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Tank Repping Is Out Of Control

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Clone D Grundstein Automation 1067	Posted - 2014.12.16 19:17:00 - [31] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: You're not presenting anything decent. That much AV can't destroy a pair of tanks? That's a flat out lie. That's what, 10,000 damage if everything from all sources hits at the same time? That's a huge lie. It's not decent, it's not reasonable, it's a big fat lie. I participated in it and watched it happen. Now we know the following: 1. Not all AVers attack simultaneously. 2. Rep mods repair the tank passively and constantly. 3. The AVers spread their attacks between two tanks because they were not in communication with each other. 4. The AVers may have been using varying levels of weaponry. 5. There is synergy between two tanks, just as there is synergy between two soldiers. 6. If AVers attempt to move across an open space, then they will most likely be destroyed by an 80GJ blaster, so their movement is restricted. 7. Not all swarms strike the target due to vehicle movement. 8. Not all forge blasts strike the target due to vehicle movement. 9. While swarmers are taking time to lock on, tanks are repping and shooting. 10. Tank turrets can turn and kill an AVer before the weapon is charged or completely locked on. The encounter that I experienced was either the perfect storm or evidence of the power of two repper maddies working together. I have witnessed similar situations before, so I am inclined to think that 2+ cooperating repper maddies cannot be remedied by infantry alone. ISK Trader channel: blitz
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 1030	Posted - 2014.12.16 19:17:00 - [32] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Clone D wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: As if it hasn't already been nerfed in 1.8. HTFU or find another game. I'm tired of this BS. Let's hold a decent conversation, shall we. In your opinion, how many players should be required to take down a tank? What is a reasonable amount of time to complete a tank kill? DON'T ENGAGE HIM! Why, because I won't budge on my position? Naw i actually respect you for your dedication to vehicles. But your presentation of the matter and social grace in it usually make everyone cringe. Isn't there a feedback thread you should be all over right now? Fack it, might as well board the hype-train again. At least there's tracks this time.
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14497	Posted - 2014.12.16 19:19:00 - [33] - Quote All 6 of those AVers were bad, and should feel bad. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3939	Posted - 2014.12.16 19:19:00 - [34] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Harpyja wrote: I'm just going to say this and leave. On my alt with only standard swarms and standard AV grenades, I can easily solo Somas and Sicas. I'd imagine if I were to actually invest heavily into AV and get proto swarms with 4s and 5s in the swarm launcher skill tree, I'd imagine I'd put on some serious hurt to proto-fit Maddies. So, I don't know what to tell you. You're either overstating the facts or the two tankers were incredibly skilled and the other AV people were beginners. Skilled tankers know how to effeftively balance incoming damage from multiple sources. Don't ask for nerfs just because there are a few skilled people that really know what they're doing. No, he's lying. Look at how many people he's trying to present. I'm terrible at math, but all sources hit at the same time, that's around 10,000 damage in a second. With triple rep, there's no damage attenuation. Even still, with an experimental one plate and 2 hardeners, it still probably wouldn't survive. 5k DMG from mlt swarms no sp. 2.4k DMG mlt forge no sp (didn't calculate armor DMG for forge) 7.4k for mlt no sp probably closer to 8k no skills. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1600	Posted - 2014.12.16 19:20:00 - [35] - Quote Nah tank reps are nowhere near impregnable. IF at long range where tank can control it's position AND IF tank has cover like a building then yes it is very likely that you can't kill tank as you are fighting it on it's own terms. Exposing himself only when he has enough HP or hardeners ready. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 626	Posted - 2014.12.16 19:22:00 - [36] - Quote I'm not going to be accusatory, because i can think of some scenarios where this could play out. 1) Most of the swarms were militia grade, or firing from a fixed point, say a rooftop or pipe, instead of chasing down armor tanks they just let off AV rounds from a "safe point". 2) Bad forge gun aim 3) Fighting armor tanks that knew how to use cover. Swarm launch in their direction and they back up behind a rock or crate to absorb the hit, peek forward again, shoot, and rock backwards under fire. On Line harvest (with the barns above objective C and D) it has areas that have great cover for tanks. Sorry, but its the AV that were extremely bad in this scenario, not the fault of either the tanks or the Devs, as welll as some good tankers that knew how to drive. If you're saying they just stood still and out reppped damage, however, you are clearly lying. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
