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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5410
   |
Posted - 2015.03.15 07:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
So in Delta, missiles were problematic. They were built around a concept that they had massive burst damage but awful reload which propagated a playstyle that relied heavily on killing the enemy in a single salvo, or dying on the reload. Not only was this really ****** for the pilot who just failed to finish off the last couple hundred HP and gets owned on the reload, but it was also very frustrating to armor tankers that would get taken from full HP to death in a matter of seconds with little time to react.
Rattati responded to this by basically decreasing the burst DPS by lowering the fire rate, giving vehicles more time to react, which inadvertently make the "die on the reload" far more prevalent. The large missile went from overpowered to underpowered, which is understandable given the binary performance that the turret has.
I felt we need to buff the Large Missile to somewhere between Delta and Echo, but also take a look at the core fundamentals of how missiles work. Here are the general calcs, and while this is just a first pass, provide constructive feedback but don't crawl up my ass if you don't like the numbers. It's a work in progress, so lets have a constructive conversation...I'm very reasonable if people are not asshats about it.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H0Jb2GUobDx28eETJ-7SSD0z4f9VqfUKvFW1Lo_5eEQ/edit?usp=sharing
General Notes:
Reduced Damage Per Magazine to remove "Insta-gank" mechanic
Reverted Fire Rate to Delta levels
Moved Burst DPS to levels between Delta and Echo
Drastically reduced reload time (50% of Echo, 60% of Delta)
Sustained DPS between Blaster and Railgun
Burst DPS ~x2 that of a Blaster/Railgun
High Burst DPS makes it ideal for an ambush weapon to catch enemy vehicles with their hardeners down. The first volley will not kill the target, but it will do considerable damage quickly and a quick reload allows them to recover quickly. Sustained damage is being considerably buffed from Echo to rest between that of a Blaster and a Railgun.
Missiles will be able to contend with other turrets even in a direct fight (no ambush volley) due to similar sustained DPS. Also note that as stated, Sustained DPS for Blasters and Railguns only take into account heat buildup. After a handful of heat cycles the turret will have to reload, reducing sustained damage considerably. Missiles will not suffer from this issue as reload is the primary limiting factor in sustained DPS, not heat like Blasters/Rail.
Also I'm aware that the Railguns are underpeforming currently. I agree that some changes need to be made to them, but for the sake of the current conversation I assumed no change.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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The Final Fantasy
DETHDEALERS
RISE of LEGION
23
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Posted - 2015.03.15 08:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
idk why ppl are against missiles being the shotgun out of the 3 av turret i mean if we can have shotty weapons why not shotty av? |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5410
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 08:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Final Fantasy wrote:idk why ppl are against missiles being the shotgun out of the 3 av turret i mean if we can have shotty weapons why not shotty av?
A weapon can be high alpha damage without being instagank. This proposal seeks to provide a more moderate and reasonable model, particularly because the previous model was excessively binary and the current model is admittedly still not working properly and under performing.
Also a shotgun typically doesn't have the relative range of a large missile turret.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
The Final Fantasy
DETHDEALERS
RISE of LEGION
24
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Posted - 2015.03.15 09:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
reason why i consider it to be a shotty av is because you kinda need to be in close to med range and beside using all your your missile one 1 go is a double edge sword if the other tank reacts fast enough and activates hardners your there running away shooting 2 per panic reload |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5410
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 09:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Final Fantasy wrote:reason why i consider it to be a shotty av is because you kinda need to be in close to med range and beside using all your your missile one 1 go is a double edge sword if the other tank reacts fast enough and activates hardners your there running away shooting 2 per panic reload
And while that's true, no one likes to die instantly without any time to react. As I've stated the old system basically was "Instantly kill the enemy, or die during the reload" which isn't very enjoyable for the losing side of that engagement. This model allows you to take a good chunk of HP out of the enemy before they can get their hardener up, but still allows you remain in a position capable of winning in case the initial ambush fails. The old system did not allow this second condition.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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The Final Fantasy
DETHDEALERS
RISE of LEGION
24
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Posted - 2015.03.15 09:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Even tho i do favor your idea idk it just seems like turning missiles into a harder hitting blaster imo but thats just me.
