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Is it me or Swarm Launchers are ridiculous?

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DRAKEST HOUR Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 8	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:16:00 - [61] - Quote Shaco Mordekaiser wrote: DRAKEST HOUR wrote: Hey everybody! Why can't I just fly around in my dropship unchallenged while slaughtering infantry? This game is broken! Swarms were useless for a long time and now that they have a little bite back ADS pilots QQ about having to be cautious of their surroundings. I'm sorry Origonal Poster but I have no sympathy for you and do not regard your complaint as valid, so I will not be arguing statistical balancing points with you. Plus you are the one that decide to start a QQ thread and asked if anyone thinks this problem you are having is related to you "sucking". Well sir, my opinion is that the issue is more about your "suck" factor than the individual skill required by a swarm user. Dude go away. You're following this thread literally for the purpose of antagonizing the OP and shouting "QQ you're bad". If you're going to be active in the community, why not try being constructive and intelligent, rather than just a raging ****? OP asked for opinions and that's what is happening. Don't be mad bra...need a hug?
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1435	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:17:00 - [62] - Quote Cheydinhal Guard wrote: You also run the risk of the vehicle escaping you're 175m of range, whereas the Forge gunners are good up to 300m. You also run the risk of your missiles running into terrain, which is equivalent to missing. The missiles are also much slower than a FG shot, increasing the odds of your pray escaping. Swarms on a Min Commando are a completely different story. Actually, it's the only way to use SLs to their full potential. How is this in any way lacking of skill? And have you forgotten that PLCs get a damage buff on Gal Commandos? They aren't overshadowed by SLs. They are much more effective towards shield vehicles, along with the fact that they have a more balanced damage profile. I guess people aren't as open to them because they were a laughing stock for a year. Did you use them before the buff? Edit: Nevermind. PLCs don't get that damage buff. I was under the impression that it did. Swarms only lock on at 175 meters. However, once the swarms are away, how far do you think the swarms go? 400-500 meters? How many salvos can you get off before the vehicle notices? Also, with forges, not only do you have to aim, you have to aim at where you think the vehicle will be in the time it takes for the shot to travel. It's called leading, something swarmers don't have to worry about. Also, if you don't think PLCs are overshadowed, tell me the last time you saw one actively engaging in competitive gameplay against vehicles. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1435	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:22:00 - [63] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Even so, if an opponent knows the tanks are coming -- and they always do -- you'd think they could spawn in start-of-match with their "ridiculously overpowered" swarms and hold their ground against two tanks. And yet. In discussing balance, we must take into account present performance of the competent and tactically minded pilot. Above are examples of pilots "who do it right" and in doing it right, manage to shrug off AV and streamroll match after match at little-to-no-risk. What happens to the pilots who "do it right" if we balance V/AV around those who "do it wrong"? Its not all about competency, a competent pilot in a tank or dropship with standard modules can't fight back. There's a huge gap in module efficiency from standard to advanced. You have to have at least Enhanced modules to escape swarmers/forges and at least Prototype to engage them, whereas AV can engage vehicles and still make them run with any tier. Also, try not to pull words out of your ass... I never said they were rediculously overpowered or could solo two tanks simultaneously. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 236	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:27:00 - [64] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: What I found to be ridiculous was Uprising 1.7. Pray tell, if tanks are sooo bad and swarms sooo good, how is it that Milkman and Addict Punk continue to stomp Ambush after Ambush with them? because they're in proto squads, tanks are just the icing on the cake
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 462	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:29:00 - [65] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I remember when my 7 year old tried playing the PS3 when he was three. The major problem was his hands were too small to properly manipulate the controller. Yes they have small hands, but to kill something with SL all they need it to aim with stick, and then hold one button(repeat it several times). Swarms are boring for both sides, and I'm sure nothing will change in way how they work in this year . There is no f* way that someone from CCP would try to make Swarms entertainment again in this year. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 234	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:38:00 - [66] - Quote I dont even use them anymore. While I try to lock on, I get killed by a scout. No point anymore haha. Flux a Gunlogi twice and it flees, why bother with swarms? Remote a Maddie with two remotes and he flees, so why use swarms? Oh before I forget nova knives can kill tanks too, and it does more damage Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can kill me. Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Zindorak Nyain Chan General Tso's Alliance 1620	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:42:00 - [67] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Uhh oh, you asked for it. The whole community is gonna come here and throw sh*t in your face. You can't just come her and ask to nerf I win buttons for infantry man!! They'll nerf your vehicles!! Yea pretty much Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1629	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:48:00 - [68] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Even so, if an opponent knows the tanks are coming -- and they always do -- you'd think they could spawn in start-of-match with their "ridiculously overpowered" swarms and hold their ground against two tanks. And yet. In discussing balance, we must take into account present performance of the competent and tactically minded pilot. Above are examples of pilots "who do it right" and in doing it right, manage to shrug off AV and streamroll match after match at little-to-no-risk. What happens to the pilots who "do it right" if we balance V/AV around those who "do it wrong"? Its not all about competency, a competent pilot in a tank or dropship with standard modules can't fight back. There's a huge gap in module efficiency from standard to advanced. You have to have at least Enhanced modules to escape swarmers/forges and at least Prototype to engage them, whereas AV can engage vehicles and still make them run with any tier. Also, try not to pull words out of your ass... I never said they were rediculously overpowered or could solo two tanks simultaneously. Didn't intend to jab at you, Lugmos. The word "ridiculous" is in the title of this thread. If vehicle modules scale poorly, then we should address how vehicle modules scale. My point is that we cannot claim that blaster tanks are ineffective with evidence in-hand to the contrary, nor can we claim that swarms are winbuttons for precisely the same reason. Juno Tristan wrote: [they get to stomp risk-free] because they're in proto squads, tanks are just the icing on the cake Seems legit. Let's buff 'em.
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 460	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:49:00 - [69] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: You also run the risk of the vehicle escaping you're 175m of range, whereas the Forge gunners are good up to 300m. You also run the risk of your missiles running into terrain, which is equivalent to missing. The missiles are also much slower than a FG shot, increasing the odds of your pray escaping. Swarms on a Min Commando are a completely different story. Actually, it's the only way to use SLs to their full potential. How is this in any way lacking of skill? And have you forgotten that PLCs get a damage buff on Gal Commandos? They aren't overshadowed by SLs. They are much more effective towards shield vehicles, along with the fact that they have a more balanced damage profile. I guess people aren't as open to them because they were a laughing stock for a year. Did you use them before the buff? Edit: Nevermind. PLCs don't get that damage buff. I was under the impression that it did. Swarms only lock on at 175 meters. However, once the swarms are away, how far do you think the swarms go? 400-500 meters? How many salvos can you get off before the vehicle notices? Also, with forges, not only do you have to aim, you have to aim at where you think the vehicle will be in the time it takes for the shot to travel. It's called leading, something swarmers don't have to worry about. Also, if you don't think PLCs are overshadowed, tell me the last time you saw one actively engaging in competitive gameplay against vehicles. Travel range is 400m. Irrelevant to HAVs, thanks to the turn speed nerfs making it so that turning a corner causes your missiles to crash into the nearest building. ADS can activate afterburners, or fly to the flight ceiling. I don't get the kill, and he doesn't lose his ADS. At most, you'll get two salvos off against any pilot that isn't brain dead. After that, they zoom away. See, to be a successful Swarmer, you have to predict the path of your missiles in order to minimize the chance of losing salvos to a wall. It's different from leading, yet it doesn't take less skill. Mashing the R1 button and releasing every volley in short order doesn't work on decent people. Lack of use compared to other weapons Gëá being underpowered or overshadowed. The fact that the ScR is probably the least used rifle doesn't mean the other rifles overshadow it. It has its pros and cons, and it succeeds where other rifles have a tough time, just like the PLC and the SL. As I said before, the PLC was a joke for over a year. People aren't quick to spend SP on a weapon with such a reputation. Also, anecdotal evidence hardly suffices as real evidence. I could easily tell you about the times when my SL failed to kill a vehicle regardless of how much I prepped, but does it get me anywhere? No. It makes me look narcissistic talking about my own experiences without any actual facts. Me this, me that. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14988	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:56:00 - [70] - Quote Pagl1u M wrote: 1 yes, It is not so hard to locate a dropship flying in the sky, for sure it is harder to locate who has a SL while you are flying. 