DUST Search - AM assault completely removes ASCR's drawback

Monty Mole Clone wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

Monty Mole Clone wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

Monty Mole Clone wrote:

with max skills you can fire off a full clip from an assault scram without overheating by a ***** hairs width, by the time you reload its only cooled down to half heat.

any advantage over the gall assault rifle is lost after one clip and thats with almost 3 mill sp expended, so saying the assault skill totally negates its drawbacks is a bit of a stretch

Yeah, no, look at my numbers.
There's no arguing with cold hard facts.

how long do you have to wait before you can fire of another full ar clip?
how long do you have to wait before you can fire of another full ascr clip, if you even could in the first place?

Does it matter?
The AScR deals as much damage before overheat as the AR does in an entire clip.
That still leaves you with like 20 bullets in your mag.
With the Amarr Assault it completely blows it out of the water.

Reload while waiting for the heat to disappear, it will be done by then.
Also, AScR is the fastest reloading rifle kek

it matters if you only want to look at the numbers that help support you're argument, peace

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Cheydinhal Guard ScReWeD uP InC Smart Deploy 537	Posted - 2015.03.13 02:16:00 - [31] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: with max skills you can fire off a full clip from an assault scram without overheating by a ***** hairs width, by the time you reload its only cooled down to half heat. any advantage over the gall assault rifle is lost after one clip and thats with almost 3 mill sp expended, so saying the assault skill totally negates its drawbacks is a bit of a stretch Right. Waiting a second, or pulling out your sidearm if needed while waiting an extremely short time for your gun to cool down is a huge tradeoff for being more powerful in most aspects. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17620	Posted - 2015.03.13 02:19:00 - [32] - Quote Awesome Pantaloons wrote: It is also important to notice that Cat Merc is Gallante scum (no offense Rattatouille), and thusly all arguments are invalid. Faith proficiency V required. Pffff Faith Proficiency. What are you? A Theological Scrub? Get your self Theology Operation V, Theological Proficiency V, Faith Operation V, Faith Proficiency V, Scriptures Operation V, and Scriptures Proficiency V. Only then will you be worth the non condescending attentions of your spiritual liege........ me. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
CarlitoX Jojooojo 162	Posted - 2015.03.13 02:56:00 - [33] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I'm an crybaby, because i cry a lot Amarr 4 ever. C3PO's alt
Dementia Maniaclease Dust 514 Elite Ops 4	Posted - 2015.03.13 03:09:00 - [34] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Quit nerfing **, actually fix Caldari shields..... Give us ** to counter it.. THIS!!! Caldari shields are a joke! With flux grenades (militia level) destroying them entirely, and the scr (all variants) evaporating them. Don't get me wrong I love the scr, but these shields need a major work over,. Do not Nerf the flux or the scr, just fix the broken mechanics of the shields PLEASE!!!!! That being said I'm going to bed so I can unload freight tomorrow, and maybe get to see these changes everyones up in arms about on the game.
Aoena Rays Bragian Order Amarr Empire 592	Posted - 2015.03.13 03:36:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. Well it needs to have a bit of an issue with armor. Can't just chew through all of it IMO :) Let's see how it goes. Story of your life
xxwhitedevilxx M Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 2955	Posted - 2015.03.13 04:17:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. Why don't we just define it a pulse-laser and change its damage profile to something a bit more comfortable, like +15% -15%. Should be fine.. Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 283	Posted - 2015.03.13 04:56:00 - [37] - Quote Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: with max skills you can fire off a full clip from an assault scram without overheating by a ***** hairs width, by the time you reload its only cooled down to half heat. any advantage over the gall assault rifle is lost after one clip and thats with almost 3 mill sp expended, so saying the assault skill totally negates its drawbacks is a bit of a stretch Right. Waiting a second, or pulling out your sidearm if needed while waiting an extremely short time for your gun to cool down is a huge tradeoff for being more powerful in most aspects. cept what you think is 1 second is actually 9 seconds - whatever the scram op skill gives you Dust 514 hurts Go Fabulous or go home
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 266	Posted - 2015.03.13 05:22:00 - [38] - Quote ASCR has a cool down time of 6 seconds in addition to overheat mechanics (worry about over heat against multiple enemies). This makes the ASCR much harder to use against multiple enemies compared to the AR which reloads in 3 seconds and can keep firing over and over. The AR also has less visual dispersion making it good for precision at 40m ranges.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2660	Posted - 2015.03.13 05:24:00 - [39] - Quote Just drop its magazine to like, 60 or something, and make it overheat faster so Amassaults can't mag dump it. Fixed. Or, we make it real interesting. Increase it magazine size by an absurd amount. 500 round mag, where it just fills up as much as it can, depending on how much ammo your skills allow you to carry. So an AScR that you just skilled into will only (lol only) have 432 rounds in its magazine. Then make it overheat really fast. Like 32 rounds without Amassault(40 rounds with Amassault)... Home at Last <3
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y General Tso's Alliance 621	Posted - 2015.03.13 05:31:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. I think you did a good job with it, it actually feels useful and doesn't make it the ScR's shameful little brother anymore. The new C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y, I'm that Heavy you warn your team about <3 -Heavy/Commando/Logi/Assault/Scout-

Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 15484	Posted - 2015.03.13 06:30:00 - [41] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: with max skills you can fire off a full clip from an assault scram without overheating by a *** hairs width, by the time you reload its only cooled down to half heat. any advantage over the gall assault rifle is lost after one clip and thats with almost 3 mill sp expended, so saying the assault skill totally negates its drawbacks is a bit of a stretch Yeah, no, look at my numbers. There's no arguing with cold hard facts. how long do you have to wait before you can fire of another full ar clip? how long do you have to wait before you can fire of another full ascr clip, if you even could in the first place? Does it matter? The AScR deals as much damage before overheat as the AR does in an entire clip. That still leaves you with like 20 bullets in your mag. With the Amarr Assault it completely blows it out of the water. Reload while waiting for the heat to disappear, it will be done by then. Also, AScR is the fastest reloading rifle kek it matters if you only want to look at the numbers that help support you're argument, peace ... That's exactly what you're doing. What does it matter if it can't dump a full clip? It dumps just as much damage before overheat as the AR does in an entire clip, and it does it faster. There is literally no reason to even care about whether or not it can dump a clip faster than an AR, you're just being an imbecile. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!**
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 22696	Posted - 2015.03.13 07:05:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. Do you think the AR suffers from similar weaknesses against armour, seeing as the DPS difference between an AR and an ASCR both firing against armour is about 2%? Gallente Guide
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 4896	Posted - 2015.03.13 07:09:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. Still worse than ACR and ARR but I think it's better than the AR now, it's not bad just too much armor in this game atm. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
AndyAndio 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 167	Posted - 2015.03.13 07:24:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. real data? who collects that? the same guys that cant introduce new content without being broken (dispersion mods on the lows, shield regs on the highs, just to name a couple) or even get the description right on weapons/equipment? sounds legit.- 2013 DUST 514's MVP of the Year.- Retired for Love of the Game
xavier zor 0uter.Heaven 814	Posted - 2015.03.13 08:00:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. What is your alternate account named i think it is time you give us a hint Rattati retired stabbed musturd, duna, radar, tibs replying -í° -£-û -í°
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 283	Posted - 2015.03.13 13:26:00 - [46] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: ... That's exactly what you're doing. What does it matter if it can't dump a full clip? It dumps just as much damage before overheat as the AR does in an entire clip, and it does it faster. There is literally no reason to even care about whether or not it can dump a clip faster than an AR, you're just being an imbecile. ok then, if the ascr magically cools down from full heat instantly in your magical make believe world, can we make it so it does this for everyone and not just you? and there is no need for insults bud, im just trying to have a civil argument Dust 514 hurts Go Fabulous or go home
Topher Mellen Scott-Mellen Corporation 143	Posted - 2015.03.13 14:12:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. ^This. Anecdotal evidence is not how you balance an MMO. When and only when the data shows a balance issue should it be addressed.
Nirwanda Vaughns 1539	Posted - 2015.03.13 14:52:00 - [48] - Quote yeah i used it a bit and perhaps the heat build up needs adjusting. only a msall amount but just to bring it more in balance Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 870	Posted - 2015.03.13 15:27:00 - [49] - Quote the Scrambler rips shields apart like the combat rifle chews trough armor. I think some Minmatarr assaults are mad cause there is now a good fully auto anti shield weapon to end their strafing madness. Cause i actually see now min. assaults with plates due to that. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12135	Posted - 2015.03.13 19:47:00 - [50] - Quote Topher Mellen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. ^This. Anecdotal evidence is not how you balance an MMO. When and only when the data shows a balance issue should it be addressed. I'm not talking about anecdotal evidence, i'm talking about cold hard stats. Look at the quotes with the numbers in the OP. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

