DUST Search - Large Blasters are insane

True Adamance wrote:

Vesta Opalus wrote:

I hate to agree with SPKR, but two people can kill a double rep/hardener madruger. However it becomes a rediculously herculean task if the tanker has any brains at all (competent positioning and maneuver pretty much makes well fit tanks of any kind, not even just the 2rep/2hard madruger, invincible), even with 3, 4, etc people, meanwhile your team is getting eaten alive by the enemy infantry.

If there were an infantry equivalent you'd be fighting a sentinel that reps its full health in ~5-10 seconds, does accurate scrambler rifle or better style damage up to 200 meters, and moves faster than a scout. On top of that the only weapon you can use against them are either braindead stupid and easy to exploit due to their AI/travel characteristics, or they are cumbersome and require you to use a slow vulnerable suit, with no ammo capacity or nanohives to restock with, to use.

Dont worry though tanks are totally balanced, just ask Spkr.

That is a factor of tanking that I quite like the idea of. Not the impossible to kill bit but the idea that with skill, a knowledge of your modules, and terrain a player can make their tank worth the enemy committing more and more AV units to destroying reducing the number of rifles they are fielding.

Sure the whole 1 player = 1 player thing can be spouted by I should be able to make myself worth those 2-3 players if I am good at what I am doing.

