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The Attorney General 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 02:07:00 - [1] - Quote They hop out mid fight to throw lai dais along with their passengers. They roll with AV on their suit as well for maximum ball licking. This game is bad, sure. But the players are why its dead. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
LT SHANKS You In The Nutz 5	Posted - 2015.05.21 02:16:00 - [2] - Quote Sounds like a viable tactic to me.
Golden Day Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 02:19:00 - [3] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: Sounds like a scrubby tactic to me. FTFY! Im just a glorified blueberry
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.21 02:29:00 - [4] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: They hop out mid fight to throw lai dais along with their passengers. They roll with AV on their suit as well for maximum ball licking. This game is bad, sure. But the players are why its dead. This is primarily why I suggest having some sort of embarking or disembarking modifier for vehicles. This is a huge issue with Tank Combat in this game right now. A Tanker will effectively win the fight or their opponent make a mistake, rather than the winning pilot being rewarded or the losing tanker being punished, they pathetically are rewarded instead for losing. What is the purpose of fighting in Tanks anyway if you simply hop out when you lose to use high Alpha AV to trivialise the fight. Would it be fair if every time I would normally lose a dropsuit I transform instantly into an HAV? "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
tal mrak-thanl Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 02:40:00 - [5] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Would it be fair if every time I would normally lose a dropsuit I transform instantly into an HAV? That would be the coolest thing I ever saw. Director - Corrosive Synergy
jordy mack WarRavens 468	Posted - 2015.05.21 02:53:00 - [6] - Quote mmm pilot tears... legit strat, htfu! :) Less QQ more PewPew
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 617	Posted - 2015.05.21 02:55:00 - [7] - Quote They drive a tank? Isn't that the requirement? Shields, the silent killer.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 7	Posted - 2015.05.21 03:06:00 - [8] - Quote Golden Day wrote: LT SHANKS wrote: Sounds like a scrubby tactic to me. FTFY! Only if they're on the receiving end.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 398	Posted - 2015.05.21 03:13:00 - [9] - Quote tal mrak-thanl wrote: True Adamance wrote: Would it be fair if every time I would normally lose a dropsuit I transform instantly into an HAV? That would be the coolest thing I ever saw. More than meets the eye. Moo? . . . Le Moo?
Ralden Caster Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 240	Posted - 2015.05.21 03:14:00 - [10] - Quote I remember a time where two other forge gunners and I would drive our LAV up to tanks, simultaneously jump out, and managed to wreak havoc on the unsuspecting pilots. Have you ever looked up at the stars and realize that somewhere, out there, there is always something ON FIRE?

Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 03:21:00 - [11] - Quote If we had pilot suits which would ideally be a scout suit with only a sidearm and tanks could only accept drivers in pilot suits, this wouldn't be an issue. But alas... O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
golpe 4 Eternal Beings 13	Posted - 2015.05.21 03:35:00 - [12] - Quote the only way to deal with a tank just dont ** with them there like umm a snake they only ** with u if u provoke them so just leave them be or wait for av support
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 4	Posted - 2015.05.21 03:38:00 - [13] - Quote golpe 4 wrote: the only way to deal with a tank just dont ** with them there like umm a snake they only ** with u if u provoke them so just leave them be or wait for av support If a snake hisses and lunges at me, I will sure as hell retaliate. Sniper Rifles are for Nitrogenous Dioxide Borons First to PM me with common name wins (no Hyansaru, u win too much ;P)
Scheneighnay McBob And the ButtPirates 6	Posted - 2015.05.21 03:55:00 - [14] - Quote They have proto gear on for some reason inside their tank, even though it doesn't actually help them in any way Some details can be ignored
Lupus Wolf Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:03:00 - [15] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: If we had pilot suits which would ideally be a scout suit with only a sidearm and tanks could only accept drivers in pilot suits, this wouldn't be an issue. But alas... Making vehicles ONLY accept pilot suits would just kill vehicles imo. Forcing someone to skill into a suit just to use a vehicle isn't right. I do like the fact that it would fix pilots with AV, but while it's scrubby, it's still a viable tactic, and if the passengers jump out with it, that's still teamwork. Personally, I think a simple an exit delay would fix this, but that's just me. Though I would LOVE to see the pilot suit. "Dogfighting with missiles is like watching two armless kids try to catch a baseball." - Dust Fiend
Foundation Seldon Demonite's Legion 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:09:00 - [16] - Quote Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of the flaming remains of your once beloved proto tank. I'll stop using LaiDais when they stop working.
