DUST Search - The Burst Rifle Conundrum (A theory as to why it sucks)

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Kay, so, here we go. Get ready for math.

Here's the issue: Burst AR's Rate of Fire isn't matching up with it's Burst Fire Delay. Essentially, it says 1000 RPM in the fitting screen but that's not how we calculate damage on a burst weapon, so both Protofits.com and CCP Rattati's Hotfix Delta Chart are, according to theory, incorrect. I'll explain why.

In CCP Rattati's Chart, the Allotek Burst Rifle sits just above 600 DPS. This is -far- away from it's actual performance in game, however, and the reason being is because when you take it's base Rate of Fire (1000 RPM) and divide it by 60 (seconds in a minute) you'll get 16.66... <--- Repeating decimal. Now, if you multiply that by it's base damage (36.4) you get the DPS readout that's displayed in both Protofits and Rattati's Chart: 606.66...

So, let's look at that mathematically.

1000 (rounds per minute) ++ 60 (seconds in a minute) = 16.66... (rounds per second.)
16.66 (rounds per second) * 36.40 (damage per round) = 606.66...(Damage Per Second)

Looks good, right? Except, it's not an automatic. That DPS value would be true if it were, but since it's not, we have to account for a brief fire delay between each burst. So, I tried it out. I emptied out magazine after magazine after magazine and used a stop-watch to see how long it took to empty out the entire clip (because I know you guys hate it being called a clip Lol

).

The result was an average of 2.65 bursts per second. Which essentially means that...

60 rounds ++ 4 rounds per burst = 15 bursts per magazine
15 bursts over an average of 5.66 seconds = 2.65 bursts per second
33.09 damage * 4 rounds = 145.6 damage per burst
145.6 damage per burst multiplied by average of 2.65 bursts per second = 385.84 damage per second.

Which is about 220.82 DPS off the mark and about 67.36 DPS -LESS- than the Duvolle Assault Rifle.

Oh, huh, interesting.