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Vesta Opalus Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 952	Posted - 2015.08.04 07:46:00 - [31] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: Well if you can survive a tank shell to the face then nerfing the blasters would make sense. I mean come on its a tank, you're not supposed to be able to survive an encounter with it unless you're prepared Meanwhile antitank weapons cant kill tanks, despite the fact that real life tanks get their **** pushed in the second an anti tank weapon looks their way. Your logic is great until you apply it both ways, then it breaks down completely given the realities of dust and the real world.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.04 07:56:00 - [32] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Sounds great! Let's work on that. Meanwhile, Large Blasters are ridiculously effective at killing infantry. And everything else, for that matter. How 'bout we make them less so, as an interim fix, while we contemplate and debate what "intended role" would be good and balanced. Adipem this post comes off like: "You make good counterpoints! But we're going to ignore them in favor of discussing how we're going to nerf your sht." This is the source of 99% of hostile reactions to your posts. Might want to check how you phrase things. Large turret machinegun is IMHO a sht design. I'm with adamance on this. The HAV cannons don't feel like cannons. The heavy blaster feels like a scaled up .50 cal. The railgun is functionally identical to the bolt pistol for tankhunting. It's not "too effective at killing infantry." It's utterly sh*t for killing infantry. Tank drivers are fitting the active mod that makes them shoot straight, and the ones who do it sacrifice their ability to use the nigh unto biblically difficult to kill madrugars. So no, the premise of this post is pretty bad. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 12	Posted - 2015.08.04 14:37:00 - [33] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: It's not "too effective at killing infantry." It's utterly sht for killing infantry. Tank drivers are fitting the active mod that makes them shoot straight, and the ones who do it sacrifice their ability to use the nigh unto biblically difficult to kill madrugars. So no, the premise of this post is pretty bad. Fact: Large Blasters might be "utter sht" against high HP units (I don't know), but they're obscenely effective at dispatching low-to-medium HP units, even at long range. Opinion: If these are in fact an AV Weapon, Large Blaster turrets are absolutely too effective at killing infantry. If they're instead an AI Weapon, then Blaster Tanks should be less resistant to infantry AV and nigh helpless when up against Missile / Rail HAVs. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 12	Posted - 2015.08.04 14:54:00 - [34] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem this post comes off like: "You make good counterpoints! But we're going to ignore them in favor of discussing how we're going to nerf your sh*t." This is the source of 99% of hostile reactions to your posts. Might want to check how you phrase things. You read that right. When we have a problem, we should address that problem. Yes, let's flesh out together a lore-friendly, mechanically complex utopian solution that everyone can get on board with. But while we wax and wane utopian, why not do something specific and practical to address and lessen the problem? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:30:00 - [35] - Quote I see you didn't read my posts about blasters requiring a dispersion mod. Good show. And bluntly, low to mid HP suits die fast. It's what they do. It's not unfair. It's the price you pay for your fitting choices. Every suit has strength and weakness. Low base HP suits have higher mobility but pay for that with fragility. And bluntly I think your penchant gor demanding nerfs for every damn thing under the sun is annoying as sht. Never once in the last three months can I recall you suggesting that something be brought up to match the competition. Just incessant demands that this be nerfed, that be nerfed, and your argument is always "low HP suits." Low HP suits are fragile. Working as intended, move the fck along. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:37:00 - [36] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: You read that right. Then I have absolutely no respect for this line of argument and will not bother trying to be civil, because that tack of debate is ass. I consider the people who use it to be self-entitled little pricks barely worthy of notice much less respect. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 12	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:58:00 - [37] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: You read that right. Then I have absolutely no respect for this line of argument and will not bother trying to be civil, because that tack of debate is ass. I consider the people who consider it acceptable it to be self-entitled little pricks barely worthy of notice much less respect. If your horse is too high or brow too furrowed to hear an informed opinion, then so be it. Though this begs the question. If you can't be bothered to hear informed opinions, what opinions will you hear if elected CPM? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:40:00 - [38] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: You read that right. Then I have absolutely no respect for this line of argument and will not bother trying to be civil, because that tack of debate is ass. I consider the people who consider it acceptable it to be self-entitled little pricks barely worthy of notice much less respect. If your horse is too high or brow too furrowed to hear an informed opinion, then so be it. Though this begs the question. If you can't be bothered to hear informed opinions, what opinions will you hear if elected CPM? Because dismissing other peoples' points as though they were irrelevant isn't exactly what most consider worthwhile debate. It's an indication that you have no intent to actually debate or discuss. Hence, "Well, you make a good point, but we're going to ignore that and discuss how you're needing to be nerfed ANYWAY" is the debate tack of someone I have no interest in engaging. It's not a sign of an informed opinion. It's a sign of someone sticking their fingers in their ears and going LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!" WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 12	Posted - 2015.08.04 17:23:00 - [39] - Quote You seem to have completely missed my point, Breakin. Whether or not you approve of my delivery, the point remains: There's no harm in hammering out far fetched ideals. Sounds like fun. But let's also put into play a practical, interim response to the very real problem at hand. We can do both, and what good reason is there not to? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3	Posted - 2015.08.04 17:30:00 - [40] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: Chosokabe Ite wrote: Those blaster tanks aren't so scary when you got a swarm launcher or a plasma cannon. Hell, I'm thinking about a commando fit with both. Yeah, I'll be useless against everything else, but hey, could be fun. 10000+ ehp, ~500 reps/second with the current meta fit They're plenty scary unless you've got FAR too many people shooting at them. All it takes is 2 people working together. You're just bad. PS3 is back in its box.