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AM assault completely removes ASCR's drawback

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12128	Posted - 2015.03.12 13:08:00 - [1] - Quote Warlords Hotfix Echo has made the assault scrambler rifle extremely powerful, and it now outdoes the assault rile in both DPS and range by a lot. Like the scrambler rifle, the great strength comes with a great weakness to counter it, and that is the heat buildup/overheat mechanism. For the regular scrambler rifle, the heat buildup weakness is diminished by the Amarr assault's bonus. For the assault scrambler rifle however, the heat buildup drawback is completely erased; the assault scrambler rifle in the hands of a lv5 Amarr assault just doesn't overheat, even when emptying an entire magazine. This means assault scrambler rifle low risk high reward. Since the assault scrambler rifle is so powerful now, the Amarr assault bonus should not completely erase its weakness, but rather merely diminish it. Because of this, I propose the assault scrambler rifle should keep its damage buff (high reward), but the heat cost per shot should be increased such that even with Amarr assault lv 5, it should still overheat at around 55 rounds (high risk). Support 'Keshava' for the new Gallente HAV name in honor of Cat Merc's cat which recently passed away.
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 15473	Posted - 2015.03.12 13:39:00 - [2] - Quote From the Hotfix Echo thread: Cat Merc wrote: New AScR damage before overheat: 2352.9 New AScR damage before overheat w/Amarr Assault: 3137.2 Duvolle damage before reload: 2380 AScR DPS: 494.11 Duvolle DPS: 453.33 AScR vs Shields: 592.93 Duvolle vs Shields: 498.663 AScR vs Armor: 395.228 Duvolle vs Armor: 408 AScR effective range: 88m Duvolle effective range: 70m AScR reload time: 2.5s Duvolle reload time: 3s Duvolle mag size: 70 AScR mag size: 72 So... Still think the new AScR will be fine? Because the way I see it, it does more damage before overheat than a Duvolle does in an entire clip, its clip is larger, it reloads faster, it has more range, and to top it all off, it barely drops against armor compared to the Duvolle. That's right, it has nearly the same DPS vs armor as the Duvolle, AND it does 100 more DPS than the Duvolle against shields. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 5868	Posted - 2015.03.12 13:54:00 - [3] - Quote Its a damn shame I won't be able to use it :( (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 18440	Posted - 2015.03.12 13:56:00 - [4] - Quote I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Vyuru Algintal Core Gallente Federation 90	Posted - 2015.03.12 14:08:00 - [5] - Quote I second Rattati's comment, but furthermore... Quote: Because of this, I propose the assault scrambler rifle should keep its damage buff (high reward), but the heat cost per shot should be increased such that even with Amarr assault lv 5, it should still overheat at around 55 rounds (high risk). Doing something like that would make the scrambler rifle completely pointless and obsolete on anything BUT a lvl 5 amarr suit. Therefore I am highly against it. You might as well be asking for the current assault rifle to have the kick of the rail rifle, making it unusable on anything but a gallente assault. IMO it's too soon to say if it warrants a change or not, but if a change needs to be made, make it a smart one.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1521	Posted - 2015.03.12 14:16:00 - [6] - Quote Quit nerfing **, actually fix Caldari shields..... Give us ** to counter it..