I'd actually started using the Burst AR again and had some success, but I have felt that the burst delay is making the DPS lower than it should be.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1388	Posted - 2014.12.13 17:11:00 - [31] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: I seriously doubt the damage profile has much to do with it because if that were the case the SCR would have similar issues. The SCR is just comparably better. The ScR and the ScP have the alpha damage to overcome their profiles. The LR can get to crazy DPS before it overheats to help melt armor. The AScR is the only "vanilla" weapon with the laser damage profile VellOcet is correct on this I think. There is a pretty noticeable preformance difference when facing armor tank suits with the ASCR that the SCR can overcome. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 112	Posted - 2014.12.13 17:18:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: now where are the Amarrians to come fix the ASCR ? I haven't used the ASCR in ages, but I remember when I did, the only thought I had was, "Man this ting sucks compared to the SCR. If I was using the SCR, that guy would be dead." It felt inaccurate as it had too much dispersion (or perhaps kick) that made it feel inaccurate compared to the AR, and the SCR to make it feel fun and effective. Especially since there is no sharpshooter skill, and the Scrambler Rifle Operation skill doesn't reduce kick like it does with the other rifles. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1158	Posted - 2014.12.13 17:20:00 - [33] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: I seriously doubt the damage profile has much to do with it because if that were the case the SCR would have similar issues. The SCR is just comparably better. The ScR and the ScP have the alpha damage to overcome their profiles. The LR can get to crazy DPS before it overheats to help melt armor. The AScR is the only "vanilla" weapon with the laser damage profile VellOcet is correct on this I think. There is a pretty noticeable preformance difference when facing armor tank suits with the ASCR that the SCR can overcome. Absolutely agreed. ScR is better able to overcome weakness vs armor than ASCR.
matsumoto yuichi san The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance 96	Posted - 2014.12.13 17:21:00 - [34] - Quote In terms of the ascr I don't use enough to say rattati, though best guess is it feels less accurate and it's damage is bad in current meta.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 112	Posted - 2014.12.13 17:26:00 - [35] - Quote John Psi wrote: Dear Aeon Amadi, Rattati and Community, let me to offer some thoughts about high ROF tactical rifles. First of all, a scientific fact is that the most rapid muscle movement, which can perform a human being - an eye blink. The most rapid blinking of the eyes, which can be achieved in 20 seconds - 120/130ms, followed by a muscle fatigue. Let's see, what can make fingers of average players: This simple test shows the number of clicks made in 20 seconds. I performed this test as much as possible by focusing on the number of clicks, and here is my result: 378 max manual ROF. Of course, doing a similar exercise in the game, the player is unable to accurately aim. Thus, the player uses a macro or a turbo controller will always have an advantage over honest players, because it has the ability to aim accurately, without being distracted by pressing the shot button. The first step to bringing tactical rifles in the normal state should not be fine-tuning DPS, Range and Ammo clip, but eliminating the possibility unfair play. ROF should be set no higher than the maximum possible MANUAL ROF, around 350. Volley damage should be increased to achieve the necessary reasonable DPS. Thank you for your attention, sorry for bad english. When you lower the ROF by too much (like the scrambler pistol of old) you can oversample the gun, and when you do that it feels extremely dissatisfying to use. When on my A game, I can get around 8 shots per second consistently, or 480RPM for the brief periods before I overheat the gun. This is while aiming accurately. There are others who claim higher input rates. In short, the weapon needs a high fire rate in order to make it feel fun to shoot (it sucks to pull the trigger and have nothing come out), and it's speeds are attainable briefly, which makes it very powerful in skilled hands. I feel this is how tactical weapons should be. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11693	Posted - 2014.12.13 19:24:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: now where are the Amarrians to come fix the ASCR ? For the aSCR, I would recommend making it have the least dispersion and the most precision out of all the assault variants. It is suppose to be laser-based weapon. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1064	Posted - 2014.12.13 19:25:00 - [37] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: When you lower the ROF by too much (like the scrambler pistol of old) you can oversample the gun, and when you do that it feels extremely dissatisfying to use. When on my A game, I can get around 8 shots per second consistently, or 480RPM for the brief periods before I overheat the gun. This is while aiming accurately. There are others who claim higher input rates. In short, the weapon needs a high fire rate in order to make it feel fun to shoot (it sucks to pull the trigger and have nothing come out), and it's speeds are attainable briefly, which makes it very powerful in skilled hands. I feel this is how tactical weapons should be. I totally agree with you, but: Hi / Low input problem - a separate issue. In any case we need to get rid of the outrageous use of macros. The superiority of using macros on tactical rifles are much higher than the possible DPS variance under different Hi / Low input. Please support fair play!
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 261	Posted - 2014.12.13 21:57:00 - [38] - Quote there is not one weapon in dust that will come close to its stated rounds per minute stat, what you you gonna do about the rest of them. the one that suffers the most is the scrambler should we fix that also Jupiter's cock! It's a Mark VI... And we've got it by the ass!
emm kay G0DS AM0NG MEN 232	Posted - 2014.12.13 22:53:00 - [39] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Kay what's up? There is a reason you never see me in battle. it's because I see you first.
Kierkegaard Soren THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 589	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:29:00 - [40] - Quote I find the ascr to be one of the most reliable hip-fire weapons in the game; really low dispersion and it's pretty easy to land most of your shots on even fast movin targets. Ads is a pain with the muzzle flash and perceived kick, perhaps tone both down and then remove the sight perhaps? In terms of raw numbers however it's definitely the armour meta; it shreds shield suits and matsuri frames in fairly short order. That being said, I run it on an Amarr commando with maxed relevant skills and a damage mod, so I'm boosting it's base damage by a fair proportion. You might want to tweak its RoF upwards so that it can deliver damage faster and bring its heat build up into play (it's very difficult to overheat currently). I'd shy away from a damage boost Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.

Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1402	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:05:00 - [41] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: now where are the Amarrians to come fix the ASCR ? It's the kick/dispersion/muzzle flash in ADS that makes it tough to use at range. I think this was tweaked some before, and I've not used it a ton since then. It's still far from precise though (although I've read that it actually IS precise and the screen shake is all cosmetic). Let's look at it objectively: it's got the worst damage profile, heat mechanics, much worse alpha than the ScR (as it should be), is longer range, but it's difficult to be accurate at range. It's a lot like the aborted twin of the RR. In ADS, the RR has better range, the best damage profile for finishing an opponent, both have accuracy issues. I'm having a really hard time thinking of a situation I'd rather have a AScR than a RR (maybe for taking out a Caldari Assault in the open at 30m). The AScR is the only assault variant without an iron sight. Perhaps it make sense to have it be the precision choice for the fully automatic rifles. This may be a bad idea, but consider a small damage buff, a good precision buff, maybe a small ADS zoom buff, and then increase the heat buildup to make that more of a factor for the weapon. yas Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1402	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:06:00 - [42] - Quote After testing the ASCR i can confidentally say that ASCR is one of the best guns at killing MLT minmatar light frames Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Meeko Fent True Illuminate 2295	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:42:00 - [43] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Kay, so, here we go. Get ready for math. Here's the issue: Burst AR's Rate of Fire isn't matching up with it's Burst Fire Delay. Essentially, it says 1000 RPM in the fitting screen but that's not how we calculate damage on a burst weapon, so both Protofits.com and CCP Rattati's Hotfix Delta Chart are, according to theory, incorrect. I'll explain why. In CCP Rattati's Chart, the Allotek Burst Rifle sits just above 600 DPS. This is -far- away from it's actual performance in game, however, and the reason being is because when you take it's base Rate of Fire (1000 RPM) and divide it by 60 (seconds in a minute) you'll get 16.66... <--- Repeating decimal. Now, if you multiply that by it's base damage (36.4) you get the DPS readout that's displayed in both Protofits and Rattati's Chart: 606.66... So, let's look at that mathematically. 1000 (rounds per minute) ++ 60 (seconds in a minute) = 16.66... (rounds per second.) 16.66 (rounds per second) * 36.40 (damage per round) = 606.66...(Damage Per Second) Looks good, right? Except, it's not an automatic. That DPS value would be true if it were, but since it's not, we have to account for a brief fire delay between each burst. So, I tried it out. I emptied out magazine after magazine after magazine and used a stop-watch to see how long it took to empty out the entire clip (because I know you guys hate it being called a clip ). The result was an average of 2.65 bursts per second. Which essentially means that... 60 rounds ++ 4 rounds per burst = 15 bursts per magazine 15 bursts over an average of 5.66 seconds = 2.65 bursts per second 33.09 damage * 4 rounds = 145.6 damage per burst 145.6 damage per burst multiplied by average of 2.65 bursts per second = 385.84 damage per second. Which is about 220.82 DPS off the mark and about 67.36 DPS -LESS- than the Duvolle Assault Rifle. Oh, huh, interesting. I'd actually started using the Burst AR again and had some success, but I have felt that the burst delay is making the DPS lower than it should be. I ran the BuAR for a bit. Tried the TAR and liked it more. It's not good in CQC cause hipfire, and it's not good in range cause burst kicks it off target quick-like. My opinion on it. The ScR and TAR are better in both because you can deal more hurt quickly, and instead of having your damage spread in several shots which can miss, it deals them all up front. I am the bluedot. And I will rise again.
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 15	Posted - 2014.12.15 15:29:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: now where are the Amarrians to come fix the ASCR ? Fix the recoil on the ASCR and we have a weapon we can use. The damage is fine, the range will adjust itself once the recoil is tuned down. CEO / Art.of.Death We fight together now. We look forward to the future in Legion.
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD RUST415 95	Posted - 2014.12.15 15:44:00 - [45] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: now where are the Amarrians to come fix the ASCR ? It's the kick/dispersion/muzzle flash in ADS that makes it tough to use at range. I think this was tweaked some before, and I've not used it a ton since then. It's still far from precise though (although I've read that it actually IS precise and the screen shake is all cosmetic). Let's look at it objectively: it's got the worst damage profile, heat mechanics, much worse alpha than the ScR (as it should be), is longer range, but it's difficult to be accurate at range. It's a lot like the aborted twin of the RR. In ADS, the RR has better range, the best damage profile for finishing an opponent, both have accuracy issues. I'm having a really hard time thinking of a situation I'd rather have a AScR than a RR (maybe for taking out a Caldari Assault in the open at 30m). The AScR is the only assault variant without an iron sight. Perhaps it make sense to have it be the precision choice for the fully automatic rifles. This may be a bad idea, but consider a small damage buff, a good precision buff, maybe a small ADS zoom buff, and then increase the heat buildup to make that more of a factor for the weapon. This^^. If it were more accurate, I would use it more often. It's really the biggest flaw that limits the weapon. If you're worried that it would become a more powerful RR, give it an iron sight like most other assault weapon variants.