Nachos Rogue Instincts New Eden's Heros 92	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:12:00 - [17] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: golpe 4 wrote: the only way to deal with a tank just dont ** with them there like umm a snake they only ** with u if u provoke them so just leave them be or wait for av support If a snake hisses and lunges at me, I will sure as hell retaliate. you make no sense boy xavier zor xavier zor
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:12:00 - [18] - Quote I generally think the majority of you are missing the point of this post. The issue here is that in a tank engagement we have a situation where one party beats his opponent yet that opponent can instantly escape death, then apply an insane amount of anti-vehicle fire and essentially punish the other player for winning the fight. E.G- I am shooting at Aero for some reason. I am winning. He instantly changes location appearing with more armour and shield and starts apply damage from homing grenades and possibly a homing rocket launcher or or rapid fire machinegun. "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
Foundation Seldon Demonite's Legion 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:22:00 - [19] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I generally thing the majority of you are missing the point of this post. The issue here is that in a tank engagement we have a situation where one party beats his opponent yet that opponent can instantly escape death, then apply an insane amount of anti-vehicle fire and essentially punish the other player for winning the fight. The point of the thread is pretty self evident, to complain about the tactic. But this is a pretty a good starting point for a conversation, the solution would seem to be a pretty obvious one as well. Leaving any vehicle in the game should require a player to hold down the escape button for X amount of time. Perhaps accompanied with some extra UI to show a progress bar for the actual leaving of the vehicle. Starting the progress bar immediately locks up the controls of the vehicles and makes you or anyone else in the vehicle unable to shoot or aim. At the point where the progress bar fills everyone is ejected at once. Gunners/Passengers can leave independently of the pilot if they so choose without effecting the vehicle mechanics. Pilots leaving cause the entire vehicle to shut down. Kills 2 birds with 1 stone. It'll allow pilots to force eject and recall if they so choose and still allows gunners to exit and enter freely while making it so the meta surrounding jumping out of a tank and spamming Lai Dais more of a commitment. ie. you won't be able to leave a tank right before it explodes unless you'd already been charging the exit bar. Additional mechanics to consider? Maybe the pilot leaving the vehicle causes any vehicle modules to shut down, making it easier for someone to kill a player trying to escape their vehicle.
Nachos Rogue Instincts New Eden's Heros 92	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:24:00 - [20] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: True Adamance wrote: I generally thing the majority of you are missing the point of this post. The issue here is that in a tank engagement we have a situation where one party beats his opponent yet that opponent can instantly escape death, then apply an insane amount of anti-vehicle fire and essentially punish the other player for winning the fight. The point of the thread is pretty self evident, to complain about the tactic. But this is a pretty a good starting point for a conversation, the solution would seem to be a pretty obvious one as well. Leaving any vehicle in the game should require a player to hold down the escape button for X amount of time. Perhaps accompanied with some extra UI to show a progress bar for the actual leaving of the vehicle. Starting the progress bar immediately locks up the controls of the vehicles and makes you or anyone else in the vehicle unable to shoot or aim. At the point where the progress bar fills everyone is ejected at once. Gunners/Passengers can leave independently of the pilot if they so choose without effecting the vehicle mechanics. Pilots leaving cause the entire vehicle to shut down. Kills 2 birds with 1 stone. It'll allow pilots to force eject and recall if they so choose and still allows gunners to exit and enter freely while making it so the meta surrounding jumping out of a tank and spamming Lai Dais more of a commitment. ie. you won't be able to leave a tank right before it explodes unless you'd already been charging the exit bar. Additional mechanics to consider? Maybe the pilot leaving the vehicle causes any vehicle modules to shut down, making it easier for someone to kill a player trying to escape their vehicle. OR just make pilot suits, basically scout suits without a grenade slot, and only pilot suits can enter HAV's xavier zor xavier zor

No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:28:00 - [21] - Quote So the issue here is that the pilot doesn't 'go down with the ship' and instead tries to actually win the fight while he's still able? I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem with someone attempting to still win an engagement even after they've lost their largest asset against someone who still has their largest asset. Maybe I don't understand the frustration because I'm not a tanker, but the fact that the opposing tank has a person inside it who can still get out and shoot shouldn't be that surprising and it shouldn't be that upsetting when they keep fighting after they've lost their tank, either.
Nachos Rogue Instincts New Eden's Heros 92	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:31:00 - [22] - Quote Imagine the EvE universe; You and another battleship are having an engagement...you are just about to destroy him then he jumps out with the firepower OF THE SAME BATTLESHIP HE JUST ESCAPED and starts to blow you up....that makes no sense in EvE, but it should also make no sense in Dust...they are a LINKED universe aren't they? xavier zor xavier zor
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:37:00 - [23] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: So the issue here is that the pilot doesn't 'go down with the ship' and instead tries to actually win the fight while he's still able? I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem with someone attempting to still win an engagement even after they've lost their largest asset against someone who still has their largest asset. Maybe I don't understand the frustration because I'm not a tanker, but the fact that the opposing tank has a person inside it who can still get out and shoot shouldn't be that surprising and it shouldn't be that upsetting when they keep fighting after they've lost their tank, either. No Mr Alt it's that this specific mechanics punishes someone who is superior within their medium by instantly allowing another player to transfer from that medium into a a counter role while at the same time reaping the benefits of already having inflicted a large amount of damage. The fact is that this does not make for 'good' or 'enjoyable' gameplay and only serves to be a frustrating cop out. "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
