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[Proposal] New Shield Modules

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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:38:00 - [1] - Quote Shield Module Expansion Pack DLC (999.99$) By Breakin Stuff, Cat Merc and Ripley Riley This is another short and sweet proposal addressing the lack of module variety offered by the shield tanking side of DUST 514. We believe the current imbalance stems partially from a direct weakness of shields, but also a lack of module variety, making shields a one trick pony. This proposal should mitigate this, in addition to the slight but welcome (we hope) reduction of shield fitting costs. After 5 hours of arguing, name calling, death threats, two pitched firefights, and several clones later with Ripley desperately trying to mediate using cheetos and catnip, we have hammered out what might be a viable pair of additions to the shield tanking module meta: Flux Shield Extender: Developed by Hyasyoda in response to the destructive capacity of the Gallente flux grenades and in competition with the Ishukone Reinforced Extenders, the Flux Hardener is a low-power deflection field which uses an unstable power supply to jump start regeneration of depleted shields as well as provide a direct, moderate boost to shield recharge. Reinforced Shield Extender: Being forced into close quarters with Gallente Black Eagles time and time again prompted Caldari mercenaries to jury-rig a heavy, hardened shield generator capable of outputting far more power than comparable devices by tearing apart and repurposing a shield emitter node taken from a wrecked Harpy assault frigate. Ishukone engineers patented the design then further refined it for use in combat areas where weaker shield extenders would be a liability. Unfortunately the sheer output of the devices destabilize shield regulation and native recharge, slowing both in exchange for superior damage mitigation. Spreadsheet or Rickroll may be found here Trello Card or NSFW Troll Link here WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:40:00 - [2] - Quote 5 hours of arguing over 2% changes. Kill me now. "To find out if they consent, poke the giant boobs. If they jiggle once, that means no. If twice, that means yes" - Anon
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:41:00 - [3] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: 5 hours of arguing over 2% changes. Kill me now. Gladly. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:43:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Cat Merc wrote: 5 hours of arguing over 2% changes. Kill me now. Gladly. RIPLEEEEEYYYY! BREAKIN IS PICKING ON ME AGAIN! MAKE HIM STOP! "To find out if they consent, poke the giant boobs. If they jiggle once, that means no. If twice, that means yes" - Anon
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:45:00 - [5] - Quote but how would they work? the flux one does what exactly compared to a shield regulator? the heavy extender is interesting.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:45:00 - [6] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: but how would they work? the flux one does what exactly compared to a shield regulator? the heavy extender is interesting. how much of a nerf to shield recharge and delays would it give? does it effect shield delay, or depleted shield delay? both? CLICK THE SPREADSHEET LINK!!! WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 11	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:47:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Cat Merc wrote: 5 hours of arguing over 2% changes.Kill me now. Gladly. RIPLEEEEEYYYY! BREAKIN IS PICKING ON ME AGAIN! MAKE HIM STOP! Goddamn it you pieces of genetic filth you will pipe down or so help me I will pull this thread over and break your bones in reverse alphabet order! @Ripley_Riley CPM2 candidate. Ripley.Riley on Skype!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:48:00 - [8] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Cat Merc wrote: 5 hours of arguing over 2% changes. Kill me now. Gladly. RIPLEEEEEYYYY! BREAKIN IS PICKING ON ME AGAIN! MAKE HIM STOP! Goddamn it you pieces of genetic filth you will pipe down or so help me I will pull this thread over and break your bones in reverse alphabet order! I will sit on both of you, one buttcheek apiece. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:50:00 - [9] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: but how would they work? the flux one does what exactly compared to a shield regulator? the heavy extender is interesting. how much of a nerf to shield recharge and delays would it give? does it effect shield delay, or depleted shield delay? both? CLICK THE SPREADSHEET LINK!!! im sorry! haha after looking at it.... you need to add how the shield regulators work with the flux extenders EDIT: what would your depleted delay look like while running 5 flux extenders and 3 shield regulators?
