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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18270
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Posted - 2015.01.12 21:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
I will agree sense of progression has been lost though and I am going to try to convince a scaling headshot damage bonus per tier leaving protos where they're at now.
Charge magazine I do not think will ever go back up to 5 shots again, 4's pushing it but that is highly risking putting the Standard or Tactical out of play again and I really don't want it to break it anywhere else
Range is not likely to change for any of the weapons.
Ammo Skill I have been asking for a change in to 2-3+ shots a level instead of the measly 5% which is about 6 shots
Damage of the charged was very considerate of at least giving scouts the opportunity to fit against a charge shot of a full proto maxi fit. While it is unreasonable for a scout to fit in such manner the option IS there.
CPM 1
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7774
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Posted - 2015.01.12 22:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I will agree sense of progression has been lost though and I am going to try to convince a scaling headshot damage bonus per tier leaving protos where they're at now.
Charge magazine I do not think will ever go back up to 5 shots again, 4's pushing it but that is highly risking putting the Standard or Tactical out of play again and I really don't want it to break it anywhere else
Range is not likely to change for any of the weapons.
Ammo Skill I have been asking for a change in to 2-3+ shots a level instead of the measly 5% which is about 6 shots
Damage of the charged was very considerate of at least giving scouts the opportunity to fit against a charge shot of a full proto maxi fit. While it is unreasonable for a scout to fit in such manner the option IS there.
I see you're still a proponent for further Sniper Rifle nerfs, not that I'm surprised.
Scaling headshot multiplier by tier is just dumb, imo... The damage variation between the tiers is minor at best and it really doesn't even matter because the entire premise of the nerfs was that the vocal minority wanted snipers to basically have to land consistent headshots on everything in order to kill it at the expense(?) of reduced range. Essentially, reducing functionality under the misguided pretense of 'better killing potential through higher skill'.
Now you're proposing that anyone who specs Sniper basically has to run Prototype if they want to kill anything at all or just watch the target shrug it off, if you can even hit it given the range reductions.
Question: What would scaling headshot damage do to give anything of value to the game besides a knee-jerk sense of progression by hamstringing the weapon even further..? How does one 'progress' when you're basically pulling them back a few steps to institute a sense of 'progression'?
Your sense of "progression" is also already skewed with the variations (which you still seem to support never changing) because now a player is practically forced to use a Charge Sniper Rifle to counter-snipe due to range differences. Not that it really matters because a lot of previously available tactical positions are gone with the range nerfs, meaning that those snipers are just going to be using Charge Snipers anyway.
You have so many players who -actually snipe- saying that the current mechanics are botch but instead of proposing solutions you're proposing further nerfs under the (incredibly) thin veil of benefit. Or perhaps I am - how did you put it on Skype - "going full ****** over sniping" again?
Aeon's Links
I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
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Yokal Bob
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
613
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Posted - 2015.01.12 22:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:I understand all of that , I have my SR tree maxed , reload and extra in the clips ... the CSR is such a gimmick gun it's ridiculous , not saying SYM is a bad sniper , we all know that's not true but no wonder that's the weapon that was used to win the officer event or pull up some of Nod Keras ( or however it's spelled ... forgive my misspelling ) and see , they all use mostly charged .
It's easy mode when one round insta-kills most on the map .
dont know where ya been buddy, but rarely are you able to insta kill with any sniper rifle now
/{o.o}/ ---L Inflatable hammer strikes again
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Timtron Victory
Horizons' Edge
245
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
I still dont care for the range argument, even if sniper rifles had 50 m range they would still be very useful, just more tactical. I have fought against a sniper with a combat rifle and lost, that was a nice battle. You dont need insane range to snipe targets. Besides changing locations is better, instead of picking a spot no one will ever find you. Scanning range has been nerfed now, so its now even more difficult to find snipers even if you are close to snipers
Dust Weekly Lottery
Proud Christian
Jesus Loves You
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Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles.
79
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Yokal Bob wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:I understand all of that , I have my SR tree maxed , reload and extra in the clips ... the CSR is such a gimmick gun it's ridiculous , not saying SYM is a bad sniper , we all know that's not true but no wonder that's the weapon that was used to win the officer event or pull up some of Nod Keras ( or however it's spelled ... forgive my misspelling ) and see , they all use mostly charged .
