolt pistol specifically - have you looked at the armature size on the model? The rails on the bolt pistol are bigger than the magsec in its entirety and are bigger than the forearm of the EIGHT FOOT TALL POWER ARMOR WEARING MERCENARY HOLDING IT. This thing is bigger than a civilian RIFLE. In its range it would destroy the mercenary holding a sniper rifle. In short your argument about "realism" has absolutely no basis upon reality. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.* I have a few alts.