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12129	Posted - 2015.03.12 14:37:00 - [7] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Quit nerfing **, actually fix Caldari shields..... Give us to counter it.. That's a very misinformed opinion. You really have no problem with the ASCR having more DPS, more range, bigger magazine, and less reload time than the AR? What is even the point of the AR then if another assault variant beats it at literally everything. The amount of DPS its doing makes shield and armor irrelevent, so I have no idea why you even bring up some vague undefined fix to deal with vague undefined supposed Caldari shield problem. Vyuru wrote: I second Rattati's comment, but furthermore... Quote: Because of this, I propose the assault scrambler rifle should keep its damage buff (high reward), but the heat cost per shot should be increased such that even with Amarr assault lv 5, it should still overheat at around 55 rounds (high risk). Doing something like that would make the scrambler rifle completely pointless and obsolete on anything BUT a lvl 5 amarr suit. Therefore I am highly against it. You might as well be asking for the current assault rifle to have the kick of the rail rifle, making it unusable on anything but a gallente assault. IMO it's too soon to say if it warrants a change or not, but if a change needs to be made, make it a smart one. Wrong. The regular scrambler rifle overheats with Amarr assault at lv5, and it oveheats even more without it. Despite this, it is still a decent weapon even without Amarr assault. Likewise, if you increase heat buildup to make the ASCR overheat with Amarr assault, and thus make it overheat even more without Amarr assaut, it can still be useful without it (like how the regular SCR is useful even without Amarr assault). The fix I am proposing IS smart; its about taking advantage of an already existing balance mechanism (heat) using precedent from the regular SCR, instead of just nerfing DPS. I just played a bunch of Skirmish and Ambush battles, and half the players were using Amarr assault and ASCR. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+**
Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 414	Posted - 2015.03.12 14:45:00 - [8] - Quote I think Assault Scrambler Rifles will be the new FOTM. It was rare to see it even on Amarr Assaults last week. Played a few matches and it seems to be the more popular scrambler rifle. On a different note why doesnt the Amarr side arm the scrambler pistol also have a heat penalty? RATATATAGäó CCP WhoeverGäó Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
VALCORE72 Dead Man's Game RUST415 232	Posted - 2015.03.12 14:55:00 - [9] - Quote ? what ? ... scrambler drops heavys in 5 to 7 shots . shield weapon !!!!! go figur lol . ascrm is and will be fotm
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5283	Posted - 2015.03.12 14:58:00 - [10] - Quote Assault scrambler has a fixed dispersion rate that cannot be minimized (i.e. turned into a bullet hose) like the other rifles can by "bursting" proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVDPmIhkx8 Note how I can continue to fire the weapon for as long as I want and there is no barrel climb, and the dispersion does not increase or decrease based on how long I hold the trigger down. This means that it is very hard to use at long ranges as only 50% of your shots actually hit the target because of dispersion. Against a large amount of armor this weapon cannot hit accurately enough to deal a significant amount of DPS from range. ____________________________________________________________________________________ CQC is where this gun shines, but you wouldn't ever use ADS at such short ranges. and hipfire is never 100% accurate. On paper it might look super deadly, but the buff makes it a viable weapon now instead of just a scout killer that is completely useless against heavies. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!

Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 653	Posted - 2015.03.12 14:59:00 - [11] - Quote It does seem very powerful. Don't forget the high fitting costs though. It is a major factor in comparing weapons.