SLENDER M4N Murphys-Law 469	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:40:00 - [24] - Quote grabs poop corn Yes, I typed poop corn. Deal with it Roman said he would give me candy, I recieved a rainbow trout from his fishing trips instead. Am disappoint
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:46:00 - [25] - Quote Lupus Wolf wrote: Daddrobit wrote: If we had pilot suits which would ideally be a scout suit with only a sidearm and tanks could only accept drivers in pilot suits, this wouldn't be an issue. But alas... Making vehicles ONLY accept pilot suits would just kill vehicles imo. Forcing someone to skill into a suit just to use a vehicle isn't right. I do like the fact that it would fix pilots with AV, but while it's scrubby, it's still a viable tactic, and if the passengers jump out with it, that's still teamwork. Personally, I think a simple an exit delay would fix this, but that's just me. Though I would LOVE to see the pilot suit. Meh, I think having absolute invulnerability to over 70% of the games weapons should require some investment. And an enter/exit delay would certainly be welcome as well. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:47:00 - [26] - Quote SLENDER M4N wrote: grabs poop corn Yes, I typed poop corn. Deal with it You eat poop corn? As in the corn that you poop out? Interesting........ "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
Nachos Rogue Instincts New Eden's Heros 93	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:57:00 - [27] - Quote Pilot suits solve everything xavier zor xavier zor
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 16	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:59:00 - [28] - Quote True Adamance wrote: No Mr Alt it's that this specific mechanics punishes someone who is superior within their medium by instantly allowing another player to transfer from that medium into a a counter role while at the same time reaping the benefits of already having inflicted a large amount of damage. The fact is that this does not make for 'good' or 'enjoyable' gameplay and only serves to be a frustrating cop out. I'm assuming 'Mr. Alt' is an insult and I have no idea why you would be insulting me just because I'm not posting on my main. We can have a reasonable discussion without being rude. I just like this name better. It makes me chuckle, and I hoped others would, too. If I could rename my main I totally would. Back on subject; again, yeah, it sucks, but those are risks you're well aware of when you get onto the field. Now I admit that being able to immediately jump out of the tank is pretty ******, and if there were some sort of delay on exiting, like was suggested on the previous page, it'd probably do wonders for tank engagements. Not only would it make it far more difficult for them to get out last second, you would know they had escaped their tank when they stop firing for a couple of seconds and you would then know to be on the lookout. It would have the added benefit of making them a much easier target while they tried to escape. My thing is that it seems like people are acting like they have literally no way to defend themselves when someone does get out last second. Did you destroy a tank that had a +2 next to the pilot's name, but you only got two kills when it was destroyed? Assume someone got out and either retreat to recover or be on high alert. Do you see the guy charging up their forge gun, plasma cannon, or swarm launcher? GTFO ASAP or hope you can get them before they get you. Did they kill you before you even noticed they escaped? Tough luck, it could have been anyone else in the vicinity who happened to have an AV weapon and it'd suck just as hard.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.21 05:07:00 - [29] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: True Adamance wrote: No Mr Alt it's that this specific mechanics punishes someone who is superior within their medium by instantly allowing another player to transfer from that medium into a a counter role while at the same time reaping the benefits of already having inflicted a large amount of damage. The fact is that this does not make for 'good' or 'enjoyable' gameplay and only serves to be a frustrating cop out. I'm assuming 'Mr. Alt' is an insult and I have no idea why you would be insulting me just because I'm not posting on my main. We can have a reasonable discussion without being rude. I just like this name better. It makes me chuckle, and I hoped others would, too. If I could rename my main I totally would. Back on subject; again, yeah, it sucks, but those are risks you're well aware of when you get onto the field. Now I admit that being able to immediately jump out of the tank is pretty ******, and if there were some sort of delay on exiting, like was suggested on the previous page, it'd probably do wonders for tank engagements. Not only would it make it far more difficult for them to get out last second, you would know they had escaped their tank when they stop firing for a couple of seconds and you would then know to be on the lookout. It would have the added benefit of making them a much easier target while they tried to escape. My thing is that it seems like people are acting like they have literally no way to defend themselves when someone does get out last second. Did you destroy a tank that had a +2 next to the pilot's name, but you only got two kills when it was destroyed? Assume someone got out and either retreat to recover or be on high alert. Do you see the guy charging up their forge gun, plasma cannon, or swarm launcher? GTFO ASAP or hope you can get them before they get you. Did they kill you before you even noticed they escaped? Tough luck, it could have been anyone else in the vicinity who happened to have an AV weapon and it'd suck just as hard. It's not an insult it's a matter of fact as your yourself admitted. A fair few people on the forums like to make snarky comments on alts for the sake of it...... unlike myself who like to make snarky comments on his main. I am well aware its a risk I take on when I deploy the vehicle the only reason I comment on it is because I believe it to be bad mechanic that punishes a victorious player for being better than their counter part. Once that player vacates their vehicle they are immediately free of the death they should have incurred instead reappearing in a dropsuit with full HP, an AV weapon, and more oft than not close to your damaged HAV with a powerful anti-tank grenade that leaves little in the way of time to react given they home in on your vehicle. "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 05:10:00 - [30] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: They hop out mid fight to throw lai dais along with their passengers. They roll with AV on their suit as well for maximum ball licking. This game is bad, sure. But the players are why its dead. having gunners with AV is a smart choice. If you tried to go solo vs a tank with 2 av gunners who hop out then you are a muppet. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.

Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 730	Posted - 2015.05.21 05:27:00 - [31] - Quote True Adamance wrote: The Attorney General wrote: They hop out mid fight to throw lai dais along with their passengers. They roll with AV on their suit as well for maximum ball licking. This game is bad, sure. But the players are why its dead. This is primarily why I suggest having some sort of embarking or disembarking modifier for vehicles. This is a huge issue with Tank Combat in this game right now. A Tanker will effectively win the fight or their opponent make a mistake, rather than the winning pilot being rewarded or the losing tanker being punished, they pathetically are rewarded instead for losing. What is the purpose of fighting in Tanks anyway if you simply hop out when you lose to use high Alpha AV to trivialise the fight. Would it be fair if every time I would normally lose a dropsuit I transform instantly into an HAV? +1. I support the addition of Transformers. The CPM candidate we need, not the one we want. The candidate for the rest of us.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 08:21:00 - [32] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: They hop out mid fight to throw lai dais along with their passengers. They roll with AV on their suit as well for maximum ball licking. This game is bad, sure. But the players are why its dead. This brings me to wonder why this is the case... Is it because AV is stronger against vehicles than vehicles themselves? Or is it because they don't know how to properly play vehicles? Or maybe they wanna continue the fight even after they have been "beaten" already?
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 08:22:00 - [33] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: They hop out mid fight to throw lai dais along with their passengers. They roll with AV on their suit as well for maximum ball licking. This game is bad, sure. But the players are why its dead. How to identify an old grumpy tanker from way back... Read the name. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Deadly Goliath Omega Warlords 65	Posted - 2015.05.21 12:26:00 - [34] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: They hop out mid fight to throw lai dais along with their passengers. They roll with AV on their suit as well for maximum ball licking. This game is bad, sure. But the players are why its dead. From what you said I understand you are the newbie here, using AV in your tank is not a bad tactic, I prefer using an assault so I can jump out and kill any AV that is bothering me as I use a Missle Tank. I'll whip ya head boy
Green Living Gallente Gay Swag Club 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 12:28:00 - [35] - Quote Ralden Caster wrote: I remember a time where two other forge gunners and I would drive our LAV up to tanks, simultaneously jump out, and managed to wreak havoc on the unsuspecting pilots. My friend and I did this as well. Dual Plasma Cannons and LA Dais made short work of most tanks.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.21 13:10:00 - [36] - Quote Pilot Suit * Squishy, low-profile scout-like frame (w/cloak) * Sidearm only, no grenades * Needed to competently pilot a vehicle Vehicles piloted by a pilot travel at 100% of today's movement speeds. Vehicles piloted by a non-pilot travel at 70% of today's movement speeds. If movement penalties alone are insufficient to set the pilot apart, could also include penalties to turret rotation, damage, and so on. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 10	Posted - 2015.05.21 13:15:00 - [37] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Pilot Suit * Squishy, low-profile scout-like frame (w/cloak) * Sidearm only, no grenades * Needed to competently pilot a vehicle Vehicles piloted by a pilot travel at 100% of today's movement speeds. Vehicles piloted by a non-pilot travel at 70% of today's movement speeds. If movement penalties alone are insufficient to set the pilot apart, could also penalties to turret rotation, damage, and so on. Pilot dropsuits could be required to receive vehicle skill bonuses. E.g. Vehicle Electronics gives 5% more vehicle CPU per level. If you are piloting it in an assault, sentinel, or scout dropsuit you do not get that extra 5% CPU per level, which could potentially invalidate your fitting. @Ripley_Riley "Ripley > Soraya" - Arkena Wyrnspire
DEATH SURRONDS 0uter.Heaven 13	Posted - 2015.05.21 17:35:00 - [38] - Quote Someone is salty they got straight rekt @the butthurt general. Maybe you should learn how to not get face gapped by a blaster tank before you go hide in GD bring it to the war room...... Or you to scarred to get your tags laughed at LOLFA
Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4	Posted - 2015.05.21 17:37:00 - [39] - Quote True Adamance wrote: The Attorney General wrote: They hop out mid fight to throw lai dais along with their passengers. They roll with AV on their suit as well for maximum ball licking. This game is bad, sure. But the players are why its dead. This is primarily why I suggest having some sort of embarking or disembarking modifier for vehicles. This is a huge issue with Tank Combat in this game right now. A Tanker will effectively win the fight or their opponent make a mistake, rather than the winning pilot being rewarded or the losing tanker being punished, they pathetically are rewarded instead for losing. What is the purpose of fighting in Tanks anyway if you simply hop out when you lose to use high Alpha AV to trivialise the fight. Would it be fair if every time I would normally lose a dropsuit I transform instantly into an HAV? Just make people automatically have to reload when they exit a tank or make it so they can shot for 3 seconds when exiting. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 17:42:00 - [40] - Quote DEATH SURRONDS wrote: Someone is salty they got straight rekt @the butthurt general. Maybe you should learn how to not get face gapped by a blaster tank before you go hide in GD bring it to the war room...... Or you to scarred to get your tags laughed at LOLFA I do this all the time now due to you. Though lately it's been me jumping out in a pro assault and gunning down the AV. The tears are quite glorious. Tanks - Balancing Turrets

The Attorney General 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 18:44:00 - [41] - Quote DEATH SURRONDS wrote: Someone is salty they got straight rekt @the butthurt general. Maybe you should learn how to not get face gapped by a blaster tank before you go hide in GD bring it to the war room...... Or you to scarred to get your tags laughed at LOLFA lol needs two gunners, can kill an standard tank in a 3 on 1, losses his proto tank to single tanker and says I got rekt? Someone needs to feed this ni*ga some brain food. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.21 19:09:00 - [42] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Pilot Suit * Squishy, low-profile scout-like frame (w/cloak) * Sidearm only, no grenades * Needed to competently pilot a vehicle Vehicles piloted by a pilot travel at 100% of today's movement speeds. Vehicles piloted by a non-pilot travel at 70% of today's movement speeds. If movement penalties alone are insufficient to set the pilot apart, could also penalties to turret rotation, damage, and so on. Pilot dropsuits could be required to receive vehicle skill bonuses. E.g. Vehicle Electronics gives 5% more vehicle CPU per level. If you are piloting it in an assault, sentinel, or scout dropsuit you do not get that extra 5% CPU per level, which could potentially invalidate your fitting. Ah! Your idea is much better! Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Magnus Belmont Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2015.05.21 19:22:00 - [43] - Quote So, the smart thing to do is scrubby? Just so I'm clear, as long as they blow up and die "honorably" by what ever standards you pull out of your butt, it's okay?
