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Vegetation Monster
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The Empire of New Eden
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Posted - 2015.08.06 14:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Would you guys disagree with buffing with standard variant sniper rifle damage? For example Ishukone Sniper would go from 250 damage to 280 damage? Everything else remains the same.
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Vegetation Monster
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The Empire of New Eden
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Posted - 2015.08.06 14:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Raven-747 wrote:No it does not need a buff.
Oh really, is that why a prototype ishukone sniper can't even OHK a militia scout with a basic armor plate with a body shot?
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Vegetation Monster
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Posted - 2015.08.06 18:10:00 -
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Dewie Cheecham wrote:Larkson Crazy Eye wrote:Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite. So, basically you are saying that because Snipers were nerfed into obsolescence, they are now worthless, and before they can be re tasked to be useful again, they shouldn't have the damage the nerfs did reversed? Snipers are extremely low RoF, yet only medium damage. Some sidearms do more damage than a Proto Sniper rifle, and have far superior hit detection. Take the Bolt pistol for instance. Just aim in the general direction, and the aim assist will take care of the rest, where as snipers have absolutely no aim assist, or any to speak of, and are helliously hard to aim at even standing targets, hitting moving targets is more luck than anything, and getting a kill? Well, try to do three impossible things in a row, and you might get a kill shot.
Also, A proto Bolt pistol does 1 more damage than a proto sniper and it has faster RoF. Now compare the side of bolt pistol and sniper.
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Vegetation Monster
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The Empire of New Eden
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Posted - 2015.08.06 18:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gydian Dubois wrote:I'm not an elite sniper but the kills thing is wrong. I'm good, don't get me wrong. But I average 12 to 20 a match, most being headshots. And I use Thale's but rarely. More of a Symb's guy. To the OP, nah it doesn't need a buff. It's all about shot placement.
Shot placement. What shot placement when 50% of shots are missed due to hit detection. You do realize that a Ishukone Sniper does 1 less damage than a bolt pistol and has lower RoF. Do you also know that sidearm damage mods give more damage bonus than light damage mods therefore potentially the Bolt Pistol can have higher damages. Also, do you know that the proto bolt pistol costs less than ishukone sniper and it is a literally a pocket sniper (which is better than a real sniper).
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Vegetation Monster
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Posted - 2015.08.10 15:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
jace silencerww wrote:Larkson Crazy Eye wrote:Honestly till they give snipers are real valid role on the battlefield I don't think they need anything. As it stands now their just some dudes up on a roof top or in the redline taking pop shots at people. Your average sniper accomplishes nothing to do with the objective and gets less kills than some one running around in a starter fit. Even Thale using snipers might get 5-10 kills a match if their not one of the super elite.
The problem is buffing dmg, increasing range etc to make snipers more deadly causes far to many problems. We don't want the snipers to have the ability to sniper people from the other side of the map again. Remember those "good" old days when a sniper could sit inside the MCC, or on top of it and hit the enemy redline? Yeah lots of fun...
The problem is making snipers deadly ruins the game for just about every one else and puts the snipers in very low risk situations. Frankly more than increasing dmg, or range I think they need to better work the close range aspect of snipers. Quick scoping and less sway would be great. Most other games people snipe from 100m or less, building across the street and such. Not the 400m+ redline bull crap that we get in this game. Especially since there are no bullet physics working against you in dust. You point, you shoot and the enemy takes dmg (if hit detection is working right).
There is no real delay, bullet arcs and so on. So if the dmg was increased there would be far more one shot kills from across the map. Which would be a bad thing since there is no muzzle flash and very little sound to indicate where the shot came from. You don't get the hit indicator if you die from the first shot after all. The kill feed in this game is also a lot less useful in determining where you got shot from as well, just giving the distance and weapon. LOL really 5-10 kills? i was using the kaal caldari scout before it was broke into the skin and standard cald scout with more slots. so 3 highs 1 low, use 3 krin damage mods, using the staff recruiter sniper rifle (a bpo the same as a basic sniper rifle in stats) and got 29 kills & 0 deaths and no neither side was redlined and i was about 150 at most from the objective and yes it was on a dom. the problem is most people who snipe hide in or really close to they redline. i do remember being able to snipe a red at 700+ meters while he was falling out of his MCC. my longest kill with a sniper was 795 meters. there was 2 skills for each of the heavy, light & sidearm that increased range. 1 by 25% the other by 15%. so weapons could have 40% more range but it did not help snipers shoot past 800 meters though since reds only showed up at 799 meters. some snipers can mmake a change in the battle by most are hated for long range killing that they have no defense against. just running along then bang their dead.
hey, guess what, I once used a ion pistol on a militia Minmatar scout with less than 200 HP in PC and got 36 kills and only 2 deaths. <- because of this fake sotry, I hereby say that no buffs needed to ion pistol.