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.04 17:33:00 - [41] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: You seem to have completely missed my point, Breakin. Whether or not you approve of my delivery, the point remains: There's no harm in hammering out far fetched ideals. Sounds like fun. But let's also put into play a practical, interim response to the very real problem at hand. We can do both, and what good reason is there not to? I don't get the impression that's your intent when you skip over rather critical points people make in refutation or support of an argument. It is very much like you're bypassing arguments you don't want to address or deal with as you go and picking the outliers that are weaker. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:14:00 - [42] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I see you didn't read my posts about blasters requiring a dispersion mod. Good show. And bluntly, low to mid HP suits die fast. It's what they do. It's not unfair. It's the price you pay for your fitting choices. Every suit has strength and weakness. Low base HP suits have higher mobility but pay for that with fragility. And bluntly I think your penchant gor demanding nerfs for every damn thing under the sun is annoying as sht. Never once in the last three months can I recall you suggesting that something be brought up to match the competition. Just incessant demands that this be nerfed, that be nerfed, and your argument is always "low HP suits." Low HP suits are fragile. Working as intended, move the fck along. Given I haven't read the posts to which you refer, blasters DON'T require a dispersion mod to be effective against infantry. I opt for double damage mods when going for infantry and a heatsink/damage mod combo when I want to be versatile between infantry and tanks. I've tried using the dispersion mods a few times but never really found them as useful as the damage mods are. A majority of the time you aren't going to catch people in the open with no cover (and if you do, you don't really need a dispersion mod to drop them with ease). Usually, they are ducking behind cover, or moving between cover, so the few shots that you do land need to do some serious damage. Not saying dispersion mods aren't useful, though they certainly are not "required" to easily kill infantry. And in my opinion, are not relevant to the other options.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.04 19:15:00 - [43] - Quote Hehehehe. Not often I see a tank driver declare checkmate on themselves. Very well, Given Tebu's generous contribution, I concede, Heavy Blaster Turrets are too effective against Infantry. You win this round Nothi, I will no longer defend tank firepower vs. Light suits. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 12	Posted - 2015.08.04 19:16:00 - [44] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I see you didn't read my posts about blasters requiring a dispersion mod. Good show. And bluntly, low to mid HP suits die fast. It's what they do. It's not unfair. It's the price you pay for your fitting choices. Every suit has strength and weakness. Low base HP suits have higher mobility but pay for that with fragility. And bluntly I think your penchant gor demanding nerfs for every damn thing under the sun is annoying as sht. Never once in the last three months can I recall you suggesting that something be brought up to match the competition. Just incessant demands that this be nerfed, that be nerfed, and your argument is always "low HP suits." Low HP suits are fragile. Working as intended, move the fck along. And you find my delivery and tone off putting? Lol. Go brow beat some newbros, mr CPM; your chest pounding won't get you anything from me but giggles. As for improvements I've suggested that you apparently missed over the past few months: * Logi speed * commando speed * commando slot count * active scanner WP * Amarr scout * shields relative to armor * other lows relative to armor * sniper rifle handling * ion pistol * Magsec * cloak * range extenders * missile HAVs Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.04 20:03:00 - [45] - Quote Always happy to show you the same respect and consideration you show to those who disagree with you Adipem. None. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.04 22:16:00 - [46] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Chosokabe Ite wrote: Those blaster tanks aren't so scary when you got a swarm launcher or a plasma cannon. Hell, I'm thinking about a commando fit with both. Yeah, I'll be useless against everything else, but hey, could be fun. 10000+ ehp, ~500 reps/second with the current meta fit They're plenty scary unless you've got FAR too many people shooting at them. All it takes is 2 people working together. You're just bad. Ignoring the ad hominem: Prove that it only takes two people. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 805	Posted - 2015.08.04 22:44:00 - [47] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: As an infantry player, large blasters are destroying my suit in 1 second no matter how much HP it has. This seriously has to stop. One Madrugar Gv.0 is enough to screw up the whole game on certain maps just because it's almost invincible AND whenever you try to take it down with AV, it kills you in a blink of an eye. I'm sick of this BS. Now I understand that they may not be OP against other vehicle so reducing their damage according to infantry would make them useless against anything else. So just do one simple thing : if the blaster hits vehicle/installations it'll do 100% damage on it. If it hits infantry, it'll 33% (1/3) of its damage. There are no way of escaping a large blaster once it has barely touched you. You just get obliterated even by the militia version... Sounds like someone doesn't know what AV is supposed to do. It's not a vehicle problem, it's a "I won't take care of the problem" problem, and a "someone else needs to do it or I'll go on the forums and cry about it." I killed you in and outside your tank so many times and you dare bringing your fa ggot face in my thread to say that. GTFO. If no one else do it, I use my commando fit and do it. But 1 guy is completely useless vs 1 guy in a tank with them blasters. Breaking Stuff said something really true: tankers pay so much for their tank that they have to be OP or it's unfair for them. But that's not a good solution for balance! Tanks should be hardly nerfed, and cost the same price than any other suit. So if one guy goes AV he could kill him just as an AI player kills infantry. Now please Breaking stuff and Adipem, stop fighting :) Ps: D1ck.. te sbundo. WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME ! -Sequal Rise