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 21:04:00 - [44] - Quote Magnus Belmont wrote: So, the smart thing to do is scrubby? Just so I'm clear, as long as they blow up and die "honorably" by what ever standards you pull out of your butt, it's okay? You're kinda missing the point. Stomping pubs with 6 man 100,000,000 sp Officer squads using Gallogi permascans is also the smart thing to do. The fault is not with the players, it's with CCP's mechanics. Agree with True Adamance that entry/exit animations or a hold button for x seconds to enter/exit is the best possible solution in our current circumstances. Re: The pilot suit. I want to see it in-game a much as anybody, but......i hate the idea of gating access to vehicles through the pilot suit. Imo it's analogous to the terrible mistake made by giving heavies no bandwidth - for a lot of team-oriented players, that update was the last time they seriously used their Heavies. We can find better ways to balance and refine the game than gating access to gameplay, which is an alienating way to do game-design. The pilot suit should have a good set of bonuses, but such that it doesn't crowd general, adaptive, situational use of vehicles off the field. That would cost us playerbase, and rightly so. PSN: RationalSpark
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.21 21:14:00 - [45] - Quote Magnus Belmont wrote: So, the smart thing to do is scrubby? Just so I'm clear, as long as they blow up and die "honorably" by what ever standards you pull out of your butt, it's okay? Again it's not about honourable. I have no expectations of an enemy player, I do not expect them to play by any rules that I would be prepared to dictate to them as 'honour' as I hate that term in video gaming as well. However as I've said three or four times in this thread so far it is not about 'honour' or anything like that it is simply, in my opinion, a poor mechanic that only serves to punish the winning player arbitrarily. "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
Scheneighnay McBob And the ButtPirates 6	Posted - 2015.05.21 21:26:00 - [46] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Pilot Suit * Squishy, low-profile scout-like frame (w/cloak) * Sidearm only, no grenades * Needed to competently pilot a vehicle Vehicles piloted by a pilot travel at 100% of today's movement speeds. Vehicles piloted by a non-pilot travel at 70% of today's movement speeds. If movement penalties alone are insufficient to set the pilot apart, could also include penalties to turret rotation, damage, and so on. LAVs should be an exception, obviously because the driver is exposed. Some details can be ignored
Scheneighnay McBob And the ButtPirates 6	Posted - 2015.05.21 21:27:00 - [47] - Quote Also, the current system is still better than beta. Dropship pilots would lose a fair bit of WP if they didn't go down with their ship. The game would believe they were team-killing, and penalize them for the dropship, and every idiot passenger who didn't bail. Some details can be ignored
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 21:28:00 - [48] - Quote Pilot suit would solve the problem. That is a broken mechanism. Being able to jump out, deal insane amount of h+¡gh alfa AV damage and then jump back inside within 2-3 seconds doesn't sound right. Imagine this in infantry combat. Right before my death i would send a decoy and i would deal just as high damage while still regenerating HP. Caldari Loyalist thecreaturehub fan
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 21:29:00 - [49] - Quote If I am losing my tank, which is a lot when I actually do tank, I am going down with it. Being willing to fight to the bitter end has won its fair share of battles for me. Side note the other day I had a LAV heavy jump out to HMG me and step right into the hot ball of plasma I shot at his LAV. Was quite satisfying. Acquisition is terrible, matchmaking is terrible, your game is still riddled with bugs, you should feel bad.
Gabriel Minutti Eternal Beings 8	Posted - 2015.07.04 14:18:00 - [50] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: So the issue here is that the pilot doesn't 'go down with the ship' and instead tries to actually win the fight while he's still able? I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem with someone attempting to still win an engagement even after they've lost their largest asset against someone who still has their largest asset. Maybe I don't understand the frustration because I'm not a tanker, but the fact that the opposing tank has a person inside it who can still get out and shoot shouldn't be that surprising and it shouldn't be that upsetting when they keep fighting after they've lost their tank, either. You said it yourself...YOU ARE NOT A TANKER. Bye bye. "Listen! Shut the fuck up!"

