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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
RUST415
3
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
The reason the game is sub par is because of the above problems -- hit detection and fast moving objects breaking it. The game itself as a FPS is awesome and that's why I've been playing it for years on a system with less computing capacity than my tablet.
As a pilot with no on the ground game, why not simply leave that to those of us who actually do it? |
DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Ripley wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:"Thriller" has been a function of every single FPS where there are 1:1 CQC combat. That doesn't make it a good thing. And thankfully more top end gaming developers are seeing it that way too and are slowly moving away from floaty silly mechanics like super strafe, and moving more towards animation and physics based movement that require more thought and less twitch, aka, more skill. Really? Name one.
Star Citizen comes to mind. Most other companies don't offer the level of transparency that they do so it's more difficult to see specific examples, but more and more games are moving onto more realistic engines that better replicate physics, and in ANY game that has a more physics based approach, strafing will have to die because (currently accepted) strafing has literally no place in physics what so ever.
Leadfoot10 wrote:The reason the game is sub par is because of the above problems -- hit detection and fast moving objects breaking it.
As a pilot with no on the ground game, why not simply leave that to those of us who actually do it?
Because strafing should die in a fire. So, I bring wood. And fuel. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
RUST415
3
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
Not on a PS3, they're not.
Real life war is no fun. You die the first time you're hit. Please don't try to interject it too much into a game that's supposed to be fun, otherwise you lose the audience. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:
Ps. Strafing isn't a skill. Want to test your FPS skills? Go play CS:GO. You'll test how good your aim is there.
Oh **** yeah....... the guys who are good there are great because their ability to pick of targets with head shots from long range is crazy.
No strafing in that worth mentioning. Cover and corners are a must. Screening grenades are as good as area denial molotovs and direct damage frags...... and the general strategy of the maps is pretty interesting when you watch higher levels of play.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Who the hell plays Start Citizen?
They don't interject reality based physics on UE3 on a PS3, that's for sure.
Real life war is no fun. You die the first time you're hit. Please don't try to interject it too much into a game that's supposed to be fun, otherwise you lose the audience.
Well of course they can't put good programming on the PS3, I think no one's going to argue that lol.
And currently over 1 million people have actively backed SC...soo...you know
If you want a "fun" shooter, go play splattoon. If you want a tactical shooter, then you probably want to tone back on the floaty gamey mechanics that really have no place in a tactical shooter. The game industry is evolving thank God, so hopefully there becomes a more apparent divide between realistic based games, and games that are just fun focused with no real care for physics.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
RUST415
3
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:44:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'd hope you could balance them both....but if not, I'll take fun over reality every time. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:
I'll tell you what I think bad games are. Games where gun game matters less than who steps out of cover first, where you can advance and push and there's action. Not standing behind a box, taking a few shots, and scurrying for cover once you detect enemy fire.
Fair enough that you think that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK8fsTy8ZAE
CS:GO practically takes that tactical positioning/overwatch aspect of gameplay and demands it at the highest levels of competition. BTW I only picked de.Nuke because I love this map and only NiP because they are arguably the best Nuke players out there, right Catmerc?
I quite like this aspect of tactical shooter.
You weapons are effectively very similar with some minor differences. Ammunition and Grenades are limited assets and need to be used intelligently, money limits what you can bring to a fight (actually opting for 'eco' rounds where you buy less gear is a strategic choice though it costs you that round effectively), and maps are designed to infantry combat allowing for multiple approaches.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
RUST415
3
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
CS:GO could be perhaps the worst FPS I've ever played and bears no resemblance to Dust in any way, shape or form. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:CS:GO could be perhaps the worst FPS I've ever played and bears no resemblance to Dust in any way, shape or form.
The millions of new accounts per month created, avid following, massive player based, and Major League Gaming circuits would like to disagree with you.
However despite that CS:GO is what would be classified as a Tactical Shooter.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
RUST415
3
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
It doesn't disagree with me at all -- CS:GO is completely unlike dust in every way.
