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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
907
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Posted - 2015.01.16 16:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:swarms are a problem (to armor tanked vehicles) but actually there are bigger issues to solve first I wholeheartedly agree with you that there are bigger problems than swarms.
A damage amped pro railgun kills pretty much all DS in 2-3 shots unless we're talking about a dual-hardened Myron. That's about 2 seconds from first impact to destruction. I would much appreciate if during the HAV bring back initiative the railgun's alpha would be toned down a bit while keeping long term DPS stable. Since for HAV-vs-HAV fights only long term DPS is used this wouldn't be a nerf at all - at least that's what I think from a DS pilot with a limited HAV experience. |
DUST Fiend
duna corp
15561
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Posted - 2015.01.16 16:39:00 -
[32] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Jack McReady wrote:swarms are a problem (to armor tanked vehicles) but actually there are bigger issues to solve first I wholeheartedly agree with you that there are bigger problems than swarms. A damage amped pro railgun kills pretty much all DS in 2-3 shots unless we're talking about a dual-hardened Myron. That's about 2 seconds from first impact to destruction. I would much appreciate if during the HAV bring back initiative the railgun's alpha would be toned down a bit while keeping long term DPS stable. Since for HAV-vs-HAV fights only long term DPS is used this wouldn't be a nerf at all - at least that's what I think from a DS pilot with a limited HAV experience. I agree with railgun alpha being an issue, but thats a much bigger issue for a different topic that isnt easily addressed. Incoming missile notification is standard fare for things in the air, just something to say hey, theres a bunch of boom stuff auto tracking you . This still gives power to the smart swarmer who waits for the right time to strike, while not sentencing a pilot to death just because some random dude tossed auto track missiles into the air as you flew by, but you have literally no way of knowing that.
Unlike forge guns, evasive maneuvers actually INCREASE your chances of getting hit by swarms, and even running away will often leave you getting hit because swarms have higher top speed than you do. So, a tiny indicator that something is in the air is a standard and much needed feature.
My YouTube (currently inactive)
Homeless Dropship Enthusiast
"See You Space Cowboy"
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
5406
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Posted - 2015.01.16 16:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Swarms have a higher top speed because it was indeed so easy for dropships to escape them, that they were not relevant.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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DUST Fiend
duna corp
15561
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Posted - 2015.01.16 16:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Swarms have a higher top speed because it was indeed so easy for dropships to escape them, that they were not relevant. Im well aware how swarms were. Just because something WAS under performing in the past, is NOT an excuse for it to over perform in the present.
Im not asking for a single nerf or change to swarm mechanics, just a way for us to know we're being followed by auto track missiles that track for a VERY long time.
My YouTube (currently inactive)
Homeless Dropship Enthusiast
"See You Space Cowboy"
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
5406
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Posted - 2015.01.16 16:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
It is not overperforming. The fact that you are no longer invincible means it is working as intended.
I would not actually be opposite to a warning if it was possible. Though I would guess something like vehicles being able to scan AV weapon holders from a larger distance or something would be easier to implement, if I had to take a guess. Though that, I imagine, would probably be pretty OP.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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IZI doro
Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V.
40
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Posted - 2015.01.16 17:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
If anything, just an audible tone to note that homing warheads are tracking and in proximity would suffice. If I recall correctly, there used to be a "locked on tone" for swarms that have been launched and currently tracking, but it was removed.
Now that swarms are somewhat more effective, shouldn't they bring that "tone" back? Honestly, I'd rather have any vehicle scurry off for a moment from being tracked than actually get the vehicle destruction points. The faster the threat is removed, the less lives are lost.
Cable & Internetworking Technician in-training
Studying for the CompTIA A+, N+, and CCNA
Tips 'n Tricks appreciated!
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
5406
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Posted - 2015.01.16 17:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
IZI doro wrote:If anything, just an audible tone to note that homing warheads are tracking and in proximity would suffice. If I recall correctly, there used to be a "locked on tone" for swarms that have been launched and currently tracking, but it was removed.
Now that swarms are somewhat more effective, shouldn't they bring that "tone" back? Honestly, I'd rather have any vehicle scurry off for a moment from being tracked than actually get the vehicle destruction points. The faster the threat is removed, the less lives are lost.
I thought there used to be as well. But I was told by several players and a couple devs that I was wrong.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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wiseguy12
Sector Combat Solutions and Logistics
99
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Posted - 2015.01.16 17:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
Swarms hard to evade an nd everyone has them. A single minmando can kill any vehicle easily. It takes 3swarms to down any shield dropship. And look at how long it takes to shoot them, not long huh. Add a counter measure slot that when used does something to disrupt average. It has to resupplied at supply depot.
Pro Caldari assault and sentinel.
Proto magsec, Forgegun, sniper, HMG, and Rail Rifle
Onuoto Uakan
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6484
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Posted - 2015.01.16 17:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
I don't think soraya understands that a warning isn't going to mean squat if the swarm launcher is directly below you.
If you ever see atiim in the killfeed and you're in a dropship?
He's underneath you to the aft, locking your belly.
Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6484
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Posted - 2015.01.16 17:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
wiseguy12 wrote:Swarms hard to evade an nd everyone has them. A single minmando can kill any vehicle easily. It takes 3swarms to down any shield dropship. And look at how long it takes to shoot them, not long huh. Add a counter measure slot that when used does something to disrupt average. It has to resupplied at supply depot.
Oh ffs find something other than the minmando to bang on. the difference between a minmando and a gallente assault in TTK is negligible. Go do some f*cking math.
Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
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XxBlazikenxX
Y.A.M.A.H
37
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Posted - 2015.01.16 18:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:How does swarms have less warning than forge guns? Swarms have to be locked out in the open, take longer than a forge charge, and move about ten times slower than a forge blast.