Tbh as sad as it is i just realize something here, tanks are use to kill other tanks in the form of av , all other tanks turrets are av cept for small blasters so there really is no point in a tank vs infantry anymore is there? i mean a tank can get lucky killing a bit of ppl here and there but by the end of the match a proto suit is gonna get more kills than a tank vs infantry...i think i just made myself sad  |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5415
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 10:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Final Fantasy wrote:Even tho i do favor your idea idk it just seems like turning missiles into a harder hitting blaster imo but thats just me. Tbh as sad as it is i just realize something here, tanks are use to kill other tanks in the form of av , all other tanks turrets are av cept for small blasters so there really is no point in a tank vs infantry anymore is there? i mean a tank can get lucky killing a bit of ppl here and there but by the end of the match a proto suit is gonna get more kills than a tank vs infantry...i think i just made myself sad
Well it's actually going to perform quite a bit differently than a Blaster. For example it's burst DPS is about twice as high, meaning it's going to be extremely proficient and popping lightly tanked vehicles as well as doing a lot of damage very quickly in an ambush setting as we talked about prior. A blaster on the other hand delivers its DPS significantly slower, meaning an enemy will be able to activate a hardener/get behind cover more readily. Additionally it's sustained DPS is very consistent, whereas a Blaster needs to manage essentially two heat cycles and then a reload cycle giving it a less consistent sustained DPS profile.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1039
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 12:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
I always thought Missiles were more enjoyable before 1.7 (4-shot volleys), and this proposal somewhat moves them back in that direction. Shorter bursts of damage with shorter time between bursts makes sustained DPS more important rather than burst DPS. I think the past year has shown that 3 second HAV fights aren't fun. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
5338
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 12:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Confirming I still want a missile tank that is basically a super front loaded swarm launcher on steroids.
Usually banned for being too awesome.
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
317
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 14:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
On the reload time, when would you have the missiles "start" reloading? 2 seconds? 3? That may be something you want to add to the spreadsheet.
Also, your total ammo count from Delta on the missiles is wrong. It used to be 150 ish, and honestly if it's going to have such lower damage then it's going to need like 250-300 missiles so we don't have to go back to the redline every 2 minutes.
What do you think about keeping the damage the same, but knocking down magazine size to something like 10 or 8? Having 320 damage direct would make hitting infantry something they don't even have to worry about. Right now, or, at least before the RoF nerf, if some forge gunner is sniping me and I figure out where he is, I could kill him most of the time by hitting him 3-4 before he would start doing jumping jacks. Taking away the actual damage per missile would hurt anti infantry work that doesn't even work unless your really good with missiles. It also hurts the ability to fight Dropships, because usually your not going to get all 12 shots on target, and with these numbers hitting them with all 12 shots wouldn't even kill one before they just AB away.
Not hating on your numbers, just giving constructive criticism.
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
2972
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Posted - 2015.03.15 15:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Just to point this out, but rails aren't underperforming, rather people is trying to use them how they were a week ago, instead of hanging back.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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DUST Fiend
16074
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Posted - 2015.03.15 17:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Missiles seem to be popping my armor tanks plenty quick enough, even with a hardener up.
Large turrets are really buggy right now too though, but you know that.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1861
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 18:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
The Final Fantasy wrote:idk why ppl are against missiles being the shotgun out of the 3 av turret i mean if we can have shotty weapons why not shotty av?
Long ago, devs opendly talked about L MSLs being shotguns of vehicles.
However, that was not the case as they had in addition of that shotgun use very good medium-long range capabilities provided the operator used controller fire.
That's why I personally flagged L MSLs being somewhat too powerful (honestly, jack of all trades except extreme sniping distance.)