In my younger days, I played in MLG an other competitive environments, but I simply don't like Instant kill shooter, that's all. |
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.06.25 00:52:00 -
[41] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:CS:GO could be perhaps the worst FPS I've ever played and bears no resemblance to Dust in any way, shape or form. The millions of new accounts per month created, avid following, massive player based, and Major League Gaming circuits would like to disagree with you. However despite that CS:GO is what would be classified as a Tactical Shooter.
Isn't it basically THE accepted pinnacle of actual skill based FPS gameplay? Hence why so much money is shelled out in rewards for Esports for it? |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
RUST415
3
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Posted - 2015.06.25 01:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
lol As if "skill based" is a substantive measurement, or has anything to do with personal preference.
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.06.25 01:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:lol As if "skill based" is a substantive measurement, or has anything to do with personal preference.
No, but it does have to do with the amount of thought put into any given match, and the required effort to keep up with that thought. So, games that are more focused on tactical gameplay tend to be put higher up on the "skill" ladder, which then allows them to enter the E sports scene and be funded because people typically like watching intelligent teams of skilled players duke it out using tactics, as opposed to people just smashing their faces against each other until one side has more kills.
It's all subjective though. We just play what we like to play, and watch what we like to watch. That's the beauty of the game industry, there are so many different options that just because one game doesn't fit your idea of good, plenty of others are out there for you.
And if "skill based" isn't a measurement, then how can you say strafing is a skill?
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
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Posted - 2015.06.25 01:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:True Adamance wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:CS:GO could be perhaps the worst FPS I've ever played and bears no resemblance to Dust in any way, shape or form. The millions of new accounts per month created, avid following, massive player based, and Major League Gaming circuits would like to disagree with you. However despite that CS:GO is what would be classified as a Tactical Shooter. Isn't it basically THE accepted pinnacle of actual skill based FPS gameplay? Hence why so much money is shelled out in rewards for Esports for it?
Pretty much I suppose. I'm not wholly familiar with Esports but I do like the CS:GO stuff...... and yeah it does honestly seem like one of the really sink intensive games. I play it every so often but I am by no means good compared to some of the other players.
I can be incredibly fast paced, grenade placement and usage is insanely important to push through choke points, there is no ADS so moving while firing automatically is practically impossible, and orientations on the maps is key.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.06.25 01:30:00 -
[45] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:True Adamance wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:CS:GO could be perhaps the worst FPS I've ever played and bears no resemblance to Dust in any way, shape or form. The millions of new accounts per month created, avid following, massive player based, and Major League Gaming circuits would like to disagree with you. However despite that CS:GO is what would be classified as a Tactical Shooter. Isn't it basically THE accepted pinnacle of actual skill based FPS gameplay? Hence why so much money is shelled out in rewards for Esports for it? Pretty much I suppose. I'm not wholly familiar with Esports but I do like the CS:GO stuff...... and yeah it does honestly seem like one of the really sink intensive games. I play it every so often but I am by no means good compared to some of the other players. I can be incredibly fast paced, grenade placement and usage is insanely important to push through choke points, there is no ADS so moving while firing automatically is practically impossible, and orientations on the maps is key.
I've never played it but back when I was ravenously into Starcraft 2 it was mentioned a lot at various E sports tournaments and what not. Particularly in Korea, the gaming mecca of Earth lol |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
10
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Posted - 2015.06.25 01:30:00 -
[46] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Dust wasn't a twitch shooter before, and all those things mattered. The "Dust Dance Revolution", as you put it, really only applies to CQC, as it should be, IMO. Don't believe me? Try strafing through RR fire at 60m, and let's talk again. Rapidly moving left and right isn't tactical or twitch really. It's just a strategy players discovered that capitalizes on Dust's rapid strafe speeds, sub-par hit detection, and lack of realistic physics.
- Sub-par hit detection: This one is a wild card since it can be based on things like what regions players are in, hit boxes, wireless vs. wired connections. Difficult to diagnose, difficult to fix.
