DUST Search - Proof that scouts are OP

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Fox Gaden wrote:

Scouts are fine. Nova Knives, Shotguns, and Remote Explosives are all counters to HMG Sentinels.

The problem is that Assault suits do not have an advantage against Scouts. For proper Rock/Paper/Scissors balance the Assault suit should have as much of an advantage over the Scout as the HMG Sentinel has over the Assault suit.

o/ Fox

You're almost always right, but less so in this case. Just skilled into three Assaults after having run Scout exclusively since Beta. I am at no disadvantage against Scouts in AM, MN or GA Assault. In fact, fitting the latter two as Scouts (damps, biotics, precision, scanner) make for better Scouts than any Scout. I need only fit one precision amp and Falloff picks up any would-be assassins; I don't always catch them, but I'm certainly not at a disadvantage against them (I find the opposite true).

Further, I've far better odds against Heavies in my "Heavy Scouts" than I ever had in a Scout suit.

Twice the HP, similar speed/stamina, comparable profile/scans.
The only things missing are the lolCloak and REs.

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HOLY PERFECTION OUTCAST MERCS RISE of LEGION 31	Posted - 2015.02.20 06:56:00 - [1] - Quote Go to link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNhlRDqcRsY *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens 1081	Posted - 2015.02.20 07:27:00 - [2] - Quote This is more proof that shotguns and REs need to be looked at. Changes to Damage mods!
Izlare Lenix Pub Stars 1265	Posted - 2015.02.20 07:41:00 - [3] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: This is more proof that shotguns and REs need to be looked at. ^ this. Nova knives can't do the type of kills SGs can. Novas have to be charged and SGs have almost 5x the range. Also, REs can be tossed too far, too easily. Take away SGs and REs and nobody would say scouts are OP. SGs and REs seriously need to be looked into, but we all know CCP is too busy changing dropsuit colors to actually look into game balance. The only real truth in history is that it was bloody.
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens 1081	Posted - 2015.02.20 07:59:00 - [4] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: This is more proof that shotguns and REs need to be looked at. ^ this. Nova knives can't do the type of kills SGs can. Novas have to be charged and SGs have almost 5x the range. Also, REs can be tossed too far, too easily. Take away SGs and REs and nobody would say scouts are OP. SGs and REs seriously need to be looked into, but we all know CCP is too busy changing dropsuit colors to actually look into game balance. Proposed fixes? Tone down the shotgun's ROF a little. A high alpha weapon like that should not be able to shoot that fast. In exception from Bon's shotgun. For RE's? Rework the timer. It was supposed to be 5 seconds but for some reason they are still 2.5 seconds and nerf their throwing range. Changes to Damage mods!
al nize mk2 No Skillz inc. 321	Posted - 2015.02.20 10:39:00 - [5] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Go to link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNhlRDqcRsY Great video, thank you. But Scouts are not OP, Heavies are. GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 947	Posted - 2015.02.20 10:55:00 - [6] - Quote I don't see how exactly this shows scouts are OP. That map is great for scouts so they have an innate advantage on it, as well as heavies, as do most maps with tight corners and winding walkways. He also dies a lot, which is normal since he was in the line of fire many times - another bad thing for a scout. The throwing of remote explosives could become a problem, because the timer is definitely not 5 seconds, but at the moment I think it provides a good hard counter to heavies, which seem to everywhere nowadays, and I believe their HMG will be in line for a small nerf come next patch.
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4038	Posted - 2015.02.20 11:09:00 - [7] - Quote Try to pass in the exact same stream of bulletts and get rekt twice as fast, the rest is just RE. Some have luck, some have money, trading is not a crime. Minmatar omni-merc
Grease Spillett Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 752	Posted - 2015.02.20 11:31:00 - [8] - Quote I think this is proof he who lags not in pc is god mode. Next time you see me, bring more friends. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 6276	Posted - 2015.02.20 12:00:00 - [9] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: This is more proof that shotguns and REs need to be looked at. ^ this. Nova knives can't do the type of kills SGs can. Novas have to be charged and SGs have almost 5x the range. Also, REs can be tossed too far, too easily. Take away SGs and REs and nobody would say scouts are OP. SGs and REs seriously need to be looked into, but we all know CCP is too busy changing dropsuit colors to actually look into game balance. People complain that everything is OP. It's not the SG and REs, though. You can put that on a Commando and people would just shrug it off and say something else rather than OP. Also, knives'absolute range is 2.5m. Shotgun's optimal is 5m. I wouldn't amount for its effective range since it has a high drop after that. It's the combination that's OP because a scout makes it easier to use them to their full potential by avoiding scans.
al nize mk2 No Skillz inc. 322	Posted - 2015.02.20 12:04:00 - [10] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Also, knives'absolute range is 2.5m. Shotgun's optimal is 5m. I wouldn't amount for its effective range since it has a high drop after that. It's the combination that's OP because a scout makes it easier to use them to their full potential by avoiding scans. and the minmatar bonus is an awesome incentive to go knifey. knives are underrated in Dust and I'd like to see more stabbing slashing weapons like swords and spears. and maybe the crybaby heavies could have big spiky balls to swing around ahem... GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥

