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Why are shotguns so short range and high alpha?

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MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2255	Posted - 2015.02.25 09:47:00 - [31] - Quote Attempting to discredit my point by claiming that I've fabricated the issue is pretty low when as I understand you shutter, you also want the shotgun to be 'fixed', but apparently that's supposed to happen with no changes made to anything other than damage? Shotguns as a weapon have been in an uncomfortable spot for a long time, for the what 6 months when scouts ruled the game the shotgun was their weapon of choice because of how insanely it benefits from having the 'first mover' advantage. In pc there is still a large contingent of shotgun use going on, as in pubs, but this weapon is limited to a single suit - the scout, a shotgun on anything else is incredibly sub par. In short the shotgun is incredibly over specialized. In order to perform any fix that isn't a straight nerf (ie make a weapon that's only useable on one suit unusable on any suit) some things need to seriously change... Like the shotgun being made into a gun that not only would scouts want, but commandos and assaults too. How is that done? By decreasing the weapons reliance on the 'first mover' advantage of stealth / speed aka, the weapon needs more range. It's a relatively simple sequence of steps to get to the conclusion I did. Now the real question is, ignoring everything else if there was a weapon like this in dust, that did that level of dps over that range, would you want to use it? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 516	Posted - 2015.02.25 11:15:00 - [32] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Attempting to discredit my point by claiming that I've fabricated the issue is pretty low when as I understand you shutter, I may have misconstrued my intent with that post, and I apologize. I didn't mean to suggest that you intentionally created an issue that wasn't there, my wording was poorly chosen to that point. However, I was pointing out that you may be seeing a problem that isn't, at its core, the real problem. Quote: you also want the shotgun to be 'fixed', but apparently that's supposed to happen with no changes made to anything other than damage? In comparison to your suggestion, yes, that is what I'm saying. I'm not completely against any change to the SGs range, just one that changes the base mechanics of the weapon. I'm also not saying changing the SG's damage will fix the issue, I'm suggesting the overall TTK is the problem. So, yes, I just think the damage is the problem, but not just the shotgun. Quote: Shotguns as a weapon have been in an uncomfortable spot for a long time, for the what 6 months when scouts ruled the game the shotgun was their weapon of choice because of how insanely it benefits from having the 'first mover' advantage. In pc there is still a large contingent of shotgun use going on, as in pubs, but this weapon is limited to a single suit - the scout, a shotgun on anything else is incredibly sub par. In short the shotgun is incredibly over specialized. In order to perform any fix that isn't a straight nerf (ie make a weapon that's only useable on one suit unusable on any suit) some things need to seriously change... Like the shotgun being made into a gun that not only would scouts want, but commandos and assaults too. How is that done? By decreasing the weapons reliance on the 'first mover' advantage of stealth / speed aka, the weapon needs more range. It's a relatively simple sequence of steps to get to the conclusion I did. Now the real question is, ignoring everything else if there was a weapon like this in dust, that did that level of dps over that range, would you want to use it? If yes then those are probably the steps that should be made - get the weapon into a good place where multiple suits will want it rather than having people go 'dear god why would you fit that'. What I see the issue as is the overall TTK, which plagues every aspect of Dust currently. The reason Scouts are most effective with the shotgun is that they are good at not getting hit, which I think we both agree on. To fix this, we don't have to make it easier to use the shotgun without getting hit, we have to address the overall issue of why getting hit is such a huge problem. HMGs instantly destroy everything within 15m, the ACR shreds anything within 30m, and the ARR does the same between 10 and 50m. Assaults are underrepresented as it is, and that's because its just all-around better to avoid getting hit, rather than tanking the damage you do take. That issue is just compounded by CQC weapons. If the overly centralizing TTK is taken care of, you'll see those problems disappear. Heavies will have more counters, Scouts will run weapons other than SGs and ACRs, and Assaults will be useable in a variety of situations (including shotgun roles). Why? The Assault suits can combine the abilities to take a hit and rep it off better