abdullah muzaffar G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 97	Posted - 2014.12.16 19:28:00 - [37] - Quote Atiim wrote: All 6 of those AVers were bad, and should feel bad. 2 ishy shots from behind and they're rekt.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2544	Posted - 2014.12.16 19:29:00 - [38] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Clone D wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: As if it hasn't already been nerfed in 1.8. HTFU or find another game. I'm tired of this BS. Let's hold a decent conversation, shall we. In your opinion, how many players should be required to take down a tank? What is a reasonable amount of time to complete a tank kill? DON'T ENGAGE HIM! Why, because I won't budge on my position? Naw i actually respect you for your dedication to vehicles. But your presentation of the matter and social grace in it usually make everyone cringe. Isn't there a feedback thread you should be all over right now? I'm crass because infantry always wants vehicles nerfed and AV buffed. That's their opinion on "balance." The reps were already nerfed once exactly for the reason he's complaining. As I said, it's about 10,000 damage hitting a tank at once, and they're not going to survive that. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Midas Fool Prophets of the Velocirapture 543	Posted - 2014.12.16 19:30:00 - [39] - Quote Obvious troll or obvious idiot (and liar). Which would you prefer to be? [Ironically generic forum signature here]
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 20267	Posted - 2014.12.16 19:32:00 - [40] - Quote Triple rep maddies are amongst the easiest tanks to kill. Hell, I've killed them with plasma cannons. How are you not killing them with six anti-armour AV weapons? You could alpha them with that much damage. Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.

Clone D Grundstein Automation 1068	Posted - 2014.12.16 19:36:00 - [41] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: Obvious troll or obvious idiot (and liar). Which would you prefer to be? None, I am merely describing what happened. ISK Trader channel: blitz
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15977	Posted - 2014.12.16 20:05:00 - [42] - Quote Clone D wrote: True Adamance wrote: You are bad AVers then. There is literally no way a Madrugar can get away with than unless you are ******* up unbelievably. I easily single handedly popped a missile tank that was originally in the bunch. I was watching those maddies get spanked with ballista to no avail, though. Have you ever thought that perhaps the combination of 2 repper maddies is the powerhouse? There is synergy. Focus Fire bro. If I can down a Maddy with a Wyrkomi Swarm, 2 damage mods, and no proficiency so can you.....and I'm a garbage infantryman..... *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Nirwanda Vaughns 1058	Posted - 2014.12.16 20:10:00 - [43] - Quote also, vehicles and AV would be fine, if we had gallente swarms and forge guns so we had viable AV vs shields. as it is a good swarmer can probably solo a maddy due to the high damage vs armour whereas it can take several swarms to take down a gunloggi/python. tbh with the high damage vs armour maddys are pretty weak, all AV is pretty much geared towards armour with only PLC and Flux nades receiving bonus vs shields, so all that proficiency you have in your MD, Forge and Swarms is doing jack s*t vs shields whereas a poor armour tanker will get thrashed by them. the tanks in the discussion where probs either farming points or the swarms/forge were low level with no damage mods because if you had a couple good forger gunners they'd be gone in a few rounds, theres a difference between a player using a forge gun and a player being a forge gunner Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner*
Everything Dies Santa is coming...FOR BLOOD 1147	Posted - 2014.12.16 20:15:00 - [44] - Quote Simple answer would be that the swarms weren't hitting. I have a double-repped Maddy that packs a whopping...200hp/s. Sure, I can deal with single AVers, but even with my hardener activated a second swarmer is all it takes to wreck my tank. Hell, the only thing saving Maddys right now is that swarms only get three shots per clip (excluding the officer variant) otherwise there's no way to rep through that much damage in an armor tank. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 710	Posted - 2014.12.16 20:15:00 - [45] - Quote Verdict has been reached: OP is a liar and/or unskilled AV player. /thread. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