Alena Ventrallis Intara Direct Action Caldari State 2650	Posted - 2015.03.12 15:05:00 - [12] - Quote I would suggest overheat at 36 rounds. This is about 1512 damage from a Carthum AScR before overheat. By comparison, a Viziam ScR overheats at about 15 shots, or 1072.5 damage. I believe 36 shots is plenty of damage before overheat compared to the base ScR. This is about half the magazine. Please Rattati, I love the ScR and AScR. Don't let my baby become the next FOTM. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 15475	Posted - 2015.03.12 15:10:00 - [13] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Assault scrambler has a fixed dispersion rate that cannot be minimized (i.e. turned into a bullet hose) like the other rifles can by "bursting" proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVDPmIhkx8 Note how I can continue to fire the weapon for as long as I want and there is no barrel climb, and the dispersion does not increase or decrease based on how long I hold the trigger down. This means that it is very hard to use at long ranges as only 50% of your shots actually hit the target because of dispersion. Against a large amount of armor this weapon cannot hit accurately enough to deal a significant amount of DPS from range. ____________________________________________________________________________________ CQC is where this gun shines, but you wouldn't ever use ADS at such short ranges. and hipfire is never 100% accurate. On paper it might look super deadly, but the buff makes it a viable weapon now instead of just a scout killer that used to be completely useless against heavies (even calsents) If you looked at it closely you would see that the ASCR is in fact deadly accurate. The recoil is purely visual, from my testing on a standing still target at 70m, all shots fired directly at the target will land. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 15475	Posted - 2015.03.12 15:11:00 - [14] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: It does seem very powerful. Don't forget the high fitting costs though. It is a major factor in comparing weapons. Uses 7 less CPU and 4 more PG than the AR. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Awesome Pantaloons Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 799	Posted - 2015.03.12 15:12:00 - [15] - Quote The one fatal flaw in any anti-ScR argument is that it is a highly specialized weapon. If I slap a viziam or a carthum on my min assault, I won't get anywhere near as many kills as I would in my ak0, and would probably die to overheat. On the other hand, if I put literally Amy other weapon on my min (aside from the equally specialized LR), I can slay all day. Every other rifle is highly versatile in fittings, but to be truly good with an amarr weapon you need a good amarr suit. That kind of specialization should be rewarded. You're all puppets, tangled in strings. I had strings, but now, I'm free. There are no strings on me.
Funky Pshyco 1.U.P 43	Posted - 2015.03.12 15:12:00 - [16] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Quit nerfing **, actually fix Caldari shields..... Give us to counter it.. Same think, SCR Just can be ** with 2 charges to calass
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 15475	Posted - 2015.03.12 15:15:00 - [17] - Quote Awesome Pantaloons wrote: The one fatal flaw in any anti-ScR argument is that it is a highly specialized weapon. If I slap a viziam or a carthum on my min assault, I won't get anywhere near as many kills as I would in my ak0, and would probably die to overheat. On the other hand, if I put literally Amy other weapon on my min (aside from the equally specialized LR), I can slay all day. Every other rifle is highly versatile in fittings, but to be truly good with an amarr weapon you need a good amarr suit. That kind of specialization should be rewarded. If you look at the stats I posted, you would see that the ASCR being "specialized" is BULLCRAP. SCR? Sure, I can see the reasoning. ASCR? It's a straight up better Assault Rifle, there is no arguing here. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Dengru Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 530	Posted - 2015.03.12 16:14:00 - [18] - Quote Combat rifle still better and arr still better and can be used on any suit (>^_^)><(^.^<)
Vyuru Algintal Core Gallente Federation 91	Posted - 2015.03.12 16:16:00 - [19] - Quote Quote: Wrong. The regular scrambler rifle overheats with Amarr assault at lv5, and it oveheats even more without it. Despite this, it is still a decent weapon even without Amarr assault. Likewise, if you increase heat buildup to make the ASCR overheat with Amarr assault, and thus make it overheat even more without Amarr assaut, it can still be useful without it (like how the regular SCR is useful even without Amarr assault). The fix I am proposing IS smart; its about taking advantage of an already existing balance mechanism (heat) using precedent from the regular SCR, instead of just nerfing DPS. I just played a bunch of Skirmish and Ambush battles, and half the players were using Amarr assault and ASCR. With lvl 2 scrambler rifle prof, and no prof in amarr suits, the assault scrambler overheats after shooting 57 rounds. The regular scrambler overheats at 16 rounds. Especially given the nature of the armor tanked meta, why in the world are people suggesting nerfing the assault scrambler to over heat at 55 rounds with lvl 5 amarr prof AND using a amarr suit? Let's put that into perspective. If you make that change, a non amarr suit can only shoot 43-44 rounds before overheating. That is not remotely fair. And the fact that you see alot of assault scramblers right now is most likely due to the new changes. Even if there is an imbalance, you need more time to conclude if there is in fact an imbalance. Furthermore, I question Cat Merc's math (no offense) Quote: AScR vs Shields: 592.93 Duvolle vs Shields: 498.663 AScR vs Armor: 395.228 Duvolle vs Armor: 408 The damage delta looks about right for shields, but makes no sense vs armor. Lasers are what, +20% shields -20% armor, right? Projectile weapons are +15% armor and -15% shields correct? Or is it +/- 10%? There should be a 30% to 35% delta in the armor damage category. A spread of roughly 2.5% makes no sense to me. My math will have to come later, but just a quick guesstimate (clip size * damage per bullet * modifier) clocks the proto assault scrambler at 2400 (rounded) and the breach proto assault rifle about 2200, burst proto rifle at 2500, and duvolle at about 2000. All damage vs armor per clip. Toss in equilizers such as the breach and duvolle doing 1.5x to almost 2x the damage per round than the assault scrambler, thereby needing fewer shots to do their damage, I need to look at this more, but I am not seeing a major problem. Am I missing something?