- Lack of realistic physics: My personal preference. This would require a massive development time investment. CCP Shanghai's small team would be stretched thin for no telling how many months to make this happen, during which time we probably would get much not content. Do you want to delay Warlords 1.2 and 1.3 by 1 - 4 months just to fix wiggle strafing? I sure as hell don't. Plus, we don't even know if something like this is even possible on the PS3 with Dust in it's current state.
- Rapid strafe speeds: Simple tweaking of numbers. Changes that can (obviously) be done via hotfix. CCP Rattati probably spent, what, 2 or 3 weeks reviewing the current movement speeds to make a decision. Fast turn around time and easy implementation. We have a winnar.
Is nerfing strafe speeds the way I would like to see this wiggle strafing bullshit handled? No, but the other options take more time than we can reasonably expect from CCP Shanghai at this time. If Dust gets ported to PS4 or PC then I will heavily encourage CCP to consider a physics based solution and dedicate real effort to acceptable hit detection.
Leadfoot10 wrote:Just because your fingers and FPS skills are sub-par doesn't mean the rest of us should be penalized for it. This thread reads, to me, like a who's who of bad thumbs.
Then again, I love 1:1 fights, and I've won lots of them and lost lots more of them. So take the above FWIW.  Lead, listen homie. I suck at Dust 514. Yet I can deploy in a GalAssault, wiggle around in front of people, and manage 6 to 10 KDRs despite being pretty terribad. Sometimes I find someone who wiggles better than me and that number dips to 1 to 2 KDR.
Point is, wiggling is effectively making giving me "skill" I don't have. My lifetime KDR hovers around 1.3. That's my actual skill level. Any tactic that increases my KDR 8 fold is probably fucky, don't you think?
@Ripley_Riley CPM2 candidate. Ripley.Riley on Skype!
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
RUST415
3
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Posted - 2015.06.25 02:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sorry, but I don't believe the 8 to 10 KDR in Gal Assault for one second.
Moving past that, they are all skills -- tactical and twitch. Which each of us prefer is simply the lens through which we view this discussion.
Different strokes for different folks, as they say. |
bathtubist
Destinys Immortals
Rise Of Legion.
132
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Posted - 2015.06.25 03:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Am I the only one who sees this going bad? It's going to make everything so bland. IMO
nah I see good things coming
no need to turn around brother ur friendly logi bathtubist is repping ya
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.06.25 04:09:00 -
[49] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:Am I the only one who sees this going bad? It's going to make everything so bland. IMO mass driver spam from jump fits on the poor folk that cant strafe out of it means a nerf comes for something else. I suspect there's a lot of truth to this post.
I agree. The 'feel' of Dust is about to go downhill. We're collectively paying for poorly written shooter code that CCP won't/can't fix.
Camping and explosive spam(as if there wasn't enough already) incoming.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Heimdallr69
Negative-Feedback.
5
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Posted - 2015.06.25 04:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
Movement nerf will decrease TTK soon this will be space COD...back in my day dust actually took skill now you got crazy AA and fast TTK which both will be even greater when the movement nerf happens..just remember I spoke out against it but you will all find out the hard way..unless you have no gun game then this actually benefits you
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Alaika Arbosa
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.06.25 07:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Movement nerf will decrease TTK soon this will be space COD...back in my day dust actually took skill now you got crazy AA and fast TTK which both will be even greater when the movement nerf happens..just remember I spoke out against it but you will all find out the hard way..unless you have no gun game then this actually benefits you FYI strafing may not take skill but neither does shooting someone when your AA does all the work.. That takes sooo much skill 
Personally, I say remove them both.
No DDR, no aimbot
I won't dodge another silver bullet
Just to save a little face
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.25 07:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:CS:GO could be perhaps the worst FPS I've ever played and bears no resemblance to Dust in any way, shape or form.
If I liked games like this I would have joined the Marines.
Hi nerd. I like realism in my combat movement and aiming.
Even Destiny makes the wiggle dance impossible, so no, it's not a major part of every FPS.