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:50:00 - [10] - Quote Pisses on both You're both my bitches now. I win. "To find out if they consent, poke the giant boobs. If they jiggle once, that means no. If twice, that means yes" - Anon

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:53:00 - [11] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: but how would they work? the flux one does what exactly compared to a shield regulator? the heavy extender is interesting. how much of a nerf to shield recharge and delays would it give? does it effect shield delay, or depleted shield delay? both? CLICK THE SPREADSHEET LINK!!! im sorry! haha after looking at it.... you need to add how the shield regulators work with the flux extenders any mods that affect the same attribute are affected by stacking penalties in descending order. So the first regulator (which has the higher bonus) operates at full value. a second regulator operates as two modules. the first Flux shield would be affected as though there were already two of them, as it is the third module to affect the depleted delay (but not the regular delay). the third Flux would be treated as the fifth module for stacking penalties. Make sense? This is just a standard-issue EVE/DUST stacking penalty issue. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 21:59:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: but how would they work? the flux one does what exactly compared to a shield regulator? the heavy extender is interesting. how much of a nerf to shield recharge and delays would it give? does it effect shield delay, or depleted shield delay? both? CLICK THE SPREADSHEET LINK!!! im sorry! haha after looking at it.... you need to add how the shield regulators work with the flux extenders any mods that affect the same attribute are affected by stacking penalties in descending order. So the first regulator (which has the higher bonus) operates at full value. a second regulator operates as two modules. the first Flux shield would be affected as though there were already two of them, as it is the third module to affect the depleted delay (but not the regular delay). the third Flux would be treated as the fifth module for stacking penalties. Make sense? This is just a standard-issue EVE/DUST stacking penalty issue. i cant find stacking penalties for 8 mods...
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:00:00 - [13] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: i cant find stacking penalties for 8 mods... past 5, you're damn near going negative if not going negative WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:00:00 - [14] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: but how would they work? the flux one does what exactly compared to a shield regulator? the heavy extender is interesting. how much of a nerf to shield recharge and delays would it give? does it effect shield delay, or depleted shield delay? both? CLICK THE SPREADSHEET LINK!!! im sorry! haha after looking at it.... you need to add how the shield regulators work with the flux extenders any mods that affect the same attribute are affected by stacking penalties in descending order. So the first regulator (which has the higher bonus) operates at full value. a second regulator operates as two modules. the first Flux shield would be affected as though there were already two of them, as it is the third module to affect the depleted delay (but not the regular delay). the third Flux would be treated as the fifth module for stacking penalties. Make sense? This is just a standard-issue EVE/DUST stacking penalty issue. i cant find stacking penalties for 8 mods... S(n) = 0.5^[((n-1) / 2.22292081) ^2] n = the nth module added S = stacking effect for this particular module addition "To find out if they consent, poke the giant boobs. If they jiggle once, that means no. If twice, that means yes" - Anon
benandjerrys Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 282	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:02:00 - [15] - Quote Solid. Flux is Almost like a ancillary booster in eve. Like the "lore" of the idea for the other... like ALOT. ONE UNIVERSE//ONE WAR Support Dust/EvE cross content We need live events discussion
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:02:00 - [16] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: i cant find stacking penalties for 8 mods... past 5, you're damn near going negative if not going negative can you even go negative? or does it cap at zero? im guessing... but i think you could get around a 2 second depleted delay
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:04:00 - [17] - Quote 3 regs, 2 flux is 48.68% 3 regs, 5 flux is 37.14% After 5 modules on the same attribute, you literally start accruing penalties for each additional mod. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 11	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:05:00 - [18] - Quote benandjerrys wrote: Solid. Flux is Almost like a ancillary booster in eve. Like the "lore" of the idea for the other... like ALOT. Flux was intended to be shield's answer to a reactive plate. @Ripley_Riley CPM2 candidate. Ripley.Riley on Skype!
