DUST Search - Proof that scouts are OP

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Fox Gaden wrote:

Scouts are fine. Nova Knives, Shotguns, and Remote Explosives are all counters to HMG Sentinels.

The problem is that Assault suits do not have an advantage against Scouts. For proper Rock/Paper/Scissors balance the Assault suit should have as much of an advantage over the Scout as the HMG Sentinel has over the Assault suit.

o/ Fox

You're almost always right, but less so in this case. Just skilled into three Assaults after having run Scout exclusively since Beta. I am at no disadvantage against Scouts in AM, MN or GA Assault. I need only fit one precision amp and Falloff picks up any would-be assassins; I don't always catch them, but I'm certainly not at a disadvantage against them (I find the opposite true). In fact, fitting the latter two like Scouts (ewar, biotics, scanner) make for better Scouts than any Scout. I've far better odds against Heavies in my "Super Scout Suits" than I ever had in a Scout suit. Examples:

Minmatar Assault
Gallente Assault

Well over 200% the HP, comparable speed/stamina, equivalent scans. The only things missing are the lolCloak and REs. Swap the brick for damps, and you've got 24dB profile and still twice the HP of similarly fit Scout. If you haven't yet done so, Fox, I highly recommend skilling into MN Assault and seeing this firsthand. There is no better Scout than the MN Assault Scout.

Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

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HOLY PERFECTION OUTCAST MERCS RISE of LEGION 32	Posted - 2015.02.20 16:19:00 - [31] - Quote altair Dovahkiin wrote: HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Go to link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNhlRDqcRsY sorry but all I see is a scout doing his job and people that do not know how to use heavies Dude the scouts "job " is to hack objectives. As well as provide reconisions, not to slay 1300 armor heavys with three shots. *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6789	Posted - 2015.02.20 16:32:00 - [32] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Dude the scouts "job " is to hack objectives. As well as provide reconisions, not to slay 1300 armor heavys with three shots. I beg to differ. Please explain: * Nova Knives * bad Scout passive scans * passive scans w/out WP * GA Logi bonus * the math behind 3-shotting 1,300 armor Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5987	Posted - 2015.02.20 16:38:00 - [33] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Scouts are fine. Nova Knives, Shotguns, and Remote Explosives are all counters to HMG Sentinels. The problem is that Assault suits do not have an advantage against Scouts. For proper Rock/Paper/Scissors balance the Assault suit should have as much of an advantage over the Scout as the HMG Sentinel has over the Assault suit. o/ Fox You're almost always right, but less so in this case. Just skilled into three Assaults after having run Scout exclusively since Beta. I am at no disadvantage against Scouts in AM, MN or GA Assault. I need only fit one precision amp and Falloff picks up any would-be assassins; I don't always catch them, but I'm certainly not at a disadvantage against them (I find the opposite true). In fact, fitting the latter two like Scouts (ewar, biotics, scanner) make for better Scouts than any Scout. I've far better odds against Heavies in my "Super Scout Suits" than I ever had in a Scout suit. Examples: Minmatar Assault Gallente Assault Well over 200% the HP, comparable speed/stamina, equivalent scans. The only things missing are the lolCloak and REs. Swap the brick for damps, and you've got 24dB profile and still twice the HP of similarly fit Scout. If you haven't yet done so, Fox, I highly recommend skilling into MN Assault and seeing this firsthand. There is no better Scout than the MN Assault Scout. Perhaps Assault Suits have been buffed enough to do the job already, and it is simply now a matter of training the users to operate them properly. It would not be the first time that imbalance was a matter of education rather than stats. When they fixed hit detection and added Aim Assist back in it took the larger DUST community over nine months to learn to strafe again. So, maybe all we need is more experienced Scouts running Assault suits to show the dedicated Assault players how it is done. As to the Min Assault I am fully skilled into that suit, and fully aware of its abilities, but I found that the better I got at playing Min Assault the worse I was getting at HMG Sentinel, so a want back to being a dedicated Sentinel so I would not lose my edge. (It was a dual edge to begin with.) With my slow reaction time the Sentinel is a better fit for me than the faster suits. I am more of a Tortoise than a Hare. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Funky Pshyco Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 31	Posted - 2015.02.20 16:44:00 - [34] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: altair Dovahkiin wrote: HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Go to link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNhlRDqcRsY sorry but all I see is a scout doing his job and people that do not know how to use heavies Dude the scouts "job " is to hack objectives. As well as provide reconisions, not to slay 1300 armor heavys with three shots. That's wrong. You can use boundless remote explosives if you want to kill heavys dude..
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6790	Posted - 2015.02.20 16:52:00 - [35] - Quote @ Fox My gut feeling is that we went a 'bit too far with Scout nerfs and a 'bit too far with Assault buffs. Rattati has hinted at upcoming changes to backpedal speed; this could bring Assault v Scout closer to balance. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
altair Dovahkiin Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2015.02.20 16:53:00 - [36] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: altair Dovahkiin wrote: HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Go to link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNhlRDqcRsY sorry but all I see is a scout doing his job and people that do not know how to use heavies Dude the scouts "job " is to hack objectives. As well as provide reconisions, not to slay 1300 armor heavys with three shots. also to get rid of uplinks and it is every players job to stop the enemies advance any way you can. at 3:46 he attack to two heavies TWO HEAVIES!! that do not now how to use them . is that his fault NO and heavies are easy mode. Bravery doesn't mean you aren't scared. It means you go anyway
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 2302	Posted - 2015.02.20 16:54:00 - [37] - Quote Minassaults running shotguns are worse. Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3242	Posted - 2015.02.20 17:04:00 - [38] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Minassaults running shotguns are worse. Truth. They tank enough HP that it makes killing them before they close the gap and kill you even harder than a scout. With a scout, you can often backpeddle and kill them, with a Min Assault that becomes much harder.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6793	Posted - 2015.02.20 17:15:00 - [39] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Minassaults running shotguns are worse. MN Assault absolutely makes for a better shotgunner, but he has higher odds of being scanned down before getting into range. He needs at least 2 KinCats to shotgun, and he needs 3 damps to beat competitive scans. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 205	Posted - 2015.02.20 17:19:00 - [40] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: This is more proof that shotguns and REs need to be looked at. ^ this. Nova knives can't do the type of kills SGs can. Novas have to be charged and SGs have almost 5x the range. Also, REs can be tossed too far, too easily. Take away SGs and REs and nobody would say scouts are OP. SGs and REs seriously need to be looked into, but we all know CCP is too busy changing dropsuit colors to actually look into game balance. People complain that everything is OP. It's not the SG and REs, though. You can put that on a Commando and people would just shrug it off and say something else rather than OP. Also, knives'absolute range is 2.5m. Shotgun's optimal is 5m. I wouldn't amount for its effective range since it has a high drop after that. It's the combination that's OP because a scout makes it easier to use them to their full potential by avoiding scans. Lol 5m, ive been killed at 20m by a sg and u had a good amount of hp.

