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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
777
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Posted - 2015.08.02 01:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
As an infantry player, large blasters are destroying my suit in 1 second no matter how much HP it has. This seriously has to stop.
One Madrugar Gv.0 is enough to screw up the whole game on certain maps just because it's almost invincible AND whenever you try to take it down with AV, it kills you in a blink of an eye.
I'm sick of this BS.
Now I understand that they may not be OP against other vehicle so reducing their damage according to infantry would make them useless against anything else. So just do one simple thing : if the blaster hits vehicle/installations it'll do 100% damage on it. If it hits infantry, it'll 33% (1/3) of its damage.
There are no way of escaping a large blaster once it has barely touched you. You just get obliterated even by the militia version...
WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME !
-Sequal Rise
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.08.02 01:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well if you can survive a tank shell to the face then nerfing the blasters would make sense. I mean come on its a tank, you're not supposed to be able to survive an encounter with it unless you're prepared
Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
779
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Posted - 2015.08.02 01:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Georgia Xavier wrote:Well if you can survive a tank shell to the face then nerfing the blasters would make sense. I mean come on its a tank, you're not supposed to be able to survive an encounter with it unless you're prepared
ISKs shouldn't buy invicibility and super powers.
Plus, it's a game.
WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME !
-Sequal Rise
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.08.02 01:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:Well if you can survive a tank shell to the face then nerfing the blasters would make sense. I mean come on its a tank, you're not supposed to be able to survive an encounter with it unless you're prepared ISKs shouldn't buy invicibility and super powers. Plus, it's a game.
Just because it's a game doesn't mean it shouldn't make any sense. Why with that logic Why not just give infantry pure immortality because "it's a game"
Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
780
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Posted - 2015.08.02 01:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Georgia Xavier wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:Well if you can survive a tank shell to the face then nerfing the blasters would make sense. I mean come on its a tank, you're not supposed to be able to survive an encounter with it unless you're prepared ISKs shouldn't buy invicibility and super powers. Plus, it's a game. Just because it's a game doesn't mean it shouldn't make any sense. Why with that logic Why not just give infantry pure immortality because "it's a game"
I've never said such things. Don't play the fool please, you perfectly understood what I mean.
Large blasters are definitly overpowered against infantry and they need to have their damage (on infantry) reduced by a lot.
You've not been playing dust as an infantry player for a while if you think I'm exagerating this.
WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME !
-Sequal Rise
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Georgia Xavier
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.08.02 01:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:Well if you can survive a tank shell to the face then nerfing the blasters would make sense. I mean come on its a tank, you're not supposed to be able to survive an encounter with it unless you're prepared ISKs shouldn't buy invicibility and super powers. Plus, it's a game. Just because it's a game doesn't mean it shouldn't make any sense. Why with that logic Why not just give infantry pure immortality because "it's a game" I've never said such things. Don't play the fool please, you perfectly understood what I mean. Large blasters are definitly overpowered against infantry and they need to have their damage (on infantry) reduced by a lot. You've not been playing dust as an infantry player for a while if you think I'm exagerating this.
I've been killed by blasters many more times than I can count and sure it's frustrating but man it makes absolutely no sense for a tank to do no damage to infantry reasons because it's an anti infantry weapon mainly. The Rails is the anti tank weapon.
Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
782
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Posted - 2015.08.02 01:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Georgia Xavier wrote:I've been killed by blasters many more times than I can count and sure it's frustrating but man it makes absolutely no sense for a tank to do no damage to infantry reasons because it's an anti infantry weapon mainly. The Rails is the anti tank weapon.
I know.. so reduce their base damage. They are just too high. I'm just looking for a way to make them still viable against other tanks / installations while reducing their damage on infantry cause they are way too high. Agreed that they are anti infantry weapon, but for balance's sake they need a damage reduction.
WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME !
-Sequal Rise
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
608
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Posted - 2015.08.02 03:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
As a player whose character-specialty gives me lots of time to observe how these turrets work in a fight, I have to disagree with lowering the Blaster Installation or Large Blaster Turret's performance. With almost no (GǪalmost no) chance to destroy oncoming HAVs or skilled Dropship-ers, that turret's only role is to put the fear of Moses into any infantry stepping out solo into its firezone.
... Time and time again we console players bump into that invisible reminder that Eve Dust 514 is NOT an fps meant for bopping around the board constantly alone and tackling enemy pieces Arc the Lad or Super Mario does in their games. Other games design obstacles and enemies to be destroyed by you autonomously, with just the right kind of tactic or procedure. Autonomous tactics and autonomous encounters are frowned upon and seriously handicapped in Dust.
The Large Gun on a platform is intended to hold its own against a few blue players----get overrun by blue players working quickly together to assault it---and for most loners who fail to identify the Gun and simply scoot around rather than face it, will obviously squash the loner just for target practice.