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 15480	Posted - 2015.03.12 16:36:00 - [20] - Quote Vyuru wrote: Quote: AScR vs Shields: 592.93 Duvolle vs Shields: 498.663 AScR vs Armor: 395.228 Duvolle vs Armor: 408 The damage delta looks about right for shields, but makes no sense vs armor. Lasers are what, +20% shields -20% armor, right? Projectile weapons are +15% armor and -15% shields correct? Or is it +/- 10%? There should be a 30% to 35% delta in the armor damage category. A spread of roughly 2.5% makes no sense to me. My math will have to come later, but just a quick guesstimate (clip size * damage per bullet * modifier) clocks the proto assault scrambler at 2400 (rounded) and the breach proto assault rifle about 2200, burst proto rifle at 2500, and duvolle at about 2000. All damage vs armor per clip. Toss in equilizers such as the breach and duvolle doing 1.5x to almost 2x the damage per round than the assault scrambler, thereby needing fewer shots to do their damage, I need to look at this more, but I am not seeing a major problem. Am I missing something? Yes, yes you are. See, you are correct that ASCR is -20% against armor and Duvolle is -10% against shields, but because the AScR's raw DPS is higher than the Duvolle, even despite the higher penalty, their armor damage is nearly identical. As for your guesstimates, I used clip size * damage per bullet, I ignored the modifier as there's no point, I already showed the armor and shields DPS. For the AScR I figured out for how long it can fire using stats I pulled from the SDE, and then multiplied that by the DPS to get the damage before overheat. Also, how the hell do you figure the Duvolle doing 1.5x to 2x the damage per round over the Assault Scrambler? Duvolle = 34 damage Assault Scrambler = 42 damage All stats pulled from here: http://www.stuff514.com/sde/type/353115. The stats have yet to be updated to Hotfix Echo, but I just used the numbers from the spreadsheet instead where applicable. I can assure you that my math is correct, you can check it yourself. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*

Squagga The State Protectorate 419	Posted - 2015.03.12 17:08:00 - [21] - Quote They were planning on taking this away fromt he Amarr, as their bonus. Makig the guns well.. the way you want them now. But King Checkmate made about seven threads, some of the other Kaimeras backed him up and made similar threads, for months, in support of them keeping their bonus. So if you want this to change or go back to the way it was supposed to go ... get to posting guys. It's the only way the devs will listen, maybe Reloading, the silent killer.
