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Is it me or Swarm Launchers are ridiculous?

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DRAKEST HOUR Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 6	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:22:00 - [31] - Quote Pagl1u M wrote: I have never said I'm a great pilot, I'm an infantry man, but: 1 I'm sure I am more skilled in pyloting than 90% of the swarmers that take me down are at AVing 2 Swarms are way too effective for the relative skill required to use them. That is your opinion and I disagree.
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 4303	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:23:00 - [32] - Quote Pagl1u M wrote: The problem with that weapon is that it is too effective for the skill it needs. I mean personal skill, I dont mean SP investment. I could give the DS3 to a 3 yeas old idiot and he could be a great swarmer, you only need to have one working hand. While being way too easy to be used it is very rewarding, even the militia Swarm launcher can make a Python run away in fear. I'm not talking about the greatest pylots of the game obviously, I'm sure snugglz or derrith or the other great pylots don't have all these problems but a normal pylot gets his ass destroyed by every idiot embracing a militia swarm launcher. The problem is the personal skill required. At the same level of skill the swarmer will destroy the poor pylot without any effort. Being so easy the swarm launcher should be way less efficient. I dont have problems with FG or rail tanks or plasma cannons, they require a little bit of skill to be used so there is a fair fight between the pylot and the other guy. The swarmer only need to be able to press R1. Is it just me sucking? Fix the auto target and guess what you fix some of the afking too! Oh brilliant, yeah I'm smart you all suck my nipples. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
DRAKEST HOUR Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 6	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:25:00 - [33] - Quote also there is no Y in pilot.
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14982	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:27:00 - [34] - Quote Pagl1u M wrote: I was mostly speaking about dropships, not tanks. If you want to explain your points I'll gladly listen to you. Thank you. You say that it takes no skill to operate Swarm Launchers because of it's locking capabilities, but that means very little. Even though you have the lock, if you want to begin an engagement you still have to: 1. Locate Hostile Vehicle 2. Calculate Probability of Winning. That's no different than the Forge Gun, Plasma Cannon, or heck even JLAVs. Now when it comes to an engagements against Pilots you need to do the following: 4. Find Cover 5. Evade Pilot's Fire 6. Assess all possible escape routes 7. Predict where the Pilot will go (ie, around a corner). Still no different than the Forge Gun, Plasma Cannon, or JLAV. I know someone's going to say "hurr durr you forgot to put "Aim" there buddy" so I'll address that. The only difference having to aim makes in an engagement is the fact that there's a probability of missing your shots, which increases your TTK. Yet with the Swarm Launcher one of the shots will always miss because as long as you can resist the urges to consume potato chips and soft drinks and have a reaction time hire than a mental patient (1), you'll always be able to react in time to escape the 4th volley, which is what will kill the Pilot (2). Then we move onto the last part of the engagement, which is what happens when the Pilot decides to exit their vehicle before being destroyed, to avoid death and kill the AVer (3). 8. Swamp to Secondary Weapon 9. Combat the Pilot (4) Can you point out any differences between what I listed and V/AV engagements with other AV weapons?. If not, than when you say SLs require no skill you mean AV as a whole requires no skill, in which case I have another essay to write. --- (1) Average Human Reaction Time is .215s while Average Vehicle TTK is 7s. DSs move at 50m/s, which means you have to be 16x as slow to not evade the 175m radius in time to escape volley 4. (2) 3 Volleys for Base Vehicles, but 5+ for fitted Gunnlogies. (3), (4) Optional and does not happen on each engagement/ Anything I missed? The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 453	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:28:00 - [35] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: It's kind of hard to find a hill or an elevated position in a city, which is where most vehicles will be found. Camping one area with swarms is a terrible tactic. All it takes is for the vehicle to get out of my 175m of range, which is relatively easy btw, and I become useless while Mr. L33t pilot can proceed with his slaughter. Movement is key in a V vs AV battle. As I've stated before, If you aren't out in an open field, swarms are easy to avoid. Turn a corner and watch as the missles smash into a building. Also, I rarely get killed by tanks. 1.7 made me an expert tank dodger In those cases, then, swarms should not be used. AV at that point should then switch over to PLCs, giving them decent Anti-infantry capability wile retaining AV capability. But heck, who am I to say that AV needs to switch fits to best reflect the situation at hand, or dare say that AV must use a weapon that uses skill. Also, how much of a slaughter does Mr. 1337 actually do? 10-1, ending the match with 500-600 WP? Mr. 1337's level of slaughter is relative to his skill as a pilot. So it's fine to use FGs and PLCs and other AV in the city, because they take "skill", but swarms shouldn't be used? How fair. The FG also outclasses it out in the open. Have you dedicated yourself to using swarms? It's not a cakewalk, on the contrary to popular belief. Swarms have been nerfed repeatedly, and yet pilots still complain. I give you a valid weakness of the SL, and your answer is "pull out a PLC". How does that empower the SL? It doesn't. My only option is to completely stop using it even though it's never been stated anywhere that SLs aren't supposed to be used in contested areas. God forbid I try to use an AV weapon for AV Swarms are only truly deadly when damage modded on a PRO Min Commando. Until the day comes that the Min Commando becomes FoTM, any complaints about Swarms are complete ***. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum*!
Pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1256	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:28:00 - [36] - Quote DRAKEST HOUR wrote: also there is no Y in pilot. Holy **** man can you post 1 thing that is related to the thread? You are here to say 1 you suck 2 I m a pro pilot 3 I disagree but cant prove my points 4 english is not your first language so you are wrong. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
DRAKEST HOUR Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 6	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:29:00 - [37] - Quote uhhhh... you asked if you suck. My answer is YES.
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 3647	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:35:00 - [38] - Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1256	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:40:00 - [39] - Quote Atiim wrote: 1. Locate Hostile Vehicle 2. Calculate Probability of Winning.[/b] That's no different than the Forge Gun, Plasma Cannon, or heck even JLAVs. Now when it comes to an engagements against Pilots you need to do the following: 4. Find Cover 5. Evade Pilot's Fire 6. Assess all possible escape routes 7. Predict where the Pilot will go (ie, around a corner). 1 yes, It is not so hard to locate a dropship flying in the sky, for sure it is harder to locate who has a SL while you are flying. 2 I'm sure 99% of the players with a SL dont calculate a ****, they just press R1 and see the weapon doing their job. 3 not found 4 5 6 if you are the first to hit (and with a SL you are likely to hit first) you are creating Big troubles in the ability of the pilot to aim. 7 is that so hard? What I want to say is: I'm not talking about competitive levels but, between two average players the swarmer is likely to win because is weapon requires way less skill than using and shooting with an ADS. When you have to be above average to fight your counterpart that is average or worse, things are not balanced One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1429	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:45:00 - [40] - Quote Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Mr. 1337's level of slaughter is relative to his skill as a pilot. So it's fine to use FGs and PLCs and other AV in the city, because they take "skill", but swarms shouldn't be used? How fair. The FG also outclasses it out in the open. Have you dedicated yourself to using swarms? It's not a cakewalk, on the contrary to popular belief. Swarms have been nerfed repeatedly, and yet pilots still complain. I give you a valid weakness of the SL, and your answer is "pull out a PLC". How does that empower the SL? It doesn't. My only option is to completely stop using it even though it's never been stated anywhere that SLs aren't supposed to be used in contested areas. God forbid I try to use an AV weapon for AV Swarms are only truly deadly when damage modded on a PRO Min Commando. Until the day comes that the Min Commando becomes FoTM, any complaints about Swarms are complete ***. Just to make myself clear, I never said that swarms were OP, just overly effective for the skill used to operate them. As a "dedicated AVer," I would think one's strategy would be more than just shoot away with one type of weapon the entire match. After all, for shield tanks, one should use a Plasma Cannon, in an engagement that is in a city, one should use something more effective for the situation (proxies, remotes, AV nades, PLC). And yes, my answer should be if the swarm is weak in one respect use something that is more suited to the situation at hand. Thus, my answer should be the PLC. It's never been stated that SLs can't be used in contested areas because it is possible, just not viable. You said it yourself. This isn't just about the SL, it's about the fact that in 90% of all engagements, swarm launchers are used instead of PLC or Forge. Why is it? Maybe it is more effective than the other options? Maybe it's easy to use? A combo??? I don't get why AV is so focused on the Swarm Launcher, and keeping that viable. Swarm Launcher nerf? Shiii, better keep the SL alive because it is the only easy, effective way to counter vehicles. One does not see, however, that there are other AV options. Official QuafeGäó Advocate* Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V

LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1431	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:54:00 - [41] - Quote shaman oga wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w Really interesting. Sooo... What should I get out of it? Swarms are good right now because they give a simple solution, and Forge and PLC should be buffed? Or swarms should be nerfed because they're easy and effective? Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