Many players don't lose their lives at all to a Blaster HAV----because they see it and circumnavigate the clumsy thing, OR, they approach it with the proper apparatus/buddies to chase it off or destroy it. It's a problem that's not meant to be tackled 1-v-1.
There are times when I know my team can win this match, if I just deliberately run up and sacrifice myself to distract an enemy Large Blaster,GǪ but, painful to say, the change needs to be in the number of times you allow yourself to have a lone-encounter with a Large Blaster, not how happy the Large Blaster is going to be to see you there aloneGǪ.
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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DeadlyAztec11
8
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Posted - 2015.08.02 04:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
I understand where you are coming from. I'm a veteran AV player. I was dedicated AV way before Commandos were ever a reality. I had Prototype Swarm Launchers before most people even knew they existed.
That said, AV is very balanced right now. It's true that Madrugars are very difficult to kill, though there are definitely cost effective ways of killing them. Skill into either Swarm Launchers or the Plasma Cannon, skill into AV grenades, skill into AV grenades and get a militia Minmatar Scout. Sneak up behind that SOB, plant the explosives, throw all three advanced packed AV grenades, shoot him as many times as you can with your AV light weapon and activate the remote explosives when he is out of sight.
If he is more of a hit and run type of player then get a forge gun and AV grenades. Find a good vantage point and given him hell.
I highly recommend going for a high strafe suit with a cardiac regulator and a Complex Myofibril Stimulant if you really want to dance.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
12
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Posted - 2015.08.02 04:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Georgia Xavier wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:Well if you can survive a tank shell to the face then nerfing the blasters would make sense. I mean come on its a tank, you're not supposed to be able to survive an encounter with it unless you're prepared ISKs shouldn't buy invicibility and super powers. Plus, it's a game. Just because it's a game doesn't mean it shouldn't make any sense. Why with that logic Why not just give infantry pure immortality because "it's a game"
Realism is no excuse for poor balancing, if there indeed is poor balancing. Above all this is a game, and balance is much more important in a game then making things fit with your common sense. An unbalanced game is not fun, and fun is the whole point.
@OP, I never liked the idea of large turrets being so good at killing infantry. Tanks already have massive amounts of HP and more speed compared to infantry in addition to being immune to most infantry weapons, it isn't fair to give such things the ability to rack up easy kills from defenseless infantry. Small turrets should be designed for anti-infantry, but large turrets should be designed for fighting other tanks. Large blasters were changed in the past to have more dispersion to make them less infantry kill-farmers, bu the damage is so high at prototype tier that a handful of shots out of a dozen missed shots is enough to get kills. In my opinion, the large blasters should have been designed to shoot like plasma cannons -- kind of like the railguns, but with lower damage, higher ROF. Railguns are a great example of a large turret being extremely powerful, yet balanced against infantry.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
12
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Posted - 2015.08.02 04:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I understand where you are coming from. I'm a veteran AV player. I was dedicated AV way before Commandos were ever a reality. I had Prototype Swarm Launchers before most people even knew they existed.
That said, AV is very balanced right now. It's true that Madrugars are very difficult to kill, though there are definitely cost effective ways of killing them. Skill into either Swarm Launchers or the Plasma Cannon, skill into AV grenades, skill into AV grenades and get a militia Minmatar Scout. Sneak up behind that SOB, plant the explosives, throw all three advanced packed AV grenades, shoot him as many times as you can with your AV light weapon and activate the remote explosives when he is out of sight.
If he is more of a hit and run type of player then get a forge gun and AV grenades. Find a good vantage point and given him hell.
I highly recommend going for a high strafe suit with a cardiac regulator and a Complex Myofibril Stimulant if you really want to dance.
As someone who is heavily skilled into forge guns, I can take care of many tanks, but I still find it to be a fundamental issue that a large turret should be so good at killing infantry. Small turrets should be for hunting infantry, but large turrets should be reserved for hunting tanks and installations (I think Rattati echoed similar ideas on their intended roles before, but it's probably long burried). I don't think large blasters need a nerf, but a complete retooling of how they function to encourage anti-tank instead of anti-infantry.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
785
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Posted - 2015.08.02 10:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I understand where you are coming from. I'm a veteran AV player. I was dedicated AV way before Commandos were ever a reality. I had Prototype Swarm Launchers before most people even knew they existed.
That said, AV is very balanced right now. It's true that Madrugars are very difficult to kill, though there are definitely cost effective ways of killing them. Skill into either Swarm Launchers or the Plasma Cannon, skill into AV grenades, skill into AV grenades and get a militia Minmatar Scout. Sneak up behind that SOB, plant the explosives, throw all three advanced packed AV grenades, shoot him as many times as you can with your AV light weapon and activate the remote explosives when he is out of sight.
If he is more of a hit and run type of player then get a forge gun and AV grenades. Find a good vantage point and given him hell.
I highly recommend going for a high strafe suit with a cardiac regulator and a Complex Myofibril Stimulant if you really want to dance.