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:10:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: 3 regs, 2 flux is 48.68% 3 regs, 5 flux is 37.14% After 5 modules on the same attribute, you literally start accruing penalties for each additional mod. are you sure? those mods have different bonus values. are those percentages, the stacking penalty? or something else? what would the actual depleted delay be? it has to be less the 2.51 seconds
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:13:00 - [20] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: 3 regs, 2 flux is 48.68% 3 regs, 5 flux is 37.14% After 5 modules on the same attribute, you literally start accruing penalties for each additional mod. are you sure? those mods have different bonus values. are those percentages, the stacking penalty? or something else? what would the actual depleted delay be? it has to be less the 2.51 seconds Not as much. You CAN go negative, CCP did this to keep things within a set threshold. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:27:00 - [21] - Quote This is how CCP set up stacking penalties. They are copied over to DUST. Module 6+ provide no benefit whatsoever. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:30:00 - [22] - Quote 3 energizers 2 flux extenders 3 shield regulators 381 shield HP 123.37 HP/s 1.6 delay depleted delay would be under 1.92 seconds squishy as hell, but that regen would be too funny
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:37:00 - [23] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: 3 energizers 2 flux extenders 3 shield regulators 381 shield HP 123.37 HP/s 1.6 delay depleted delay would be under 1.92 seconds squishy as hell, but that regen would be too funny that's not how it works your maximum bonus with three regs and two flux is 48.68% Depleted: 3.0792 Recharge Delay: 2.0528 that's what the maximum benefit you will get is, period. a third flux extender reduces the bonus to 41.98% a fourth to 38.47% the fifth drops your total bonus to 37.14% It is never beneficial to stack more than five bonuses to the same attribute. Ever. No Bueno. Stacking penalties do not work the way you want them to. CCP implemented this to prevent unkillable ships, where players were omni-stacking resists to 99% WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:51:00 - [24] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: 3 energizers 2 flux extenders 3 shield regulators 381 shield HP 123.37 HP/s 1.6 delay depleted delay would be under 1.92 seconds squishy as hell, but that regen would be too funny that's not how it works your maximum bonus with three regs and two flux is 48.68% Depleted: 3.0792 Recharge Delay: 2.0528 that's what the maximum benefit you will get is, period. a third flux extender reduces the bonus to 41.98% a fourth to 38.47% the fifth drops your total bonus to 37.14% It is never beneficial to stack more than five bonuses to the same attribute. Ever. No Bueno. Stacking penalties do not work the way you want them to. CCP implemented this to prevent unkillable ships, where players were omni-stacking resists to 99% stacking penalites go in descending order according to odule strength. 1st reg 35% 2nd reg 30.415% 3rd reg 19.985% 1st flux 4.245% 2nd flux 1.59% thats a 91.235% reduction to depleted shield delay. thats not even including the skills that increase shield reg effectiveness. depleted shield delay would be at .5259 seconds on a cal assault
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:54:00 - [25] - Quote that's not how it works. They are multiplicative, not additive. the equation is not 35% + 30.415% + 19.985% + 4.245% + 1.59% it is (4 or 6 depending which delay) 1.35 * 1.30415 * 1.19985 * 1.04245 * 1.0159 WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.10 23:08:00 - [26] - Quote In the stacking penalty calculator, since the bonus to regulation reduces the final number, you enter 8 modules in like so: -35, -35, -35, -15, -15, -15, -15, -15 don't add a comma to the end. Bonuses that ADD to a number do not use the - WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.11 07:49:00 - [27] - Quote Any further comments? If you like the idea, please go click the trello card link and vote. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.07.11 09:38:00 - [28] - Quote mew "To find out if they consent, poke the giant boobs. If they jiggle once, that means no. If twice, that means yes" - Anon
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 651	Posted - 2015.07.11 10:25:00 - [29] - Quote Looks great and balanced. Where's the blue tag ? WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME !
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.11 10:42:00 - [30] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Looks great and balanced. Where's the blue tag ? I never bank on blue tags WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

501st Headstrong 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.07.12 03:20:00 - [31] - Quote Just read, just liked. Voting for it now :) I would love to have these bad boys on my MinScout XD "There are no rights. The world owes no one a living."-Sumner *The Mascot of 0uter.Heaven * Internet down atm :(
Ydubbs81 RND Negative-Feedback 3	Posted - 2015.07.12 03:46:00 - [32] - Quote Give me ROF mods in the low slots for shield tankers, and we'll be fine. Shield tanking is hard mode /period. > Check RND out here
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.12 12:00:00 - [33] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Give me ROF mods in the low slots for shield tankers, and we'll be fine. What do RoF mods have to do with this? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 853	Posted - 2015.07.12 16:08:00 - [34] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Cat Merc wrote: 5 hours of arguing over 2% changes.Kill me now. Gladly. RIPLEEEEEYYYY! BREAKIN IS PICKING ON ME AGAIN! MAKE HIM STOP! Goddamn it you pieces of genetic filth you will pipe down or so help me I will pull this thread over and break your bones in reverse alphabet order! Ripley=best dad CLICK ME!!
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 11	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:07:00 - [35] - Quote Bump @Ripley_Riley CPM2 candidate. Ripley.Riley on Skype!