Clone D Grundstein Automation 1068	Posted - 2014.12.16 20:22:00 - [46] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: Verdict has been reached: OP is a liar and/or unskilled AV player. /thread. Dude, I don't know why you would write that about me. We have squadded together, so you've seen that I am a level-headed down to earth guy. I am just describing what happened that match. I'm not asking to nerf anything. ISK Trader channel: blitz
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15977	Posted - 2014.12.16 20:27:00 - [47] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: also, vehicles and AV would be fine, if we had gallente swarms and forge guns so we had viable AV vs shields. as it is a good swarmer can probably solo a maddy due to the high damage vs armour whereas it can take several swarms to take down a gunloggi/python. tbh with the high damage vs armour maddys are pretty weak, all AV is pretty much geared towards armour with only PLC and Flux nades receiving bonus vs shields, so all that proficiency you have in your MD, Forge and Swarms is doing jack s*t vs shields whereas a poor armour tanker will get thrashed by them. the tanks in the discussion where probs either farming points or the swarms/forge were low level with no damage mods because if you had a couple good forger gunners they'd be gone in a few rounds, theres a difference between a player using a forge gun and a player being a forge gunner Gallenteans are the only race in New Eden that does not have a ship specifically designed to use missiles.....oddly enough. Gunnlogi as we already know are broken as hell due to their 15% better Hardeners, 10-20% natural resists vs most AV forms, rapid passive regen, superior fitting stats, higher eHP total, and better mobility values. I'm currently testing a "Blarpy" Gunnlogi fit based of the Null Sec Harpy designed for peak ISK efficiency and maximum DPS vs Shield HAV if they try to deploy one to take me down. It works nicely 1v1 but not vs multiple tanks. "He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2279	Posted - 2014.12.16 20:35:00 - [48] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Clone D wrote: If the designers intended to allow invincible vehicles, they have succeeded. I just left a match where 4 swarmers and 2 forgers constantly bombarded 2 repper maddies for a full ten minutes while the maddies remained in the same area and pulvarized troops. I have never seen blueberry AV teamwork like that before, but it certainly went unrewarded. I also remember hearing discussions about vehicle destruction requiring teamwork. Apparently in this case, we should have interpreted teamwork as literally meaning "Get EVERYONE on the team to go AV" You are bad AVers then. There is literally no way a Madrugar can get away with than unless you are ******* up unbelievably. Do not go gentle into that good night; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2672	Posted - 2014.12.16 20:57:00 - [49] - Quote I really wish they'd buff the Forge base damage a bit, or at least make the weak spot critical damage bonus a bit higher. Swarms are so easy-mode compared to FG which has to consider projectile travel time vs target movement, and yet my Ishukone Assault with 2 damage mods and Prof. V feels so much weaker and less effective than Proto swarms. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Operative 1174 Uuali The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 180	Posted - 2014.12.16 21:01:00 - [50] - Quote Clone D wrote: Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: I sat right in front of a swarmer with my maddie trying to anoot him as he hopped around. My hits registered only once. I wanted to see how long it took for him to take me out vs. my blaster to actually connect. He took me out just fine. Maddies are not immortal. Your experiment does not match the conditions of my explanation. There were 2 repping maddies. Together the appeared to be an unstoppable force. What are you talking about? Were they remote repping? That isn't even in the game anymore unless they are hopping out and rep tooling or they have someone rep tooling them. Two tanks are the same as one. They are only repping themselves. Are you saying that you were trying to take on two at the same time? Did they shoot you down or are you just complaining that you couldn't get your easy kills? Were they actually causing trouble otherwise while sitting there laughing at you or did you actually keep them occupied and therefore not a threat to the rest of the team? I don't see a problem other than a CoD player complaining that he didn't get his points from a kill. If you kept them focused on you or moving around so as not to just sit and fire directly on an objective then you have done an admirable job. Contact Atiim for not getting your kills. He mans the AV no kill cry hotline. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15979	Posted - 2014.12.16 21:19:00 - [51] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: I really wish they'd buff the Forge base damage a bit, or at least make the weak spot critical damage bonus a bit higher. Swarms are so easy-mode compared to FG which has to consider projectile travel time vs target movement, and yet my Ishukone Assault with 2 damage mods and Prof. V feels so much weaker and less effective than Proto swarms. Definitely in some respects. I am used to watching a tank die in one hit in a critical area like the glaces plate, rear radiator, or the ammunition compartment in War Thunder and I do think there needs to be a significant penalty for having your HAV hit in a weak point such as this. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Operative 1174 Uuali The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 180	Posted - 2014.12.16 21:27:00 - [52] - Quote Clone D wrote: Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: No, Speaks is right. We've already gone over all this before. It is like a broken record. CCP rebalanced vehicles only to then have to nerf them back where they were and then buffed AV and now we're somewhere between nerf it or buff it again depending on what aspect is under discussion. CCP doesn't know how to balance this game, nerfing and buffing weapons wasn't even what this game was mainly supposed to be about, tanks should be gods, infantry should stay indoors, uplinks can still be used, this is what you get for designing for the console. If infantry should stay indoors, then why are half of the objectives in open areas with little/no cover from tank fire? I only wonder if the rep modules are too strong. That seems to be what is creating the invincibility. If that is the intention, then so be it. A buttload of objective are not in the open. The ones that are is giving the team with the tank a chance to cap it if otherwise it was hard to cap it or hold other objectives with just infantry. You have to think about the big picture. If you are trying to havk an outdoor objective alone and a tank is firing on you and no one is supporting you with AV or additional hacks then you are doing it wrong. Look at the match as a whole. Are you winning otherwise? Is your team holding at least two objectives? Is the other team finding it hard to hold those objectives? Are you scaring the tank off so at it at least has to move around? Are the tanks actually making a difference or just killi random infantry? Several times there are tanks on the field and they mean nothing. You getting shot by one due to being out and about or not getting them as a kill does not mean the tank is the problem. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 2025	Posted - 2014.12.16 21:32:00 - [53] - Quote Were these blueberries concentrating fire on a single target? Or were they dividing their fire between the two? What kind of av were they using? Milita? Standard? Advanced? Proto? How far away from the targets were they? Were the tanks taking fire for one another? Did they have easily available cover to roll behind if they took to much damage? Something isn't right with your observation, one or more of these would explain why these blues couldn't take out these tanks. Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6393	Posted - 2014.12.16 21:34:00 - [54] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Clone D wrote: If the designers intended to allow invincible vehicles, they have succeeded. I just left a match where 4 swarmers and 2 forgers constantly bombarded 2 repper maddies for a full ten minutes while the maddies remained in the same area and pulvarized troops. I have never seen blueberry AV teamwork like that before, but it certainly went unrewarded. I also remember hearing discussions about vehicle destruction requiring teamwork. Apparently in this case, we should have interpreted teamwork as literally meaning "Get EVERYONE on the team to go AV" As if it hasn't already been nerfed in 1.8. HTFU or find another game. I'm tired of this BS. No surprises here. Tank reps need to have a limit. (Effectiveness Stacking Penalty) NERF THE F* OUT OF THEM. Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress** o7