I don't think we've ever played together Astec, because I'm the one tryhard who'll do anything to put that tank down. I have maxed swams prof 4 with commando mk.0, maxed PLC with fast scout and REs and still these things are completely unefficient against the actual tanks.
I've been doing what you are telling me and it used to work. But now the large blasters are way too powerful to try anything. It's not balanced at all.
1 guy in an expensive tank shouldn't need 3-4 GOOD AV players to kill him. That's what balanced is all about and that's the main problem with Av vs Vehicles. Vehicle players think they should be invincible "because they are in a goddam tank" so they QQed to get a buff. CCP f*cked up again and now madrugars are back to be these unkillable death machines.
@Celestia : I'm not stupidly rushing tanks. I do everything to avoid them and get them at range. But even at 100m these Large blasters will suck the life out of you in 2 shots !
On the teamwork part, how am I suppose to win the match if my 4 man squad (who's 99% of the time the only one playing) goes AV with still little chances to get that tank down? Who's gonna take care of enemy infantry?
WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME !
-Sequal Rise
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Sgt Kirk
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.02 13:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
I dont even worry about blaster tanks anymore because its pretty damn easy to avoid them and counter them if you're not out in the open.
Blaster tanks are best at seizing and objective or assaulting open area.
There are too many times where I see blueberries with a chance to take out a tank by going in and out of cover (near buildings) but he gets too greedy and instead of waiting for at least his shields to get back up he pops out of cover again with only 60hp left and guess what? He dies because he couldn't wait a few seconds to get that last shot off.
That happens constantly in this game.
-A vote for me is a vote for us
You can vote for CPM 2 [here]
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1
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Posted - 2015.08.02 18:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:I dont even worry about blaster tanks anymore because its pretty damn easy to avoid them and counter them if you're not out in the open. (of course I do worry about them but they aren't a big of a threat to me if I take the proper precautions and environment is right.)
Blaster tanks are best at seizing and objective or assaulting open area.
There are too many times where I see blueberries with a chance to take out a tank by going in and out of cover (near buildings) but he gets too greedy and instead of waiting for at least his shields to get back up he pops out of cover again with only 60hp left and guess what? He dies because he couldn't wait a few seconds to get that last shot off.
That happens constantly in this game.
I can't tell you how many times I have seen someone take those few seconds to let their shields come back only to see the tank has it's shields back as well and has repositioned to pin them down.
Because, that's why.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
20
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Posted - 2015.08.02 19:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I understand where you are coming from. I'm a veteran AV player. I was dedicated AV way before Commandos were ever a reality. I had Prototype Swarm Launchers before most people even knew they existed.
That said, AV is very balanced right now. It's true that Madrugars are very difficult to kill, though there are definitely cost effective ways of killing them. Skill into either Swarm Launchers or the Plasma Cannon, skill into AV grenades, skill into AV grenades and get a militia Minmatar Scout. Sneak up behind that SOB, plant the explosives, throw all three advanced packed AV grenades, shoot him as many times as you can with your AV light weapon and activate the remote explosives when he is out of sight.
If he is more of a hit and run type of player then get a forge gun and AV grenades. Find a good vantage point and given him hell.
I highly recommend going for a high strafe suit with a cardiac regulator and a Complex Myofibril Stimulant if you really want to dance. As someone who is heavily skilled into forge guns, I can take care of many tanks, but I still find it to be a fundamental issue that a large turret should be so good at killing infantry. Small turrets should be for hunting infantry, but large turrets should be reserved for hunting tanks and installations (I think Rattati echoed similar ideas on their intended roles before, but it's probably long burried). I don't think large blasters need a nerf, but a complete retooling of how they function to encourage anti-tank instead of anti-infantry.
I'm not sure I agree with specifically reserved for hunting Tanks however I do agree that large turrets should be better suited to that task. However I do with for HAV main guns to function as main battle cannon though this would require the turrets to gain greater range and an explosive AoE upon detonation....arguably pilots should also have access to a small co-axial turret to some degree.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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benandjerrys
Vader's-Fist
476
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Posted - 2015.08.02 20:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
The main gun is somewhat easy mode due to it being attached to the main controls of the tank. I rarely tank now, but drawing out of my experience with star wars battlefront this has and will continue being really deadly. If tankers had to rely on a gunner for the main gun it would be completely different, but I don't think myself or anyone would buy into that.
ONE UNIVERSE//ONE WAR
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
12
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Posted - 2015.08.02 21:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:
ISKs shouldn't buy invicibility and super powers.
^ This.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
20
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Posted - 2015.08.02 22:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:
ISKs shouldn't buy invicibility and super powers.
^ This. Alternative Suggestion: Decide whether Large Blaster turrets are anti-vehicle or anti-infantry. If AV, substantially increase dispersion. If AI, substantially reduce range.