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:12:00 - [48] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Chosokabe Ite wrote: Those blaster tanks aren't so scary when you got a swarm launcher or a plasma cannon. Hell, I'm thinking about a commando fit with both. Yeah, I'll be useless against everything else, but hey, could be fun. 10000+ ehp, ~500 reps/second with the current meta fit They're plenty scary unless you've got FAR too many people shooting at them. All it takes is 2 people working together. You're just bad. Ignoring the ad hominem: Prove that it only takes two people. Well really all it takes in one person at the right time with the right weapon but I think the model is flawed if AV isn't a threat to tanks while they are on field. Sure I want HAV to be able to take a beating.....but not beyond reason and current double stacking hardeners for essential invulnerability is not really entertaining for either more or those I fight. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.08.06 02:17:00 - [49] - Quote Whenever I take blaster tank into action, I will get hunted by rail maddy in less than few minutes. Literally 3 shoted. And fun is over, sad face. Loyal to The State Official Caldari Commando User
Vesta Opalus Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 953	Posted - 2015.08.06 04:04:00 - [50] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Chosokabe Ite wrote: Those blaster tanks aren't so scary when you got a swarm launcher or a plasma cannon. Hell, I'm thinking about a commando fit with both. Yeah, I'll be useless against everything else, but hey, could be fun. 10000+ ehp, ~500 reps/second with the current meta fit They're plenty scary unless you've got FAR too many people shooting at them. All it takes is 2 people working together. You're just bad. Ignoring the ad hominem: Prove that it only takes two people. I hate to agree with SPKR, but two people can kill a double rep/hardener madruger. However it becomes a rediculously herculean task if the tanker has any brains at all (competent positioning and maneuver pretty much makes well fit tanks of any kind, not even just the 2rep/2hard madruger, invincible), even with 3, 4, etc people, meanwhile your team is getting eaten alive by the enemy infantry. If there were an infantry equivalent you'd be fighting a sentinel that reps its full health in ~5-10 seconds, does accurate scrambler rifle or better style damage up to 200 meters, and moves faster than a scout. On top of that the only weapon you can use against them are either braindead stupid and easy to exploit due to their AI/travel characteristics, or they are cumbersome and require you to use a slow vulnerable suit, with no ammo capacity or nanohives to restock with, to use. Dont worry though tanks are totally balanced, just ask Spkr.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.08.06 04:59:00 - [51] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: I hate to agree with SPKR, but two people can kill a double rep/hardener madruger. However it becomes a rediculously herculean task if the tanker has any brains at all (competent positioning and maneuver pretty much makes well fit tanks of any kind, not even just the 2rep/2hard madruger, invincible), even with 3, 4, etc people, meanwhile your team is getting eaten alive by the enemy infantry. If there were an infantry equivalent you'd be fighting a sentinel that reps its full health in ~5-10 seconds, does accurate scrambler rifle or better style damage up to 200 meters, and moves faster than a scout. On top of that the only weapon you can use against them are either braindead stupid and easy to exploit due to their AI/travel characteristics, or they are cumbersome and require you to use a slow vulnerable suit, with no ammo capacity or nanohives to restock with, to use. Dont worry though tanks are totally balanced, just ask Spkr. That is a factor of tanking that I quite like the idea of. Not the impossible to kill bit but the idea that with skill, a knowledge of your modules, and terrain a player can make their tank worth the enemy committing more and more AV units to destroying reducing the number of rifles they are fielding. Sure the whole 1 player = 1 player thing can be spouted by I should be able to make myself worth those 2-3 players if I am good at what I am doing. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Vesta Opalus Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 955	Posted - 2015.08.06 06:42:00 - [52] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: I hate to agree with SPKR, but two people can kill a double rep/hardener madruger. However it becomes a rediculously herculean task if the tanker has any brains at all (competent positioning and maneuver pretty much makes well fit tanks of any kind, not even just the 2rep/2hard madruger, invincible), even with 3, 4, etc people, meanwhile your team is getting eaten alive by the enemy infantry. If there were an infantry equivalent you'd be fighting a sentinel that reps its full health in ~5-10 seconds, does accurate scrambler rifle or better style damage up to 200 meters, and moves faster than a scout. On top of that the only weapon you can use against them are either braindead stupid and easy to exploit due to their AI/travel characteristics, or they are cumbersome and require you to use a slow vulnerable suit, with no ammo capacity or nanohives to restock with, to use. Dont worry though tanks are totally balanced, just ask Spkr. That is a factor of tanking that I quite like the idea of. Not the impossible to kill bit but the idea that with skill, a knowledge of your modules, and terrain a player can make their tank worth the enemy committing more and more AV units to destroying reducing the number of rifles they are fielding. Sure the whole 1 player = 1 player thing can be spouted by I should be able to make myself worth those 2-3 players if I am good at what I am doing. If the players are of equal skill: No, you absolutely should not be able to pay your way into making yourself worth more than one player.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.06 10:10:00 - [53] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Sure the whole 1 player = 1 player thing can be spouted by I should be able to make myself worth those 2-3 players if I am good at what I am doing. by the same token, a skilled AV gunner should be able to negate that need for 2-3 players. Therein lies the problem. You can't. And bluntly the ISK cost of vehicles justifies it. ISK may not be a balance metric. But it affects the choices and tactics players use. If tanks were solidly able to be countered by a dedicated AVer who actually doesn't suck, they would be considered UP by the playera because of the 10x ISK multiplier. If a Gv.0 cost 350,000-400,000 fully fit and the cost of lesser HAVs proportionally less? Less room to argue the ISK cost complaint. More room for dedicated AV gunners and less reason for literally everyone to max out (insert AV of choice here). But we have had 2 years of tanks being alternately utter ass or being nigh unto unstoppable. And those nigh unto unstoppable combined with LAVs require weapons you fight tanks with to stop (dropships could literally go either way, I think needing AV guns is the better choice) creates a meta where one of the first things taught to every newbie under the sun is that they have to have proto AV and AV nades yesterday. Honestly the length of time we have had this jacked up meta we would need an SP reset or get 10x the current number of players to get out from under the "Everyone needs AV" meta. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.08.06 10:34:00 - [54] - Quote remove fuel injectors from the game entirely. (the afterburners can stay) and then adjust large blaster min dispersion to be equal to the size of heavy infantry at a range of 10-20m. then let it increase as normal from there. the problem is more with damage application than damage itself


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