And yes I did enlist in the marines. It's one of the many readons I find wiggle wiggle 514 idiotic.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.06.25 08:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Dust Dance Revolution
sounds like a cool game, when is this going to be released?
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
10
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Posted - 2015.06.25 09:22:00 -
[54] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Sorry, but I don't believe the 8 to 10 KDR in Gal Assault for one second. I said 6 to 10, but okay. I don't have the means to capture it on video, but would some EoM screen captures be enough for you?
@Ripley_Riley CPM2 candidate. Ripley.Riley on Skype!
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Alaika Arbosa
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.06.25 13:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:CS:GO could be perhaps the worst FPS I've ever played and bears no resemblance to Dust in any way, shape or form.
If I liked games like this I would have joined the Marines. Hi nerd. I like realism in my combat movement and aiming. Even Destiny makes the wiggle dance impossible, so no, it's not a major part of every FPS. And yes I did enlist in the marines. It's one of the many readons I find wiggle wiggle 514 idiotic.
They didn't want me because of psych reasons
Damn my teenage years and LSD, I bet if I had waited 4-5 years I would've been accepted (I tried enlisting in '97)
I won't dodge another silver bullet
Just to save a little face
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.25 15:28:00 -
[56] - Quote
97 was when I achieved boot camp.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Asad Thahab-Jabal
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.06.25 15:50:00 -
[57] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:What FPS player worth his salt plays Start Citizen?  Those "leading edge developers" don't interject reality based physics on UE3 on a PS3, that's for sure. Real life war is no fun. You die the first time you're hit. Please don't try to interject it too much into a game that's supposed to be fun, otherwise you risk losing the audience (if they haven't already left).
Isn't this where the unrealistic shields and body armor powered suits co.e into play? |
Heimdallr69
Negative-Feedback.
5
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Posted - 2015.06.25 15:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:CS:GO could be perhaps the worst FPS I've ever played and bears no resemblance to Dust in any way, shape or form.
If I liked games like this I would have joined the Marines. Hi nerd. I like realism in my combat movement and aiming. Even Destiny makes the wiggle dance impossible, so no, it's not a major part of every FPS. And yes I did enlist in the marines. It's one of the many readons I find wiggle wiggle 514 idiotic.
Wait do the marines still have you stay still? I remember when we did that back in my day but we only had blue and grey Uniforms
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Asad Thahab-Jabal
Incorruptibles
1
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Posted - 2015.06.25 16:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:CS:GO could be perhaps the worst FPS I've ever played and bears no resemblance to Dust in any way, shape or form.
If I liked games like this I would have joined the Marines. Hi nerd. I like realism in my combat movement and aiming. Even Destiny makes the wiggle dance impossible, so no, it's not a major part of every FPS. And yes I did enlist in the marines. It's one of the many readons I find wiggle wiggle 514 idiotic. Wait do the marines still have you stay still? I remember when we did that back in my day but we only had blue and grey Uniforms
If you were a.marine, and I am not questioning this. Did they teach you tactics or to run out on the battlefield and simply dance back and forth while firing on the enemy? AIT must have really changed. |
Heimdallr69
Negative-Feedback.
5
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Posted - 2015.06.25 16:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:CS:GO could be perhaps the worst FPS I've ever played and bears no resemblance to Dust in any way, shape or form.
If I liked games like this I would have joined the Marines. Hi nerd. I like realism in my combat movement and aiming. Even Destiny makes the wiggle dance impossible, so no, it's not a major part of every FPS. And yes I did enlist in the marines. It's one of the many readons I find wiggle wiggle 514 idiotic. Wait do the marines still have you stay still? I remember when we did that back in my day but we only had blue and grey Uniforms If you were a.marine, and I am not questioning this. Did they teach you tactics or to run out on the battlefield and simply dance back and forth while firing on the enemy? AIT must have really changed.
I was never in the military I apologize my joke wasn't very good...the blue and grey uniforms was the part that was supposed to make people realize..civil war..I apologize that was bad
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