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 283	Posted - 2015.03.12 17:14:00 - [22] - Quote with max skills you can fire off a full clip from an assault scram without overheating by a ***** hairs width, by the time you reload its only cooled down to half heat. any advantage over the gall assault rifle is lost after one clip and thats with almost 3 mill sp expended, so saying the assault skill totally negates its drawbacks is a bit of a stretch Dust 514 hurts Go Fabulous or go home
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4143	Posted - 2015.03.12 18:43:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. Isn't it supposed to have problem with armor? Pimp my Barge
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 15482	Posted - 2015.03.12 18:43:00 - [24] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: with max skills you can fire off a full clip from an assault scram without overheating by a *** hairs width, by the time you reload its only cooled down to half heat. any advantage over the gall assault rifle is lost after one clip and thats with almost 3 mill sp expended, so saying the assault skill totally negates its drawbacks is a bit of a stretch Yeah, no, look at my numbers. There's no arguing with cold hard facts. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!**
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 283	Posted - 2015.03.12 18:48:00 - [25] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: with max skills you can fire off a full clip from an assault scram without overheating by a ***** hairs width, by the time you reload its only cooled down to half heat. any advantage over the gall assault rifle is lost after one clip and thats with almost 3 mill sp expended, so saying the assault skill totally negates its drawbacks is a bit of a stretch Yeah, no, look at my numbers. There's no arguing with cold hard facts. how long do you have to wait before you can fire of another full ar clip? how long do you have to wait before you can fire of another full ascr clip, if you even could in the first place? Dust 514 hurts Go Fabulous or go home
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17605	Posted - 2015.03.12 18:50:00 - [26] - Quote Squagga wrote: They were planning on taking this away fromt he Amarr, as their bonus. Makig the guns well.. the way you want them now. But King Checkmate made about seven threads, some of the other Kaimeras backed him up and made similar threads, for months, in support of them keeping their bonus. So if you want this to change or go back to the way it was supposed to go ... get to posting guys. It's the only way the devs will listen, maybe Kamiera's is the wrong term. Templar or Classiarii might be more appropriate since Kamiera implies Minmatar descent and genetic engineering. As for the other point what else would you put on the Amarr Assault that is both in character with the Amarr and useful. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 15482	Posted - 2015.03.12 18:56:00 - [27] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: with max skills you can fire off a full clip from an assault scram without overheating by a *** hairs width, by the time you reload its only cooled down to half heat. any advantage over the gall assault rifle is lost after one clip and thats with almost 3 mill sp expended, so saying the assault skill totally negates its drawbacks is a bit of a stretch Yeah, no, look at my numbers. There's no arguing with cold hard facts. how long do you have to wait before you can fire of another full ar clip? how long do you have to wait before you can fire of another full ascr clip, if you even could in the first place? Does it matter? The AScR deals as much damage before overheat as the AR does in an entire clip. That still leaves you with like 20 bullets in your mag. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!**
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 96	Posted - 2015.03.12 19:14:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. Its perfectly fine how it is now. I would assume that adding more heat buildup for the ASCR will also mess with the tac SCR. Nothing to see here, move along. Today, is the reckoning. The rise of the amarr Assault MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 283	Posted - 2015.03.12 19:22:00 - [29] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: with max skills you can fire off a full clip from an assault scram without overheating by a ***** hairs width, by the time you reload its only cooled down to half heat. any advantage over the gall assault rifle is lost after one clip and thats with almost 3 mill sp expended, so saying the assault skill totally negates its drawbacks is a bit of a stretch Yeah, no, look at my numbers. There's no arguing with cold hard facts. how long do you have to wait before you can fire of another full ar clip? how long do you have to wait before you can fire of another full ascr clip, if you even could in the first place? Does it matter? The AScR deals as much damage before overheat as the AR does in an entire clip. That still leaves you with like 20 bullets in your mag. With the Amarr Assault it completely blows it out of the water. Reload while waiting for the heat to disappear, it will be done by then. Also, AScR is the fastest reloading rifle kek it matters if you only want to look at the numbers that help support you're argument, peace Dust 514 hurts Go Fabulous or go home
Awesome Pantaloons Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 806	Posted - 2015.03.13 02:03:00 - [30] - Quote It is also important to notice that Cat Merc is Gallante scum (no offense Rattatouille), and thusly all arguments are invalid. Faith proficiency V required. You're all puppets, tangled in strings. I had strings, but now, I'm free. There are no strings on me.



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