At the end of the day, EWAR is in an ok place at the moment. Scouts don't get scanned and aren't OP. It would be a shame to mess it up.

A couple quick points, as it seems your thinking might be based in outdated information.

The link above points to Hotfix Charlie which was released in August of 2014. Several months later in December of 2014, EWAR was overhauled with the introduction of Falloff. Some of the EWAR interplay values and scenarios observed in HF Charlie still apply, but in most cases they do not. Here is a breakdown of what EWAR looks like today.

As you can see, the claim "all passive scans can be beaten by all scouts" may have once been the case, but today is no longer. At a nominal investment of 1 precision enhancer, an Assault or Logi will scan any MinScout when he enters knifing range, even if that MinScout runs complex dampeners in every one of his three low slots. Assuming 1v1 interplay, it could perhaps be pitched that this is reasonable. But with shared squad sight -- especially shared up to 16x -- well, I (for one) don't think that we're within range of reasonable any more.

Now that you're looking at the current numbers instead of HF Charlie numbers, what do you think, Tesfa?

consider the min scouts moves at a base 7+ meters per second sprint speed, he's in and killed you or in and out of range before your squad even knows he's there.

Must disagree here. I run damps on my scout loadouts. I get scanned often by passives and occasionally by actives. It isn't common for a GalLogi to field a 15dB scanner, but I wouldn't call it rare. 20dB is the target profile to beat the much-more-common 21dB Active Scans. Precision Enhancers are pretty common, and in most cases it only takes one to get below 20dB.

9 times (or more) out of 10 my scout is defeated by vision rarther than scans. In my experience scouts (properly dampened) are rarely scanned.

Though perhaps you are right that scouts should have to fit one or two damps to hide. Do you mean excluding focused scans, like now? Or one to two damps to a avoid all scans? Personally I'm fine with focussed scanners having the precision to scan me, so long as they are unwieldy enough to operate around.

To Tesfa, it's zero precision mods on a medium to pick up a single dampened min scout, two precision if the scout fills all lows with dampeners.

If my understanding's correct, Profile & Precision values are rounded to the nearest whole decibel and ties go to the scanner. So the inner ring of a MedFrame w/1 precision mod (16dB) scans the triple damp'd MinScout (16dB).

Sounds good. But we must be missing something as MN Scout kill/spawn efficiency is among the lowest in the game.

Probably because of its encouraged play style. Hacking is risky, speed fits are risky, low health is risky, nova knives are risky.

Based strictly upon Tesfa's depiction, would you expect a highly experienced MN Scout slayer like Mr Musturd to have disproportionately high KDR or disproportionately low KDR?

I think theres a disconnect here between Tesfa's scenario and the reality of Min scoots ...

Sounds good. But we must be missing something as MN Scout kill/spawn efficiency is among the lowest in the game.

* Adding Reptool WP to the list; the WP gaps these things create are pretty extreme. "As good as" is one thing. Thousands more WP than the next guy plus paycuts for everyone else on the team is another. Especially now that Logis are better able to fight back.

This seems to be a "fix whats broken" thread. In all actuality its a scout QQ thread.

Yet i'm like "look at that K/D,he obviously lost a lot of ISK regardless of WP"

This seems to be a "fix whats broken" thread.


In all actuality its a scout QQ thread.

"Gal logis can scan me waaah, NERF THEM"

"Passives shouldn't be able to scan me waaah,NERF THEM"

"Assaults with their absurd base eHP/speed ratio shouldn't have to compromise to be invisible"

"Logis rep too much,nerf their WP"

I love this example:



He's like "look at that WP this obviously needs a nerf!!1"

Yet i'm like "look at that K/D,he obviously lost a lot of ISK regardless of WP"

And still i'm like "1/6 made alot of WP without many kills,just as CCP intended."

Until my full ADV logi can survive as well as a cheaper ADV assault,imma say "no".

Same for my PRO logi too.

Certainly possible. Is it not also possible that the feedback is fair and accurate? What specifically about the feedback do you find unfair or inaccurate?


He earned nearly 3x the WP of the next guy on the leaderboard; you argue that this is OK because he "lost a lot of Isk". How would your argument change if I were to tell you he didn't lose alot Isk? What if I told you his payout for that pub exceeded a million Isk, and that he was running a Brutor Logi?

I don't understand taking an extreme example and presenting it as the norm. Mr mustard isn't your average player, and 5k war points isn't the average logi score.

you know what gets a logi the most war points? being the only logi on your side . if nobody else brings uplinks, reps or needles then of course all the logi WP goes to the single guy doing it.

I don't understand taking an extreme example and presenting it as the norm.

Rep Tool WP isn't simply OP, as even logi focused on using rep tools in a squad can still readily go ISK negative. Rescaling both the mechanic and values for Rep Tool earnings would likely be a good move, as I've actually advocated since closed beta, but pulling them back while leaving the current burden of cost is improper.