It's easy mode when one round insta-kills most on the map . dont know where ya been buddy, but rarely are you able to insta kill with any sniper rifle now
yeah, especially given that assaults got a major HP buff during their update to net over 1K HP, heavy HP has been 1-2K, and most scouts fit around 600-800HP unless double dampening/cloaking/precision enhancing. the main ones that get OHK are starter fits from the academy.
I see you coming from a mile away. 18 KDR. Twittter: SkylineExplicit
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18273
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: Drama Flourish Garnish
Would be more inclined to listen if you got the point.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7776
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: Drama Flourish Garnish Would be more inclined to listen if you got the point.
If the 'point' were in any way clear or concise.
EDIT: Or did you mean if -I- got to the point? In which case, here: Your headshot scaling idea is a nerf. It is dumb. I gave reasons why.
Aeon's Links
I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18273
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: Drama Flourish Garnish Would be more inclined to listen if you got the point. If the 'point' were in any way clear or concise. EDIT: Or did you mean if -I- got to the point? In which case, here: Your headshot scaling idea is a nerf. It is dumb. I gave reasons why.
Those were not reasons.
Reasons are something that I should not have to ask the 5 whys or the 5 questions to get to the bottom of.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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LUGMOS
Quafe Premium
1482
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
I have no complaints for sniping as is now. Except for one:
Hit detection.
But I don't think that's going to change soon, sooo...
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7777
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I will agree sense of progression has been lost though and I am going to try to convince a scaling headshot damage bonus per tier leaving protos where they're at now.
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Now you're proposing that anyone who specs Sniper basically has to run Prototype if they want to kill anything at all or just watch the target shrug it off, if you can even hit it given the range reductions.
Question: What would scaling headshot damage do to give anything of value to the game besides a knee-jerk sense of progression by hamstringing the weapon even further..? How does one 'progress' when you're basically pulling them back a few steps to institute a sense of 'progression'?
Headshot scaling multiplier with prototype being left alone means that one of two things happens:
STD and ADV get -higher- headshot multipliers (unlikely) STD and ADV get -lower- headshot multipliers (dumb for reasons of #UnnecessaryNerf and #WhyDoYouStillHateSnipers)
If it doesn't get any more clear than that I recommend the use of a dictionary.
Aeon's Links
I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18275
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: STD and ADV get -lower- headshot multipliers (dumb for reasons of #UnnecessaryNerf and #WhyDoYouStillHateSnipers)
This is not a reason.
This is drama.
Aeon Amadi wrote: STD and ADV get -higher- headshot multipliers (unlikely)
This is clearly not the path to go for the following reasons
1. It devalues higher level game play severely reducing the values of progression for a sense from a new player and old players who already progressed on the skill; does nothing to address the original complaint that is no or lesser of a reason to skill up the rifle at all as sway is not much of a factor unless you're playing around with the tactical.
2. It defies logic as to why a more advanced weapon in a normal tier progression would lose combat stats. No other weapon does this in the entire game.
3. Increasing the headshot multiplier would greatly devalue the use of damage mods. In many conditions the sniper rifle is a very powerful weapon in the correct circumstances and with the more recent armor nerf there is I am afraid no more maxi suits that can tank a maxi charge rifle let alone the officer one.
4. Because of the devaluation of damage mods the value of more HP mods would lead to more tankier snipers to which may be able to get their shield high enough that it would knock a larger number of countering suit fits off the table as they're no longer able to arm themselves sufficiently to deal with the issue anymore and thus has a cascade effect of further devaluing their SP investments and ultimately
5. Proto or go home mentality will set in again just no longer focusing on the rifle but the mods supporting it and with lower fitting penalties of the lower tier rifles the suit can easily afford to prototype everything else.
CPM 1
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7777
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
(Speaking to the community as a whole and not one person here)
Let me add that the entire reason people hated the weapon ranges pre-1.2 was because the weapons just -stopped- doing damage at all after their maximum range. The community was unanimous about that. However, we've actually -reverted back to that mentality- with sniper rifles exclusively because #Reasons.