Boll Spirit Iberica Racing Team 47	Posted - 2015.02.20 17:20:00 - [41] - Quote I don-¦t know why people is always complaining about scouts , what we see in the vid is an excellente guy running a scout who is doing well his work . He-¦s playing Planetary Conquer in a CQC map , special dedicated to heavies and scouts, so how is he supposed to play ? specially in a map where a team use full squads of heavies , the strategy force you to use the shootgun // nova and boundless remotes . If you are not happy about this , do not keep complaining about my brothers scouts and use a logi gal with scanners ( this will force a gallente scout to use at least 3 complex dampeners, and you-¦ll be able to detect the others racial scouts ). I think most of you will erase the scout role from the game , but thinking deeply , this game won-¦t be funny anymore ...
WARRIOR GAC Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION 361	Posted - 2015.02.20 17:31:00 - [42] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Go to link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNhlRDqcRsY Nope, he is a good shotgunner. *Grupo de Asalto Chacal*
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 7899	Posted - 2015.02.20 17:36:00 - [43] - Quote Doyle Reese wrote: honestly, REs are dumb yes, but it's because the animation doesn't show where the RE will end up, it just sort of teleports there. THAT's what makes RE stupid This and the timer seemingly not being set to 5 seconds like it was supposed to are the only legit complaints about REs I can see. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6797	Posted - 2015.02.20 17:46:00 - [44] - Quote maluble wrote: Lol 5m, ive been killed at 20m by a sg and u had a good amount of hp. Not since Chrome. Grab a shotgun and point it at stationary target. Walk backwards and watch your efficiency readout. Observe what happens at 5m, and keep an eye on that readout out to 20m. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 443	Posted - 2015.02.20 17:52:00 - [45] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Go to link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNhlRDqcRsY There were a ton more HMG kills in the killfeed than shotgun kills, just because you watched a video of one of our best slayers running a shotgun/RE fit doesnt mean its OP. Shotgun has some serious drawbacks to it, I dont think it in itself is overpowered. REs are more debateable and in their current state I think they are pretty overpowered, but could be balanced alot better if they would reduce the distance they can be thrown or reduced the damage so it took more of them to kill someone.
HOLY PERFECTION OUTCAST MERCS RISE of LEGION 33	Posted - 2015.02.20 17:59:00 - [46] - Quote doesn't take skil to use shotguns, just point and shoot.So no such thing as best shotgunner, but noce try. *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*
Pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1596	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:02:00 - [47] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: doesn't take skil to use shotguns, just point and shoot. Sorry but this is really really stupid. fix it in "doesn't take skill to use RE"...but really, that was so stupid! One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Nos Nothi 2564	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:10:00 - [48] - Quote A guy that knows his role is OP. You guys are hilariously stupid, and have been so about this 'issue' foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I dont give a damn anymore. Im glad i dont hang out here. Recon is an Art Min Scout best Chef in New Eden, Gal Scout best Tour-Guide PSN Sil4ntChaozz/PROfits Silent Chaozz
altair Dovahkiin Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:16:00 - [49] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: doesn't take skil to use shotguns, just point and shoot.So no such thing as best shotgunner, but noce try. that just proves you have never done it. shotgun are harder then HMG I do both HMG is easy mode Bravery doesn't mean you aren't scared. It means you go anyway
VAHZZ 511	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:32:00 - [50] - Quote I need to look into this... ~ Proud Sniper Scout