Buwaro Draemon WarRavens 1082	Posted - 2015.02.20 12:53:00 - [11] - Quote al nize mk2 wrote: Joel II X wrote: Also, knives'absolute range is 2.5m. Shotgun's optimal is 5m. I wouldn't amount for its effective range since it has a high drop after that. It's the combination that's OP because a scout makes it easier to use them to their full potential by avoiding scans. and the minmatar bonus is an awesome incentive to go knifey. knives are underrated in Dust and I'd like to see more stabbing slashing weapons like swords and spears. and maybe the crybaby heavies could have big spiky balls to swing around ahem... Why the hell would futuristic warfare have battles of swords and spears when there are a shitton of bullets and explosions going all around them? Don't get me wrong, Nova Knifes are extremely fun to play and challenging, but their play style holds no place in Dust. Especially if maps and battles get bigger. From my stand point, The only difference I see in running a speed tanked MinScout with knifes and a CoD player with Marathon and Lightweight as perks with the ballistic knife (Black Ops 2) is that in one you have to pay in game currency every time you die. Other than that, it is the same playstyle. Rum around hoping nobody sees you and slash enemies from behind. Get spotted? Run out of there and out of enemy sights as fast as you can. Why am I saying this? Because I want Dust to evolve into the massive battle, tactical shooter it was said to be rather than free-to-play twitch shooter. Which is what we basically have now. Changes to Damage mods!
Izlare Lenix Pub Stars 1266	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:04:00 - [12] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: This is more proof that shotguns and REs need to be looked at. ^ this. Nova knives can't do the type of kills SGs can. Novas have to be charged and SGs have almost 5x the range. Also, REs can be tossed too far, too easily. Take away SGs and REs and nobody would say scouts are OP. SGs and REs seriously need to be looked into, but we all know CCP is too busy changing dropsuit colors to actually look into game balance. People complain that everything is OP. It's not the SG and REs, though. You can put that on a Commando and people would just shrug it off and say something else rather than OP. Also, knives'absolute range is 2.5m. Shotgun's optimal is 5m. I wouldn't amount for its effective range since it has a high drop after that. It's the combination that's OP because a scout makes it easier to use them to their full potential by avoiding scans. My pro scout has been 1 shoot by SG at 11m many, many times. Knives can not do that. You also can't dance, jump or strafe with knives like you can with a SG since charging knives slows your movement. My point is knives are probably the most powerful weapon in Dust since you can one swipe most suits. However they are also the most balanced because of the limited range, charge up time and increased vulnerability when charging and limited to walking speed. SGs and REs have none of these draw backs on any suit and their limited range is nullified by scout speed. Knives are the only high alpha weapon with multiple negatives that give them balance. SGs and REs only have limited range as a balancing factor (yet still much farther than knives) which is why when you use SGs and REs in a scout, they are not balanced at all. SG ROF needs to be reduced and REs should have more of an animation and less throwing range. The only real truth in history is that it was bloody.
JUPA SACH R34L T4LK 368	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:14:00 - [13] - Quote man, this community cries for everything Karma
Pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1592	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:17:00 - [14] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: This is more proof that shotguns and REs need to be looked at. This. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6780	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:20:00 - [15] - Quote Try that shotgun on a MN Assault. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5981	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:21:00 - [16] - Quote Scouts are fine. Nova Knives, Shotguns, and Remote Explosives are all counters to HMG Sentinels. The problem is that Assault suits do not have an advantage against Scouts. For proper Rock/Paper/Scissors balance the Assault suit should have as much of an advantage over the Scout as the HMG Sentinel has over the Assault suit. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6780	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:22:00 - [17] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: 1. SGs and REs have none of these draw backs on any suit and their limited range is nullified by scout speed. 2. Knives are the only high alpha weapon with multiple negatives that give them balance. SGs and REs only have limited range as a balancing factor (yet still much farther than knives) which is why when you use SGs and REs in a scout, they are not balanced at all. 3. SG ROF needs to be reduced and REs should have more of an animation and less throwing range. 1. Assault Speed is now more or less equal to Scout Speed. 2. Whether you believe it or not, Shotguns have a very real Optimal Range of 5 meters. 3. So a weapon with a 5m range should have lower DPS than a Fine Rifle? Seems legit. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6780	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:26:00 - [18] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Scouts are fine. Nova Knives, Shotguns, and Remote Explosives are all counters to HMG Sentinels. The problem is that Assault suits do not have an advantage against Scouts. For proper Rock/Paper/Scissors balance the Assault suit should have as much of an advantage over the Scout as the HMG Sentinel has over the Assault suit. o/ Fox You're almost always right, but less so in this case. Just skilled into three Assaults after having run Scout exclusively since Beta. I am at no disadvantage against Scouts in AM, MN or GA Assault; in fact, fitting the latter two as Scouts (damps, biotics, precision) make for better Scouts than any Scout. Further, I've far better odds against Heavies in my Heavy Scouts than I ever had in a Scout suit. > Twice the HP, similar speed, comparable profile and scans. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 1495	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:31:00 - [19] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: Minja playstyle doesn't belong in a shooter Why am I saying this? Because I want Dust to evolve into the massive battle, tactical shooter it was said to be rather than free-to-play twitch shooter. Which is what we basically have now. And infiltration and assassination have no place in either of these things why?
Doyle Reese Ready to Play 536	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:33:00 - [20] - Quote honestly, REs are dumb yes, but it's because the animation doesn't show where the RE will end up, it just sort of teleports there. THAT's what makes RE stupid

IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 1495	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:35:00 - [21] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Scouts are fine. Nova Knives, Shotguns, and Remote Explosives are all counters to HMG Sentinels. The problem is that Assault suits do not have an advantage against Scouts. For proper Rock/Paper/Scissors balance the Assault suit should have as much of an advantage over the Scout as the HMG Sentinel has over the Assault suit. o/ Fox You're almost always right, but less so in this case. Just skilled into three Assaults after having run Scout exclusively since Beta. I am at no disadvantage against Scouts in AM, MN or GA Assault. In fact, fitting the latter two as Scouts (damps, biotics, precision, scanner) make for better Scouts than any Scout. I need only fit one precision amp and Falloff picks up any would-be assassins; I don't always catch them, but I'm certainly not at a disadvantage against them (I find the opposite true). Further, I've far better odds against Heavies in my "Heavy Scouts" than I ever had in a Scout suit. Twice the HP, similar speed/stamina, comparable profile/scans. The only things missing are the lolCloak and REs. Yeah I can run around in an ADV Gal Assault at 9.18m/s, 27 / 24 precision / profile and ~600 HP. With more CPU / PG flexibility for the rest.
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 462	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:35:00 - [22] - Quote I've seen minmitar assault with SG and RE's do just as good as that video with the scout
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 1796	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:38:00 - [23] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: al nize mk2 wrote: Joel II X wrote: Also, knives'absolute range is 2.5m. Shotgun's optimal is 5m. I wouldn't amount for its effective range since it has a high drop after that. It's the combination that's OP because a scout makes it easier to use them to their full potential by avoiding scans. and the minmatar bonus is an awesome incentive to go knifey. knives are underrated in Dust and I'd like to see more stabbing slashing weapons like swords and spears. and maybe the crybaby heavies could have big spiky balls to swing around ahem... Why the hell would futuristic warfare have battles of swords and spears when there are a shitton of bullets and explosions going all around them? I don't know, why do people in the 21st century use knives? Guns were invented over 1000 years ago, why do we still use these stupid, obsolete bladed weapons? It's science fiction, man. Why don't they just use invisible nanorobots to kill soldiers? Because that would make for boring gameplay. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1790	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:41:00 - [24] - Quote when will we stop being surprised at this.... OMG!! that -300hp Light Frame used dirty tactics to kill me!!! they should Git Gud and go toe-toe with suits w/3x their hp The Scout imo, is meant to be and needed as an Assassin.. fast, deadly but weak in a fire-fight If CCP want anything less form it, just do us a favour and remove the suit from gameplay.. No one likes to be insta-glibbed... and always point the finger at Scouts.. Yet a Scout can be insta-glibbed by crossfire of most Dust weapons, nevermind being shot directly so it's really a case of kill or be killed on both sides of a fight with a scout .. Shotguns?? nasty enough but have to get in suicide range.. I would not argue some changes here, but the effect will be the same Blap = dead, Blap Blap = dead, and mercs will still complain Assaults and Commandos are already the counter, I sh!t my pants when facing either The issue here is, I run actual 'Scout' fits, not 600hp+ sh!t bricks tanked fits So to balance Scouts, make Ewar a viable choice and limit dual tanking = dead scouts for everyone