DRAKEST HOUR Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 6	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:55:00 - [42] - Quote Hey everybody! Why can't I just fly around in my dropship unchallenged while slaughtering infantry? This game is broken! Swarms were useless for a long time and now that they have a little bite back ADS pilots QQ about having to be cautious of their surroundings. I'm sorry Origonal Poster but I have no sympathy for you and do not regard your complaint as valid, so I will not be arguing statistical balancing points with you. Plus you are the one that decide to start a QQ thread and asked if anyone thinks this problem you are having is related to you "sucking". Well sir, my opinion is that the issue is more about your "suck" factor than the individual skill required by a swarm user.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 236	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:08:00 - [43] - Quote Atiim wrote: The only difference having to aim makes in an engagement is the fact that there's a probability of missing your shots, which increases your TTK. Yet with the Swarm Launcher one of the shots will always miss because as long as you can resist the urges to consume potato chips and soft drinks and have a reaction time hire than a mental patient (1), you'll always be able to react in time to escape the 4th volley, which is what will kill the Pilot (2). There is only 1 course of action against a swarmer - run away (from an ADS perspective) because by the time you've located where they are, they have enough time to get that 4th shot off before you can get out of 175m range a forge/PLCs have correct hit detection markers, so you know where the shot is coming from, and can fly evasively whilst you try and locate them and have a 1v1
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 459	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:09:00 - [44] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Mr. 1337's level of slaughter is relative to his skill as a pilot. So it's fine to use FGs and PLCs and other AV in the city, because they take "skill", but swarms shouldn't be used? How fair. The FG also outclasses it out in the open. Have you dedicated yourself to using swarms? It's not a cakewalk, on the contrary to popular belief. Swarms have been nerfed repeatedly, and yet pilots still complain. I give you a valid weakness of the SL, and your answer is "pull out a PLC". How does that empower the SL? It doesn't. My only option is to completely stop using it even though it's never been stated anywhere that SLs aren't supposed to be used in contested areas. God forbid I try to use an AV weapon for AV Swarms are only truly deadly when damage modded on a PRO Min Commando. Until the day comes that the Min Commando becomes FoTM, any complaints about Swarms are complete ***. Just to make myself clear, I never said that swarms were OP, just overly effective for the skill used to operate them. As a "dedicated AVer," I would think one's strategy would be more than just shoot away with one type of weapon the entire match. After all, for shield tanks, one should use a Plasma Cannon, in an engagement that is in a city, one should use something more effective for the situation (proxies, remotes, AV nades, PLC). And yes, my answer should be if the swarm is weak in one respect use something that is more suited to the situation at hand. Thus, my answer should be the PLC. It's never been stated that SLs can't be used in contested areas because it is possible, just not viable. You said it yourself. This isn't just about the SL, it's about the fact that in 90% of all engagements, swarm launchers are used instead of PLC or Forge. Why is it? Maybe it is more effective than the other options? Maybe it's easy to use? A combo??? I don't get why AV is so focused on the Swarm Launcher, and keeping that viable. Swarm Launcher nerf? Shiii, better keep the SL alive because it is the only easy, effective way to counter vehicles. One does not see, however, that there are other AV options. The popular belief is that SLs take much less skill because they lack one of the requirements of the other AV weapons, which is decent aim. The SL may not require aim per se, but it has tons of other skillfull requirements in order to properly destroy other vehicles. I rarely see Swarms that aren't PRO tier, yet I see FGs of all types. Starter fit SLs are a non factor. Swarms are most commonly used due to 1. New players are introduced to them first with the Anti-Armor fit. As useless as it is for higher tiered vehicles, it's still somewhat useful against LAVs and such. 2. Swarms can be fit on a wider variety of suits. Think: why properly spec into a heavy suit and have to lug around a Forge gun when you can fit your Wyrkomi swarms on a med or light frame and go to work? It's less effective, but it's fine for chasing away that pesky ADS or HAV. Swarms don't even have the killing power of other types of AV. Who would you like to have on your side? Two PRO forge gunners, or two PRO SL users? Ehh knowing you, you would rather have two PLCers. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum*!