Looking at both sides of the coin.
Even Aurum one.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5422
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 18:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
DarthJT5 wrote:On the reload time, when would you have the missiles "start" reloading? 2 seconds? 3? That may be something you want to add to the spreadsheet.
Also, your total ammo count from Delta on the missiles is wrong. It used to be 150 ish, and honestly if it's going to have such lower damage then it's going to need like 250-300 missiles so we don't have to go back to the redline every 2 minutes.
What do you think about keeping the damage the same, but knocking down magazine size to something like 10 or 8? Having 320 damage direct would make hitting infantry something they don't even have to worry about. Right now, or, at least before the RoF nerf, if some forge gunner is sniping me and I figure out where he is, I could kill him most of the time by hitting him 3-4 before he would start doing jumping jacks. Taking away the actual damage per missile would hurt anti infantry work that doesn't even work unless your really good with missiles. It also hurts the ability to fight Dropships, because usually your not going to get all 12 shots on target, and with these numbers hitting them with all 12 shots wouldn't even kill one before they just AB away.
Not hating on your numbers, just giving constructive criticism.
Fixed the max ammo for Delta, thanks for pointing that out. I may have to bump that back up to Delta levels since the missile damage has decreased, but bear in mind that max ammo is not used in any calculations here.
As for the damage per missile and magazine size....it honestly doesn't really matter to me. The key things with that are "How much damage is in the magazine" and "How quickly does it apply that damage". You can play around with the damage per shot and magazine size the manipulate the first, and then the fire rate to manipulate the second, and still get similar results overall.
I actually did consider the Anti-Infantry applications, and you are very correct that this would make it harder to kill infantry. However I also think that at the lower damage levels, you can afford to ramp up the splash radius a bit and make the weapon a bit less dependent on direct hits, placing the Missiles between Blasters and Rails in terms of effectiveness against infantry.
But like I said before either model would work with the right number tweaking, I'll do a version under your suggestion so we can see how it looks.
As for the granular reload speed I haven't put a ton of thought into it. From my understanding the Delta model used a 4 second base and then 0.5 seconds per missile for a total of 10 seconds. Obviously with a 6 second reload we can't use 0.5 seconds. Perhaps 3 second base with a 0.25 per missile reload speed?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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DUST Fiend
16081
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 18:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Why not make large missiles fire in 4 round salvos? That way it applies a lot of damage rapidly within the salvo, then waits a second or two, then shoots again. This gives some warning to people, still lets missiles deal crazy damage, yet may actually make them a little harder to use because you have to be sure when you pull that trigger.
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
321
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Posted - 2015.03.15 18:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:On the reload time, when would you have the missiles "start" reloading? 2 seconds? 3? That may be something you want to add to the spreadsheet.
Also, your total ammo count from Delta on the missiles is wrong. It used to be 150 ish, and honestly if it's going to have such lower damage then it's going to need like 250-300 missiles so we don't have to go back to the redline every 2 minutes.
What do you think about keeping the damage the same, but knocking down magazine size to something like 10 or 8? Having 320 damage direct would make hitting infantry something they don't even have to worry about. Right now, or, at least before the RoF nerf, if some forge gunner is sniping me and I figure out where he is, I could kill him most of the time by hitting him 3-4 before he would start doing jumping jacks. Taking away the actual damage per missile would hurt anti infantry work that doesn't even work unless your really good with missiles. It also hurts the ability to fight Dropships, because usually your not going to get all 12 shots on target, and with these numbers hitting them with all 12 shots wouldn't even kill one before they just AB away.