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 698	Posted - 2014.12.15 16:53:00 - [46] - Quote Ok, the issue with the burst anything in this game boils down to one MAJOR thing, latency/lag. In a perfect environment with the same skilled players (both in and out of game), you would be fine. But the problem (that was very well illustrated by the video that shows the slower rate of fire for burst in a laggy facility) causes the ROF to drop considerably. THIS is your issue. Fix the framerate and you fix the problem. If you fix the rifle for the bad framerate, then you unbalance the rifle for non-laggy areas and it becomes OP. Don't fall for that trap. "But we can't account for the OP skillness of players who can just rapidly tap the fire key so damned fast..." Then buy a cheap $15 rapid fire controller from Walmart like I did and set it to press the trigger 15 times a second and hold the damned trigger down. Use that as your baseline for the capability of both auto-matic and burst fire weapons!!!! Jesus this level of quality assurance is a freaking no-brainer and you guys at CCP seem to be dunces at QA testing techniques. As for your stupidly lame comment on trying to solicit this community for "fixes" to the ASCR, are you really that deaf to what's going on? The reason you aren't hearing for it is because it really isn't that underpowered. I agree that it's not getting kills (ie the final killing blow), but that is because when everyone shoots at the same target, the ASCR is gonna remove all the shields and start to somewhat effectively plink away the armor, but the HMG's and combat rifles with their "spray bullets everywhere" mentality are gonna receive the killing blow. Thus the ASCR seems to be underpowered but it's not. It's more of a "teamwork" weapon than people realize.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 700	Posted - 2014.12.15 17:26:00 - [47] - Quote The extra round per burst will help. But this makes it look like it could use a straight damage buff. While we're on problems with bursting, the CR is a bit UP atm and will only get more so with the balancing of armor/shields meta. Could we have a shorter burst interval for the CR?
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5414	Posted - 2014.12.15 17:29:00 - [48] - Quote It would be easier to calculate accurate DPS is all Burst weapons acted like the Burst HMG and did not allow you to fire any faster by pulling the trigger repeatedly. But maybe that is just my personal bias talking, as tendon problems prevent me from using semi automatic weapons. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
thehellisgoingon The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 64	Posted - 2014.12.15 18:12:00 - [49] - Quote Burst AR. The red-headed ugly stepsister of the CR
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1417	Posted - 2014.12.16 01:13:00 - [50] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: I seriously doubt the damage profile has much to do with it because if that were the case the SCR would have similar issues. The SCR is just comparably better. The ScR and the ScP have the alpha damage to overcome their profiles. The LR can get to crazy DPS before it overheats to help melt armor. The AScR is the only "vanilla" weapon with the laser damage profile Very good way to put it. Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 709	Posted - 2014.12.16 01:26:00 - [51] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: It would be easier to calculate accurate DPS is all Burst weapons acted like the Burst HMG and did not allow you to fire any faster by pulling the trigger repeatedly. But maybe that is just my personal bias talking, as tendon problems prevent me from using semi automatic weapons. I have an injury to my right hand that limits my trigger pulling ability (deals with tendons too). I have never been very good with Semi Auto weapons because of it. :) but the problem is also tied into my right thumb if you can believe it. Every time i pull the trigger my right thumb presses down or pulls the controls to the south east. I should have probably switched to KB/M years ago... but I've always just played with controllers. So... Logi works best for me most of the time. I just compensate by finding other roles to play, different weapons to use or tactics to employ that let me play on the same field as those will skills. - I could never snipe :) - Just glad to hear from another injured player that plays FPS anyway The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower Trust CROSS