than a Scout, Logi, Heavy, or Commando. Who cares if you take hits getting within 10m if you can still get the kills, then regen the lost HP? Assaults don't get to utilize that advantage right now, because taking damage without concurrently dealing it is more than likely to lead directly to death. If Scouts aren't forced to completely avoid damage, they will be open to more varied roles. They won't be able to overtake assaults as easily with pure preemption, so they will have to employ misdirection and guerrilla tactics. In return, they will be able to take some damage, in order to draw fire, rather than being insta-kill ninjas. Heavies won't be able to instantly shred everything in their sights, but they will have more ability to stand against incoming fire and continue dealing damage. They might get overrun by a shotgunner, but they will get to retaliate, and the shotgunner will still have a chance to retain the upper hand. Commandos can dish out some heavy DPS, but they don't have much HP. Being able to survive a bit longer would give them a much better chance of making their damage output relevant. Faster reload isn't very useful if your opponents can kill you in less than 1/2 a mag. All of these things were once in Dust (except the commando thing, Commandos weren't around yet), and it was probably the most balanced point in its history, unfortunately they slowly morphed into what we have today due to small, reactive bandages. Your solution will work, but it isn't one that gets to the real root of the problem. It is just another bandage.
4lbert Wesker King and Queens 127	Posted - 2015.02.25 11:18:00 - [33] - Quote Does normal and breach variant of shotguns have same range? Public skirmish = camping games
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 516	Posted - 2015.02.25 11:23:00 - [34] - Quote 4lbert Wesker wrote: Does normal and breach variant of shotguns have same range? For the most part, yes. The Breach has slightly more range, but it has so many other issues that it isn't really noticeable.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7666	Posted - 2015.02.25 11:39:00 - [35] - Quote Shotguns are fine. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
diablo gamekeeper T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2015.02.25 11:39:00 - [36] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: These weapons are in such a silly and unhealthy place right now. They're only 'good' on high speed, low profile scouts that make up for the disadvantage of needing to touch someone with the weapon in order to kill them... And let's not even get started on the terrible spot the breach is in. Std shotgun = 12 pellets * 40 dmg, with a .7s refire rate = 1440 dmg alpha at 1.5 seconds. Their current stats have them doing 685.68 dps at basic. (Edit to fix numbers for 12 pellets). What if we extended a shotguns optimal range out to ~20m and its effective to around 27m, dropped its damage to 32 * 10 pellets and kept its RoF & refire the same, this would make it potentially viable on assaults & commandos and considerably less instagibby on scouts, it would be doing 457.2 dps with these numbers. If it turns out to be overpowered on assaults/commandos we could potentially tweak the dmg a little lower In short I'm a little miffed that the last game I played with a shotgun that actually felt like a shotgun was doom2 Lololololololololololololololol gtfoh
Racro 01 Arifistan Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 504	Posted - 2015.02.25 11:52:00 - [37] - Quote i have no problem what so ever using a shotgun on a gall assault with 3 damps/cloak.....I don't see a problem at all with the shotgun. depending on the situation your in/how its used can be bought into question but overall its a relatively balanced weapon. sacrifces range for pure CQC damage/high alpha fair enough. honestly the shotgun dosnt need to be touched. its a perfectly balanced/fine weapon. when used on a suit with the right combination of modules and play style helps to mitigate the fact it has no range. also. just for fun gallente assault gk.o 3X complex profile damps 2X complex kinkats 2X complex presion enhancments 1x complex lightn damage mod STD cloak creodron shotgun toxin SMG some type of grenade. have fun. also. has profile of 18. only 2 more than my gk.o scout running lvl 5 and 2 complex damps. I see no problem with the shotgun being on medium frames... *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Varoth Drac State of Purgatory General Tso's Alliance 595	Posted - 2015.02.25 13:03:00 - [38] - Quote I've advocated this before. Another advantage, beyond making shotguns more viable on a range of suits, is that it would consolidate nova knives as the most effective assassin weapon. Often I worry that my Min scout would be better off ditching the knives in favour of a shotgun. If I sneak up right behind somebody I often feel it would be much easier to just shotgun them in the back rather than bother with nova knives. This just isn't right on a suit with a 25% knife damage bonus.