Gabriel Minutti Eternal Beings 8	Posted - 2015.07.04 14:22:00 - [51] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Pilot Suit * Squishy, low-profile scout-like frame (w/cloak) * Sidearm only, no grenades * Needed to competently pilot a vehicle Vehicles piloted by a pilot travel at 100% of today's movement speeds. Vehicles piloted by a non-pilot travel at 70% of today's movement speeds. If movement penalties alone are insufficient to set the pilot apart, could also include penalties to turret rotation, damage, and so on. I LOVE YOU "Listen! Shut the fuck up!"
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 782	Posted - 2015.07.04 15:00:00 - [52] - Quote All though I do hate it, it is a good tactics and logic to run AV while in a tank. I have a gal forge fit my self (that I don't really use) just in case. I once got hate mail because a blueberry was near me and we destroyed a tank and the guy thought it was me. Doing so is not being a scrub, it's being smart, you think people want to wast 500k on one tank fitting? NO. They will fit to death. CEO of 48th Special Operations Force Twitter-@48SOF Scout and Assault GK.0
Count- -Crotchula Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 81	Posted - 2015.07.04 15:03:00 - [53] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: golpe 4 wrote: the only way to deal with a tank just dont ** with them there like umm a snake they only ** with u if u provoke them so just leave them be or wait for av support If a snake hisses and lunges at me, I will sure as hell retaliate. then u dead son!
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 600	Posted - 2015.07.04 15:22:00 - [54] - Quote It's a valid tactic, but poor game design. If you can get out that fast you should be ejected into the air high enough to need dampeners.
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 147	Posted - 2015.07.04 15:33:00 - [55] - Quote Gabriel Minutti wrote: No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: So the issue here is that the pilot doesn't 'go down with the ship' and instead tries to actually win the fight while he's still able? I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem with someone attempting to still win an engagement even after they've lost their largest asset against someone who still has their largest asset. Maybe I don't understand the frustration because I'm not a tanker, but the fact that the opposing tank has a person inside it who can still get out and shoot shouldn't be that surprising and it shouldn't be that upsetting when they keep fighting after they've lost their tank, either. You said it yourself...YOU ARE NOT A TANKER. Bye bye. So is this what you do? You revive month dead topics to make a snarky, childish comment at someone while not even contributing to the topic you brought back from the dead? For the record, my opinion still hasn't changed. Someone getting out of a tank at some point during the engagement is just something you may have to deal with as another tanker or an AV and it's silly to get upset by it. You have the exact same opportunity to escape your vehicle last second. And if you know they got out you should assume they're ready to counter with AV and should either escape yourself to make it a man on man engagement or hope you can kill them before they kill you. Giving an enter/exit timer and making it more difficult to bail and counter would still be ideal. I play AV a decent amount. I know that if I shoot at a tank or dropship that there are people in those vehicles. I know if they get out and shoot at me I have to deal both with them and the vehicle they escaped, assuming it had a passenger to keep guns aimed at me. At least with another tank or dropship you've got the armor and shields to hold out in a fight. Most tank weapons will one-shot most infantry.
Mister Goo Random Gunz 195	Posted - 2015.07.04 15:40:00 - [56] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: True Adamance wrote: I generally thing the majority of you are missing the point of this post. The issue here is that in a tank engagement we have a situation where one party beats his opponent yet that opponent can instantly escape death, then apply an insane amount of anti-vehicle fire and essentially punish the other player for winning the fight. The point of the thread is pretty self evident, to complain about the tactic. But this is a pretty a good starting point for a conversation, the solution would seem to be a pretty obvious one as well. Leaving any vehicle in the game should require a player to hold down the escape button for X amount of time. Perhaps accompanied with some extra UI to show a progress bar for the actual leaving of the vehicle. Starting the progress bar immediately locks up the controls of the vehicles and makes you or anyone else in the vehicle unable to shoot or aim. At the point where the progress bar fills everyone is ejected at once. Gunners/Passengers can leave independently of the pilot if they so choose without effecting the vehicle mechanics. Pilots leaving cause the entire vehicle to shut down. Kills 2 birds with 1 stone. It'll allow pilots to force eject and recall if they so choose and still allows gunners to exit and enter freely while making it so the meta surrounding jumping out of a tank and spamming Lai Dais more of a commitment. ie. you won't be able to leave a tank right before it explodes unless you'd already been charging the exit bar. Additional mechanics to consider? Maybe the pilot leaving the vehicle causes any vehicle modules to shut down, making it easier for someone to kill a player trying to escape their vehicle. Foundation You just made the most sense I read in a long time about vehicles. This not only fixes 1 scrubby tactic but 3 as it should apply to LAV's and Drop Ships. Heavies should not be able to just hop out and start mowing down people and Drop Ship Pilots should not be able to hop out at the last second to avoid death. after all the time delay could be considered time to clear the area before the explosion of said vehicle. Closed Beta Vet Minmatar Logistics I Repair, Revive, and Replenish. Leave the slaying for Assaults and Heavies.