Not hating on your numbers, just giving constructive criticism. Fixed the max ammo for Delta, thanks for pointing that out. I may have to bump that back up to Delta levels since the missile damage has decreased, but bear in mind that max ammo is not used in any calculations here. As for the damage per missile and magazine size....it honestly doesn't really matter to me. The key things with that are "How much damage is in the magazine" and "How quickly does it apply that damage". You can play around with the damage per shot and magazine size the manipulate the first, and then the fire rate to manipulate the second, and still get similar results overall. I actually did consider the Anti-Infantry applications, and you are very correct that this would make it harder to kill infantry. However I also think that at the lower damage levels, you can afford to ramp up the splash radius a bit and make the weapon a bit less dependent on direct hits, placing the Missiles between Blasters and Rails in terms of effectiveness against infantry. But like I said before either model would work with the right number tweaking, I'll do a version under your suggestion so we can see how it looks. As for the granular reload speed I haven't put a ton of thought into it. From my understanding the Delta model used a 4 second base and then 0.5 seconds per missile for a total of 10 seconds. Obviously with a 6 second reload we can't use 0.5 seconds. Perhaps 3 second base with a 0.25 per missile reload speed?
That sounds like a good reload speed to me.
The only other thing I would change is having RoF at least at 300. This 200 right now does not feel natural to my trigger finger (I've always semi-auto fired it due to the full auto not always working, and because it's much more accurate that way). 400 RPM feels right, but 300 is acceptable since we're trying to keep its DPS at a reasonable level. What do you think it's max DPS should be so we're on the same page?
EDIT: didn't see your edit before I posted lol, will see what else you've added
Double EDIT: yes, magazine needs to be even. If it's lower than 8 it's gotta be 6. As long as it had some increased damage to keep it the same that's fine
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5422
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 18:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
DarthJT5 wrote:
That sounds like a good reload speed to me.
The only other thing I would change is having RoF at least at 300. This 200 right now does not feel natural to my trigger finger (I've always semi-auto fired it due to the full auto not always working, and because it's much more accurate that way). 400 RPM feels right, but 300 is acceptable since we're trying to keep its DPS at a reasonable level. What do you think it's max DPS should be so we're on the same page?
I think you may be misreading the sheet? I have 3 proposals on there now (my original, and two variants of what you talked about) and they all feature 300-400 RPM
As for DPS, I don't want to get too much higher than 2000 since thats already double what a Blaster and Rail can do. That's the nature of the burst damage. The more important factor here though is damage per salvo and sustained DPS, which are manipulated by magazine and damage per shot, as well as reload speed.
Sustained DPS needs to be inferior to a Blaster but better than a rail, which is about where it's sitting right now. As for total damage per magazine that's largely a function of eHP on other vehicles. Tentatively I've been keeping it below 4000 intentionally (2/3 of where it was in Delta) but that's of course up for discussion. You do at least understand my concern in wanting to keep it lower.
DUST Fiend wrote:Why not make large missiles fire in 4 round salvos? That way it applies a lot of damage rapidly within the salvo, then waits a second or two, then shoots again. This gives some warning to people, still lets missiles deal crazy damage, yet may actually make them a little harder to use because you have to be sure when you pull that trigger.
I would be fine with that as well, though mind you that sheds more of the burst damage in exchange for more reliable sustained damage. I can spin up some numbers for that as well.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
321
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 19:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:
That sounds like a good reload speed to me.
The only other thing I would change is having RoF at least at 300. This 200 right now does not feel natural to my trigger finger (I've always semi-auto fired it due to the full auto not always working, and because it's much more accurate that way). 400 RPM feels right, but 300 is acceptable since we're trying to keep its DPS at a reasonable level. What do you think it's max DPS should be so we're on the same page?