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 328	Posted - 2015.02.25 13:07:00 - [39] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: This dude did 1400 DMG 2 shots with a std last match.. That's crazy. I'm really interested in try to get shotguns into a place where assaults and commandos would want to use them, without them being instagibby on a scout. That's easy to do Heim I'll tell you a secret in game Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 328	Posted - 2015.02.25 13:09:00 - [40] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: i have no problem what so ever using a shotgun on a gall assault with 3 damps/cloak.....I don't see a problem at all with the shotgun. depending on the situation your in/how its used can be bought into question but overall its a relatively balanced weapon. sacrifces range for pure CQC damage/high alpha fair enough. honestly the shotgun dosnt need to be touched. its a perfectly balanced/fine weapon. when used on a suit with the right combination of modules and play style helps to mitigate the fact it has no range. also. just for fun gallente assault gk.o 3X complex profile damps 2X complex kinkats 2X complex presion enhancments 1x complex lightn damage mod STD cloak creodron shotgun toxin SMG some type of grenade. have fun. also. has profile of 18. only 2 more than my gk.o scout running lvl 5 and 2 complex damps. I see no problem with the shotgun being on medium frames... My longest range kill so far is the 15m with sg Yet another slave of Mortedeamor

Nirwanda Vaughns 1458	Posted - 2015.02.25 13:23:00 - [41] - Quote i use my 'Daemon' on gall assault (proto skills) you can get soem good damage from further away due to the assaults hip fire/dispertion bonus. if use it on a proto suit i generally have complex profile damp complex cardiac complex kinkat 2 complex reactive plates (may have to knock to enhanced for higher tier shotties) 3 x complex DMs 'dameon' shottie toxin smg specialist active scanner its a lil mish-mash but in right hands it can be pretty nice suit. Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 846	Posted - 2015.02.25 13:28:00 - [42] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: These weapons are in such a silly and unhealthy place right now. They're only 'good' on high speed, low profile scouts Tell that to the many people who have run at my commando with breach shotgun.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2255	Posted - 2015.02.25 19:38:00 - [43] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: i use my 'Daemon' on gall assault (proto skills) you can get soem good damage from further away due to the assaults hip fire/dispertion bonus. if use it on a proto suit i generally have complex profile damp complex cardiac complex kinkat 2 complex reactive plates (may have to knock to enhanced for higher tier shotties) 3 x complex DMs 'dameon' shottie toxin smg specialist active scanner its a lil mish-mash but in right hands it can be pretty nice suit. So... in order for it to work, you need equipment that boosts your scan range, and modules that buff your profile & sprint speed. Why aren't you playing a scout? Clearly you're emulating one. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 6355	Posted - 2015.02.25 20:08:00 - [44] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: 12 pellets Also, the shotgun shouldn't ever be hitting optimally beyond 10-12 meters, no matter the damage. I do think the shotgun could use a slight increase to range, along with a damage decrease, but only accompanying an increase to TTK in general. With the current TTK, there just isn't any room to adjust the SG. Any less damage and the shotgunner gets torn up. Any more and you get even more ridiculous OHKs. ...and yes, the Breach Shotgun is complete crap, and it bothers me to no end. +1 Couldn't have typed it better myself.