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:54:00 - [36] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Bump Owww! Be careful when you carry that deadly virus that turns humans into psychedelic retards! So, hippies. AND THEN STEVE BUSCEMI SHOWS UP ON A FLYING PIG FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5	Posted - 2015.07.13 14:15:00 - [37] - Quote I like the idea of new modules to play around with. I DON'T like the idea of modules that make it so that other modules are now obsolete. 5x flux extenders on a Cal Assault gives it a depleted delay of 3.8? Well then what's the point in running a regulator? Sure the standard delay is still going to be up there a bit, but you basically would free up a low slot and still have a huge pool of HP a 7HP difference from ADV extenders is just too small. ____________________________________________________________________ My proposal: make things simple please? I really don't like the fact that these modules affect 3 different values. It's not like reactive plates where the speed penalty doesn't actually affect the way armor regenerates. Standard armor plates also don't reduce your armor repair rate...so here's the idea: Flux Extenders -a mixture of HP and recharge with same fitting cost as normal extenders -similar to reactive plates Normal Extenders -Just adds HP -remove shield depleted delay penalty -similar to ferroscale plates Reinforced Extenders -Lots of HP -Extends shield delays by a lot -similar to normal plates All we have to do now is move kin cats to the high slots to counter speed penalties that armor plates give, just as regulators are in the lows to counter the shield delays that reinforced extenders give. ________________________________________________________________________ On second thought this is probably a terrible idea..but whatever I'll post it anyways. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 11	Posted - 2015.07.13 14:24:00 - [38] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: 5x flux extenders on a Cal Assault gives it a depleted delay of 3.8? Well then what's the point in running a regulator? Sure the standard delay is still going to be up there a bit, but you basically would free up a low slot and still have a huge pool of HP a 7HP difference from ADV extenders is just too small. Compare proto flux extenders to proto extender, please. A.) Cal Assault 4x Extender 1x Energizer: 613.5 HP B.) Cal Assault 5x Flux: 580.3 HP That is a difference of 33 HP with the A having a faster recharge rate (52.4) and B having a quicker depleted delay (3.8s). I would at all say the proposed modules make any other modules obsolete. Shield regulators can still be paired with Extenders or Reinforced Extenders to great effect. Fit them with Flux Extenders to drive the non-depleted delay down farther. I-Shayz-I wrote: I really don't like the fact that these modules affect 3 different values. It's not like reactive plates where the speed penalty doesn't actually affect the way armor regenerates. Imagine that armor repair rates have a recharge delay of 0.0s... that's how we approached balancing the shield modules. Armor doesn't have a third number to balance because that number is always 0.0s regardless of what armor repair modules you have fitted. @Ripley_Riley CPM2 candidate. Ripley.Riley on Skype!
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.13 15:32:00 - [39] - Quote im actually seeing less benefits the more i look at these modules. i would suggest changes. reinforced extenders: get rid of the shield recharge penalty, and increase the penalty to depleted shield delay. treat it like a heavy extender with a heavier penalty flux extenders: i believe that the bonus to depleted shield delays will cause confusion to players that dont understand how stacking penalties work (i sure didnt) also: min assault: 2 flux, 2 damage mods, 2 reactives, 2 kincats... interesting fit
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6	Posted - 2015.07.13 15:38:00 - [40] - Quote What about a Shield Stabilizer? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 11	Posted - 2015.07.13 15:47:00 - [41] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: reinforced extenders: get rid of the shield recharge penalty, and increase the penalty to depleted shield delay. treat it like a heavy extender with a heavier penalty The reinforced shield extender offers almost armor levels of HP for 0 speed penalty. The trade off is a slightly reduced shield recharge rate. There has to be some other negative beside depleted delay. DeathwindRising wrote: flux extenders: I believe that the bonus to depleted shield delays will cause confusion to players that don't understand how stacking penalties work (i sure didn't) Stacking penalties are everywhere in Dust 514. I hate to say it, but this might just be one of those things players have take a moment to learn. There are stacking penalty calculators out there (I believe Breakin linked one). DeathwindRising wrote: min assault: 2 flux, 2 damage mods, 2 reactives, 2 kincats... interesting fit This is the kind of fitting the flux extender was designed for. It would allow a dropsuit to move in and out of fire fights, recharging to full shields with just a few seconds pause. Scouts and light frames could create similar fits. Fox Gaden wrote: What about a Shield Stabilizer? Interesting concept! I'm not sure there are already attributes in place to do what you are describing though. @Ripley_Riley CPM2 candidate. Ripley.Riley on Skype!