I think you may be misreading the sheet? I have 3 proposals on there now (my original, and two variants of what you talked about) and they all feature 300-400 RPM As for DPS, I don't want to get too much higher than 2000 since thats already double what a Blaster and Rail can do. That's the nature of the burst damage. The more important factor here though is damage per salvo and sustained DPS, which are manipulated by magazine and damage per shot, as well as reload speed. Sustained DPS needs to be inferior to a Blaster but better than a rail, which is about where it's sitting right now. As for total damage per magazine that's largely a function of eHP on other vehicles. Tentatively I've been keeping it below 4000 intentionally (2/3 of where it was in Delta) but that's of course up for discussion. You do at least understand my concern in wanting to keep it lower. DUST Fiend wrote:Why not make large missiles fire in 4 round salvos? That way it applies a lot of damage rapidly within the salvo, then waits a second or two, then shoots again. This gives some warning to people, still lets missiles deal crazy damage, yet may actually make them a little harder to use because you have to be sure when you pull that trigger. I would be fine with that as well, though mind you that sheds more of the burst damage in exchange for more reliable sustained damage. I can spin up some numbers for that as well.
The spreadsheet hadn't updated when I had posted my last response, numbers look good
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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DUST Fiend
16081
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 19:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:
That sounds like a good reload speed to me.
The only other thing I would change is having RoF at least at 300. This 200 right now does not feel natural to my trigger finger (I've always semi-auto fired it due to the full auto not always working, and because it's much more accurate that way). 400 RPM feels right, but 300 is acceptable since we're trying to keep its DPS at a reasonable level. What do you think it's max DPS should be so we're on the same page?
I think you may be misreading the sheet? I have 3 proposals on there now (my original, and two variants of what you talked about) and they all feature 300-400 RPM As for DPS, I don't want to get too much higher than 2000 since thats already double what a Blaster and Rail can do. That's the nature of the burst damage. The more important factor here though is damage per salvo and sustained DPS, which are manipulated by magazine and damage per shot, as well as reload speed. Sustained DPS needs to be inferior to a Blaster but better than a rail, which is about where it's sitting right now. As for total damage per magazine that's largely a function of eHP on other vehicles. Tentatively I've been keeping it below 4000 intentionally (2/3 of where it was in Delta) but that's of course up for discussion. You do at least understand my concern in wanting to keep it lower. DUST Fiend wrote:Why not make large missiles fire in 4 round salvos? That way it applies a lot of damage rapidly within the salvo, then waits a second or two, then shoots again. This gives some warning to people, still lets missiles deal crazy damage, yet may actually make them a little harder to use because you have to be sure when you pull that trigger. I would be fine with that as well, though mind you that sheds more of the burst damage in exchange for more reliable sustained damage. I can spin up some numbers for that as well.
I'm not a big fan of high alpha weapons, especially in vehicle combat. It really makes for boring, one sided engagements, regardless of who wins.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5422
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Posted - 2015.03.15 19:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Updated with some rough numbers showing Fiend's concept as well. Unfortunately because missiles are not very granular in their damage per shot its hard to get everything to line up evenly with each other. Further feedback would be appreciated.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
321
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Posted - 2015.03.15 19:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Updated with some rough numbers showing Fiend's concept as well. Unfortunately because missiles are not very granular in their damage per shot its hard to get everything to line up evenly with each other. Further feedback would be appreciated.
Should missile velocity be looked at as well? Idk if that's even applicable but it would make mid to long range engagements easier.