Sinboto Simmons Dead Man's Game RUST415 7758	Posted - 2015.02.25 20:10:00 - [45] - Quote They used to be longer ranged with (slightly) lower damage, but then the shotgun twins spanked a DEV and got um nerf hammer attention attention. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 2 Born of the Brutor tribe
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6931	Posted - 2015.02.25 20:14:00 - [46] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: These weapons are in such a silly and unhealthy place right now. They're only 'good' on high speed, low profile scouts that make up for the disadvantage of needing to touch someone with the weapon in order to kill them... They also work well with MN/GA Assaults. Should be in better shape if/when backpedal speed is reduced. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 15781	Posted - 2015.02.25 20:21:00 - [47] - Quote Honestly I'd rather keep the current shotguns as the Plasma Shotgun and introduce new variants: Combat Shotgun: Pump Action & Mid-Range Bolt/Rail Shotgun: Long Range & Reflex Sight Scrambler Shotgun: Charge To Fire? & Mid Range The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2255	Posted - 2015.02.25 21:24:00 - [48] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: 12 pellets Also, the shotgun shouldn't ever be hitting optimally beyond 10-12 meters, no matter the damage. I do think the shotgun could use a slight increase to range, along with a damage decrease, but only accompanying an increase to TTK in general. With the current TTK, there just isn't any room to adjust the SG. Any less damage and the shotgunner gets torn up. Any more and you get even more ridiculous OHKs. ...and yes, the Breach Shotgun is complete crap, and it bothers me to no end. +1 Couldn't have typed it better myself. I think maybe you could have, as his arguments aren't explained or substantiated they're just predicated on 'how I feel'. Balance is predicated upon the sublimation of 'feelings' in order to achieve actual numerically demonstrable 'equality'. Adipem Nothi wrote: They also work well with MN/GA Assaults. Should be in better shape if/when backpedal speed is reduced. In short they 'work well' in pubs, if you fit a ton of speed and damps and make suicidal charges at people... where if you fit with speed and damps, you could use any other gun more safely and still perform equivalently or better than shotguns. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
TritusX PH4NT0M5 336	Posted - 2015.02.25 22:49:00 - [49] - Quote I'd like to see anyone get hit by a SPAS-12 from 20 meters That scout you see on the kill board with 20 kills and 15 deaths
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 519	Posted - 2015.02.26 01:11:00 - [50] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Joel II X wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: 12 pellets Also, the shotgun shouldn't ever be hitting optimally beyond 10-12 meters, no matter the damage. I do think the shotgun could use a slight increase to range, along with a damage decrease, but only accompanying an increase to TTK in general. With the current TTK, there just isn't any room to adjust the SG. Any less damage and the shotgunner gets torn up. Any more and you get even more ridiculous OHKs. ...and yes, the Breach Shotgun is complete crap, and it bothers me to no end. +1 Couldn't have typed it better myself. I think maybe you could have, as his arguments aren't explained or substantiated they're just predicated on 'how I feel'. Balance is predicated upon the sublimation of 'feelings' in order to achieve actual numerically demonstrable 'equality'. So, if numbers are so incredibly important, where are yours? All I've seen from you are two DPS calculations for a STD SG, which is meaningless due to its huge damage variance, especially when you're talking about a shotgun that shoots over 20m. Considering the shotgun can get hits, misses, and headshots all at the same time in a single shot, your "numerical demonstration" is less applicable than a purely conceptual argument. Heimdallr69 posted that he took 1400 DMG in two shots from a weapon that does ~480 DMG per shot. That is because the weapon can do almost anything between 40 and 700 DMG with a single hit. Instead of looking at how much DPS it should deal, you need to look at the average number of shots needed to kill a particular class and the percentage of the "ideal" damage needs to be inflicted for a kill. DPS calculations don't go very far with a weapon that can potentially do 700 DMG in 0 seconds. It also seems you completely ignored my post explaining my full argument. In terms of numbers, it doesn't really have much less than you've provided. What it does have is a concept that has already been implemented and proven effective in actual practice, which I can't see how you could argue is less legitimate than some untested numbers, generated in a vacuum akin to a physics problem (aka a closed system that isn't even realistically possible). I haven't used any "feelings" as you put it, I explained concepts that have been used and shown to be functional and argued how those concepts create balance and variety in gameplay. Demonstrating it numerically isn't necessary when it is a known fact. Numbers in a vacuum are meaningless. A concept is needed to dictate where the numbers should be. The reason Dust is where it is now is because it doesn't seem to be moving in any particular direction. Something gets added, something else ends up overperforming. Instead of finding where we need to be and moving towards it, it just seems like someone says "X wouldn't be as OP/UP if it had more/less Y" and it gets tweaked until that one thing is working alright, when the real problem is much bigger. Right now, we don't need numbers, we need a concept and a direction to take it. The numbers come in when that concept is pursued.