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.13 15:49:00 - [42] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: reinforced extenders: get rid of the shield recharge penalty, and increase the penalty to depleted shield delay. treat it like a heavy extender with a heavier penalty flux extenders: i believe that the bonus to depleted shield delays will cause confusion to players that dont understand how stacking penalties work (i sure didnt) First point: That would increase assaults using it shield delays upwards of 8-10 seconds. There's a reason for the setup we put in. Second point: Stacking penalties have been around forever. and if you pay attention to the fitting windows you'll see the values change. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6	Posted - 2015.07.13 15:55:00 - [43] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: Looks great and balanced. Where's the blue tag ? I never bank on blue tags Better to bank on your reputation. Breakin Stuff links enough spreadsheets that there is a high likelihood of Rattati reading a Breakin Stuff thread, even if he does not post to indicate he has been here. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6	Posted - 2015.07.13 16:00:00 - [44] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: What about a Shield Stabilizer? Interesting concept! I'm not sure there are already attributes in place to do what you are describing though. A small Damage Threshold is being introduced to prevent shields regen from being interrupted by rifles pinking away from outside of effective range. So then it will just be a matter of having a second Shield regen stat from the modules and a second Damage Threshold for that second regen stat. We will not really know if it is easy, hard, or impossible to implement it until Rattati looks into it. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 11	Posted - 2015.07.13 16:02:00 - [45] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: So then it will just be a matter of having a second Shield regen stat from the modules and a second Damage Threshold for that second regen stat. We will not really know if it is easy, hard, or impossible to implement it until Rattati looks into it. Not denying that. Maybe it won't involve a lot of labor to pull off. What slot did you have in mind for this module? CPU/PG numbers close to something we already have? @Ripley_Riley CPM2 candidate. Ripley.Riley on Skype!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6	Posted - 2015.07.13 16:05:00 - [46] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: So then it will just be a matter of having a second Shield regen stat from the modules and a second Damage Threshold for that second regen stat. We will not really know if it is easy, hard, or impossible to implement it until Rattati looks into it. Not denying that. Maybe it won't involve a lot of labor to pull off. What slot did you have in mind for this module? CPU/PG numbers close to something we already have? Should probably be a high slot, so you are giving up Extenders or Energizers to fit it. Maybe have the PG/CPU costs similar to an Energizer so it is hard to stack a lot of them. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Avallo Kantor 844	Posted - 2015.07.13 20:42:00 - [47] - Quote It would probably be better to introduce a module that increases shield damage threshold than introduce a constant shield repair that is different from regular repair. It may also be useful to implement it as a part of another module, perhaps recharger or regulator. The value though on such a thing should be relatively small as to prevent it from being always up. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.14 00:03:00 - [48] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: reinforced extenders: get rid of the shield recharge penalty, and increase the penalty to depleted shield delay. treat it like a heavy extender with a heavier penalty The reinforced shield extender offers almost armor levels of HP for 0 speed penalty. The trade off is a slightly reduced shield recharge rate. There has to be some other negative beside depleted delay. DeathwindRising wrote: flux extenders: I believe that the bonus to depleted shield delays will cause confusion to players that don't understand how stacking penalties work (i sure didn't) Stacking penalties are everywhere in Dust 514. I hate to say it, but this might just be one of those things players have take a moment to learn. There are stacking penalty calculators out there (I believe Breakin linked one). DeathwindRising wrote: min assault: 2 flux, 2 damage mods, 2 reactives, 2 kincats... interesting fit This is the kind of fitting the flux extender was designed for. It would allow a dropsuit to move in and out of fire fights, recharging to full shields with just a few seconds pause. Scouts and light frames could create similar fits. Fox Gaden wrote: What about a Shield Stabilizer? Interesting concept! I'm not sure there are already attributes in place to do what you are describing though. The trade off of complex armor plate is heavy movement penalty. Your reinforced extender is like armor plates giving an armor repair penalty in addition to a movement penalty. I can't think of any module in either eve or dust that penalizes two separate stats for equipping the module. On top of that, if you are unable to recover your hp without interruption, high amounts of hp are useless after the first encounter as you can't apply logi reps, or healing hives to assist in recovery. Overall, this module is a hindrance in the long term. Reactive plates reduce the movement penalty in exchange for a modest increase in both armor and repair rate. The issue with the flux extender is that it does something that isn't otherwise possible to achieve in either dust or eve. There no way I can think of where you can achieve a negative through stacking penalties. Which is why I question the bonus to depleted delays if they can used to achieve a negative bonus. Not only that but it leaves your normal delay untouched. Where's the extender that offers no penalties? Or the extender that offers an increase in both hp and overall shield regen? Shield tankers are looking for quality of life buffs. I don't see how these achieve that in comparison to reactive plates and ferroscale plates.