ISK however should buy greater battlefield efficiency. That is more or less the purpose of it. As for your balancing suggestion neither will benefit the Large Blaster in its intended role for the weapon itself has long been inappropriate as a tank main gun.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.03 09:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gv.0 issue isn't the cannon, it's the combo of hardener and regen.
You actually need to fit a module to make the heavy blaster accurate vs infantry. It's also an active mod. Otherwise the dispersion is stupid wide.
It just comes back to the fact that 1 player doesn't equal one player.
And as long as it takes 6-7 matches for an average player to afford a single Gv.0 there will always be a demand they be functionally overpowered in play.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
12
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Posted - 2015.08.03 14:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:
ISKs shouldn't buy invicibility and super powers.
^ This. Alternative Suggestion: Decide whether Large Blaster turrets are anti-vehicle or anti-infantry. If AV, substantially increase dispersion. If AI, substantially reduce range. ISK however should buy greater battlefield efficiency. That is more or less the purpose of it. As for your balancing suggestion neither will benefit the Large Blaster in its intended role for the weapon itself has long been inappropriate as a tank main gun.
Sounds great! Let's work on that. Meanwhile, Large Blasters are OP. How 'bout we make them less OP while we figure out what "intended role" would be good and balanced.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Sgt Kirk
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.08.03 15:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Things would be a lot better if the blaster worked as a bigger version of the plasma cannon.
-A vote for me is a vote for us
You can vote for CPM 2 [here]
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.08.03 15:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Things would be a lot better if the blaster worked as a bigger version of the plasma cannon.
Then bump my damn post!!! HAV Ducktape balance!!
Sequal!! dry those tears and get back to work!! *cracks whip*
Trainwreck forum posting prof.5
Sorry I am too busy to come to the phone right now, I am actually playing the game.
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PLAYSTTION
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
1
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Posted - 2015.08.03 15:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:I've been killed by blasters many more times than I can count and sure it's frustrating but man it makes absolutely no sense for a tank to do no damage to infantry reasons because it's an anti infantry weapon mainly. The Rails is the anti tank weapon. I know.. so reduce their base damage. They are just too high. I'm just looking for a way to make them still viable against other tanks / installations while reducing their damage on infantry cause they are way too high. Agreed that they are anti infantry weapon, but for balance's sake they need a damage reduction.
??? It already has been balanced, there is no problem here. It is way better than it is in the old days and rarely even happens. All you need is AV nades to deter him and thats it!
Galassault Galogi Galsent Galmando Galscout
Open Beta Vet - 48 mil sp
Director of Corrosive Synergy
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Cesar Geronimo
DUST University
Ivy League
31
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Posted - 2015.08.03 18:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:As an infantry player, large blasters are destroying my suit in 1 second no matter how much HP it has. This seriously has to stop.
One Madrugar Gv.0 is enough to screw up the whole game on certain maps just because it's almost invincible AND whenever you try to take it down with AV, it kills you in a blink of an eye.
I'm sick of this BS.
Now I understand that they may not be OP against other vehicle so reducing their damage according to infantry would make them useless against anything else. So just do one simple thing : if the blaster hits vehicle/installations it'll do 100% damage on it. If it hits infantry, it'll 33% (1/3) of its damage.
There are no way of escaping a large blaster once it has barely touched you. You just get obliterated even by the militia version...
You must have missed the golden days when blasters had more damage, less heat buildup, AND pinpoint accuracy with minimal spread...
I'll wholeheartedly agree tanks need a bunch of changes to stop the Proto Maddie noobalympics, but the heavy blaster by itself is more or less in a good place, imo... |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3
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Posted - 2015.08.03 20:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:As an infantry player, large blasters are destroying my suit in 1 second no matter how much HP it has. This seriously has to stop.
One Madrugar Gv.0 is enough to screw up the whole game on certain maps just because it's almost invincible AND whenever you try to take it down with AV, it kills you in a blink of an eye.
I'm sick of this BS.
Now I understand that they may not be OP against other vehicle so reducing their damage according to infantry would make them useless against anything else. So just do one simple thing : if the blaster hits vehicle/installations it'll do 100% damage on it. If it hits infantry, it'll 33% (1/3) of its damage.
There are no way of escaping a large blaster once it has barely touched you. You just get obliterated even by the militia version...
Sounds like someone doesn't know what AV is supposed to do. It's not a vehicle problem, it's a "I won't take care of the problem" problem, and a "someone else needs to do it or I'll go on the forums and cry about it."
PS3 is back in its box.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3
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Posted - 2015.08.03 20:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
PLAYSTTION wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:Georgia Xavier wrote:I've been killed by blasters many more times than I can count and sure it's frustrating but man it makes absolutely no sense for a tank to do no damage to infantry reasons because it's an anti infantry weapon mainly. The Rails is the anti tank weapon. I know.. so reduce their base damage. They are just too high. I'm just looking for a way to make them still viable against other tanks / installations while reducing their damage on infantry cause they are way too high. Agreed that they are anti infantry weapon, but for balance's sake they need a damage reduction. ??? It already has been balanced, there is no problem here. It is way better than it is in the old days and rarely even happens. All you need is AV nades to deter him and thats it!