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2260	Posted - 2015.02.26 06:06:00 - [51] - Quote I read your argument and provided a rebuttal as you wanted to straight nerf the shotgun, I want to alter it to be a more desireable weapon. Yes, I did two theoretical dps calculations, did you want me to do the +5% for adv or +10% for proto? For 1/2/3 damage mods? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 524	Posted - 2015.02.26 10:15:00 - [52] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: I read your argument and provided a rebuttal as you wanted to straight nerf the shotgun, I want to alter it to be a more desireable weapon. Yes, I did two theoretical dps calculations, did you want me to do the +5% for adv or +10% for proto? For 1/2/3 damage mods? Are you incapable of comparing dps to suit hp? Or incapable of commenting constructively when things don't line up? Or do you just want to rant about how you don't like my idea and shotguns just need to be nerfed so that no one uses them? I never said anything about nerfing shotguns, where did you get that from? The shotgun is my most used weapon, why would I want it to be useless? That being said, it's also in my interest to retain its playstyle; I don't want to use your "slug" shotgun (it would definitely make a good Assault Shotgun). I hate not being able to HP tank my shotgun fits as much as you do, but that end would be better reached by fixing the REAL problem of TTK. The end result of my entire plan would be MORE interest in shotguns on a variety of dropsuits, but my plan doesn't involve turning the shotgun into an entirely different weapon, which is completely unnecessary. I said I wanted a decrease in the SG's damage, as a part of an increase to overall TTK. I want shotguns to have fewer OHKs, but that also includes the necessity of returning TTK to a similar state to Chromosome, where everything took more time to die. At that time: (non-Breach) shotguns were rarely an OHK, a shotgunner didn't instantly die if their opponent retaliated (and the victim usually had a chance to regain control), Assaults could close distance through HP tanking (ferroscale plates and native armor reps would make this even more viable than it already had been), and the Breach SG actually had a legitimate use (doing damage comparable to ~700 per shot at proto in today's terms). As for your calculations, you didn't provide any indication of how the shotgun was supposed to act over the 20m optimal range. If you want some constructive feedback, here you go: Does it spread? Do you expect all 12 pellets to hit at 20m? Why does it even have pellets if it doesn't seem to have any spread? Why is this any better than the shotgun before? Sure it might solve the problem of why Assaults/Commandos would want to use the SG, but why would a Scout want to use your shotgun? If you can't answer that, then you have the exact same problem, just for a different class. You stated that you didn't like how SGs were only fully viable on speed tanked scouts (I don't entirely agree with this, but I do agree that it is definitely biased in that direction). You provided what you perceive as a solution to that problem, and I stated that I didn't think it was the correct solution. At your request, I provided my reasoning: that you were seeing a legitimate issue, but you weren't addressing the real problem. I said I didn't agree with your solution, then provided the reasoning you asked for. You have yet to address your issues with my actual reasoning, you have only complained about my method of presentation. Quote: Are you incapable of comparing dps to suit hp? Ignoring a huge part of my argument, once again. I clearly stated that DPS is often completely useless in relation to the shotgun, and that you ignore that fact by basing your calculations solely on DPS. DPS is a relevant value when calculating for most rifles, HMGs, SMGs, etc. For those weapons, you aim, fire, and it delivers a semi-constant stream that approaches the theoretical DPS. That isn't a particularly useful metric for the shotgun. If a STD SG gets a 50% headshot (~125% damage) on a suit with <600eHP, it will die in 0 seconds, meaning the calculated DPS is either undefined or infinite depending on how you approach the problem. Obviously, that result is mostly inoperable in a completely numerical analysis. If the suit has ~601eHP, it will take 0.7s to kill them; if a suit has ~1199eHP, it will take 0.7 seconds to kill them; if a suit has ~1201eHP, it will take 1.4s to kill them. This is why comparing DPS to HP isn't particularly useful for shotguns, if the RNG gods aren't in a particularly good mood, all of those calculations I just did become completely invalid and the results could change dramatically. For fully automatic weapons, a few stray bullets is rarely more than a difference of milliseconds, so calculated DPS remains relevant.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 15793	Posted - 2015.02.26 12:41:00 - [53] - Quote TritusX wrote: I'd like to see anyone get hit by a SPAS-12 from 20 meters That's what the KSG is for. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