2 I'm sure 99% of the players with a SL don't calculate a ****, they just press R1 and see the weapon doing their job. 3 not found 4 5 6 if you are the first to hit (and with a SL you are likely to hit first) you are creating Big troubles in the ability of the pilot to aim. 7 is that so hard? What I want to say is: I'm not talking about competitive levels but, between two average players the swarmer is likely to win because is weapon requires way less skill than using and shooting with an ADS. When you have to be above average to fight your counterpart that is average or worse, things are not balanced 1. Perceived difficulty is irrelevant, still a skill and a perquisite. 2. Only Pressing R1 and firing is the best way to guarantee that you hit the wall instead of the Pilot. As for what 99% (which is a falsified figure) do, see above. 3. Fixed 4. See Point #1 5. See Point #2 6. See Point #2 7. Depends on the Pilot; Also See Point #1 Given how all of the same points listed are perquisites to destroy vehicles with FGs and PLCs, would it be safe to conclude that you believe it "takes no skill" to destroy vehicles with a Forge Gun or Plasma Cannon? Between average players, the Vehicle has a heavy advantage as AV weapons (as far as SLs and PLCs are concerned) are terrible until Operation V & Proficiency III which average players don't have, while most Modules yield the same benefit across every tier, allowing even a minimally invested player to be effective against low-mid tier AV. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND

Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 298	Posted - 2015.01.10 23:02:00 - [71] - Quote Pagl1u M wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: The swarmer also needs proper positioning, and he also has to worry about getting ganked by infantry, all while trying not to get killed by the pilot. What does the pilot have to do? Turn a corner. Not that I'm complaining, but swarms aren't the skill-less god-mode AV weapon that some people make them out to be. I dont know if you are trolling or being serious anyway. 1 proper position: do you mean being able to stand still? Cause that's the proper position you need. 2 has to worry about getting ganked: you just need the incredible skill to stay near your friends. 3 while trying not to get killed by the pilot: land an hit on that pilot and he'll make a damn barrel roll, good luck to him on his try to aim you. What does the swarmer have to do? Press R1, stay near friends. What does the pilot have to do? Fly the damn dropship, find the swarmer between all the players, aim at you while flying, try to not crash into every wall or into the ground because of your missiles, maybe activate a couple of modules. Seems fine. 1. Standing still vs. a vehicle is suicide, and even if there wasnt a vehicle standing still would be ******** with all the snipers and other infantry cruising around. You might not know what the hell you are talking about. 2. Staying near your friends is not a guarantee that you wont get wrecked in this game. Shooting a swarm launcher is like firing a flare into the sky that bursts into the words "please come put bullets in me", the second you shoot any infantry in the area is going to aquire you by sound, then by sight, then start shooting. You might not know what the hell you are talking about. 3. Ive never seen a tank do a barrel roll, and dropships do not get knocked around enough to prevent them from killing a swarmer unless the swarmer was going to win anyway (i.e. You have a crappy fitting and he has a very good one and you are too stupid to run away). Meanwhile what do you have to do to kill infantry? Just learn not to crash and you can float around killing them at your leisure. Until AV comes around to stop you. Its the circle of life.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 236	Posted - 2015.01.10 23:06:00 - [72] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Let's buff 'em and make their stomping even easier. I think you're missing the point, OP is saying swarms are too easy to use based on their damage, not that they damage too much
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6290	Posted - 2015.01.10 23:10:00 - [73] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Why is the hate for tanks so god damn high? Believe it or not? The hate for tanks has nothing to do with how powerful they are on the battlefield. It has everything to do with these forums. past that it's a really loaded question. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1438	Posted - 2015.01.10 23:17:00 - [74] - Quote Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Edit: You never answered my question. Did you use PLCs before the buff? Sure I did. Why? Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 466	Posted - 2015.01.10 23:29:00 - [75] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Edit: You never answered my question. Did you use PLCs before the buff? Sure I did. Why? I'm glad. I'm sure you remember how terrible they were. Considering the majority of the playerbase doesn't visit the forums, I doubt they know it isn't laughable anymore. That and it's more expensive than a SL, especially at PRO tier. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2127	Posted - 2015.01.10 23:34:00 - [76] - Quote I'm getting a really bad impression that some people in this thread think Swarms take as much skill to use as Plasma Cannons or even Forge Guns. They don't. I'm not saying swarms don't take some skill, they do, but to imply that they takes as much as a Plasma Cannon is preposterous. Home at Last <3
Pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1259	Posted - 2015.01.10 23:37:00 - [77] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Let's buff 'em and make their stomping even easier. I think you're missing the point, OP is saying swarms are too easy to use based on their damage, not that they damage too much Thank god someone understands. If we use the formula Power/skill=number Number is very high cause Power is not bad at all and skill is very low. The same formula with the plasma Cannon or the FG give you a smaller "number" cause skill needed is higher. "Number" should be similare between these 3 weapons. Ps. When I say "skill" I mean personal skill, personal ability, not SP investment One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1500	Posted - 2015.01.11 03:15:00 - [78] - Quote DRAKEST HOUR wrote: LUGMOS wrote: DRAKEST HOUR wrote: Ya, because it takes so much skill to fly a dropship around all match and missile snipe infantry. It's a video game....play something else if you don't like it. Or just QQ on a forum.....if that is more fun for you. Obligatory try it for yourself post I fly an ADS....no complaints. Maybe OP is a bad pilot. You obviously don't fly an ADS. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1449	Posted - 2015.01.11 04:02:00 - [79] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: I'm getting a really bad impression that some people in this thread think Swarms take as much skill to use as Plasma Cannons or even Forge Guns. They don't. I'm not saying swarms don't take some skill, they do, but to imply that they takes as much as a Plasma Cannon is preposterous. ^ Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3709	Posted - 2015.01.11 04:02:00 - [80] - Quote Cheydinhal Guard wrote: The swarmer also needs proper positioning, and he also has to worry about getting ganked by infantry, all while trying not to get killed by the pilot. What does the pilot have to do? Turn a corner. Not that I'm complaining, but swarms aren't the skill-less god-mode AV weapon that some people make them out to be. wow....so are you really implying that it takes more skill to use swarm launchers than ADS??? Is this the sort of player thinking that I'm up against every time that I post on the forums? Shield tanking is hard mode /period. > Check RND out here

LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1449	Posted - 2015.01.11 04:03:00 - [81] - Quote Cheydinhal Guard wrote: That and it's more expensive than a SL, especially at PRO tier. Are you sure? I'm pretty sure every weapon of equal meta level is the same price now... Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3709	Posted - 2015.01.11 04:04:00 - [82] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Pagl1u M wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: The swarmer also needs proper positioning, and he also has to worry about getting ganked by infantry, all while trying not to get killed by the pilot. What does the pilot have to do? Turn a corner. Not that I'm complaining, but swarms aren't the skill-less god-mode AV weapon that some people make them out to be. I dont know if you are trolling or being serious anyway. 1 proper position: do you mean being able to stand still? Cause that's the proper position you need. 2 has to worry about getting ganked: you just need the incredible skill to stay near your friends. 3 while trying not to get killed by the pilot: land an hit on that pilot and he'll make a damn barrel roll, good luck to him on his try to aim you. What does the swarmer have to do? Press R1, stay near friends. What does the pilot have to do? Fly the damn dropship, find the swarmer between all the players, aim at you while flying, try to not crash into every wall or into the ground because of your missiles, maybe activate a couple of modules. Seems fine. 1. Standing still vs. a vehicle is suicide, and even if there wasnt a vehicle standing still would be ******** with all the snipers and other infantry cruising around. You might not know what the hell you are talking about. 2. Staying near your friends is not a guarantee that you wont get wrecked in this game. Shooting a swarm launcher is like firing a flare into the sky that bursts into the words "please come put bullets in me", the second you shoot any infantry in the area is going to aquire you by sound, then by sight, then start shooting. You might not know what the hell you are talking about. 3. Ive never seen a tank do a barrel roll, and dropships do not get knocked around enough to prevent them from killing a swarmer unless the swarmer was going to win anyway (i.e. You have a crappy fitting and he has a very good one and you are too stupid to run away). Meanwhile what do you have to do to kill infantry? Just learn not to crash and you can float around killing them at your leisure. Until AV comes around to stop you. Its the circle of life. Do you tank or fly ADS? Shield tanking is hard mode /period. > Check RND out here
jane stalin Ametat Security Amarr Empire 84	Posted - 2015.01.11 04:09:00 - [83] - Quote swarms do not take skill to fire, dropships take skill to fly, Everyone needs to think about their position so it is not worth discussing I would back a brand new player using swarms against some that had spent weeks flying an assault dropship, I would back a very drunk me with swarms against against a sober me with an assault dropship. I think this is how it should be, I want the game to be mainly about infantry
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1706	Posted - 2015.01.11 05:24:00 - [84] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Have you ever heard of a hyperbole? The way he uses this in a sentence makes me think he pronounces it "hyper-bowl". Go Here and vote! 1 like is 1 vote!
Pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1267	Posted - 2015.01.11 12:26:00 - [85] - Quote It looks like it is not just me... One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 300	Posted - 2015.01.11 18:59:00 - [86] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Pagl1u M wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: The swarmer also needs proper positioning, and he also has to worry about getting ganked by infantry, all while trying not to get killed by the pilot. What does the pilot have to do? Turn a corner. Not that I'm complaining, but swarms aren't the skill-less god-mode AV weapon that some people make them out to be. I dont know if you are trolling or being serious anyway. 1 proper position: do you mean being able to stand still? Cause that's the proper position you need. 2 has to worry about getting ganked: you just need the incredible skill to stay near your friends. 3 while trying not to get killed by the pilot: land an hit on that pilot and he'll make a damn barrel roll, good luck to him on his try to aim you. What does the swarmer have to do? Press R1, stay near friends. What does the pilot have to do? Fly the damn dropship, find the swarmer between all the players, aim at you while flying, try to not crash into every wall or into the ground because of your missiles, maybe activate a couple of modules. Seems fine. 1. Standing still vs. a vehicle is suicide, and even if there wasnt a vehicle standing still would be ******** with all the snipers and other infantry cruising around. You might not know what the hell you are talking about. 2. Staying near your friends is not a guarantee that you wont get wrecked in this game. Shooting a swarm launcher is like firing a flare into the sky that bursts into the words "please come put bullets in me", the second you shoot any infantry in the area is going to aquire you by sound, then by sight, then start shooting. You might not know what the hell you are talking about. 3. Ive never seen a tank do a barrel roll, and dropships do not get knocked around enough to prevent them from killing a swarmer unless the swarmer was going to win anyway (i.e. You have a crappy fitting and he has a very good one and you are too stupid to run away). Meanwhile what do you have to do to kill infantry? Just learn not to crash and you can float around killing them at your leisure. Until AV comes around to stop you. Its the circle of life. Do you tank or fly ADS? Yes to both
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 272	Posted - 2015.01.11 19:05:00 - [87] - Quote Cheydinhal Guard wrote: The swarmer also needs proper positioning, and he also has to worry about getting ganked by infantry, all while trying not to get killed by the pilot. What does the pilot have to do? Turn a corner. Not that I'm complaining, but swarms aren't the skill-less god-mode AV weapon that some people make them out to be. A player thinking two seconds about positioning has nothing to do with the ease of use of the weapon. Most any game I've got a swarmer and maybe an FGer sitting way over on a building or hill, sipping beer and one hand shooting their load. No surprise since it's all about soloing vehicles now. There is a reason something like AV should be a two man or more job or make the soloist work for the kill. ADS are way harder to deal with an AVer even after you learn to fly and shoot. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 475	Posted - 2015.01.11 19:09:00 - [88] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: That and it's more expensive than a SL, especially at PRO tier. Are you sure? I'm pretty sure every weapon of equal meta level is the same price now... Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher: 28,2845 ISK Allotek Plasma Cannon: 47,220 ISK Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 475	Posted - 2015.01.11 19:11:00 - [89] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: The swarmer also needs proper positioning, and he also has to worry about getting ganked by infantry, all while trying not to get killed by the pilot. What does the pilot have to do? Turn a corner. Not that I'm complaining, but swarms aren't the skill-less god-mode AV weapon that some people make them out to be. wow....so are you really implying that it takes more skill to use swarm launchers than ADS??? Is this the sort of player thinking that I'm up against every time that I post on the forums? I'm not implying anything of the sort. I'm simply stating the Swarm Launcher's obvious weakness. Don't get so worked up over a simple statement. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!


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