DUST Search - [Request]How Swarms should work

Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:

Lazer Fo Cused wrote:

1. Swarms should require a laser tag i think, which means you have to keep lock on to guide the missiles instead, if laser is broken you have 5 seconds to regain lock or the missiles blow

2. SL should not be able to lock onto targets through cover or terrain

3. SL should not be able to look in a different direction and keep lock on ie you can lock on, look up and fire - It should lose lock after you look up

4. SL missiles should not be able to do a 270deg spin on the spot and instantly move again at top speed

5. SL should not be able to lock on to targets which are not inside its lock box

6. SL user should not be allowed to jump while using the weapon

7. Crash Bandicoots Wumpa launcher requires more aim than the SL currently

Its i interisting list but

1 how long would the lazer go? 400m? or the lock on range of 175? or some where in between?
2 its not that they lock on through terrian, its that the box dosent fully cover said grahpic i ahve seen may weapons shoot hills boxes, i have even seen tanks shoot through railings and swarms cant lock on through the gaps of the railing even though i can see the tank fully.
3 you loose lock after 1 second if not fired.
4 missiles do the circle of doom when a swamrer is close to a vehicle its annoying becaue at least 2 of the missiles will hit and the other 2 just explode randomly
5 i have never seen anything lock on that wasnt in a lock box that wasnt in range
6 why not? well what if tanks wernt allowed to shoot while moving? or at 1/2 armor, tanks are reduced to 1/2 base speed and injectors are off line
7 i guess but i think there crash got fined by osha or someting

There is one thing that i have noticed that no one seems to point out proto AV=/= Tank hull Proto Av = Proto turret though

comparing proto AV to a tank hull makes no sense its like saying there is no Proto AVsuit so nerf all tank turrets

its amusing how some tankers are complaining about how AV players are demanding a nerf to tanks when all ive seen are tankers sayin that AV need the nerf. NO i dont tank alot and yes i do pilot DS and ADS and when i do get shot down it because i was being a terrible pilot other than that its usualy because the myron and python cant touch anything with out loosing most of its shield but the incubus and grimeses can slam into the MCC and not loose any thing

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Grimmiers 749	Posted - 2014.12.17 17:34:00 - [1] - Quote Make it have a clip size of 4 Each missile has it's own lock on time. Make the missiles less accurate if all 4 are launched at once. This means if they miss a vehicle they won't continuously spin around it until it gets a hit. You need a state where the missile loses it's lock and flies off course. Why? Having a 12 missiles that lock on doing up to 5500 damage before you have to reload is pretty messed up for a light weapon. You reload 3 more volleys when the plasma cannon only loads 1 shot that has a good chance to miss, and can't lock on at 150m and travel 400m. It could even have a faster lock on time with this change with the choice of firing a series of single missiles, or doing a burst of 4 at once at the cost of less accuracy. First option would be good for dropships and the second for tanks and anywhere inbetween for lavs.
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14540	Posted - 2014.12.17 17:36:00 - [2] - Quote The fun part about idiotic ideas is that I don't need to argue against them, as they won't be implemented. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5461	Posted - 2014.12.17 17:41:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: The fun part about idiotic ideas is that I don't need to argue against them, as they won't be implemented. Well the part about the longer you hold the lock the more more missiles are fired is sort of interesting, even if his understanding of what he is talking about is a little off base. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Grimmiers 749	Posted - 2014.12.17 17:46:00 - [4] - Quote Atiim wrote: The fun part about idiotic ideas is that I don't need to argue against them, as they won't be implemented. What's so idiotic about it?
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1141	Posted - 2014.12.17 17:47:00 - [5] - Quote He does have a valid point: Swarms never lose their lock,and that removes skill from the equation. I can never evade a missile in my DS unless I'm hovering right next to a building and even that is not reliable (for some unknown reason.) Having some way to 'dodge' a missile and cause it to lose lock, with a possibility to reacquire, would be good. Unlikely to happen, because lolAV... Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 20291	Posted - 2014.12.17 17:54:00 - [6] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: Atiim wrote: The fun part about idiotic ideas is that I don't need to argue against them, as they won't be implemented. What's so idiotic about it? It won't make swarms hideously OP, therefore it appears idiotic to some people. Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 258	Posted - 2014.12.17 17:58:00 - [7] - Quote 1. Swarms should require a laser tag i think, which means you have to keep lock on to guide the missiles instead, if laser is broken you have 5 seconds to regain lock or the missiles blow 2. SL should not be able to lock onto targets through cover or terrain 3. SL should not be able to look in a different direction and keep lock on ie you can lock on, look up and fire - It should lose lock after you look up 4. SL missiles should not be able to do a 270deg spin on the spot and instantly move again at top speed 5. SL should not be able to lock on to targets which are not inside its lock box 6. SL user should not be allowed to jump while using the weapon 7. Crash Bandicoots Wumpa launcher requires more aim than the SL currently
XxBlazikenxX Y.A.M.A.H 0	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:00:00 - [8] - Quote I think swarms right now are pretty good, if you are a good pilot are a good driver, you don't need to worry much about a swarmer (unless there's more than one of them), but if you're stuck in a corner it's a matter of killing the guy before he kills you. What we really should be talking about is how to bring back forge guns, am I the only who's noticed that forge gunners are now virtually non-existent? How to stop a q-syncing team of 16 Fatal Absolutionists in FW: Step 1: Oh wait you're screwed
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1145	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:03:00 - [9] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: I think swarms right now are pretty good, if you are a good pilot are a good driver, you don't need to worry much about a swarmer (unless there's more than one of them), but if you're stuck in a corner it's a matter of killing the guy before he kills you. What we really should be talking about is how to bring back forge guns, am I the only who's noticed that forge gunners are now virtually non-existent? Why FGs are rare: because Swarms are vastly less difficult to operate and equally effective. Solution: make Swarma require effort to use such that they are no longer ridiculously easy point and click WP hoses. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
XxBlazikenxX Y.A.M.A.H 0	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:11:00 - [10] - Quote I see your point but you swarms are already balanced against vehicles, so the solution isn't to nerf swarms, it's to buff FGs How to stop a q-syncing team of 16 Fatal Absolutionists in FW: Step 1: Oh wait you're screwed

Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 476	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:15:00 - [11] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Grimmiers wrote: Atiim wrote: The fun part about idiotic ideas is that I don't need to argue against them, as they won't be implemented. What's so idiotic about it? It won't make swarms hideously OP, therefore it appears idiotic to some people. Lets look at the name shall we? SWARM Launchers. Meaning they have to fire in SWARMS and not one at a time while if you choose to shoot the SWARM of missiles you will loose track. Swarms only work against vehicles. So yeah, they should be the greatest thing at AV because that is its only functionality. And many of vehicle users seem to forget that we only have STD hull vehicles. Swarms have proto. So yeah, expect a proto swarm to put a dent in your STD vehicle. We should keep AV vs V like it is now until the proto tanks arrive. Then the real dicussion will start. PS: I am also a tanker and ADS pilot. Side effects of playing Dust: Emotional trauma, Anger Management issues, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and Depression
La Lore Sleipnier Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION 255	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:16:00 - [12] - Quote Grimmier i love your idea Soy una hoja al viento a merced de los elementos...
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5467	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:17:00 - [13] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: He does have a valid point: Swarms never lose their lock,and that removes skill from the equation. I can never evade a missile in my DS unless I'm hovering right next to a building and even that is not reliable (for some unknown reason.) Having some way to 'dodge' a missile and cause it to lose lock, with a possibility to reacquire, would be good. Unlikely to happen, because lolAV... Actually if there was some player skill based way of causing Swarms to lose lock during flight, that would be an interesting AV dynamic. It would have to rely on good timing or some other player skill based action though. Maybe a disruptive pules with a 50m range and a reasonably long recharge time, that would disrupt the lock on any missile inside of the 50m range. The pilot would have to time the pules for when the missiles are close enough. Of course this would require that the pilot actually know when the missiles are getting close. If the rendering issue can't be solved, maybe add a beep in the Pilot's HUD when there is an enemy Swarm Missile in the air, and have the beeping get faster as the missile gets closer. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
XxBlazikenxX Y.A.M.A.H 1	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:29:00 - [14] - Quote OMG, Fox is here! *Proceeds to put hand on head and faints How to stop a q-syncing team of 16 Fatal Absolutionists in FW: Step 1: Oh wait you're screwed
Grimmiers 752	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:36:00 - [15] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Actually if there was some player skill based way of causing Swarms to lose lock during flight, that would be an interesting AV dynamic. It would have to rely on good timing or some other player skill based action though. Perhaps an active profile dampener for vehicles? Then we can make our own black ops vehicles; if only our headlights weren't always on.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2577	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:42:00 - [16] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: I think swarms right now are pretty good, if you are a good pilot are a good driver, you don't need to worry much about a swarmer (unless there's more than one of them), but if you're stuck in a corner it's a matter of killing the guy before he kills you. What we really should be talking about is how to bring back forge guns, am I the only who's noticed that forge gunners are now virtually non-existent? lol ok You obviously don't know what it's like in a tank. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4027	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:50:00 - [17] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Actually if there was some player skill based way of causing Swarms to lose lock during flight, that would be an interesting AV dynamic. It would have to rely on good timing or some other player skill based action though. Perhaps an active profile dampener for vehicles? Then we can make our own black ops vehicles; if only our headlights weren't always on. ECM Burst is what you're looking for. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Vesta Opalus Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 256	Posted - 2014.12.17 19:45:00 - [18] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: I think swarms right now are pretty good, if you are a good pilot are a good driver, you don't need to worry much about a swarmer (unless there's more than one of them), but if you're stuck in a corner it's a matter of killing the guy before he kills you. What we really should be talking about is how to bring back forge guns, am I the only who's noticed that forge gunners are now virtually non-existent? I see forge gunners all the time, about equal to swarms as far as I can tell. Im sure ccp has data on it though thats more accurate than either of our anecdotal experiences.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16051	Posted - 2014.12.17 20:35:00 - [19] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: Make it have a clip size of 4 Each missile has it's own lock on time and consumes 1 shot of the clip. Make the missiles less accurate if all 4 are launched at once. This means if they miss a vehicle they won't continuously spin around it until it gets a hit. You need a state where the missile loses it's lock and flies off course. Why? Having a 12 missiles that lock on doing up to 5500 damage before you have to reload is pretty messed up for a light weapon. You reload 3 more volleys when the plasma cannon only loads 1 shot that has a good chance to miss, and can't lock on at 150m and travel 400m. It could even have a faster lock on time with this change with the choice of firing a series of single missiles, or doing a burst of 4 at once at the cost of less accuracy. First option would be good for dropships and the second for ground vehicles. Examples of missiles in EVE are Alpha weapons...... *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16051	Posted - 2014.12.17 20:37:00 - [20] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: I think swarms right now are pretty good, if you are a good pilot are a good driver, you don't need to worry much about a swarmer (unless there's more than one of them), but if you're stuck in a corner it's a matter of killing the guy before he kills you. What we really should be talking about is how to bring back forge guns, am I the only who's noticed that forge gunners are now virtually non-existent? lol ok You obviously don't know what it's like in a tank. In Shield HAV you can ignore swarms...... In Armour HAV you have no chance. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.

Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 161	Posted - 2014.12.17 22:16:00 - [21] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. Swarms should require a laser tag i think, which means you have to keep lock on to guide the missiles instead, if laser is broken you have 5 seconds to regain lock or the missiles blow 2. SL should not be able to lock onto targets through cover or terrain 3. SL should not be able to look in a different direction and keep lock on ie you can lock on, look up and fire - It should lose lock after you look up 4. SL missiles should not be able to do a 270deg spin on the spot and instantly move again at top speed 5. SL should not be able to lock on to targets which are not inside its lock box 6. SL user should not be allowed to jump while using the weapon 7. Crash Bandicoots Wumpa launcher requires more aim than the SL currently Its i interisting list but 1 how long would the lazer go? 400m? or the lock on range of 175? or some where in between? 2 its not that they lock on through terrian, its that the box dosent fully cover said grahpic i ahve seen may weapons shoot hills boxes, i have even seen tanks shoot through railings and swarms cant lock on through the gaps of the railing even though i can see the tank fully. 3 you loose lock after 1 second if not fired. 4 missiles do the circle of doom when a swamrer is close to a vehicle its annoying becaue at least 2 of the missiles will hit and the other 2 just explode randomly 5 i have never seen anything lock on that wasnt in a lock box that wasnt in range 6 why not? well what if tanks wernt allowed to shoot while moving? or at 1/2 armor, tanks are reduced to 1/2 base speed and injectors are off line 7 i guess but i think there crash got fined by osha or someting There is one thing that i have noticed that no one seems to point out proto AV=/= Tank hull Proto Av = Proto turret though comparing proto AV to a tank hull makes no sense its like saying there is no Proto AVsuit so nerf all tank turrets its amusing how some tankers are complaining about how AV players are demanding a nerf to tanks when all ive seen are tankers sayin that AV need the nerf. NO i dont tank alot and yes i do pilot DS and ADS and when i do get shot down it because i was being a terrible pilot other than that its usualy because the myron and python cant touch anything with out loosing most of its shield but the incubus and grimeses can slam into the MCC and not loose any thing The Little Girl with the HMG
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5473	Posted - 2014.12.18 00:29:00 - [22] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Grimmiers wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Actually if there was some player skill based way of causing Swarms to lose lock during flight, that would be an interesting AV dynamic. It would have to rely on good timing or some other player skill based action though. Perhaps an active profile dampener for vehicles? Then we can make our own black ops vehicles; if only our headlights weren't always on. ECM Burst is what you're looking for. Only reason I did not call it that was that ECM Burst suggests it would also take out Uplinks, and something that could take out every Uplink within a 50m radius would be OP. So, better if it is just a signal that throws off the targeting lock. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7480	Posted - 2014.12.18 08:34:00 - [23] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: I think swarms right now are pretty good, if you are a good pilot are a good driver, you don't need to worry much about a swarmer (unless there's more than one of them), but if you're stuck in a corner it's a matter of killing the guy before he kills you. What we really should be talking about is how to bring back forge guns, am I the only who's noticed that forge gunners are now virtually non-existent? lol ok You obviously don't know what it's like in a tank. In Shield HAV you can ignore swarms...... In Armour HAV you have no chance. For real. Those dual hardeners are damn near invincible. Long-Term Roadmap More Hard Questions