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Vegetation Monster
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316
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Posted - 2015.08.10 15:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:Gydian Dubois wrote:I'm not an elite sniper but the kills thing is wrong. I'm good, don't get me wrong. But I average 12 to 20 a match, most being headshots. And I use Thale's but rarely. More of a Symb's guy. To the OP, nah it doesn't need a buff. It's all about shot placement. Shot placement. What shot placement when 50% of shots are missed due to hit detection. You do realize that a Ishukone Sniper does 1 less damage than a bolt pistol and has lower RoF. Do you also know that sidearm damage mods give more damage bonus than light damage mods therefore potentially the Bolt Pistol can have higher damages. Also, do you know that the proto bolt pistol costs less than ishukone sniper and it is a literally a pocket sniper (which is better than a real sniper). You also realise that all sniper rifles have considerably higher damage multipliers on headshots right? They also have dramatically longer ranges and don't lose damage until 350 -> 450m depending on variant. You also realise that snipers benefit from cal commando bonus and warbarge bonuses and bolt pistols don't right? Now provided you were silly enough to put 3 sidearm damage mods on a bolt pistol fit, you'd only get ~26.4% increased damage Were you to fit 3x complex light damage mods on a cal commando (level 5) you'd get ~30% increased damage *and* 25% increased reload speed AND a second light weapon... Plus warbarge bonus (which is multiplicative to the headshot bonus and proficiency bonus - should you have warbarge and proficiency maxed out you're getting roughly 362% headshot damage on standard variants) So yeah, stop trying to skew the numbers thanks. Bolt pistols have low damage per magazine, even in comparison to other sidearms and especially so in comparison to actual rifles, they also have **** all for range - especially if you're relying on hipfire auto aim compensations, try hitting someone reliably at 80m while aimed down sights with a bolt pistol (you start losing damage past 47m with a bolt pistol, and at 80m are only doing 28% damage)
Are you ********? Calmando bonus is 10% damage bonus to all RAIL WEAPONS which includes Bolt Pistols. Also, bolt pistols have I believe the same Headshot bonus (maybe a little less around 275%) but bolt pistol has aim assist stronger than diamonds. Also, yes bolt pistols have less range,but bolt pistols are useless in long range just as sniper is useless within 100m.
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Vegetation Monster
G0DS AM0NG MEN
The Empire of New Eden
317
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Posted - 2015.08.10 21:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:
Are you ********? Calmando bonus is 10% damage bonus to all RAIL WEAPONS which includes Bolt Pistols. Also, bolt pistols have I believe the same Headshot bonus (maybe a little less around 275%) but bolt pistol has aim assist stronger than diamonds. Also, yes bolt pistols have less range,but bolt pistols are useless in long range just as sniper is useless within 100m.
You might want to read that skill description Quote:"Caldari Commando Bonus: +2% damage to hyprid - railgun LIGHT weapons per level" Bolt pistols do not have the same headshot bonus, you can view this in the hotfix deltaspreadsheet rattati made (click on the sniper rifles bit). Bolt pistol aim assist being insane is an unsubstantiated rumor. in my experience its no different from any other hitscan pistol and honestly - I hit things with all variety of hit scan guns even when I'm not directly centered all the time.
Okay you are right that Bolt pistol does not get commando bous but still 225% headshot bonus is higher than the tactical snipers 200% and only a little bit lower than 300% of a Standard Sniper. Not to mention that a head shot with a bolt pistol is as easy as it gets. You don't even have to aim down sights for them (as shown in Saxonmishs videos).
But, my points still stand. Bolt pistol is way more OP than Sniper rifle. Truthfully, sniper rifle is no where near OP and sadly no where near balanced either because it is basically one of the most under powered weapons and roles in the game.
Yes, the aim assist on BP is crazy, and it doesn't get bothered by hit detection. also- THE THING IS A SIDEARM that has faster RoF than the standard snipers and it does 1 more base damage than the proto Sniper.