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11029	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:50:00 - [51] - Quote First off, I'm glad I'm finally able to log into the forums to say this. 1. The video you posted is NOT proof that scouts are OP. The match was a PC battle which demands competitive players and that all available tools be used however the players sees fit in order to win. PC is not like a public match where you just fight for laughs and giggles. You lose very expensive gear in these matches and you are pitted against players who are also very much likely running all proto or at least most of the time. I know it's a PC battle just by looking at the clone count. 2. The player died a lot in a scout suit. 3. He is a skilled scout as he was taking full advantage of the environment which provides a lot of cover for him but it also means he had to deal with heavies with HMGs which appeared to be everywhere in that Orbital Artillery Outpost. Therefore he had to really be on his toes and stay focused in order to survive. 4. In regarding to dealing so much alpha damage from a scout, that was because the guy was often using remote explosives in conjunction with a shotgun and other players shooting at his targets. Also, the vast majority of the kills I have seen on that video clearly took far more than just a single shot per heavy. The video you provided is proof of that. The players that got killed in one shot were mostly assaults and/or scouts. 5. The Minmatar scout suit has a built-in knife bonus that enables a proto-knife user to OHK most heavies but that alone requires a massive amount of skill to use. So try telling me again why a scout should only be doing non-combat stuff. 6. I saw the guy also die to heavies. PS: I have tried both hmgs and shot guns recently. The hmg seems easier to use. I couldn't hit the broad side of a heavy with a shotgun. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
JAKE REDBLOOD T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 34	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:11:00 - [52] - Quote You guys are going to love the reup ;) My YouTube Channel
HOLY PERFECTION OUTCAST MERCS RISE of LEGION 33	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:22:00 - [53] - Quote Thanks for the Video for proof, mabye CCP will open their eyes now. *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*
JAKE REDBLOOD T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 34	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:28:00 - [54] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Thanks for the Video for proof, mabye CCP will open their eyes now. Yeah they might need too ban me, I'm quite op My YouTube Channel
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 1505	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:29:00 - [55] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: doesn't take skil to use shotguns, just point and shoot.So no such thing as best shotgunner, but noce try. You just totally lost whatever credibility you had left with this statement. Now thinking 0 / 10
HOLY PERFECTION OUTCAST MERCS RISE of LEGION 33	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:32:00 - [56] - Quote JAKE REDBLOOD wrote: HOLY PERFECTION wrote: Thanks for the Video for proof, mabye CCP will open their eyes now. Yeah they might need too ban me, I'm quite op NO.. funny though. You did a "good" job. But a scout should not kill 1300 armor heavys in two to three shots. *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*
JAKE REDBLOOD T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 35	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:33:00 - [57] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: doesn't take skil to use shotguns, just point and shoot.So no such thing as best shotgunner, but noce try. LOL! What does a heavy do? My YouTube Channel
HOLY PERFECTION OUTCAST MERCS RISE of LEGION 33	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:36:00 - [58] - Quote JAKE REDBLOOD wrote: HOLY PERFECTION wrote: doesn't take skil to use shotguns, just point and shoot.So no such thing as best shotgunner, but noce try. LOL! What does a heavy do? HAHAHAH.. their job is to KILL, mainly front entrances to make way for scouts to hack ETC. *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Nos Nothi 2564	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:36:00 - [59] - Quote JAKE REDBLOOD wrote: HOLY PERFECTION wrote: doesn't take skil to use shotguns, just point and shoot.So no such thing as best shotgunner, but noce try. LOL! What does a heavy do? I would normally say dont argue with a not smart person but since he used your video as 'proof' (lol)...... Recon is an Art Min Scout best Chef in New Eden, Gal Scout best Tour-Guide Scout haven't been OP since 1.8
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 459	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:43:00 - [60] - Quote Grease Spillett wrote: I think this is proof he who lags not in pc is god mode. Yep, those guys were moving normal speed and not even seeing and tracking him. Swap this around and he could be on a heavy and do the same thing. Lag though, is why scouts are OP due to taking advantage of the delay in loading to get high alpha. Not to mention the game changing mechanics toward a simple run around in circles and shoot, shoot, shoot arena rumble. See how he backed up casually as he's getting shot? Yeah, on my system It wouldn't register for over a second later and I'd be dead. I have to move much quicker than that which is impossible due to mechanics. There's no module to back up any faster. Death is a serious business. So is running a shoddy, half-baked game company.



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