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5833	Posted - 2014.12.18 10:40:00 - [24] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. Swarms should require a laser tag i think, which means you have to keep lock on to guide the missiles instead, if laser is broken you have 5 seconds to regain lock or the missiles blow 2. SL should not be able to lock onto targets through cover or terrain 3. SL should not be able to look in a different direction and keep lock on ie you can lock on, look up and fire - It should lose lock after you look up 4. SL missiles should not be able to do a 270deg spin on the spot and instantly move again at top speed 5. SL should not be able to lock on to targets which are not inside its lock box 6. SL user should not be allowed to jump while using the weapon Oddly enough I agree with this post on all points. I have never fired the wumpa launcher so I cannot comment on that. This post is remarkably in line with how I have suggested that the swarm launcher operate in the past. Getting a lock through a hill is particularly stupid. May I add that swarms should actually beeline toward the target rather than match it's trajectory so that putting a wall between you and the missiles becomes valid tactic? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1421	Posted - 2014.12.18 12:21:00 - [25] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Grimmiers wrote: Atiim wrote: The fun part about idiotic ideas is that I don't need to argue against them, as they won't be implemented. What's so idiotic about it? It won't make swarms hideously OP, therefore it appears idiotic to some people. looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool get served Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1150	Posted - 2014.12.18 12:40:00 - [26] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: For real. Those dual hardeners are damn near invincible. It's almost as if a weapon designed to destroy armour that's weak against shields suffers immensely when someone fits two limited duration modules and then runs them simultaneously! It would be crazy to think that an armour biased weapon should be like a wet noodle against fully tanked shields [Not that I think you were complaining necessarily, but that kind of thinking seems to be endemic to the forums.] Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 261	Posted - 2014.12.18 15:47:00 - [27] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. Swarms should require a laser tag i think, which means you have to keep lock on to guide the missiles instead, if laser is broken you have 5 seconds to regain lock or the missiles blow 2. SL should not be able to lock onto targets through cover or terrain 3. SL should not be able to look in a different direction and keep lock on ie you can lock on, look up and fire - It should lose lock after you look up 4. SL missiles should not be able to do a 270deg spin on the spot and instantly move again at top speed 5. SL should not be able to lock on to targets which are not inside its lock box 6. SL user should not be allowed to jump while using the weapon 7. Crash Bandicoots Wumpa launcher requires more aim than the SL currently Its i interisting list but 1 how long would the lazer go? 400m? or the lock on range of 175? or some where in between? 2 its not that they lock on through terrian, its that the box dosent fully cover said grahpic i ahve seen may weapons shoot hills boxes, i have even seen tanks shoot through railings and swarms cant lock on through the gaps of the railing even though i can see the tank fully. 3 you loose lock after 1 second if not fired. 4 missiles do the circle of doom when a swamrer is close to a vehicle its annoying becaue at least 2 of the missiles will hit and the other 2 just explode randomly 5 i have never seen anything lock on that wasnt in a lock box that wasnt in range 6 why not? well what if tanks wernt allowed to shoot while moving? or at 1/2 armor, tanks are reduced to 1/2 base speed and injectors are off line 7 i guess but i think there crash got fined by osha or someting There is one thing that i have noticed that no one seems to point out proto AV=/= Tank hull Proto Av = Proto turret though comparing proto AV to a tank hull makes no sense its like saying there is no Proto AVsuit so nerf all tank turrets its amusing how some tankers are complaining about how AV players are demanding a nerf to tanks when all ive seen are tankers sayin that AV need the nerf. NO i dont tank alot and yes i do pilot DS and ADS and when i do get shot down it because i was being a terrible pilot other than that its usualy because the myron and python cant touch anything with out loosing most of its shield but the incubus and grimeses can slam into the MCC and not loose any thing 1. With laser tagging it could be upto 400m but the problem is keeping the lock but with current scale of the maps 400m is in Domination is the majority of the map and same again with Skirmish 2. In my experience i can lock on aslong as the box is there to lock on to 3. Enough time to look up and fire, you should lose lock automatically if you look away from your target 4. Missiles shouldnt do that anyways 5. Its defo a bug but can be used to the SL users advantage 6. HAVs are made to fire while on the move but you dont see ISIS jump up and down when firing an RPG at something 7. I stopped after Crash 3, they actually made 6 or 7 in total 8. Its been said before - Basic hull plus PROTO modules and turrets but sometimes you cannot fit all proto on yet on the vast majority of my infantry suits i can have PROTO everything - Generally opponents will say 'Tiercide' but notice how the vast majority of infantry do not want tiercide for infantry but want it for vehicles - Either its tiercide for all or pilots get adv/proto vehicles