Knight Soiaire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.07.04 15:42:00 - [57] - Quote tal mrak-thanl wrote: True Adamance wrote: Would it be fair if every time I would normally lose a dropsuit I transform instantly into an HAV? That would be the coolest thing I ever saw. Autobots, roll out!
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 865	Posted - 2015.07.04 18:21:00 - [58] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: Sounds like a viable tactic to me. Sounds like a double dipping, scrub tactic that relies on shoddy power player game mechanics to compete. Low class. To be expected from third world asymetrical warfare types. Using babies as shields seems valid too. Why not? MY CPM2 PLATFORM
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 149	Posted - 2015.07.04 18:44:00 - [59] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: LT SHANKS wrote: Sounds like a viable tactic to me. Sounds like a double dipping, scrub tactic that relies on shoddy power player game mechanics to compete. Low class. To be expected from third world asymetrical warfare types. Using babies as shields seems valid too. Why not? To be fair, many babies aren't going to survive a warzone so they may as well go down as heroes.
tffvbhb Team Bukkakke 9	Posted - 2015.07.05 03:17:00 - [60] - Quote Ralden Caster wrote: I remember a time where two other forge gunners and I would drive our LAV up to tanks, simultaneously jump out, and managed to wreak havoc on the unsuspecting pilots. This is hilarious used to do this all the time

Shadowed Cola Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 358	Posted - 2015.07.05 03:49:00 - [61] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: They hop out mid fight to throw lai dais along with their passengers. They roll with AV on their suit as well for maximum ball licking. This game is bad, sure. But the players are why its dead. lol Attorney, you're still an idiot as you've always been. A tanker should run some sort of AV in there suit, if by chance they do die, they won't be completely defenseless to another tanker. I really doubt you see too many tankers jump out to do AV, but a lot of people are under the assumption Lai Dais have better damage then most large turrets until Proto - and they're right. the only thing i see here is you shitting on yourself in your own ignorance - just like the good ol' days. Nice to see you back.
Gabriel Minutti Eternal Beings 9	Posted - 2015.07.11 08:27:00 - [62] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: Gabriel Minutti wrote: No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: So the issue here is that the pilot doesn't 'go down with the ship' and instead tries to actually win the fight while he's still able? I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem with someone attempting to still win an engagement even after they've lost their largest asset against someone who still has their largest asset. Maybe I don't understand the frustration because I'm not a tanker, but the fact that the opposing tank has a person inside it who can still get out and shoot shouldn't be that surprising and it shouldn't be that upsetting when they keep fighting after they've lost their tank, either. You said it yourself...YOU ARE NOT A TANKER. Bye bye. So is this what you do? You revive month dead topics to make a snarky, childish comment at someone while not even contributing to the topic you brought back from the dead? For the record, my opinion still hasn't changed. Someone getting out of a tank at some point during the engagement is just something you may have to deal with as another tanker or an AV and it's silly to get upset by it. You have the exact same opportunity to escape your vehicle last second. And if you know they got out you should assume they're ready to counter with AV and should either escape yourself to make it a man on man engagement or hope you can kill them before they kill you. Giving an enter/exit timer and making it more difficult to bail and counter would still be ideal. I play AV a decent amount. I know that if I shoot at a tank or dropship that there are people in those vehicles. I know if they get out and shoot at me I have to deal both with them and the vehicle they escaped, assuming it had a passenger to keep guns aimed at me. At least with another tank or dropship you've got the armor and shields to hold out in a fight. Most tank weapons will one-shot most infantry. Yes. I am the spark that revives a post that I think has some good ideas for vehicles... while telling the people that dont know about the subject to stay out of it. o7 Still waiting for the Pilot Role...