Shaco Mordekaiser Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:13:00 - [45] - Quote I'm gonna go ahead and agree with the OP and say that Militia Swarm Launchers are too good for the skill required. I would say basic swarms would also be too good for the amount of skill required, and advanced and proto swarms are excluded from the argument. You have to dedicate time and skill points (to some degree), as well as a little more ISK in order to use them. For those you deserve to get pretty good damage output for what you put in, and if you're a dumb enough pilot to repeatedly engage them then you probably deserve to die. That being said, if I'm flying an ADS and someone decides to pull out Militia Swams and engage me, I now have a very large problem, especially if the game glitches out and the swarms coming at me are invisible, or if two or three people have the idea together. They don't do a large amount of damage per volly, but they do have a large impact on my ability to fly and even more so on my ability to aim; I'm now suddenly pointed a different direction and potentially taking damage from a source I haven't even located yet. Now if I start flying away from the area, I'm almost guaranteed a second volley, and if they manage to lock a third one before I'm out of range then I'm in trouble. After all that happens, I don't even really have the option to engage again, because now they're watching for me, the moment I fly back over to where the swarms are, the volleys with come in larger numbers and I will die without even getting the chance to aim at someone. Keep in mind this argument really only stands for beginner and maybe some of the lower teir intermediate players. It would be dumb to argue that an experienced pilot with a decked out ADS will have any issue with militia swarms, but then we're not talking about Mr. 1337 here. At the same time, Mr. 1337 should really be paired up with people that are more on par with his skill level, and if people his skill level are trying to take him down with Militia Swarms, then they probably deserve to die at his hands until someone brings out some better AV.
Union118 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 214	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:17:00 - [46] - Quote Pagl1u M wrote: The problem with that weapon is that it is too effective for the skill it needs. I mean personal skill, I dont mean SP investment. I could give the DS3 to a 3 yeas old idiot and he could be a great swarmer, you only need to have one working hand. While being way too easy to be used it is very rewarding, even the militia Swarm launcher can make a Python run away in fear. I'm not talking about the greatest pylots of the game obviously, I'm sure snugglz or derrith or the other great pylots don't have all these problems but a normal pylot gets his ass destroyed by every idiot embracing a militia swarm launcher. The problem is the personal skill required. At the same level of skill the swarmer will destroy the poor pylot without any effort. Being so easy the swarm launcher should be way less efficient. I dont have problems with FG or rail tanks or plasma cannons, they require a little bit of skill to be used so there is a fair fight between the pylot and the other guy. The swarmer only need to be able to press R1. Is it just me sucking? Its you and only you. Swarms are fine. You suck. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
Shaco Mordekaiser Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:19:00 - [47] - Quote DRAKEST HOUR wrote: Hey everybody! Why can't I just fly around in my dropship unchallenged while slaughtering infantry? This game is broken! Swarms were useless for a long time and now that they have a little bite back ADS pilots QQ about having to be cautious of their surroundings. I'm sorry Origonal Poster but I have no sympathy for you and do not regard your complaint as valid, so I will not be arguing statistical balancing points with you. Plus you are the one that decide to start a QQ thread and asked if anyone thinks this problem you are having is related to you "sucking". Well sir, my opinion is that the issue is more about your "suck" factor than the individual skill required by a swarm user. Dude go away. You're following this thread literally for the purpose of antagonizing the OP and shouting "QQ you're bad". If you're going to be active in the community, why not try being constructive and intelligent, rather than just a raging ****?