What are you talking about? Chromosome blasters were lightyears ahead of what we have now.
PS3 is back in its box.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
3
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Posted - 2015.08.03 20:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Things would be a lot better if the blaster worked as a bigger version of the plasma cannon.
I think both large and small blasters would both function better as long range shotguns - they'd be able to apply damage to infantry but not be murdertastic to them. It would keep them more oriented to killing other vehicles or installations.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
20
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Posted - 2015.08.03 21:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Things would be a lot better if the blaster worked as a bigger version of the plasma cannon. I think both large and small blasters would both function better as long range shotguns - they'd be able to apply damage to infantry but not be murdertastic to them. It would keep them more oriented to killing other vehicles or installations.
It really depends. If you justify it more or less as a form of charged electron canister round I think we could skate by on that nicely so long as the weapon does allow damage application to fair ranges even if the bulk of the spread is missed. However so long as the weapon is primed as an Automatic Assault Shotgun I fear it has no real business being on the main gun of an HAV.
The Plasma Cannon model I'd simply argue might be slightly easier to attain given that it already has a recognisable set of animations/arcs/behaviour or what have you and just tacked onto the Large Blaster Model it doesn't seem too implausible a weapon.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Chosokabe Ite
Shields Of The State
93
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Posted - 2015.08.04 02:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Those blaster tanks aren't so scary when you got a swarm launcher or a plasma cannon. Hell, I'm thinking about a commando fit with both. Yeah, I'll be useless against everything else, but hey, could be fun. |
MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
3
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Posted - 2015.08.04 03:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Chosokabe Ite wrote:Those blaster tanks aren't so scary when you got a swarm launcher or a plasma cannon. Hell, I'm thinking about a commando fit with both. Yeah, I'll be useless against everything else, but hey, could be fun.
10000+ ehp, ~500 reps/second with the current meta fit
They're plenty scary unless you've got FAR too many people shooting at them.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
952
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Posted - 2015.08.04 07:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
Georgia Xavier wrote:Well if you can survive a tank shell to the face then nerfing the blasters would make sense. I mean come on its a tank, you're not supposed to be able to survive an encounter with it unless you're prepared
Meanwhile antitank weapons cant kill tanks, despite the fact that real life tanks get their **** pushed in the second an anti tank weapon looks their way.
Your logic is great until you apply it both ways, then it breaks down completely given the realities of dust and the real world. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.04 07:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
Sounds great! Let's work on that. Meanwhile, Large Blasters are ridiculously effective at killing infantry. And everything else, for that matter. How 'bout we make them less so, as an interim fix, while we contemplate and debate what "intended role" would be good and balanced.
Adipem this post comes off like:
"You make good counterpoints! But we're going to ignore them in favor of discussing how we're going to nerf your sh*t."
This is the source of 99% of hostile reactions to your posts. Might want to check how you phrase things.
Large turret machinegun is IMHO a sh*t design. I'm with adamance on this. The HAV cannons don't feel like cannons.
The heavy blaster feels like a scaled up .50 cal.
The railgun is functionally identical to the bolt pistol for tankhunting.
It's not "too effective at killing infantry." It's utterly sh*t for killing infantry. Tank drivers are fitting the active mod that makes them shoot straight, and the ones who do it sacrifice their ability to use the nigh unto biblically difficult to kill madrugars.
So no, the premise of this post is pretty bad.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
12
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Posted - 2015.08.04 14:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
It's not "too effective at killing infantry." It's utterly sh*t for killing infantry. Tank drivers are fitting the active mod that makes them shoot straight, and the ones who do it sacrifice their ability to use the nigh unto biblically difficult to kill madrugars.
So no, the premise of this post is pretty bad.
Fact: Large Blasters might be "utter sh*t" against high HP units (I don't know), but they're obscenely effective at dispatching low-to-medium HP units, even at long range.
Opinion: If these are in fact an AV Weapon, Large Blaster turrets are absolutely too effective at killing infantry. If they're instead an AI Weapon, then Blaster Tanks should be less resistant to infantry AV and nigh helpless when up against Missile / Rail HAVs.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
12
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Posted - 2015.08.04 14:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Adipem this post comes off like:
"You make good counterpoints! But we're going to ignore them in favor of discussing how we're going to nerf your sh*t."
This is the source of 99% of hostile reactions to your posts. Might want to check how you phrase things.
You read that right.
When we have a problem, we should address that problem. Yes, let's flesh out together a lore-friendly, mechanically complex utopian solution that everyone can get on board with. But while we wax and wane utopian, why not do something specific and practical to address and lessen the problem?
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.04 15:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
I see you didn't read my posts about blasters requiring a dispersion mod. Good show.
