DUST Search - Why are shotguns so short range and high alpha?

Shutter Fly wrote:

MINA Longstrike wrote:

Billi Gene wrote:

MINA Longstrike wrote:

Its not about seeing shotguns everywhere, I want them to be a seriously considered and viable option on assaults or commandos for those slugfests in maps like research lab, I'd be entirely fine with a well positioned shotgun user racking shots into people at 20m.

Right now the only 'viable' gameplay with shotguns is to run straight at people with a high speed, low profile suit, touch someone's back or side and then put shots into them.

ignore the name of the gun, and think about what it is that you want from the Weapon.
Is there another Weapon that does what you are asking for?
if there is, then there is no need to modify the Shotgun.
If there isnt another weapon that does what you are looking for, is there one that is close to it?
Modify That weapon.

IE: the Ion Pistol.

You're missing the point, its about fostering a discussion a weapon that is currently in an unhealthy place - they are useful on exactly one type of suit where they are arguably 'overpowered' on anything else you are considerably better served to carry almost anything else.

Lets not drag discussion of pistols or cloaks into this, this threads purpose is not complain beyond the statement that "the shotgun is broken in its current form". Even the plasma cannon has more applicable use as a 'specialist' weapon than the shotgun.

So...how exactly does this lead to the solution of modifying the shotgun to be a completely different weapon?

Why is it such a huge problem that the SG isn't as useful on Assaults as it is on Scouts, anyway? I've yet to see any reasoning from you explaining this. You seem to be fabricating this "issue" as a means of artificially inflating the viability of your otherwise unnecessary "fix".

The shotgun is a very specifically tailored weapon, made to be very effective in its designated area. why is that such a huge issue in your point of view?

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MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2244	Posted - 2015.02.25 05:47:00 - [1] - Quote These weapons are in such a silly and unhealthy place right now. They're only 'good' on high speed, low profile scouts that make up for the disadvantage of needing to touch someone with the weapon in order to kill them... And let's not even get started on the terrible spot the breach is in. Std shotgun = 10 pellets * 40 dmg, with a .7s refire rate = 1200 dmg alpha at 1.5 seconds. Their current stats have them doing 571.4 dps at basic. What if we extended a shotguns optimal range out to ~20m and its effective to around 27m, dropped its damage to 32 * 10 pellets and kept its RoF & refire the same, this would make it potentially viable on assaults & commandos and considerably less instagibby on scouts, it would be doing 457.2 dps with these numbers. If it turns out to be overpowered on assaults/commandos we could potentially tweak the dmg a little lower In short I'm a little miffed that the last game I played with a shotgun that actually felt like a shotgun was doom2 Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 513	Posted - 2015.02.25 06:09:00 - [2] - Quote 12 pellets Also, the shotgun shouldn't ever be hitting optimally beyond 10-12 meters, no matter the damage. I do think the shotgun could use a slight increase to range, along with a damage decrease, but only accompanying an increase to TTK in general. With the current TTK, there just isn't any room to adjust the SG. Any less damage and the shotgunner gets torn up. Any more and you get even more ridiculous OHKs. ...and yes, the Breach Shotgun is complete crap, and it bothers me to no end.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2245	Posted - 2015.02.25 06:15:00 - [3] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: 12 pellets Also, the shotgun shouldn't ever be hitting optimally beyond 10-12 meters, no matter the damage. Why? Based on what reasoning? Are you aware of how shotguns work in real life where they shot quite well up to and beyond 30m. Thanks for the correction on the pellets though. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 4705	Posted - 2015.02.25 06:20:00 - [4] - Quote This dude did 1400 DMG 2 shots with a std last match.. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 513	Posted - 2015.02.25 06:33:00 - [5] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: 12 pellets Also, the shotgun shouldn't ever be hitting optimally beyond 10-12 meters, no matter the damage. Why? Based on what reasoning? Are you aware of how shotguns work in real life where they shot quite well up to and beyond 30m. Thanks for the correction on the pellets though. I don't really care how real shotguns work, it isn't particularly relevant here. For my personal view of how shotguns should work, see this. A topic I posted, unfortunately it was just before the beginning of the login issues and was mostly ignored. Shotguns have always been the primary CQC weapon of Dust. Extending the range out beyond 20m is starting to blend in with the AR's optimal. The AR is meant to be a high DPS CQC rifle that can remain effective at longer ranges. The shotgun is meant to be extremely effective in extremely close quarters (although a bit unwieldy in NK ranges), but mostly ineffective at anything longer. The problem with shotguns currently isn't their role itself, its that the high-alpha CQC role doesn't balance well with our currently low TTK. It creates far too many OHK situations, but without that, shotgunners die far too quickly trying to close distance.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2246	Posted - 2015.02.25 06:35:00 - [6] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: This dude did 1400 DMG 2 shots with a std last match.. That's crazy. I'm really interested in try to get shotguns into a place where assaults and commandos would want to use them, without them being instagibby on a scout. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 1846	Posted - 2015.02.25 06:36:00 - [7] - Quote Why are shotguns so short range and high alpha? That's like asking why assault rifles shoot bullets. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9675	Posted - 2015.02.25 06:42:00 - [8] - Quote I'd like it if they were able to not be completely useless past 5 meters but I don't want them to be anywhere near effective. past that the dispersion should get a lot worse and less and less shots hit you while the projectiles spread with range. At 7 meters I'd like only 60% (about 7 pellets) of the projectiles hitting you. At 10 meters I'd like only 50% (6 pellets) of the Projectiles hitting you. At 13 meters I'd like only 30% (about 4 pellets) hitting you, and now it's no longer doing optimal 15 meters only doing 20% (about 2 pellets) and less optimal any further than that and good luck hitting a target you intend on hitting but less and less damage from falloff on top of that. Essentially doing nothing. MINA Longstrike wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: This dude did 1400 DMG 2 shots with a std last match.. That's crazy. I'm really interested in try to get shotguns into a place where assaults and commandos would want to use them, without them being instagibby on a scout. I'm very much for this too. While they can be used on Gallente Assaults it's not exactly a fit I would bring to a PC match. A Minmatar Assault could but then again, what doesn't a Minmatar assault do? I don't want the shotgun to be OP but I'd wish it wasn't so exclusive to one suit. It isn't a cloak, it isn't knives, it's not a heavy weapon it's a light weapon. *As long as 4/5 (80%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP*
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2250	Posted - 2015.02.25 06:45:00 - [9] - Quote ^part of it would be that dispersion/spread from gal-assault would be applicable. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 513	Posted - 2015.02.25 06:48:00 - [10] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: This dude did 1400 DMG 2 shots with a std last match.. That's crazy. I'm really interested in try to get shotguns into a place where assaults and commandos would want to use them, without them being instagibby on a scout. Probably headshots, 1400 damage is entirely possible with 2 full hits and 20/24 pellets as a headshot. Also, shotguns are definitely viable on Assaults, and not just the Minmatar. The Gal assault can use the SG very effectively