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1790	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:44:00 - [25] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: al nize mk2 wrote: Joel II X wrote: Also, knives'absolute range is 2.5m. Shotgun's optimal is 5m. I wouldn't amount for its effective range since it has a high drop after that. It's the combination that's OP because a scout makes it easier to use them to their full potential by avoiding scans. and the minmatar bonus is an awesome incentive to go knifey. knives are underrated in Dust and I'd like to see more stabbing slashing weapons like swords and spears. and maybe the crybaby heavies could have big spiky balls to swing around ahem... Why the hell would futuristic warfare have battles of swords and spears when there are a shitton of bullets and explosions going all around them? I don't know, why do people in the 21st century use knives? Guns were invented over 1000 years ago, why do we still use these stupid, obsolete bladed weapons? It's science fiction, man. Why don't they just use invisible nanorobots to kill soldiers? Because that would make for boring gameplay. I use my super heated Nova Knives, to cut through your suit can carve a hole in your chest It may be a knife, which would be useless in Dust.. But why would I use Knives packing more heat than a Volcano vs advanced suit technology?? yeah, thats why
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3235	Posted - 2015.02.20 14:14:00 - [26] - Quote Taking nothing away from my friends in Forsaken Empire, but I'm not sure we should be judging the efficacy of scouts when going up against them. Jake's a beast, and has been for a long time, but I'd like to see how he does against one of the better teams....as I doubt he'd put up 38 kills.
JAKE REDBLOOD T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 32	Posted - 2015.02.20 14:23:00 - [27] - Quote Expanding on what Leadfoot said, it was against forsaken empire... they probably have the worst heavies in pc..like ever! Besides in a scout it is all about how you think, situational awareness is what's op. If I can chuck a re on five people whilst they're looking the other way and not paying no attention to what's going on behind them, quite honestly they deserve to die. If a good heavy sees me from 15m* I'm dead..other wise they're in my optimal, i hold no responcibility for what happens next! :) It's funny because most people that complain about scouts have never actually used one themselves, you think you can take me? Hit me up! I'll cue against ya, reck yo ass and put it on YouTube! o7 My YouTube Channel
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3235	Posted - 2015.02.20 14:28:00 - [28] - Quote I also don't think I saw a scanner the entire time. That's just not good strategy, IMO, particularly when going up against 3rdRock....as it would both locate their heavies and assault suits, and also force Jake and the other scouts to dampen up and become even more squishy.
JAKE REDBLOOD T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 32	Posted - 2015.02.20 14:50:00 - [29] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I also don't think I saw a scanner the entire time. That's just not good strategy, IMO, particularly when going up against 3rdRock....as it would both locate their heavies and assault suits, and also force Jake and the other scouts to dampen up and become even more squishy. And I'll take your challenge, Jake, but I'm not dumb enough to try to go up against you in a scout suit with a shotgun. :) lol yeah, i always have one damp and in pc I'm normally forced to go at least two or three, but not fighting them guys ;) My YouTube Channel
altair Dovahkiin Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2015.02.20 16:17:00 - [30] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Go to link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNhlRDqcRsY sorry but all I see is a scout doing his job and people that do not know how to use heavies Bravery doesn't mean you aren't scared. It means you go anyway



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