Clone D Grundstein Automation 1069	Posted - 2014.12.16 21:35:00 - [55] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: What are you talking about? Were they remote repping? That isn't even in the game anymore unless they are hopping out and rep tooling or they have someone rep tooling them. Two tanks are the same as one. They are only repping themselves. Are you saying that you were trying to take on two at the same time? Did they shoot you down or are you just complaining that you couldn't get your easy kills? Were they actually causing trouble otherwise while sitting there laughing at you or did you actually keep them occupied and therefore not a threat to the rest of the team? I don't see a problem other than a CoD player complaining that he didn't get his points from a kill. If you kept them focused on you or moving around so as not to just sit and fire directly on an objective then you have done an admirable job. Contact Atiim for not getting your kills. He mans the AV no kill cry hotline. I'm simply explaining what I observed. I'll add more info since the OP may not have been clear enough. Two repper tanks on objective D (surrounded by the hexagonal crates, and 2 water towers on either side, with an embankment between D and A). No other enemy presence. Originally there was a missile tank with them, but I made quick work of that. Repper tanks proceeded to eradicate friendlies in the area. 6 team members went AV: 4 on a nearby rooftop (above A), 1 on a nearby water tower, I went on foot and chased them down as they drove around massacring. What blew my mind was how much firepower was hitting those tanks, and they were driving around like it was no problem. I watched them pull off into the hills a couple of times, with the intention of chasing them, but they were too fast to catch and I couldn't get across the street safely, since one always had the road covered. I've been playing dust since 1.5 or maybe a little earlier and I've never seen anything like it before. Tactically, it was very strong tank play, but I was still trying to understand why 6 AVers couldn't take them out. ISK Trader channel: blitz
Clone D Grundstein Automation 1069	Posted - 2014.12.16 21:41:00 - [56] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Were these blueberries concentrating fire on a single target? Or were they dividing their fire between the two? What kind of av were they using? Milita? Standard? Advanced? Proto? How far away from the targets were they? Were the tanks taking fire for one another? Did they have easily available cover to roll behind if they took to much damage? Something isn't right with your observation, one or more of these would explain why these blues couldn't take out these tanks. I was just a lonewolf counting AVers and watching what was going on as I joined the fight bro. I answered a few of these earlier. AVers were splitting fire between the two tanks, not concentrated on one. 4 swarms, 2 forges. I don't know what level of weapons they had. AVers were approx 80 - 100 meters from target. I was getting in at about 40 meters from target. The tanks' primary cover was the water towers and the hills. I wish I had a video of it. ISK Trader channel: blitz
Bojo The Mighty Condor Squad 5324	Posted - 2014.12.16 22:01:00 - [57] - Quote dzizur wrote: Farming? Yeah if anything I bet all those blueberries made hella bank off them HAVs Bojo For CPM
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 232	Posted - 2014.12.16 22:18:00 - [58] - Quote To the OP Dust 514 is not chess, you are not going to take that piece without resistance, it comes down to skill on both sides This was not a coordinated attack so may not have all been attacking the same target You don't know the weapons used on your side (since all swarms are 4 missiles) You mention 'constantly bombarding' rather than trying to alpha strike 1 target You suggested the tanks were pulvarising troops, which I'm assuming would include the AV, and therefore are not all attacking at once If you see me in game, ask me to call you in a triple rep maddy, with the amount of Alpha damage available its not a good fit, but you can test it out yourself
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5479	Posted - 2014.12.16 22:23:00 - [59] - Quote If you are complaining about tanks right now then you are simply doing it wrong. Only4-5KDRpubbiesCanRunADV24/7\|PCplyrsRunPRO&smashSTD/MLTplyrs24/7. ThisIsHowIt'sAlwaysBeen,ThereforeMustStayThisWay.
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1318	Posted - 2014.12.16 22:28:00 - [60] - Quote Clone D wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: Triple rep maddy is a bad fit, so you're bad AV players. Actually you're really bad, you couldn't kill a couple of armor tanks? With swarms? Bad. Now quit trying to turn DUST into an all infantry game, it's already close enough as is. You and I have squadded before. I can't attest to how well the other players performed, but my swarms were hitting at a nearly 100% rate. I was watching those tanks get bombarded by 6 AVers for the entire duration of 10 minutes and they did not fall. You must of had a bunch of terrible players. I don't see how it takes over one person to kill a vehicle. It takes my Ishukone Assault Forge gun 3 shots (6 seconds) to kill a tank dead especially an armor tank. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris



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