Also, all these different versions we have would make GREAT variety for missile turrets
We really just need Rattati to get on this thread so we can then get these ideas into reality
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5422
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Posted - 2015.03.15 19:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
DarthJT5 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Updated with some rough numbers showing Fiend's concept as well. Unfortunately because missiles are not very granular in their damage per shot its hard to get everything to line up evenly with each other. Further feedback would be appreciated. Should missile velocity be looked at as well? Idk if that's even applicable but it would make mid to long range engagements easier. Also, all these different versions we have would make GREAT variety for missile turrets We really just need Rattati to get on this thread so we can then get these ideas into reality
Large Missiles do feel a tad slow. I'd actually love if we could get a light tracking effect on vehicles/installations but that's probably outside the possible programming realm. A tad more velocity might go a long way in making them more effective at longer ranges. One thing I would warn about for the Darth variants however is because you have less missiles with more damage each, every single miss is going to hurt a lot more than the Pokey variant which is more forgiving per missile. That being said you also have to land fewer shots with the Darth (or Fiend) variants to get the same amount of damage, so it kinda goes both ways. Just food for the thought.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
321
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Posted - 2015.03.15 19:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Updated with some rough numbers showing Fiend's concept as well. Unfortunately because missiles are not very granular in their damage per shot its hard to get everything to line up evenly with each other. Further feedback would be appreciated. Should missile velocity be looked at as well? Idk if that's even applicable but it would make mid to long range engagements easier. Also, all these different versions we have would make GREAT variety for missile turrets We really just need Rattati to get on this thread so we can then get these ideas into reality Large Missiles do feel a tad slow. I'd actually love if we could get a light tracking effect on vehicles/installations but that's probably outside the possible programming realm. A tad more velocity might go a long way in making them more effective at longer ranges. One thing I would warn about for the Darth variants however is because you have less missiles with more damage each, every single miss is going to hurt a lot more than the Pokey variant which is more forgiving per missile. That being said you also have to land fewer shots with the Darth (or Fiend) variants to get the same amount of damage, so it kinda goes both ways. Just food for the thought.
Back before 1.7, we had accelerated missile turret variants, and they were the only ones I used. That along with the Falchion bonus to missile range made me the king of missile sniping.
On the ease of use thing, I want missiles to be the hardest turret to use in the game, but reward players who can land their shots effectively. In other words, you should have to practice with it to git gud. That's why I want small magazine, high damage.
And yeah, the tracking thing would be awesome, but it's not happening in this game, soooo....
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5422
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 19:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
DarthJT5 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Updated with some rough numbers showing Fiend's concept as well. Unfortunately because missiles are not very granular in their damage per shot its hard to get everything to line up evenly with each other. Further feedback would be appreciated. Should missile velocity be looked at as well? Idk if that's even applicable but it would make mid to long range engagements easier. Also, all these different versions we have would make GREAT variety for missile turrets We really just need Rattati to get on this thread so we can then get these ideas into reality Large Missiles do feel a tad slow. I'd actually love if we could get a light tracking effect on vehicles/installations but that's probably outside the possible programming realm. A tad more velocity might go a long way in making them more effective at longer ranges. One thing I would warn about for the Darth variants however is because you have less missiles with more damage each, every single miss is going to hurt a lot more than the Pokey variant which is more forgiving per missile. That being said you also have to land fewer shots with the Darth (or Fiend) variants to get the same amount of damage, so it kinda goes both ways. Just food for the thought. Back before 1.7, we had accelerated missile turret variants, and they were the only ones I used. That along with the Falchion bonus to missile range made me the king of missile sniping. On the ease of use thing, I want missiles to be the hardest turret to use in the game, but reward players who can land their shots effectively. In other words, you should have to practice with it to git gud. That's why I want small magazine, high damage. And yeah, the tracking thing would be awesome, but it's not happening in this game, soooo....
Yeah measuring what the actual velocity is ....more work than I want to do. The Accelerated Missiles were legit back in the day though.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
321
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Posted - 2015.03.15 19:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
I don't think there's anything else to really talk about. TL:DR on my thoughts
Damage should be AT LEAST 450, I would prefer 500 (even numbers are cool)
RoF should be at least 300
Magazine size would be 6 for me, or 8 with a longer reload to keep sustained DPS the same
Reload time goes by your suggestion.
Velocity goes up
Blast radius kept the same, splash damage increased somewhat to account for lower ROF and magazine size
Variants come back, I think Pokey version would be a great variant for splash damage based missiles, but I can't remember what that variant was called. Fiends version I would really want, but with a few tweaks.
This would be the accelerated variant of old, so increased velocity
It would have a 24 missile magazine
Burst interval the same as what it was in 1.6
Damage lowered to 300-400 ish, little to no splash.