Also, lets not forget that you can pretty much ask anyone on the forums "What is more OP, sniper or BP" and anyone with a brain will say Bolt Pistol.
BTW- go watch this and tell me that bolt pistol is worse than sniper.
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Vegetation Monster
G0DS AM0NG MEN
The Empire of New Eden
318
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Posted - 2015.08.11 01:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:No, your points don't still stand - the bolt pistol is not overpowered or underpowered. I haven't commented on the state of balance of the sniper rifle, especially in comparison to the bolt pistol, all I have done is highlight the differences between them and where you are incorrect in your information. You haven't made a point on aim assistance in regards to bolt pistol because all you have done is assert things: assertions can be dismissed with the same amount of evidence that they are presented with - your assertion has zero evidence and no, that video doesn't count as it doesn't compare it rigorously with other weapons - especially when its saxon mish behind the editing. It might come as a shock but that video is about as biased as it can get. Not everything you 'see' is true, especially when it can be spun (here's a video that illustrates on that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcoTUFoDDRc) Who cares if the bolt pistol has a faster RoF or if it does one more damage? It doesn't have the range of a sniper - I'm not even sure why you're comparing it to a sniper rifle other than maybe someone went "HURR POCKET SNIPER". If you want make nonsensical comparisons, why not compare the bolt pistol to a forge gun? Or a plasma cannon - they both have similar spool up times, they both fire one round between spooling. Or why not nova knives they're sidearms, they have a spoolup too, they also do more damage than sniper rifles. Or maybe we can compare bolt pistols to scrambler rifles firing charged shots. I'd like for you to PROVE that bolt pistol aim assist is different from any other hitscan weapon, because all hitscan weapons can have wacky performance. You are succumbing to groupthink and confirmation bias on something that you have no actual substantive proof of.
These weapons are very comparable if you factor out range. But:
Okay, sniper has more range but it's completely useless within 100m. The bolt pistol is very useful (Due to the fact that you don't even have to ADS to have shots hits at 30m and it does equal to or greater than the to Sniper Damage) but it is useless at sniper ranges.
Now, forget the range stuff and look at snipers skill vs Bolt pistol user skill. The sniper has horrible hit detection along with absolutely no Aim Assist what so ever. (Also don't forget that people look like ants even through our scopes). Bolt pistol on the other hand believe it or not the BP has crazy aim assist when not ADS. (YOU MUST BE BLIND IF YOU THINK IT IS THE SAME AS OTHER WEAPONS). The cross hairs are huge but still 90% of the time the bullet hits even if our target takes only 50% of the cross hairs. Also, the head shots are no-brainer-no-skill. They happen with ease and you don't even have to aim down sights. Go watch the dam video again. It's not even the fact that Saxonmish is good, it's just that the weapon is EZ-mode.
But look at in the IRL perspective. SNIPERS DO MORE DAMAGE THAN DAM PISTOLS. Snipers are huge heavy rifles- they should be doing more damage than little pistols. It is common sense. I know this is Dust 514 but still, it could at least have a little bit of realism in it. The bolt pistol is a pueeny little rail sidearm where the sniper is a very very long rail primary weapon. It just makes sense if the Sniper does more damage. And if you account the length of the sniper for the range it has, least they could do is make it do like a crap ton of damage up close.
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Vegetation Monster
G0DS AM0NG MEN
The Empire of New Eden
323
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Posted - 2015.08.12 15:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:This morning I was killed repeatedly by standard Sniper rifles at over 400m, but it was not just a Solo Sniper.
I know this because I was hit by two Sniper bullets in about 0.3 seconds. Full health min Sent to dead in 0.3 seconds. A single Sniper could not fire that fast.
So, the standard Sniper Rifle is effective if there are two Snipers on Coms and calling targets for each other.
So:
Pro Buff: It is so underpowered that you need two Snipers to make a kill.
Anti Buff: If you have two Snipers working together they can be devastating.
I don't really think it has a lot of barring on the Buff Sniper Rifles debate, but it is an effective tactic which I used to use when Sniping back in Open Beta, and this is the first time I have seen effective sniper teams in a long time. I thought the Snipers in here might be interested.
Heavy suits have huge hit boxes which makes them easy to headshot bruv. Everything else is just luck.
BTW: when you have a heavy and a logi working together, they can also be devastating. So can a solo heavy unlike a solo sniper.
How often do you get killed by snipers?
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