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2369	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:21:00 - [48] - Quote Do away with lock range, increase flight time slightly and make the missile swarm player guided but AV only damage (no damage to infantry), would that make you happy? Amarr/Minmatar vehicles are OP (especially Minmatar speed tanks) ^The reason why CCP is afraid to release them
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1432	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:21:00 - [49] - Quote Cheydinhal Guard wrote: The popular belief is that SLs take much less skill because they lack one of the requirements of the other AV weapons, which is decent aim. The SL may not require aim per se, but it has tons of other skillfull requirements in order to properly destroy other vehicles. I rarely see Swarms that aren't PRO tier, yet I see FGs of all types. Starter fit SLs are a non factor. Swarms are most commonly used due to 1. New players are introduced to them first with the Anti-Armor fit. As useless as it is for higher tiered vehicles, it's still somewhat useful against LAVs and such. 2. Swarms can be fit on a wider variety of suits. Think: why properly spec into a heavy suit and have to lug around a Forge gun when you can fit your Wyrkomi swarms on a med or light frame and go to work? It's less effective, but it's fine for chasing away that pesky ADS or HAV. Swarms don't even have the killing power of other types of AV. Who would you like to have on your side? Two PRO forge gunners, or two PRO SL users? Ehh knowing you, you would rather have two PLCers. Pssh... Do you think the other forms of AV don't require these skills? Add Aiming while using these skills and the other skills are much harder. As for #2, if you can fit the SL onto a wider variety of suits, and you claim this is why the SL is more effective, than why isn't the PLC used at least sometimes against HAVs, even if it's a shield based one? Oh yeah, because swarms are more effective due to aiming not being needed, with no particular drawbacks. As for your last point, what if the 2 SL users had a commando suit? And also, it wouldn't matter, as the tank or dropship would be dead anyway. However, I would choose the swarms as with the forges, I run the risk of one of them missing the vehicle. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3484	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:24:00 - [50] - Quote The skill in swarming revolves around surviving long enough to kill the vehicles, as well as time your swarms and make sure they don't hit buildings. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1626	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:27:00 - [51] - Quote What I found to be ridiculous was Uprising 1.7. Pray tell, if tanks are sooo bad and swarms are sooo good, how is it that Milkman and Addict Punk manage to stomp Ambush after Ambush with them?
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 3648	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:27:00 - [52] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: shaman oga wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w Really interesting. Sooo... What should I get out of it? Swarms are good right now because they give a simple solution, and Forge and PLC should be buffed? Or swarms should be nerfed because they're easy and effective? Noob tube is needed, but both forge and PLC are in a good spot right now imo. So keep swarms easy to use and nerf them so people need more than 1 swarm to be deadly but one is enough to scare a vehicle. Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2369	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:27:00 - [53] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: As for your last point, what if the 2 SL users had a commando suit? And also, it wouldn't matter, as the tank or dropship would be dead anyway. However, I would choose the swarms as with the forges, I run the risk of one of them missing the vehicle. With the swarms you run the risk of the missiles running into buildings. Amarr/Minmatar vehicles are OP (especially Minmatar speed tanks) ^The reason why CCP is afraid to release them
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1432	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:28:00 - [54] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The skill in swarming revolves around surviving long enough to kill the vehicles, as well as time your swarms and make sure they don't hit buildings. Again, do you think swarms are the only one with this problem? Do you think it is easier to be a swarmer or a Canoneer? Forge gunner? Swarm launchers take the least amount of skill of all the AV weapons, yet they are still better at AV than those other alternatives. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1432	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:30:00 - [55] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: What I found to be ridiculous was Uprising 1.7. Pray tell, if tanks are sooo bad and swarms are sooo good, how is it that Milkman and Addict Punk continue to stomp Ambush after Ambush with them? Pubs... and Ambush. There is no time in ambush to get organised against tanks, or even find a decent spot without being killed first. Action is just too fast paced. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
emm kay G0DS AM0NG MEN 235	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:31:00 - [56] - Quote Pagl1u M wrote: The problem with that weapon is that it is too effective for the skill it needs. I mean personal skill, I dont mean SP investment. I could give the DS3 to a 3 yeas old idiot and he could be a great swarmer, you only need to have one working hand. While being way too easy to be used it is very rewarding, even the militia Swarm launcher can make a Python run away in fear. I'm not talking about the greatest pylots of the game obviously, I'm sure snugglz or derrith or the other great pylots don't have all these problems but a normal pylot gets his ass destroyed by every idiot embracing a militia swarm launcher. The problem is the personal skill required. At the same level of skill the swarmer will destroy the poor pylot without any effort. Being so easy the swarm launcher should be way less efficient. I dont have problems with FG or rail tanks or plasma cannons, they require a little bit of skill to be used so there is a fair fight between the pylot and the other guy. The swarmer only need to be able to press R1. Is it just me sucking? it's not swarms, it's the vehicle. There is a reason you never see me in battle. it's because I see you first.