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9675	Posted - 2015.02.25 06:51:00 - [11] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: ^part of it would be that dispersion/spread from gal-assault would be applicable. Hahaha and finally I'd be able to properly appreciate that bonus. It is a decent bonus but if you have sharpshooter it kinda devoids it. If you don't want to skill into sharpshooter on your AR then the Gallente bonus will save you some SP. Outside of that, it's barely noticeable past Sharpshooter level 2 on a Maxed Gallente Assault with TAR. Imagine how unseen it is with the other ARs that are already damn near laser accurate. and too much accuracy at the hipfire can be a bad thing for those people that like to say more hip fire accuracy is better. Look at the heavy machine gun issue before it became what it is now, it was too damn accurate. *As long as 4/5 (80%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP*
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2251	Posted - 2015.02.25 06:54:00 - [12] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: This dude did 1400 DMG 2 shots with a std last match.. That's crazy. I'm really interested in try to get shotguns into a place where assaults and commandos would want to use them, without them being instagibby on a scout. Probably headshots, 1400 damage is entirely possible with 2 full hits and 20/24 pellets as a headshot. Also, shotguns are definitely viable on Assaults, and not just the Minmatar. The Gal assault can use the SG very effectively Hahaha no, I've spent several hours on a gal assault 5 trying to get it to work. If it could shoot more than 5 meters maybe, the gun itself has lot of problems that are only propped up by low profile high speed suits. I want a shotgunner to ruin me at 20m with 3 accurate shots when were both assaults, that's barely the distance across most 'small' rooms in dust. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 146	Posted - 2015.02.25 06:58:00 - [13] - Quote All I can say now is that the shotgun is not a great gun for assaulting things. You need speed to make it work, and stealth adds further synergistic boon. I like the idea of one that shoots every .5 seconds and does 250 (25*10) damage per shot. with a 15m-20m optimal, and a 25-28m effective range. Make it more like an AA-12. You might want to use it in a Research Lab situation (or the new caldari socket with the room that has one way out), but not on Manus Peaks as it lacks a longer range. As a Gallente commando, an AA-12 sounds appealing for offense and defense. For current shotguns, it is always better to be a speedy assault, or scout since you need to be so close to use them. Wouldn't it be more fun for everyone if it was mare attractive to more suits? Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 513	Posted - 2015.02.25 07:05:00 - [14] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: This dude did 1400 DMG 2 shots with a std last match.. That's crazy. I'm really interested in try to get shotguns into a place where assaults and commandos would want to use them, without them being instagibby on a scout. Probably headshots, 1400 damage is entirely possible with 2 full hits and 20/24 pellets as a headshot. Also, shotguns are definitely viable on Assaults, and not just the Minmatar. The Gal assault can use the SG very effectively Hahaha no, I've spent several hours on a gal assault 5 alt trying to get it to work, no I didn't have kin cats 5 or profile dampening 5 or speed/damp fit as that would moot my point. If it could shoot more than 5 meters maybe, the gun itself has lot of problems that are only propped up by low profile high speed suits. I want a shotgunner to ruin me at 20m with 3 accurate shots when were both assaults, that's barely the distance across most 'small' rooms in dust. I also want to fix some of the 'scout standing right on a sentinels back and killing him in 1.5-2.2secs' I do think the shotgun currently kills far too fast. I'm not going to type my entire explanation out again, so follow the link in my post earlier in the thread. That is what I think the issue is, and quadrupling the range is not part of the solution. As for a SG GalAss, this seems very effective. I'm still working on getting up to lv5 Gal Assault, but my ADV variant of the fitting has proven to be extremely useful.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2255	Posted - 2015.02.25 07:24:00 - [15] - Quote ^your post about shotguns has no discussion of numbers, it just seemingly flatly states that shotguns need to take longer to kill. Part of increasing TTK and getting the weapon into a healthy place involves increased range. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9675	Posted - 2015.02.25 07:44:00 - [16] - Quote I can do that too. More range will be better because we think it will be better because reasons. *As long as 4/5 (80%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP*
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 514	Posted - 2015.02.25 07:48:00 - [17] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: ^your post about shotguns has no discussion of numbers, it just seemingly flatly states that shotguns need to take longer to kill. Part of increasing TTK and getting the weapon into a healthy place involves increased range. It's a theoretical suggestion, so of course there aren't exact numbers. Exact numbers are meaningless when the frame of reference is a single weapon being used on opponents of a wide range of potential HP values. In that context, discussion in terms of the number of shots needed to kill and percentage of headshots and partial hits is much more useful in reaching a useful result. In the end, my counterargument to you is simply that a large increase to range isn't the correct course of action. We don't need to completely overhaul the weapon's purpose. It's been balanced and effective in the past, and it never had a realistically effective range over 10-12m. Your solution is a complete overhaul of a single weapon that is ultimately a localized bandage fix for the much larger issue of TTK.
Billi Gene 540	Posted - 2015.02.25 07:52:00 - [18] - Quote as someone who runs it alot, increasing its effective range to 10m and reducing dispersion by about 20% would be nice.* it works well as a high alpha close range weapon, but its steep falloff and high dispersion make it useless otherwise. In many ways I am happy with where it is, because increasing its range would be a direct buff to scouts, reducing risk. If i want to run a longer range shotty... i tend to go with a ScR charge shot+4 shot burst. *numbers are arbitrary. Pedant, Ape, Troll. My Beard makes Alpha's sook :P
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 1274	Posted - 2015.02.25 07:57:00 - [19] - Quote I saw a few assaults running shotties. It worked. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9675	Posted - 2015.02.25 08:04:00 - [20] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: I saw a few assaults running shotties. It worked. Pub matches. I can run a Gallente Commando Kin Catted like crazy with a melee mod and kill people. It worked, is it viable? Maybe for pubs, but certainly not all pubs and most definitely not PC or serious FW matches. I really get tired of the argument people use of seeing it in a pub match with pub trash and then saying "herp derp, look he can kill my idiot teammates by nova knifing them in a heavy suit! That most be a competitive playstyle* (not saying that heavies with novo knives should be viable by the way.) *As long as 4/5 (80%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP*

Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 3382	Posted - 2015.02.25 08:05:00 - [21] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: In short I'm a little miffed that the last game I played with a shotgun that actually felt like a shotgun was doom2 Try Tom Clancy Ghost Recon: Phantoms, now those are shotguns. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Dengru Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 501	Posted - 2015.02.25 08:12:00 - [22] - Quote Shotguns were viable on assaults, moreso than scouts, since chromosome. And it continued on with logis.. changes with ttk a long with necessity of dampening changed that for many months but now it's about even. The speed, stamina recovery, dampening and tanking potential make min assault better than just certain gal scout fits. I agree with shuttle fly they are fine. The main issue with cloaks is that they negated all the hindrances one would have in navigating and getting to a target. If you extend the range it's just flirting with the chromosome sharpshooter shotguns which are unnecessary in current build. Isn't it good playing without seeing shotguns everywhere? It's heaven, don't change it (>^_^)><(^.^<)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2255	Posted - 2015.02.25 08:31:00 - [23] - Quote Its not about seeing shotguns everywhere, I want them to be a seriously considered and viable option on assaults or commandos for those slugfests in maps like research lab, I'd be entirely fine with a well positioned shotgun user racking shots into people at 20m. Right now the only 'viable' gameplay with shotguns is to run straight at people with a high speed, low profile suit, touch someone's back or side and then put shots into them. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Proto Annihilator 16 Vandals 370	Posted - 2015.02.25 08:40:00 - [24] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: In short I'm a little miffed that the last game I played with a shotgun that actually felt like a shotgun was doom2 Try Tom Clancy Ghost Recon: Phantoms, now those are shotguns. He's dead.
Billi Gene 541	Posted - 2015.02.25 08:44:00 - [25] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Its not about seeing shotguns everywhere, I want them to be a seriously considered and viable option on assaults or commandos for those slugfests in maps like research lab, I'd be entirely fine with a well positioned shotgun user racking shots into people at 20m. Right now the only 'viable' gameplay with shotguns is to run straight at people with a high speed, low profile suit, touch someone's back or side and then put shots into them. ignore the name of the gun, and think about what it is that you want from the Weapon. Is there another Weapon that does what you are asking for? if there is, then there is no need to modify the Shotgun. If there isnt another weapon that does what you are looking for, is there one that is close to it? Modify That weapon. IE: the Ion Pistol. Pedant, Ape, Troll. My Beard makes Alpha's sook :P
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2255	Posted - 2015.02.25 08:51:00 - [26] - Quote Billi Gene wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Its not about seeing shotguns everywhere, I want them to be a seriously considered and viable option on assaults or commandos for those slugfests in maps like research lab, I'd be entirely fine with a well positioned shotgun user racking shots into people at 20m. Right now the only 'viable' gameplay with shotguns is to run straight at people with a high speed, low profile suit, touch someone's back or side and then put shots into them. ignore the name of the gun, and think about what it is that you want from the Weapon. Is there another Weapon that does what you are asking for? if there is, then there is no need to modify the Shotgun. If there isnt another weapon that does what you are looking for, is there one that is close to it? Modify That weapon. IE: the Ion Pistol. You're missing the point, its about fostering a discussion a weapon that is currently in an unhealthy place - they are useful on exactly one type of suit where they are arguably 'overpowered' on anything else you are considerably better served to carry almost anything else. Lets not drag discussion of pistols or cloaks into this, this threads purpose is not complain beyond the statement that "the shotgun is broken in its current form". Even the plasma cannon has more applicable use as a 'specialist' weapon than the shotgun. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Proto Annihilator 16 Vandals 370	Posted - 2015.02.25 08:58:00 - [27] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Billi Gene wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Its not about seeing shotguns everywhere, I want them to be a seriously considered and viable option on assaults or commandos for those slugfests in maps like research lab, I'd be entirely fine with a well positioned shotgun user racking shots into people at 20m. Right now the only 'viable' gameplay with shotguns is to run straight at people with a high speed, low profile suit, touch someone's back or side and then put shots into them. ignore the name of the gun, and think about what it is that you want from the Weapon. Is there another Weapon that does what you are asking for? if there is, then there is no need to modify the Shotgun. If there isnt another weapon that does what you are looking for, is there one that is close to it? Modify That weapon. IE: the Ion Pistol. You're missing the point, its about fostering a discussion a weapon that is currently in an unhealthy place - they are useful on exactly one type of suit where they are arguably 'overpowered' on anything else you are considerably better served to carry almost anything else. Lets not drag discussion of pistols or cloaks into this, this threads purpose is not complain beyond the statement that "the shotgun is broken in its current form". Even the plasma cannon has more applicable use as a 'specialist' weapon than the shotgun. Increase hit detection across the board and we can talk about buffing the shotgun. Until speed tanking loses its place as only viable playstyle leave the shotgun out of the balance passes.