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 420	Posted - 2014.12.18 16:40:00 - [28] - Quote The SL needs to be left allone, for a simple reason. It's the only valid infantry medium range weapon for light frames. It's pretty strong against armour, and it's pretty weak against shields. Until we have a light anti shield weapon, that does similar damage in similar ranges, the SL is fine as is. It's not perfect, but we can't balance it without a anti shield alternative. The PLC is no such alternative, since it's too situational. The other thing is the upcoming changes with proto vehicles coming back. These will leave infantry in the dust again, if there is no counter to them, that can be easily fielded. Finally, the lock on vehicles, is broken fast if you go for cover, this means, that you have to fly low, instead of high, to evade swarms, and it means you are dead, if your tank gets stuck in the terrain. If this is your problem as a vehicle guy, you might go back to driving school. The Vehicle specialists of the top corps usually do not complain, since they know, with the right fit, and maxed vehicle skills, SL's are not a problem right now.
Grimmiers 752	Posted - 2014.12.18 17:02:00 - [29] - Quote @Mad Syringe The new vehicle variants coming out are not proto. I get what you're saying, but the problem with vehicles right now are how broken regen is. There's the shields repairing through damage because each missile didn't break the threshold. The shield regen needs to stop if the damaged received in 1 second is above the threshold. Then there's armor tanks which should only be able to do what their currently doing with a repair logi. Warpoint repair and maybe even a module/plate that boost remote repair rates would make armor rep tanking more interesting. Passive reps should only be viable on things fast enough to get away, not something you can use to stand and deliver. If vehicle based ttk was ironed out alpha type av wouldn't be the only viable option.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1155	Posted - 2014.12.18 17:03:00 - [30] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: The other thing is the upcoming changes with proto vehicles coming back. These will leave infantry in the dust again, if there is no counter to them, that can be easily fielded. PRO vehicles aren't coming back. If you paid any attention to the feedback thread Rattati put up, the intention is for Marauders/Enforcers to be side grades, not higher tiers such that your statement is essentially void. Mad Syringe wrote: Finally, the lock on vehicles, is broken fast if you go for cover, this means, that you have to fly low, instead of high, to evade swarms, and it means you are dead, if your tank gets stuck in the terrain. If this is your problem as a vehicle guy, you might go back to driving school. For HAVs this is almost good advice, but for dropships it's dumb advice. Flying close to buildings is almost a death sentence because swarms don't obey physics: anecdotally, I have been using a building for cover to pop up-shoot-drop down but the enemy swarms just loop up and over the building. Being near a building carries the very extant risk of being slammed into it, which will often either just kill you outright or magnetise you to it, making you dead meat for the swarmer. Frankly, swarms are so easy to operate and the only way for a DS to evade is to just run immediately before they can fire the fourth volley. A DS can survive a full clip of swarms, but it requires certain fits and still relies on an immediate neutralisation of the Swarmer or else you're forced to flee. Mad Syringe wrote: The Vehicle specialists of the top corps usually do not complain, since they know, with the right fit, and maxed vehicle skills, SL's are not a problem right now. Or, y'know, they have the coordinated support of a full team and that PC battles are entirely different boxes of frogs. Simply, swarms are more effective than a forge gun because of the ease of operation and near perfect application of damage. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.



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