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 460	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:45:00 - [57] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: The popular belief is that SLs take much less skill because they lack one of the requirements of the other AV weapons, which is decent aim. The SL may not require aim per se, but it has tons of other skillfull requirements in order to properly destroy other vehicles. I rarely see Swarms that aren't PRO tier, yet I see FGs of all types. Starter fit SLs are a non factor. Swarms are most commonly used due to 1. New players are introduced to them first with the Anti-Armor fit. As useless as it is for higher tiered vehicles, it's still somewhat useful against LAVs and such. 2. Swarms can be fit on a wider variety of suits. Think: why properly spec into a heavy suit and have to lug around a Forge gun when you can fit your Wyrkomi swarms on a med or light frame and go to work? It's less effective, but it's fine for chasing away that pesky ADS or HAV. Swarms don't even have the killing power of other types of AV. Who would you like to have on your side? Two PRO forge gunners, or two PRO SL users? Ehh knowing you, you would rather have two PLCers. Pssh... Do you think the other forms of AV don't require these skills? Add Aiming while using these skills and the other skills are much harder. As for #2, if you can fit the SL onto a wider variety of suits, and you claim this is why the SL is more effective, than why isn't the PLC used at least sometimes against HAVs, even if it's a shield based one? Oh yeah, because swarms are more effective due to aiming not being needed, with no particular drawbacks. As for your last point, what if the 2 SL users had a commando suit? And also, it wouldn't matter, as the tank or dropship would be dead anyway. However, I would choose the swarms as with the forges, I run the risk of one of them missing the vehicle. You also run the risk of the vehicle escaping you're 175m of range, whereas the Forge gunners are good up to 300m. You also run the risk of your missiles running into terrain, which is equivalent to missing. The missiles are also much slower than a FG shot, increasing the odds of your pray escaping. Swarms on a Min Commando are a completely different story. Actually, it's the only way to use SLs to their full potential. How is this in any way lacking of skill? And have you forgotten that PLCs get a damage buff on Gal Commandos? They aren't overshadowed by SLs. They are much more effective towards shield vehicles, along with the fact that they have a more balanced damage profile. I guess people aren't as open to them because they were a laughing stock for a year. Did you use them before the buff? Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 462	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:04:00 - [58] - Quote Atiim wrote: I will say that I find it amusing how people complain about SLs not having to aim yet only 3 weapons in which actually require you to aim. I won't even bother writing essays at this point, but I must ask one thing: If you were to find a 3 year old child and gave him even an Officer SL, do you honestly believe s/he could destroy my tank? If so, how much ISK are you willing to bet? 100mil? 250mil? 350mil? 500mil? 1bil? My three year old nephew might already communicate in a foreign language, uses iPad without difficulty, and he is pretty good skis rider.. I have not tried to give him a DS3 to hand, but it seems to me that it would not be big problem for him. IMO Swarms kills everything that somehow makes mistake, and allow swarmer to finish job. In other words this weapon do not require any magnificent skills to operate it and being successful with it, all depend on victim decision - if he gone hit some obstacles and stuck - he will die sooner or later. No matter how much swarm-club protect this weapon on forum, it always remain in 'designed to by used by complete noob's' niche. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2369	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:07:00 - [59] - Quote I remember when my 7 year old tried playing the PS3 when he was three. The major problem was his hands were too small to properly manipulate the controller. Amarr/Minmatar vehicles are OP (especially Minmatar speed tanks) ^The reason why CCP is afraid to release them
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1627	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:13:00 - [60] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: What I found to be ridiculous was Uprising 1.7. Pray tell, if tanks are sooo bad and swarms are sooo good, how is it that Milkman and Addict Punk continue to stomp Ambush after Ambush with them? Pubs... and Ambush. There is no time in ambush to get organised against tanks, or even find a decent spot without being killed first. Action is just too fast paced. Even so, if an opponent knows the tanks are coming -- and they always do -- you'd think they could spawn in start-of-match with their "ridiculously overpowered" swarms and hold their ground against two tanks. And yet. When we think about balance, we must take into account present performance of competent and tactically minded pilots. These are examples of pilots "who do it right" and in doing it right, manage to streamroll match after match at little-to-no-risk. What happens to the pilots who "do it right" if we balance V/AV to the benefit those who "do it wrong"?



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