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.14 14:40:00 - [49] - Quote Deathwind I'm not responding to you anymore. Either you're trolling or you don't understand what the hell we are doing. I will say it now. These extender variants are intended to be on par with reactives and Plates. The only change we have proposed is lowering the fitting cost of standard extenders. that penalty already exists on them. The Heavy extenders HAVE TO HAVE a tangible drawback so they will be on par with the heavy armor plates which INCREASE damage application to the person using them by lowering their mobility. The heavy extenders make it harder to regenerate rapidly in exchange for a heavier and more durable level of protection. And finally, five flux extenders with no stacking penalties would simply be superior in all ways to Reactive plates. In short: No. This proposal is not about fixing core issues with shields. It is about introducing options which allow shield user better choices and more variety in fitting. We are not looking to make shields clearly superior to armor, which your demands will lead to. So no, take your "This will only make shields worse" BS and shelf it with the people who claimed that ferroscale and reactive plates would only benefit shield users. No, Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Getma Gunn Hellstorm LLC 11	Posted - 2015.07.14 15:25:00 - [50] - Quote I don't think anyone will argue with me if I say armor is vastly superior to shields at the moment. I really like these ideas of yours and I agree shields need something better than what we currently have. My suggestion is just give the caldari base numbers a bump comparable with the balacs ck.0. It's the only cal suit I've used that actually feels like the shields are effective. That way the armor users don't whine about not getting a new module and I can actually use my assault as intended.

Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.07.14 15:59:00 - [51] - Quote Getma Gunn wrote: I don't think anyone will argue with me if I say armor is vastly superior to shields at the moment. I really like these ideas of yours and I agree shields need something better than what we currently have. My suggestion is just give the caldari base numbers a bump comparable with the balacs ck.0. It's the only cal suit I've used that actually feels like the shields are effective. That way the armor users don't whine about not getting a new module and I can actually use my assault as intended. ... Balac's ck0 is a godlike suit. If you think it's balanced against armor, you have no ******* clue what balance is. AND THEN STEVE BUSCEMI SHOWS UP ON A FLYING PIG FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.14 21:14:00 - [52] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Deathwind I'm not responding to you anymore. Either you're trolling or you don't understand what the hell we are doing. I will say it now. These extender variants are intended to be on par with reactives and Plates. The only change we have proposed is lowering the fitting cost of standard extenders. that penalty already exists on them. The Heavy extenders HAVE TO HAVE a tangible drawback so they will be on par with the heavy armor plates which INCREASE damage application to the person using them by lowering their mobility. The heavy extenders make it harder to regenerate rapidly in exchange for a heavier and more durable level of protection. And finally, five flux extenders with no stacking penalties would simply be superior in all ways to Reactive plates. In short: No. This proposal is not about fixing core issues with shields. It is about introducing options which allow shield user better choices and more variety in fitting. We are not looking to make shields clearly superior to armor, which your demands will lead to. So no, take your "This will only make shields worse" BS and shelf it with the people who claimed that ferroscale and reactive plates would only benefit shield users. No, Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. I didnt say that this will make shields worse. I said it doesnt offer shield tankers anything, while it offers dual tankers and armor tankers more variety with their fits. the best choice for a cal assault is always going to be normal shield extenders, and with a energizers, plus some shield regulators. the flux and heavy extenders? they dont help shield tankers at all and encourage dual tanking and brick fits. whats the point of a flux extender if youre not dual tanking? youve designed drawbacks that in particular do not negatively affect armor tankers or dual tanking fits, while at the same time those same modules would in some shape or form negatively impact a caldari shield tank. the best part is when i checked the fitting costs of a complex damage mod... you made it easier to fit a heavy extender in terms of cpu and pg than itd be to fit a damage mod. last time i heard though, rattati was against dual tanking and against increasing shield HP. so following that, im actually more inclined to think that none of this will happen.