If you're being shot at by a sniper with current mechanics, the safest thing to do is back pedal until you're out of the sniper's range. It's really just that simple. Sniper is either doing full damage or he's not doing full damage, there's no in between; there's no optimal or effective range. It's just absolute range.
Considering that you, you offer three different variations of sniper rifles to the players - each with different ranges - and then ask them which one they want to go with, but are then surprised when Charged Sniper Rifles dominate the kill-feed. The answer is obvious as to why, especially when considering the fact that snipers are just as much of a threat to each other as anything else; more-so even and thereby will be at a disadvantage if an enemy sniper can hit them outside of their range.
Include the factor that not all sniper rifles are able to snipe from all tactical locations and you have a recipe for the degradation of an entire weapon line. Good sniper locations are few and far between in the game right now, they don't offer much tactical control over certain maps and that's all the sniper rifle is really good for. If your only real control zone with a sniper rifle is a small stretch of low traffic land, you're considered useless to the team... but incidentally, we've now designed snipers to be useless BECAUSE players hate being hit by them in their optimal conditions.
It's a paradox that's never going to stop until someone realizes that a sniper rifle is a tactical asset to the game and balances accordingly instead of treating them as just some KDR padding slayer tool.
Aeon's Links
I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18275
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:55:00 -
[43] - Quote
Let me stop you right there
We're not playing uprising 1.0 anymore.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7777
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: STD and ADV get -lower- headshot multipliers (dumb for reasons of #UnnecessaryNerf and #WhyDoYouStillHateSnipers)
This is not a reason. This is drama.
Dude, stop trolling, seriously. There is nothing dramatic about that. I'm telling you why your idea is bad.
Let me illustrate:
If the current headshot multipliers are: STD Headshot: 300% ADV Headshot: 300% Proto Headshot: 300%
And you want to change them to....: STD Headshot: 100% ADV Headshot: 200% Proto Headshot: 300%
300% - 200% = -100% 300% - 100% = -200%
This is not a good proposal. You are nerfing and reducing the lower tiers' functionality for the sake of hamstringed progression. In order to achieve a sense of progression, you are effectively reducing the overall capability of the lower tiered rifles when specialists are already telling you that the rifles are under-performing. There is no benefit to this suggestion at all and I have yet to receive an answer to the two questions that I've asked twice-fold.
What function does this proposal serve other than to further damage the balance of the weapon for the sake of progression?
Aeon's Links
I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
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Drecain Midular
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
33
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Posted - 2015.01.12 23:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
1. Getting sniped feel like a cheesy way to die, and I tend to resent the sniper for picking up that weapon and playstyle in the first place. I know I'm not alone by feeling this, I do acctually believe I'm part of the majority in the sentiment. 2. Sniper rifles are objectivley bad right now.
Conclusion: Working as intended to make the game as much fun as possible to the highest amount of players. GG CCP. |
Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7777
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Posted - 2015.01.13 00:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Let me stop you right there
We're not playing uprising 1.0 anymore.
Yeah, we get that, so why are we using the same mechanics of Uprising 1.0 on the Sniper Rifles when they were unanimously considered bad..?
Do you understand what I'm trying to tell you?
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: STD and ADV get -higher- headshot multipliers (unlikely)
This is clearly not the path to go for the following reasons 1. It devalues higher level game play severely reducing the values of progression for a sense from a new player and old players who already progressed on the skill; does nothing to address the original complaint that is no or lesser of a reason to skill up the rifle at all as sway is not much of a factor unless you're playing around with the tactical. 2. It defies logic as to why a more advanced weapon in a normal tier progression would lose combat stats. No other weapon does this in the entire game. 3. Increasing the headshot multiplier would greatly devalue the use of damage mods. In many conditions the sniper rifle is a very powerful weapon in the correct circumstances and with the more recent armor nerf there is I am afraid no more maxi suits that can tank a maxi charge rifle let alone the officer one. 4. Because of the devaluation of damage mods the value of more HP mods would lead to more tankier snipers to which may be able to get their shield high enough that it would knock a larger number of countering suit fits off the table as they're no longer able to arm themselves sufficiently to deal with the issue anymore and thus has a cascade effect of further devaluing their SP investments and ultimately 5. Proto or go home mentality will set in again just no longer focusing on the rifle but the mods supporting it and with lower fitting penalties of the lower tier rifles the suit can easily afford to prototype everything else.