Reload speed is what we have currently, really friggin slow
Range increased to 275 M
EDIT: just remembered what your variant would be called Pokey, it would be the Fragmented variant
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5422
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 19:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
I tweaked the Darth v1 missiles a bit more and I think how they're looking for a standard missiles variant.
Damage per magazine is slightly lower than the Pokey variants, burst DPS is slightly higher, and the sustained DPS fits neatly between blaster and railguns. 8 shots in the magazine, 6 second total reload time, 450 damage per missile, 3600 damage per salvo.
Also something to note, a Blaster and Rail can increase their damage before overheat by a decent margin using a heat sink. However a missile is only bound by reload speed which we obviously have a skill for, meaning that it's going to be more consistent in it's damage.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
321
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 20:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I tweaked the Darth v1 missiles a bit more and I like how they're looking for a standard missiles variant.
Damage per magazine is slightly lower than the Pokey variants, burst DPS is slightly higher, and the sustained DPS fits neatly between blaster and railguns. 8 shots in the magazine, 6 second total reload time, 450 damage per missile, 3600 damage per salvo.
Also something to note, a Blaster and Rail can increase their damage before overheat by a decent margin using a heat sink. However a missile is only bound by reload speed which we obviously have a skill for, meaning that it's going to be more consistent in it's damage.
Can you think of any module that would be as beneficial to the missile as a heat sink is to the blaster/rail? Besides a damage mod of course, and the module would have to be a low slot because... Ya know.... There's nothing else useful there besides regs and fitting mods.
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
|
DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
321
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 20:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
Oh, we both forgot about the fitting costs of Missiles being higher in both CPU and PG over the rail. That needs to be fixed
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5423
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 21:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
DarthJT5 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I tweaked the Darth v1 missiles a bit more and I like how they're looking for a standard missiles variant.
Damage per magazine is slightly lower than the Pokey variants, burst DPS is slightly higher, and the sustained DPS fits neatly between blaster and railguns. 8 shots in the magazine, 6 second total reload time, 450 damage per missile, 3600 damage per salvo.
Also something to note, a Blaster and Rail can increase their damage before overheat by a decent margin using a heat sink. However a missile is only bound by reload speed which we obviously have a skill for, meaning that it's going to be more consistent in it's damage. Can you think of any module that would be as beneficial to the missile as a heat sink is to the blaster/rail? Besides a damage mod of course, and the module would have to be a low slot because... Ya know.... There's nothing else useful there besides regs and fitting mods.
Reload Modules would boost sustained DPS.
DarthJT5 wrote:Oh, we both forgot about the fitting costs of Missiles being higher in both CPU and PG over the rail. That needs to be fixed
Does anyone remember what the balance used to be? I seem to remember For PG Cost it was Blaster>Railgun>Missiles and for CPU it was Missiles>Railgun>Blaster. Does that sound right? It's been a while.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
321
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 21:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I tweaked the Darth v1 missiles a bit more and I like how they're looking for a standard missiles variant.
Damage per magazine is slightly lower than the Pokey variants, burst DPS is slightly higher, and the sustained DPS fits neatly between blaster and railguns. 8 shots in the magazine, 6 second total reload time, 450 damage per missile, 3600 damage per salvo.
Also something to note, a Blaster and Rail can increase their damage before overheat by a decent margin using a heat sink. However a missile is only bound by reload speed which we obviously have a skill for, meaning that it's going to be more consistent in it's damage. Can you think of any module that would be as beneficial to the missile as a heat sink is to the blaster/rail? Besides a damage mod of course, and the module would have to be a low slot because... Ya know.... There's nothing else useful there besides regs and fitting mods. Reload Modules would boost sustained DPS. DarthJT5 wrote:Oh, we both forgot about the fitting costs of Missiles being higher in both CPU and PG over the rail. That needs to be fixed Does anyone remember what the balance used to be? I seem to remember For PG Cost it was Blaster>Railgun>Missiles and for CPU it was Missiles>Railgun>Blaster. Does that sound right? It's been a while.
Yes, it's right
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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