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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.07.21 13:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Regarding armour modules, I think the issue is not that they are overpowered compared to shields, but that there is a wider variety of good high slot modules.
In high slots, Myobifs and damage mods are both good and common, (though I think heavy damage mods should mirror light in %).
In low slots I can see why armour is preferred.
Shield regulators are only good at proto, and shield energisers aren't good enough to compliment them for many people to focus on a shield regen build.
Cardiac regulators are good but of limited use.
Kinetic catalysers are only really good at complex, and have huge fitting costs, particularly at lower tiers.
Codebreakers have ridiculous fitting costs for the benefit, and are only good at complex.
Range amps have been nerfed to oblivion. This also affects the viability of precision mods.
Profile dampeners are rarely useful on suits other than scouts due to the ever present danger that the enemy will field a Gal logi. The precision bonus should be replaced to allow more suits to fit for stealth if they wish.
High slot mods that need a buff:
Shield energisers/rechargers. They don't give enough benefit for the module sacrifice. Also, lower tiers are worthless.
Heavy damage mods. The Amarr sentinel is the most common because nobody cares that it only has one high slot. With decent damage mods a Gallente heavy would be much more viable, with the extra damage it could output. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 21:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Squad shared passive scans are fine so long as they aren't too precise. Scouts with max skills and a complex dampener should not be scannable with passives, regardless of how many precision mods are used.
Assaults that want to get in close and flank should have a reason to dampen, without needing to sacrifice all their fitting to dampeners.
Sharing weak passives is fine. Sharing scout-hunter passives is not.
I wouldn't mind if squad share was removed, but I think passive scans are mostly ok where they are. My scout suits often use a precision mod to scan assaults at max range, and my logi uses two for the same purpose. I won't scan scouts outside the inner ring, and assaults could easily dampen below my scans.
An Amarr scout could scan most scouts, but not at a long enough range to benefit their squad. It is enough to use as a personal tool for fighting other scouts in cqc.
The only issues I see are range amps having been nerfed too much, making more dedicated scanning fits more difficult.
The inner scan ring. This was the reason range amps got nerfed. Best to remove it, but if not, range amps can only be buffed if they don't affect the inner ring.
The Gallente logi's precision bonus saturates the EWAR field. It sets the required profile too low, smothering what could be a more interesting interplay between dampening and precision. Without this bonus we may well see some assaults fitting dampeners. And precision mods may well become more useful.
Amarr scouts' bonuses are a bit lacking in comparison to the others. Range amp buffs and active scan precision nerfs would certainly help it. Though an alternative where the Am scout scan bonus is replaced would also work.
I think the discussion is kind of moot, as CCP have stated that removing squad share is not really possible. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 22:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:The problem with this is "scouts shouldn't be scanned ever" & the desire to remove shared passives is that it will likely just jump us back to 1.7 type gameplay, where scouts were king.
Now I agree that shared passives are quite powerful, and there should be some limits to them, but I dont want to go back to a scouts r king meta.
I disagree. Scouts currently are rarely scanned and certainly aren't king. The idea that scouts must be scanned to prevent them being OP is clearly incorrect.
I'm talking about buffing range amps and keeping shared scans. I see no reason to further buff scanning. The inner scan ring is currently only of marginal use, and mainly only affects nova knifers. It's removal is hardly likely to make anyone OP. Combining it with rebuffed range amps however would be disastrous.
It is currently unusual for scouts in competitive environments to be scanned by active scanners. Swapping the Gal logi precision bonus for something else scanning related will make little difference to scouts, it's about medium suit's access to stealth. Ok, maybe it will free up a module slot for some. Perhaps a Min scout could fit both a kincat and a Codebreaker at the same time like they used to! This isn't op. Perhaps focused scanners should be buffed to 15db to compensate.
My only concern with changing the Gal logi bonus, would be removing the need for scouts by giving assaults access to stealth.
At the end of the day, EWAR is in an ok place at the moment. Scouts don't get scanned and aren't OP. It would be a shame to mess it up. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 23:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:
At the end of the day, EWAR is in an ok place at the moment. Scouts don't get scanned and aren't OP. It would be a shame to mess it up.
Must disagree here. I run damps on my scout loadouts. I get scanned often by passives and occasionally by actives. It isn't common for a GalLogi to field a 15dB scanner, but I wouldn't call it rare. 20dB is the target profile to beat the much-more-common 21dB Active Scans. Precision Enhancers are pretty common, and in most cases it only takes one to get below 20dB.
9 times (or more) out of 10 my scout is defeated by vision rarther than scans. In my experience scouts (properly dampened) are rarely scanned.
Though perhaps you are right that scouts should have to fit one or two damps to hide. Do you mean excluding focused scans, like now? Or one to two damps to a avoid all scans? Personally I'm fine with focussed scanners having the precision to scan me, so long as they are unwieldy enough to operate around. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 23:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Perhaps I'm not realising when I'm being passively scanned. I like to think the inner rings are too small to have much effect, I may be wrong. At least the short range makes it difficult for squad mates to come to a victim's aid in time to save them, if they fail to defend themselves.
To Tesfa, it's zero precision mods on a medium to pick up a single dampened min scout, two precision if the scout fills all lows with dampeners. And if they are attacking with nova knives they won't be sprinting that close to the target. Knives don't charge/attack whilst sprinting, and overshooting your target is a big danger. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 23:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
In that case I will revise my original statement.
Scouts aren't OP and don't get scanned, other than by very short range inner rings the occasional long cooldown focused scanner. I still therefore claim that scouts are effectively combatted without the use of scans (shoot scout with yes). So scouts do not need to be easily scannable in order to prevent them from being OP.
The inner rings could be removed on the basis of poor min scout kills/spawn. However this would be a buff to scouts, which may not be needed. I still doubt that shared passives work against scouts much currently. However, scans certainly shouldn't be buffed. Buffing range amp would have to be done very carefully.
Replacing the Gal logi precision bonus is unlikely to have much effect on whether scouts are scanned or not. Though freeing up a scout module slot and giving assaults easy stealth access, may not be wise. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 00:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:
To Tesfa, it's zero precision mods on a medium to pick up a single dampened min scout, two precision if the scout fills all lows with dampeners.
If my understanding's correct, Profile & Precision values are rounded to the nearest whole decibel and ties go to the scanner. So the inner ring of a MedFrame w/1 precision mod (16dB) scans the triple damp'd MinScout (16dB).
Oops, was looking at Gal/Cal scouts by accident. |
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