And bluntly, low to mid HP suits die fast. It's what they do. It's not unfair. It's the price you pay for your fitting choices.
Every suit has strength and weakness. Low base HP suits have higher mobility but pay for that with fragility.
And bluntly I think your penchant gor demanding nerfs for every damn thing under the sun is annoying as sh*t. Never once in the last three months can I recall you suggesting that something be brought up to match the competition. Just incessant demands that this be nerfed, that be nerfed, and your argument is always "low HP suits."
Low HP suits are fragile. Working as intended, move the f*ck along.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.04 15:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
You read that right.
Then I have absolutely no respect for this line of argument and will not bother trying to be civil, because that tack of debate is ass. I consider the people who use it to be self-entitled little pricks barely worthy of notice much less respect.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
12
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Posted - 2015.08.04 15:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
You read that right.
Then I have absolutely no respect for this line of argument and will not bother trying to be civil, because that tack of debate is ass. I consider the people who consider it acceptable it to be self-entitled little pricks barely worthy of notice much less respect.
If your horse is too high or brow too furrowed to hear an informed opinion, then so be it. Though this begs the question. If you can't be bothered to hear informed opinions, what opinions will you hear if elected CPM?
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.04 16:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
You read that right.
Then I have absolutely no respect for this line of argument and will not bother trying to be civil, because that tack of debate is ass. I consider the people who consider it acceptable it to be self-entitled little pricks barely worthy of notice much less respect. If your horse is too high or brow too furrowed to hear an informed opinion, then so be it. Though this begs the question. If you can't be bothered to hear informed opinions, what opinions will you hear if elected CPM?
Because dismissing other peoples' points as though they were irrelevant isn't exactly what most consider worthwhile debate. It's an indication that you have no intent to actually debate or discuss. Hence, "Well, you make a good point, but we're going to ignore that and discuss how you're needing to be nerfed ANYWAY" is the debate tack of someone I have no interest in engaging.
It's not a sign of an informed opinion. It's a sign of someone sticking their fingers in their ears and going LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!"
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
12
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Posted - 2015.08.04 17:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
You seem to have completely missed my point, Breakin. Whether or not you approve of my delivery, the point remains:
There's no harm in hammering out far fetched ideals. Sounds like fun. But let's also put into play a practical, interim response to the very real problem at hand. We can do both, and what good reason is there not to?
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3
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Posted - 2015.08.04 17:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Chosokabe Ite wrote:Those blaster tanks aren't so scary when you got a swarm launcher or a plasma cannon. Hell, I'm thinking about a commando fit with both. Yeah, I'll be useless against everything else, but hey, could be fun. 10000+ ehp, ~500 reps/second with the current meta fit They're plenty scary unless you've got FAR too many people shooting at them.
All it takes is 2 people working together. You're just bad.
PS3 is back in its box.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.04 17:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:You seem to have completely missed my point, Breakin. Whether or not you approve of my delivery, the point remains:
There's no harm in hammering out far fetched ideals. Sounds like fun. But let's also put into play a practical, interim response to the very real problem at hand. We can do both, and what good reason is there not to?
I don't get the impression that's your intent when you skip over rather critical points people make in refutation or support of an argument. It is very much like you're bypassing arguments you don't want to address or deal with as you go and picking the outliers that are weaker.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Tebu Gan
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.08.04 18:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I see you didn't read my posts about blasters requiring a dispersion mod. Good show.
And bluntly, low to mid HP suits die fast. It's what they do. It's not unfair. It's the price you pay for your fitting choices.
Every suit has strength and weakness. Low base HP suits have higher mobility but pay for that with fragility.
And bluntly I think your penchant gor demanding nerfs for every damn thing under the sun is annoying as sh*t. Never once in the last three months can I recall you suggesting that something be brought up to match the competition. Just incessant demands that this be nerfed, that be nerfed, and your argument is always "low HP suits."
Low HP suits are fragile. Working as intended, move the f*ck along.
Given I haven't read the posts to which you refer, blasters DON'T require a dispersion mod to be effective against infantry. I opt for double damage mods when going for infantry and a heatsink/damage mod combo when I want to be versatile between infantry and tanks.
I've tried using the dispersion mods a few times but never really found them as useful as the damage mods are. A majority of the time you aren't going to catch people in the open with no cover (and if you do, you don't really need a dispersion mod to drop them with ease). Usually, they are ducking behind cover, or moving between cover, so the few shots that you do land need to do some serious damage.
Not saying dispersion mods aren't useful, though they certainly are not "required" to easily kill infantry. And in my opinion, are not relevant to the other options. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.04 19:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
Hehehehe.
Not often I see a tank driver declare checkmate on themselves.
Very well, Given Tebu's generous contribution, I concede, Heavy Blaster Turrets are too effective against Infantry.