demonkiller 12 TERRA R1SING New Eden's Heros 863	Posted - 2015.07.11 09:12:00 - [63] - Quote how is this any different to battlefield?????? everyone who specialises in tanking runs engineer so they can rep their vehicle and an RPG to deal with any enemy vehicles if need be, in fact almost all games with vehicles work like that? what is the problem? you should expect the driver to hop out with AV and be ready
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.07.11 09:24:00 - [64] - Quote It's one of those tactics I hate when happens to me, but i'm not above using. A squad mate jumps into my tank with AV should i make him switch to a medic starter fit? A proto tank is roaming with gunners, should I not bring as much fire power I can with two AV in my outclassed adv tank to finish him off? what is the difference between bringing a solo tank with av riding along in an lav or just having them in a tank to begin with? in an agreed upon duel, sure, it sucks. In a straight fight, anything goes. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Darken-Sol Intruder Excluder 2	Posted - 2015.07.11 11:19:00 - [65] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: golpe 4 wrote: the only way to deal with a tank just dont ** with them there like umm a snake they only ** with u if u provoke them so just leave them be or wait for av support If a snake hisses and lunges at me, I will sure as hell retaliate. Unless its Solid Snake. He'll snap your neck. Crush them
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 197	Posted - 2015.07.11 15:39:00 - [66] - Quote Gabriel Minutti wrote: No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: Gabriel Minutti wrote: No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: So the issue here is that the pilot doesn't 'go down with the ship' and instead tries to actually win the fight while he's still able? I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem with someone attempting to still win an engagement even after they've lost their largest asset against someone who still has their largest asset. Maybe I don't understand the frustration because I'm not a tanker, but the fact that the opposing tank has a person inside it who can still get out and shoot shouldn't be that surprising and it shouldn't be that upsetting when they keep fighting after they've lost their tank, either. You said it yourself...YOU ARE NOT A TANKER. Bye bye. So is this what you do? You revive month dead topics to make a snarky, childish comment at someone while not even contributing to the topic you brought back from the dead? For the record, my opinion still hasn't changed. Someone getting out of a tank at some point during the engagement is just something you may have to deal with as another tanker or an AV and it's silly to get upset by it. You have the exact same opportunity to escape your vehicle last second. And if you know they got out you should assume they're ready to counter with AV and should either escape yourself to make it a man on man engagement or hope you can kill them before they kill you. Giving an enter/exit timer and making it more difficult to bail and counter would still be ideal. I play AV a decent amount. I know that if I shoot at a tank or dropship that there are people in those vehicles. I know if they get out and shoot at me I have to deal both with them and the vehicle they escaped, assuming it had a passenger to keep guns aimed at me. At least with another tank or dropship you've got the armor and shields to hold out in a fight. Most tank weapons will one-shot most infantry. Yes. I am the spark that revives a post that I think has some good ideas for vehicles... while telling the people that dont know about the subject to stay out of it. o7 And here you go again. The topic died down for a couple of days, and again you have literally nothing to contribute except your necromantic powers. At the very least say what you agree or disagree with, or offer a suggestion of your own if you think there's a problem. And it's silly to tell me to stay out of a topic discussing vehicles when I work as AV a decent chunk of time and have to deal with vehicles very frequently, even when not AV. Hell, since I'm the exposed tank fighter that can be killed in one or two good hits my opinion on the situation should be just as valid as a tanker's, who has not only a tank with a much higher eHP and rep rate than a single person, but has extra guns other people could be manning. So one tank can essentially be three entire people I, by myself, have to deal with. And even if I destroy the tank, it's still entirely possible for all three of those people to jump out, and suddenly I have to deal with not one entity with three guns, but three separate entities with three different types of guns, move speeds, and eHPs. And here I am, still without a tank to protect me. My opinion on the subject doesn't even differ that much from anyone else's in this thread. 'It sucks if people jump out of tanks, but it's something that you have to deal with right now. It would be better if there were an exit delay.' Literally everyone in this thread agrees with that statement, and that has been my stance from the get-go. It sucks when people jump out. We all know this. It's just a fact of life right now. We all know this. There should probably be an escape delay. We. All Know. This. Do you even read?
Alaika Arbosa Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.07.11 15:41:00 - [67] - Quote True Adamance wrote: The Attorney General wrote: They hop out mid fight to throw lai dais along with their passengers. They roll with AV on their suit as well for maximum ball licking. This game is bad, sure. But the players are why its dead. This is primarily why I suggest having some sort of embarking or disembarking modifier for vehicles. This is a huge issue with Tank Combat in this game right now. A Tanker will effectively win the fight or their opponent make a mistake, rather than the winning pilot being rewarded or the losing tanker being punished, they pathetically are rewarded instead for losing. What is the purpose of fighting in Tanks anyway if you simply hop out when you lose to use high Alpha AV to trivialise the fight. Would it be fair if every time I would normally lose a dropsuit I transform instantly into an HAV? You've been banging that drum for years now too right? Imagine the difference had they took the advice we were freely giving. I won't dodge another silver bullet Just to save a little face
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1	Posted - 2015.07.11 16:12:00 - [68] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I generally think the majority of you are missing the point of this post. The issue here is that in a tank engagement we have a situation where one party beats his opponent yet that opponent can instantly escape death, then apply an insane amount of anti-vehicle fire and essentially punish the other player for winning the fight. E.G- I am shooting at Aero for some reason. I am winning. He instantly changes location appearing with more armour and shield and starts apply damage from homing grenades and possibly a homing rocket launcher or or rapid fire machinegun. Yes, just like when infantry AV is killing a tank and the pilot jumps out with a proto HMG and kill you, and if you manage to survive then they just jump back into their tank which was repping the whole time. I don't know why a tanker thinks this is unfair to do to another tanker but fine to do with infantry AV. Because, that's why.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 1	Posted - 2015.07.11 17:54:00 - [69] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: If we had pilot suits which would ideally be a scout suit with only a sidearm and tanks could only accept drivers in pilot suits, this wouldn't be an issue. But alas... Maybe if that powercore concept ever gets off the ground, supposed to free up a lot of assets. This would be the most practical solution. Though the bonus's would have to be well thought out, its not like tanks are hurting for survivability as it is. Maybe make them more like T3 ships in EVE where you would have a limited number of options in pilot suit mods that determine the bonus's. So say a ADS pilot could set up more of a logi suit so they could set uplinks but a tanker could set up more of a electronic warfare suit which gives better scans. Give people options while not overly boosting vehicles in any direct manner like base HP or resistances. Acquisition is terrible, matchmaking is terrible, your game is still riddled with bugs, you should feel bad.


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