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 240	Posted - 2015.07.14 22:31:00 - [53] - Quote Getma Gunn wrote: I don't think anyone will argue with me if I say armor is vastly superior to shields at the moment. I really like these ideas of yours and I agree shields need something better than what we currently have. My suggestion is just give the caldari base numbers a bump comparable with the balacs ck.0. It's the only cal suit I've used that actually feels like the shields are effective. That way the armor users don't whine about not getting a new module and I can actually use my assault as intended. Lol, a Rattati Aslt can get 33 HP per second (non stop) and 600+ armor with ferro's, and a Prototype can get close with 29 HP and 590+, where as my Frame's can get 600 Shield straight, with 101 HP (1 energizer and 1 recharge) and if I use 3 regulators, then i'd obtain every 1.60 seconds, problem is, it's always being stopped by any bullet (threshold was wasted). Armor is vastly superior to shield's since you can get 3 damage mod's, tank the suit even at basic level's, armor repair modules can give 10+ HP slap 2 on and your getting a constant equivalent of what shield's get, if not double, which technically raises the armor's strength against shield's. My shield suit, depending on what I choose for, 613 (shield) and 52 recharge (energizer), or 562 and 56 HP (2 enhanced rechargers), or 522 and 82 HP (2 energizers), it wouldn't matter my shield's aren't returning to me once every 1.60 second's, once it's hit once I'm as good as dead, where as armor players can constantly go lone wolf and kill 6 other player's before needing to hide around a corner to recoup. That in of itself place's armor's at a high advantage. (I did not count toward's armor rep tool's because that requires team work and is excusable, but it'd be nice if it were a bit more meticulous, if that's the right word, as it could give us our shield in return in accordance to our shield recharge level, wouldn't make sense, but would be better balance and a quick temporary fix) Aside from the previous, the ideal that shield suit's require to fight at long range is a load of bull in an FPS standpoint, given the fact that freedom of fitting's allow any armor player to fight at any range. Need to kill that guy at 70 meter's? Pull out a Rail Rifle, pesky sniper's putting your team down? Pull out a sniper rifle yourself, vehicle's giving you trouble? Pull out a Heavy with a FG. Freedom of fitting's is a positive but double edged sword, if one entire defense type get's blown out for it, yet the other remain's strong, it's a bad set up that only lead's to disaster. Shield's specifically for caldari, need to be reworked, and the constant armor repairing's need to be put to an end. (Before you say it, minmatar relies more on speed than anything, and are much more viable shield suit's than caldari would/could ever hope to be) When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.14 23:45:00 - [54] - Quote Zan Azikuchi wrote: Getma Gunn wrote: I don't think anyone will argue with me if I say armor is vastly superior to shields at the moment. I really like these ideas of yours and I agree shields need something better than what we currently have. My suggestion is just give the caldari base numbers a bump comparable with the balacs ck.0. It's the only cal suit I've used that actually feels like the shields are effective. That way the armor users don't whine about not getting a new module and I can actually use my assault as intended. Lol, a Rattati Aslt can get 33 HP per second (non stop) and 600+ armor with ferro's, and a Prototype can get close with 29 HP and 590+, where as my Frame's can get 600 Shield straight, with 101 HP (1 energizer and 1 recharge) and if I use 3 regulators, then i'd obtain every 1.60 seconds, problem is, it's always being stopped by any bullet (threshold was wasted). Armor is vastly superior to shield's since you can get 3 damage mod's, tank the suit even at basic level's, armor repair modules can give 10+ HP slap 2 on and your getting a constant equivalent of what shield's get, if not double, which technically raises the armor's strength against shield's. My shield suit, depending on what I choose for, 613 (shield) and 52 recharge (energizer), or 562 and 56 HP (2 enhanced rechargers), or 522 and 82 HP (2 energizers), it wouldn't matter my shield's aren't returning to me once every 1.60 second's, once it's hit once I'm as good as dead, where as armor players can constantly go lone wolf and kill 6 other player's before needing to hide around a corner to recoup. That in of itself place's armor's at a high advantage. (I did not count toward's armor rep tool's because that requires team work and is excusable, but it'd be nice if it were a bit more meticulous, if that's the right word, as it could give us our shield in return in accordance to our shield recharge level, wouldn't make sense, but would be better balance and a quick temporary fix) Aside from the previous, the ideal that shield suit's require to fight at long range is a load of bull in an FPS standpoint, given the fact that freedom of fitting's allow any armor player to fight at any range. Need to kill that guy at 70 meter's? Pull out a Rail Rifle, pesky sniper's putting your team down? Pull out a sniper rifle yourself, vehicle's giving you trouble? Pull out a Heavy with a FG. Freedom of fitting's is a positive but double edged sword, if one entire defense type get's blown out for it, yet the other remain's strong, it's a bad set up that only lead's to disaster. Shield's specifically for caldari, need to be reworked, and the constant armor repairing's need to be put to an end. (Before you say it, minmatar relies more on speed than anything, and are much more viable shield suit's than caldari would/could ever hope to be) healing hives. you forgot armor tankers can sit in a patch of hives and fight you. what would normally be 25 hp/s becomes 25 hp/s plus the hive. so you could get something close to 100 hp/s non stop