You win this round Nothi, I will no longer defend tank firepower vs. Light suits.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
12
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Posted - 2015.08.04 19:16:00 -
[44] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I see you didn't read my posts about blasters requiring a dispersion mod. Good show.
And bluntly, low to mid HP suits die fast. It's what they do. It's not unfair. It's the price you pay for your fitting choices.
Every suit has strength and weakness. Low base HP suits have higher mobility but pay for that with fragility.
And bluntly I think your penchant gor demanding nerfs for every damn thing under the sun is annoying as sh*t. Never once in the last three months can I recall you suggesting that something be brought up to match the competition. Just incessant demands that this be nerfed, that be nerfed, and your argument is always "low HP suits."
Low HP suits are fragile. Working as intended, move the f*ck along.
And you find my delivery and tone off putting? Lol. Go brow beat some newbros, mr CPM; your chest pounding won't get you anything from me but giggles.
As for improvements I've suggested that you apparently missed over the past few months:
* Logi speed
* commando speed
* commando slot count
* active scanner WP
* Amarr scout
* shields relative to armor
* other lows relative to armor
* sniper rifle handling
* ion pistol
* Magsec
* cloak
* range extenders
* missile HAVs
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.04 20:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Always happy to show you the same respect and consideration you show to those who disagree with you Adipem.
None.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
3
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 22:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Mina Longstrike wrote:Chosokabe Ite wrote:Those blaster tanks aren't so scary when you got a swarm launcher or a plasma cannon. Hell, I'm thinking about a commando fit with both. Yeah, I'll be useless against everything else, but hey, could be fun. 10000+ ehp, ~500 reps/second with the current meta fit They're plenty scary unless you've got FAR too many people shooting at them. All it takes is 2 people working together. You're just bad.
Ignoring the ad hominem: Prove that it only takes two people.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
805
|
Posted - 2015.08.04 22:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:As an infantry player, large blasters are destroying my suit in 1 second no matter how much HP it has. This seriously has to stop.
One Madrugar Gv.0 is enough to screw up the whole game on certain maps just because it's almost invincible AND whenever you try to take it down with AV, it kills you in a blink of an eye.
I'm sick of this BS.
Now I understand that they may not be OP against other vehicle so reducing their damage according to infantry would make them useless against anything else. So just do one simple thing : if the blaster hits vehicle/installations it'll do 100% damage on it. If it hits infantry, it'll 33% (1/3) of its damage.
There are no way of escaping a large blaster once it has barely touched you. You just get obliterated even by the militia version... Sounds like someone doesn't know what AV is supposed to do. It's not a vehicle problem, it's a "I won't take care of the problem" problem, and a "someone else needs to do it or I'll go on the forums and cry about it."
I killed you in and outside your tank so many times and you dare bringing your fa ggot face in my thread to say that. GTFO.
If no one else do it, I use my commando fit and do it. But 1 guy is completely useless vs 1 guy in a tank with them blasters.
Breaking Stuff said something really true: tankers pay so much for their tank that they have to be OP or it's unfair for them. But that's not a good solution for balance! Tanks should be hardly nerfed, and cost the same price than any other suit. So if one guy goes AV he could kill him just as an AI player kills infantry.
Now please Breaking stuff and Adipem, stop fighting :)
Ps: D1ck.. te sbundo.
WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME !
-Sequal Rise
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
20
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Posted - 2015.08.04 23:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Mina Longstrike wrote:Chosokabe Ite wrote:Those blaster tanks aren't so scary when you got a swarm launcher or a plasma cannon. Hell, I'm thinking about a commando fit with both. Yeah, I'll be useless against everything else, but hey, could be fun. 10000+ ehp, ~500 reps/second with the current meta fit They're plenty scary unless you've got FAR too many people shooting at them. All it takes is 2 people working together. You're just bad. Ignoring the ad hominem: Prove that it only takes two people.
Well really all it takes in one person at the right time with the right weapon but I think the model is flawed if AV isn't a threat to tanks while they are on field. Sure I want HAV to be able to take a beating.....but not beyond reason and current double stacking hardeners for essential invulnerability is not really entertaining for either more or those I fight.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Mejt0
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.08.06 02:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
Whenever I take blaster tank into action, I will get hunted by rail maddy in less than few minutes. Literally 3 shoted.
And fun is over, sad face.
Loyal to The State
Official Caldari Commando User
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Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
953
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 04:04:00 -
[50] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Mina Longstrike wrote:Chosokabe Ite wrote:Those blaster tanks aren't so scary when you got a swarm launcher or a plasma cannon. Hell, I'm thinking about a commando fit with both. Yeah, I'll be useless against everything else, but hey, could be fun. 10000+ ehp, ~500 reps/second with the current meta fit They're plenty scary unless you've got FAR too many people shooting at them. All it takes is 2 people working together. You're just bad. Ignoring the ad hominem: Prove that it only takes two people.