Would you -PLEASE- read what I posted in the context provided? There were plenty of context clues given in that post that you should have immediately assumed that I was not -suggesting- to increase headshot damage and that I was explaining that your proposal meant that there were two paths the proposal would include: 1) RAISING headshot damage 2) LOWERING headshot damage.
Aeon's Links
I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18275
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Posted - 2015.01.13 00:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Let me stop you right there
We're not playing uprising 1.0 anymore. Yeah, we get that, so why are we using the same mechanics of Uprising 1.0 on the Sniper Rifles when they were unanimously considered bad..? Do you understand what I'm trying to tell you?
I'll be honest
No; I don't; too many distractions in your arguments; far too much reliance on me trying to read your mind.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7777
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Posted - 2015.01.13 00:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Let me stop you right there
We're not playing uprising 1.0 anymore. Yeah, we get that, so why are we using the same mechanics of Uprising 1.0 on the Sniper Rifles when they were unanimously considered bad..? Do you understand what I'm trying to tell you? I'll be honest No; I don't; too many distractions in your arguments; far too much reliance on me trying to read your mind.
Pull up a calculator and put in 300 - whatever number you want headshot multiplier to be.
Is it lower?
Then it's a nerf.
Aeon's Links
I don't run MinAssault, I run MAXASSAULT
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18275
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Posted - 2015.01.13 00:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Pull up a calculator and put in 300 - whatever number you want headshot multiplier to be.
Is it lower?
Then it's a nerf.
So how does that fix the complaint about 4<3<2 ?
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
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Tyjus Vacca
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
314
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Posted - 2015.01.13 01:07:00 -
[50] - Quote
Skyline Lonewolf wrote:Tyjus Vacca wrote:Skyline Lonewolf wrote:
im actually not taking it as a personal attack, but on the weapon itself. this was the same way that IWS tried to justify them nerfing the range/clip. cause think about it.. how many of those videos of the "elite" are pre-1.8? nearly all of them. because prior to 1.8 the other variants weren't up to par, and now they are for their roles and because of the headshot multiplier. but imagine if those buffs were in place before the range nerfs/changes, you would've seen a lot more variants on the killfeed with 20-30+ kill games, im sure of that. if you sniped and your shots just tickled your opponents as they strafed/cloaked and giggled away, you wouldn't be satisfied. hence the CSR + 3 dmg mods was used - the only thing that could compete outside a Thale's to take targets down adequately as the devs were neglecting the SR. when i began using the CSR, i absolutely hated it. it was a tough learning curve, but i was told, if you wanted to snipe, it's Charged or nothing. that was 1.5 years ago. people seem to think you can just pick it up and excel, but that's not the case.
I agree with you that the range nerf was unnecessary but the clip nerf was needed. the charge had much higher sustained fire than the other variants it needed the nerf and the current clip size is fine( a dmg buff might put it a little more in line). The charge does not have a "tough learning curve", it just requires alot of skill points to get the best use out of it. Not knocking you, I mean you obviously are one of the "few good snipers" in this game and all of the sniper rifles in this game take a fair amount of skill to excel with but the, charge is by far the easiest sniper to use( not including the thales) it for the most part can OHK any lightly tanked suits without headshots thats why its the easiest sniper to use, you only need headshots or follow up shots on tanked enemies. the charge can output up to 550 dmg in one shot, thats a decently tanked proto scout. I honestly dont think that that the Charge should have the head-shot bonus it has... the charge is really more of a body-shot weapon I propose these sniper changes for the variants Tactical: Head-shot Multiplier 250% Range 400m Base Proto Dmg Same Reticule Change Standard: Head-shot Multiplier 300% Range 500m Base Proto Dmg 275 Charge: Headshot Multiplier 250% Range 600m Base Proto Dmg 400 I prefer it as a body shot weapon more than a head-shot/execution-style one as well. im not all for it being a head shots at close range weapon. i could agree that the reduced clip is bearable. more damage + slightly more range, and a decreased HS multiplier would be the best way to go about that, but watch out for tears.