Georgia Xavier Y.A.M.A.H 71	Posted - 2015.03.13 20:02:00 - [51] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I would suggest overheat at 36 rounds. This is about 1512 damage from a Carthum AScR before overheat. By comparison, a Viziam ScR overheats at about 15 shots, or 1072.5 damage. I believe 36 shots is plenty of damage before overheat compared to the base ScR. This is about half the magazine. Please Rattati, I love the ScR and AScR. Don't let my baby become the next FOTM. ^ this, all this!! How many amarr does it take to change a light bulb? none. The minmatar do it for them
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 266	Posted - 2015.03.13 20:12:00 - [52] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Assault scrambler has a fixed dispersion rate that cannot be minimized (i.e. turned into a bullet hose) like the other rifles can by "bursting" proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVDPmIhkx8 Note how I can continue to fire the weapon for as long as I want and there is no barrel climb, and the dispersion does not increase or decrease based on how long I hold the trigger down. This means that it is very hard to use at long ranges as only 50% of your shots actually hit the target because of dispersion. Against a large amount of armor this weapon cannot hit accurately enough to deal a significant amount of DPS from range. ____________________________________________________________________________________ CQC is where this gun shines, but you wouldn't ever use ADS at such short ranges. and hipfire is never 100% accurate. On paper it might look super deadly, but the buff makes it a viable weapon now instead of just a scout killer that used to be completely useless against heavies (even calsents) ^ Edit: I'm a cal and I approve of the ASR buff "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Velvet Overkill SI6MA Learning Alliance 137	Posted - 2015.03.17 15:55:00 - [53] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I played around with it for a few matches, my KDR dropped from ARR and ACR. Still has problems with armor. Let's see how it performs using real data. Why don't we just define it a pulse-laser and change its damage profile to something a bit more comfortable, like +15% -15%. Should be fine.. The gun really has serious problems on armor. CCP Rattati, you shouldn't make an anti-shield weapon great against armor for so many obvious reasons. As xxwhitedevilxx M said, having a new profile for pulse lasers, +15/-15, is a more rational solution than making it instant kill shields and shred armor while never overheating with AM AS. Also Rattati, do you have a problem with mass drivers having a hard time against shields?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3539	Posted - 2015.03.17 16:39:00 - [54] - Quote The issue with the ScR/AScR or AR is not that they are UP, but rather the meta highly favors armor tanking. Look around. How many shield suits do you see running around? Not low-HP min or cal scouts -- they are easy to kill with any weapon, but assaults and heavies? I don't see many at all. When I do, the AR or ScR eats them alive. The fact that the Cal Assault bonus is a joke and that just about every Min Assault is dual tanking (or jumping around like a bunny) adds to the challenge. You do see Cal heavies every once in a while, but people are used to not taking any heavy on face to face, so the impact is minimal. The shield-based guns (ScR & AR) struggle with armor, which by my count outnumbers shield tanking more than 3:1, thus those guns under-perform. It's really not that complex an issue. tl;dr: Armor>Shields, which biases usage towards armor tanking, thus shield based weapons under-perform.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3539	Posted - 2015.03.17 16:50:00 - [55] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: This means that it is very hard to use at long ranges as only 50% of your shots actually hit the target because of dispersion. Against a large amount of armor this weapon cannot hit accurately enough to deal a significant amount of DPS from range. In my short experience with the AScR, the above is dead on correct. Setting aside the issues noted in my prior post, the AsCR is not half the killer at longer ranges as the ARR or even the AR -- both of which can become great killers at range with some trigger control....wheresd no measure of trigger control will fix the AScR (although a turbo controller helps) because of the dispersion at distance. AScR...a great CQC weapon but not really good at range. Or at least I've not figured out how to be effective with it yet.
Boot Booter Titans of Phoenix 1198	Posted - 2015.03.17 16:52:00 - [56] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: The issue with the ScR/AScR or AR is not that they are UP, but rather the meta highly favors armor tanking. Look around. How many shield suits do you see running around? Not low-HP min or cal scouts -- they are easy to kill with any weapon, but assaults and heavies? I don't see many at all. When I do, the AR or ScR eats them alive. The observation that the Cal Assault bonus is a joke and that just about every Min Assault is dual tanking (or jumping around like a bunny) adds to the challenge. You do see Cal heavies every once in a while, but people are used to not taking any heavy on face to face, so the impact is minimal. The shield-based guns (ScR & AR) struggle with armor, which by my count outnumbers shield tanking more than 3:1, thus those guns under-perform. It's really not that complex an issue. Fix the inequality in armor and shields, drive a more equal use of both, and you'll see the weapons come into line. Until then, I think we're chasing the wrong problem. tl;dr: Armor>Shields, which biases usage towards armor tanking, thus shield based weapons under-perform. Haha this right here. It really makes no sense to keep arguing and tweaking weapons when armor is clearly better than shields.
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1314	Posted - 2015.03.17 18:07:00 - [57] - Quote Looks like I will be tooling around with this on my Amarr assault char for a bit tomorrow. Good that the gun will see some use it has been dead in the water for awhile, even though I personally have been using it to my own detriment. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....


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