I don't get a nifty warning light before a shotgun blast plasters my guts across a wall.
I'm pretty sure 3 seconds to charge is more than 1.4 seconds. Also, does a shotgun have to lock on to shoot you?
Don't make an argument if you have no idea what you're talking about.
A proud member of Y.A.M.A.H
Recruitment
Don't fix what's not Baroque
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6487
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Posted - 2015.01.16 18:34:00 -
[42] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:How does swarms have less warning than forge guns? Swarms have to be locked out in the open, take longer than a forge charge, and move about ten times slower than a forge blast.
I don't get a nifty warning light before a shotgun blast plasters my guts across a wall.
You're missing the argument. It's not JUST swarms. AV 90% of the time has first strike advantage. They want a warning for the swarms because the forge gun first strike can miss because of a sudden shift in trajectory of the dropship or a red dot on the ground can panic you into buggering up your aim.
Wanting a warning that there is a threat is the request.
Let's examine:
Forge gun. First warning is when the flashy ball slams you
Swarms: First warning is when the missiles hit.
One of the two can miss you. It's not horrendously LIKELY, but the chance is there that the forge will miss and tip you off.
the fact that swarms cannot miss the first alpha because of lack of awareness is why there is a push for a warning system.
I want them to see me on the map when I charge my forge gun because I want them to be dumbasses, get brave and get close enough to try and kill me so I can tear their asses off more easily.
Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance
302
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Posted - 2015.01.16 18:43:00 -
[43] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:There's no notification that you're being tracked by swarm missiles that have already been fired.-á
Why is this a problem? Its simple, swarm flight duration is MASSIVE, and will follow you for a long time. Now, as youre doing your job as a pilot and running from that single swarmer, you're very likely to catch the attention of other swarmers along the way, who also toss rounds into the air as you fly by. However, there is virtually no way to know this unless you're hit by them. You usually can't hear them detonate behind you, you can't hear them traveling untill theyre hitting you, and you most certainly cant hear them being launched as you fly by. So, as you're running from one swarmer, a lot of times you'll pick up a couple extra pairs of swarms whicht will increase the amount of time needed to fly away, and there is currently no way to assess that information as a pilot since you're mostly in the dark.
Give an on screen indicator that swarms are currently tracking you, (missiles already in flight, no indicator that you're being locked) and that will go a LONG way towards making piloting a more satisfying experience, while not touching swarm launchers in any way. Im thinking of a slowly flashing red and yellow exclamation point with a circle around it, up near or in a corner of the screen.
Or at absolute least give us a rear view option so we can check for ourselves, since turning = hit by swarms. This however should be a general feature for all vehicles, and won't help pilots nearly as much when trying to evade fire and forget missiles.
I agree a lock on warning would be a very welcome addition to dropships in dust.
Should it start when the swarm launcher is locking on, or when the missiles fire off and get into the air?
I'm thinking the second one, if it was during locking before firing it might make swarms too easy to get away from. |
Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6488
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 18:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
actual lock warning is impossible. they apparently tried it.
My suggestion was giving swarms a 200 Db profile so you can see fast movers coming in to whack you.
Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
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DUST Fiend
duna corp
15563
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Posted - 2015.01.16 18:46:00 -
[45] - Quote
No warning while being locked, just when missiles are in the air. This allows swarm traps to still be powerful and lets careless pilots get ambushed
My YouTube (currently inactive)
Homeless Dropship Enthusiast
"See You Space Cowboy"
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
5876
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Posted - 2015.01.16 18:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
It should also be noted that warnings and countermeasures would make the Swarm Lock-on mechanic more fun.
I would argue that it is difficult to properly balance Dropships vs Swarms without at least a warning mechanism, particularly due to rendering issues which I donGÇÖt expect to get fixed.
If pilots get a lock-on warning, and a Swarm proximity warning, then that shifts the balance and allows Swarms to be made more effective. Without it Swarms tend to be either OP or UP against dropships. Adding an additional balance mechanism makes thing easier to balance.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
419
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Posted - 2015.01.16 19:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
I've gotten behind threads asking for a warning system for swarms in the past, and today my view is a bit jaded on the subject.
Yes a warning system would be nice, and add to immersion of flying a dropship.. But it won't change a single thing about swarm and dropship engagements.
Look at this for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ketBHUqy-HE (be sure to set it to 720 to see the tacnet clearly)
This is what I want fixed.
Check the position of the swarm launcher, see how far the swarms travel, see how using building cover is useless and how the swarms do a 120 degree turn to hit me on the back and to the side after putting a building between us. |
Grimmiers
762
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Posted - 2015.01.16 19:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
From my old thread:
Quote: Make it have a clip size of 4
Each missile has it's own lock on time and consumes 1 shot of the clip.
Make the missiles less accurate if all 4 are launched at once. This means if they miss a vehicle they won't continuously spin around it until it gets a hit. You need a state where the missile loses it's lock and flies off course.
Why?
Having a 12 missiles that lock on doing up to 5500 damage before you have to reload is pretty messed up for a light weapon. You reload 3 more volleys when the plasma cannon only loads 1 shot that has a good chance to miss, and can't lock on at 150m and travel 400m.
It could even have a faster lock on time with this change with the choice of firing a series of single missiles, or doing a burst of 4 at once at the cost of less accuracy. First option would be good for dropships and the second for ground vehicles.
Possible Stat change
Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher
Damage:340 Missiles per shot: 1 Clip size 4 Ammo:36 Lock on Time 0.4 s Reload time 3 seconds
I'm not sure of the current travels speed and tracking angle speed.
A lock on warning would be a workaround for invisible swarms which isn't ideal, but could work. Maybe it should only work while vehicle scanners are activated so a dropship can't have a free warning and an aterburner. |
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