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 149	Posted - 2015.02.25 09:01:00 - [28] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: All I can say now is that the shotgun is not a great gun for assaulting things. You need speed to make it work, and stealth adds further synergistic boon. I like the idea of one that shoots every .5 seconds and does 250 (25*10) damage per shot. with a 15m-20m optimal, and a 25-28m effective range. Make it more like an AA-12. You might want to use it in a Research Lab situation (or the new caldari socket with the room that has one way out), but not on Manus Peaks as it lacks a longer range. As a Gallente commando, an AA-12 sounds appealing for offense and defense. For current shotguns, it is always better to be a speedy assault, or scout since you need to be so close to use them. Wouldn't it be more fun for everyone if it was mare attractive to more suits? This thread seems to be getting a tad bit derailed. Let's try a thought experiment. IF a shotgun was like how I described here (perhaps with less spread also), would you want to use it? Would it be more/less attractive to scouts/logis/commandos/assaults? I thinks scouts might hate it as it doesn't instant;y blat people, but I can see assaults/commandos enjoying it as you don't need speed to make it work, and I could even see a logi use it. Maybe rework the breach shotgun to be more like the current model, but have the assault/standard shotgun be like described. Essentially, I'd like to see another close range weapon besides the HMG, that has appeal on non speed/stealth fits. Assaults/commandos that want to breach a room, or defend an objective. That and SG scouts would be less frustrating to newbies (I'm used to them now). Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 516	Posted - 2015.02.25 09:16:00 - [29] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Billi Gene wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Its not about seeing shotguns everywhere, I want them to be a seriously considered and viable option on assaults or commandos for those slugfests in maps like research lab, I'd be entirely fine with a well positioned shotgun user racking shots into people at 20m. Right now the only 'viable' gameplay with shotguns is to run straight at people with a high speed, low profile suit, touch someone's back or side and then put shots into them. ignore the name of the gun, and think about what it is that you want from the Weapon. Is there another Weapon that does what you are asking for? if there is, then there is no need to modify the Shotgun. If there isnt another weapon that does what you are looking for, is there one that is close to it? Modify That weapon. IE: the Ion Pistol. You're missing the point, its about fostering a discussion a weapon that is currently in an unhealthy place - they are useful on exactly one type of suit where they are arguably 'overpowered' on anything else you are considerably better served to carry almost anything else. Lets not drag discussion of pistols or cloaks into this, this threads purpose is not complain beyond the statement that "the shotgun is broken in its current form". Even the plasma cannon has more applicable use as a 'specialist' weapon than the shotgun. So...how exactly does this lead to the solution of modifying the shotgun to be a completely different weapon? Why is it such a huge problem that the SG isn't as useful on Assaults as it is on Scouts, anyway? I've yet to see any reasoning from you explaining this. You seem to be fabricating this "issue" as a means of artificially inflating the viability of your otherwise unnecessary "fix". The shotgun is a very specifically tailored weapon, made to be very effective in its designated area. why is that such a huge issue in your point of view?
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 149	Posted - 2015.02.25 09:31:00 - [30] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Billi Gene wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Its not about seeing shotguns everywhere, I want them to be a seriously considered and viable option on assaults or commandos for those slugfests in maps like research lab, I'd be entirely fine with a well positioned shotgun user racking shots into people at 20m. Right now the only 'viable' gameplay with shotguns is to run straight at people with a high speed, low profile suit, touch someone's back or side and then put shots into them. ignore the name of the gun, and think about what it is that you want from the Weapon. Is there another Weapon that does what you are asking for? if there is, then there is no need to modify the Shotgun. If there isnt another weapon that does what you are looking for, is there one that is close to it? Modify That weapon. IE: the Ion Pistol. You're missing the point, its about fostering a discussion a weapon that is currently in an unhealthy place - they are useful on exactly one type of suit where they are arguably 'overpowered' on anything else you are considerably better served to carry almost anything else. Lets not drag discussion of pistols or cloaks into this, this threads purpose is not complain beyond the statement that "the shotgun is broken in its current form". Even the plasma cannon has more applicable use as a 'specialist' weapon than the shotgun. So...how exactly does this lead to the solution of modifying the shotgun to be a completely different weapon? Why is it such a huge problem that the SG isn't as useful on Assaults as it is on Scouts, anyway? I've yet to see any reasoning from you explaining this. You seem to be fabricating this "issue" as a means of artificially inflating the viability of your otherwise unnecessary "fix". The shotgun is a very specifically tailored weapon, made to be very effective in its designated area. why is that such a huge issue in your point of view? I like the idea of a weapon being appealing to a wide variety of different suits. The fact that it essentially only appeals to just the Scout, is kinda sad. The fact that a Gallente commando would prefer not to carry one of its own racial weapons because it is so terribly suited to do so seems kind of sad. Or that a Logi in the middle of a close quarters engagement wouldn't want one because they can't get within 10m of someone due to their lack of mobility. I don't care which suit is the best with it, I'm just disappointed to only have one class want to use a primary weapon. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m



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