demonkiller 12 Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 611	Posted - 2015.02.27 02:19:00 - [54] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: 12 pellets Also, the shotgun shouldn't ever be hitting optimally beyond 10-12 meters, no matter the damage. Why? Based on what reasoning? Are you aware of how shotguns work in real life where they shot quite well up to and beyond 30m. Thanks for the correction on the pellets though. Because shotguns are plasma weapons and the only shotgun that would come close to your idea of a shotgun would be a minmitar one which would have medium range, low damage and high RoF, something like a spas-12 firing beanbags
demonkiller 12 Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 611	Posted - 2015.02.27 02:20:00 - [55] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Why are shotguns so short range and high alpha? That's like asking why assault rifles shoot bullets. Assault rifles dont shoot bullets, they fire plasma
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17322	Posted - 2015.02.27 02:39:00 - [56] - Quote demonkiller 12 wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: Why are shotguns so short range and high alpha? That's like asking why assault rifles shoot bullets. Assault rifles dont shoot bullets, they fire plasma Nope I take that back. Apparently they function in a similar manner to shotgun by feeding the suspended plasma particles into a "cyclotron" that I suppose forms a magnetic containment field around it before firing it as a bolt of suspended plasma. I'm now wondering if that's what the charge part of Hybrid Charges refers to. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2260	Posted - 2015.02.27 02:52:00 - [57] - Quote True Adamance wrote: demonkiller 12 wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: Why are shotguns so short range and high alpha? That's like asking why assault rifles shoot bullets. Assault rifles dont shoot bullets, they fire plasma Nope I take that back. Apparently they function in a similar manner to shotgun by feeding the suspended plasma particles into a "cyclotron" that I suppose forms a magnetic containment field around it before firing it as a bolt of suspended plasma. I'm now wondering if that's what the charge part of Hybrid Charges refers to. The hybrid charge is the thing that they're converting into plasma (in the case of gallente blaster weapons), caldari use the same things except just hyper-accelerate them as solid-state slugs. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Zindorak Nyain Chan 1717	Posted - 2015.02.27 02:58:00 - [58] - Quote Shotguns are fine. I don't see why the need a change Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17322	Posted - 2015.02.27 03:09:00 - [59] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: The hybrid charge is the thing that they're converting into plasma (in the case of gallente blaster weapons), caldari use the same things except just hyper-accelerate them as solid-state slugs. I'd assume as small bolt shaped kinetic energy penetrators in the case of Caldari. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9692	Posted - 2015.02.27 03:38:00 - [60] - Quote True Adamance wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: The hybrid charge is the thing that they're converting into plasma (in the case of gallente blaster weapons), caldari use the same things except just hyper-accelerate them as solid-state slugs. I'd assume as small bolt shaped kinetic energy penetrators in the case of Caldari. Wait, so like a bullet with powder in it to explain it better. The Gallente use the bullet to sustain the powder until the powder can be properly processed, charged and emitted from the weapon? The Caldari use the powder in the bullet to ignite it and propel the bullet with the ignition from the powder? *As long as 4/5 (80%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP*



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