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.15 00:38:00 - [55] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: that's not how it works. They are multiplicative, not additive. you do not add the percentages together. You multiply them with the base number in sequence. THIS IS THE STACKING PENALTY CALCULATOR WEBSITE just realized that there is an error with how this calculator orders the modules for computing stacking penalties. stacking penalties are supposed to order the modules in order of highest/greatest bonus to least greatest bonus. this one doesn't, because it is recognizing the number -15 as mathematically "greater" than -35. which is true. but in this case, the greater bonus would be -35 in regards to shield delay reduction bonus. this calculator is flawed according to the intended purpose of stacking penalties. using one flux extender and one shield regulator, the order of stacking penalties should begin with the shield regulator being applied with zero penalty (100% efficiency), and then apply a penalty to the flux extender as it is the next highest bonus to effect shield delays. using the calculator shows that it begins with the flux extender and then applies a penalty to the shield regulator. This will reduce you overall bonus. the goal, as stated below the calculator in the link, is to provide the maximum bonus
idlerowl Old-Type Loud and Dawn 27	Posted - 2015.07.15 19:01:00 - [56] - Quote Nice topic Need shield repair and triage point for repair tool . Now triage point and repair to armor only. It's not fair In a squad in particular. I want to wear Caldari assault suit . But now I wear amarr assault suit , to won the watch . Armor tank squad take big WP , by many triage point . Shield tank squad very poor WP , because no triage point. So, repair tools wants to attach a function , shield triage point . I want to wear Caldari assault suit , again .
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.07.15 19:23:00 - [57] - Quote idlerowl wrote: Nice topic Need shield repair and triage point for repair tool . Now triage point and repair to armor only. It's not fair In a squad in particular. I want to wear Caldari assault suit . But now I wear amarr assault suit , to won the watch . Armor tank squad take big WP , by many triage point . Shield tank squad very poor WP , because no triage point. So, repair tools wants to attach a function , shield triage point . I want to wear Caldari assault suit , again . Actually, the Caldari Sentinel in our spreadsheet is balanced under the assumption that shields won't have a triage tool. Without any triage support, the Cal Sent would be superior. AND THEN STEVE BUSCEMI SHOWS UP ON A FLYING PIG FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON
Lenz Hong Horizons' Edge No Context 31	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:00:00 - [58] - Quote Have not looked at this in a while but.. the armor bonus for Reactive and Ferroscale Plates don't exist anymore? If still exist, why the values (60 and 75) don't have the bonus? And for general penalty, would make sense to have less depleted delay or recharge penalty (for the first) but start adding with the penalty rule for any other? (kinda as a reversed damage penalty)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:43:00 - [59] - Quote Lenz Hong wrote: Have not looked at this in a while but.. the armor bonus for Reactive and Ferroscale Plates don't exist anymore? If still exist, why the values (60 and 75) don't have the bonus? And for general penalty, would make sense to have less depleted delay or recharge penalty (for the first) but start adding with the penalty rule for any other? (kinda as a reversed damage penalty) The missing bonus is a known and confirmed bug. Team rattati is working to untangle the spaghetti to find the problem. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 11	Posted - 2015.07.22 12:49:00 - [60] - Quote Bump @Ripley_Riley CPM2 candidate. Ripley.Riley on Skype!

Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.07.22 13:29:00 - [61] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Bump Oww!!! Be more careful with yer' driving you shitposter! AND THEN STEVE BUSCEMI SHOWS UP ON A FLYING PIG FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON
Soul Cairn Smart Deploy 197	Posted - 2015.07.23 05:36:00 - [62] - Quote I love you. Don't be fooled, I'm Caldari Vehicular Specialist Grandmaster Bump
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.23 06:11:00 - [63] - Quote Soul Cairn wrote: I love you. Just as long as you're loving on cat or ripley I don't understand this "love" thing. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 957	Posted - 2015.07.23 06:13:00 - [64] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Soul Cairn wrote: I love you. Just as long as you're loving on cat or ripley I don't understand this "love" thing. Breakin' stuff breaks not only stuff but hearts included Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.23 06:25:00 - [65] - Quote BREAKIN ALL THE THINGS!!! WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


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