forgot to add that the charge up time should be doubled
sniper changes !!? O_o
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18280
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Posted - 2015.01.13 12:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
I would only agree to longer charge if the weapon can fire without charge and does a decent amount of damage (more than current) without it.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance
300
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Posted - 2015.01.13 16:04:00 -
[52] - Quote
Skyline Lonewolf wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:There are other rifles aside from the charged.
obviously. so you're just gonna let one gun stay nerfed into the ground because there's other variants? ones that got tactical buffs in comparisson. well look at it this way. there's multiple assault rifles, yet you guys don't hesitate to balance and re-balance those. i can name a few for you: combat rifle, scrambler rifle, rail rifle, duvolle AR. not everyone is gonna flock to just one gun or one variant of that gun unless it's FOTM. the Charged is and has not been FOTM ever since the other variants got buffed. If it's not being used at all, then there's good reason: it's underperforming. and even when it's being used, it's still underperforming.
I use the charge when sniping exclusively, pretty sure its the best countersniper rifle in the game. |
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles.
84
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Posted - 2015.01.14 07:40:00 -
[53] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:
I use the charge when sniping exclusively, pretty sure its the best countersniper rifle in the game.
a truly balanced weapon, and its variants, should be used not only when the situation deems appropriate, such as countersniping. that's all the head shot multiplier has been good for since the hit detection on mobile targets/scope was somehow as gimped. i still land hs, but at times the bullets don't register dmg on targets. all SRs should be viable as a sniper's go-to varying only on their play styles. tactical - more closer, slightly more mobile mid-range sniping support, higher clip, lower dmg. ishukone/charged - sit and snipe, more damage, relocating when appropriate to get a shot on the objective/high-traffic lanes/equipment. if they added more elevated sockets on some maps within the playing field, more snipers would be inclined to snipe inside. when i sniped in the regular playing field, it was usually on some elevated socket with multiple lines of sight.
I see you coming from a mile away. 18 KDR. Twittter: SkylineExplicit
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demonkiller 12
The Rainbow Effect
434
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Posted - 2015.01.14 08:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
I used to have a lot of fun with the tactical, worth specing back into? |
Skyline Lonewolf
Ancient Exiles.
84
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Posted - 2015.01.14 08:19:00 -
[55] - Quote
demonkiller 12 wrote:I used to have a lot of fun with the tactical, worth specing back into?
i don't know. i'd ask someone who still actively snipes and is proficient with it. there's few and far active snipers nowadays though that fit that description.
I see you coming from a mile away. 18 KDR. Twittter: SkylineExplicit
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Symbioticforks
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
1029
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Posted - 2015.01.14 08:24:00 -
[56] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:There are other rifles aside from the charged.
You can !@#% right off.
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Symbioticforks
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
1029
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Posted - 2015.01.14 08:36:00 -
[57] - Quote
IWS has been nothing but detrimental to sniping. Anyone disagree?
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demonkiller 12
The Rainbow Effect
434
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Posted - 2015.01.14 08:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
How much dmg does the FORK do with 3x dmg mods and max skills on headshot? I got 1 hit by it in my amarr sentinel and it said 2300 dmg but I cant see anyway thats possible unless i lagged and it seemed like a single shot |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18314
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Posted - 2015.01.14 11:40:00 -
[59] - Quote
demonkiller 12 wrote:I used to have a lot of fun with the tactical, worth specing back into?
It has a larger mag and does far more damage than it used to.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18314
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Posted - 2015.01.14 11:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
demonkiller 12 wrote:How much dmg does the FORK do with 3x dmg mods and max skills on headshot? I got 1 hit by it in my amarr sentinel and it said 2300 dmg but I cant see anyway thats possible unless i lagged and it seemed like a single shot
accounted for cal sentinel and armor resistances on that officer weapon?
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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