I hate to agree with SPKR, but two people can kill a double rep/hardener madruger. However it becomes a rediculously herculean task if the tanker has any brains at all (competent positioning and maneuver pretty much makes well fit tanks of any kind, not even just the 2rep/2hard madruger, invincible), even with 3, 4, etc people, meanwhile your team is getting eaten alive by the enemy infantry.
If there were an infantry equivalent you'd be fighting a sentinel that reps its full health in ~5-10 seconds, does accurate scrambler rifle or better style damage up to 200 meters, and moves faster than a scout. On top of that the only weapon you can use against them are either braindead stupid and easy to exploit due to their AI/travel characteristics, or they are cumbersome and require you to use a slow vulnerable suit, with no ammo capacity or nanohives to restock with, to use.
Dont worry though tanks are totally balanced, just ask Spkr. |
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
20
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Posted - 2015.08.06 04:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:
I hate to agree with SPKR, but two people can kill a double rep/hardener madruger. However it becomes a rediculously herculean task if the tanker has any brains at all (competent positioning and maneuver pretty much makes well fit tanks of any kind, not even just the 2rep/2hard madruger, invincible), even with 3, 4, etc people, meanwhile your team is getting eaten alive by the enemy infantry.
If there were an infantry equivalent you'd be fighting a sentinel that reps its full health in ~5-10 seconds, does accurate scrambler rifle or better style damage up to 200 meters, and moves faster than a scout. On top of that the only weapon you can use against them are either braindead stupid and easy to exploit due to their AI/travel characteristics, or they are cumbersome and require you to use a slow vulnerable suit, with no ammo capacity or nanohives to restock with, to use.
Dont worry though tanks are totally balanced, just ask Spkr.
That is a factor of tanking that I quite like the idea of. Not the impossible to kill bit but the idea that with skill, a knowledge of your modules, and terrain a player can make their tank worth the enemy committing more and more AV units to destroying reducing the number of rifles they are fielding.
Sure the whole 1 player = 1 player thing can be spouted by I should be able to make myself worth those 2-3 players if I am good at what I am doing.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
955
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 06:42:00 -
[52] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
I hate to agree with SPKR, but two people can kill a double rep/hardener madruger. However it becomes a rediculously herculean task if the tanker has any brains at all (competent positioning and maneuver pretty much makes well fit tanks of any kind, not even just the 2rep/2hard madruger, invincible), even with 3, 4, etc people, meanwhile your team is getting eaten alive by the enemy infantry.
If there were an infantry equivalent you'd be fighting a sentinel that reps its full health in ~5-10 seconds, does accurate scrambler rifle or better style damage up to 200 meters, and moves faster than a scout. On top of that the only weapon you can use against them are either braindead stupid and easy to exploit due to their AI/travel characteristics, or they are cumbersome and require you to use a slow vulnerable suit, with no ammo capacity or nanohives to restock with, to use.
Dont worry though tanks are totally balanced, just ask Spkr.
That is a factor of tanking that I quite like the idea of. Not the impossible to kill bit but the idea that with skill, a knowledge of your modules, and terrain a player can make their tank worth the enemy committing more and more AV units to destroying reducing the number of rifles they are fielding. Sure the whole 1 player = 1 player thing can be spouted by I should be able to make myself worth those 2-3 players if I am good at what I am doing.
If the players are of equal skill: No, you absolutely should not be able to pay your way into making yourself worth more than one player. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 10:10:00 -
[53] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
Sure the whole 1 player = 1 player thing can be spouted by I should be able to make myself worth those 2-3 players if I am good at what I am doing.
by the same token, a skilled AV gunner should be able to negate that need for 2-3 players. Therein lies the problem. You can't.
And bluntly the ISK cost of vehicles justifies it.
ISK may not be a balance metric. But it affects the choices and tactics players use. If tanks were solidly able to be countered by a dedicated AVer who actually doesn't suck, they would be considered UP by the playera because of the 10x ISK multiplier.
If a Gv.0 cost 350,000-400,000 fully fit and the cost of lesser HAVs proportionally less? Less room to argue the ISK cost complaint. More room for dedicated AV gunners and less reason for literally everyone to max out (insert AV of choice here).
But we have had 2 years of tanks being alternately utter ass or being nigh unto unstoppable.
And those nigh unto unstoppable combined with LAVs require weapons you fight tanks with to stop (dropships could literally go either way, I think needing AV guns is the better choice) creates a meta where one of the first things taught to every newbie under the sun is that they have to have proto AV and AV nades yesterday.
Honestly the length of time we have had this jacked up meta we would need an SP reset or get 10x the current number of players to get out from under the "Everyone needs AV" meta.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
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Posted - 2015.08.06 10:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
remove fuel injectors from the game entirely. (the afterburners can stay)
and then adjust large blaster min dispersion to be equal to the size of heavy infantry at a range of 10-20m. then let it increase as normal from there.
the problem is more with damage application than damage itself |
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