Jathniel G I A N T 1323	Posted - 2014.12.16 01:54:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: the fix for the ascr is not to add new amarr weapons. Also, please base any comparisons to the other faction assault variants, not the scrambler rifle. I tried to propose a dps modification HERE. Here are some proposals again: I suggest the following damages: 34.10 HP - Militia Assault Scrambler Rifle 36.50 HP - CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle 38.25 HP - Carthum Assault Scrambler Rifle If those damages are too tiered then consider: 34.10 35.00 35.95 In the very LEAST these (Credit to Fizzer XCIV): MLT: 32.48 STD: 32.48 (doesn't exist) ADV: 34.10 PRO: 35.72 OR you can go with a significant range buff and recoil reduction to augment its nature of being an assault variant within the Tactical family. Or you can go real wild and give it like 50 per shot at 800 rpm, but make it overheat so fast, that only the Amarr Assault has any chance of using it reasonably. lol Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5087	Posted - 2014.12.16 02:41:00 - [53] - Quote I'd either lower the zoom, or increase the range to get rid of the confusion of aiming down sights. Also, decrease delay between bursts a bit. I don't know what's so hard.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 700	Posted - 2014.12.16 03:05:00 - [54] - Quote make the scope like SCR scope please
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1368	Posted - 2014.12.16 03:19:00 - [55] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: make the scope like SCR scope please I'm in for giving some gallente weapons a Gallentean reflex sight. Just not the Amarrian one. The sight on the Amarrian weapon is purposely shaped a little like the Amarrian Signs of Faith. But not the 6th one on the far right... that's the Blood Raider symbol. And the 4th one is a little controversial as well... Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5435	Posted - 2014.12.16 14:18:00 - [56] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: It would be easier to calculate accurate DPS is all Burst weapons acted like the Burst HMG and did not allow you to fire any faster by pulling the trigger repeatedly. But maybe that is just my personal bias talking, as tendon problems prevent me from using semi automatic weapons. I have an injury to my right hand that limits my trigger pulling ability (deals with tendons too). I have never been very good with Semi Auto weapons because of it. :) but the problem is also tied into my right thumb if you can believe it. Every time i pull the trigger my right thumb presses down or pulls the controls to the south east. I should have probably switched to KB/M years ago... but I've always just played with controllers. So... Logi works best for me most of the time. I just compensate by finding other roles to play, different weapons to use or tactics to employ that let me play on the same field as those will skills. - I could never snipe :) - Just glad to hear from another injured player that plays FPS anyway I wonder if this could be why I melee instead of firing 50% of the time when I try to use the Shotgun? I have the melee problem with other weapons to a lesser extent. If I could deactivate Melee it would significantly improve my gun game with certain weapons. I have found that the HMG seems to work best for me, even before it was fixed when everyone considered it UP. I still melee instead of firing sometimes, but not nearly as often as with other weapons. I did order some of these which gave me a better grip on the stick so that I did not have to press as hard when holding it with my thumb. This reduced the effect of my thumb spasms, thus reducing the frequency at which I missed shots due to unintentionally meleeing. It did not solve the problem, but it did help. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 705	Posted - 2014.12.16 14:59:00 - [57] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: It would be easier to calculate accurate DPS is all Burst weapons acted like the Burst HMG and did not allow you to fire any faster by pulling the trigger repeatedly. But maybe that is just my personal bias talking, as tendon problems prevent me from using semi automatic weapons. Hey you and me both buddy! Hence why I wish that CCP would freaking let us reconfigure the layout of the keyboard and mouse controls so that I don't have to keep screwing up my hand by trying to use a damned tiny ass plastic controller designed for some little 5 year old to use. But that's another rant I have. ;)
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 705	Posted - 2014.12.16 15:01:00 - [58] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: It would be easier to calculate accurate DPS is all Burst weapons acted like the Burst HMG and did not allow you to fire any faster by pulling the trigger repeatedly. But maybe that is just my personal bias talking, as tendon problems prevent me from using semi automatic weapons. I have an injury to my right hand that limits my trigger pulling ability (deals with tendons too). I have never been very good with Semi Auto weapons because of it. :) but the problem is also tied into my right thumb if you can believe it. Every time i pull the trigger my right thumb presses down or pulls the controls to the south east. I should have probably switched to KB/M years ago... but I've always just played with controllers. So... Logi works best for me most of the time. I just compensate by finding other roles to play, different weapons to use or tactics to employ that let me play on the same field as those will skills. - I could never snipe :) - Just glad to hear from another injured player that plays FPS anyway KBM is a little better, but not much. CCP was stukpid and the set configurations squeeze all the controls into one spot and make it difficult to use as well. I wish they would just let us reconfigure which button does what like any other game does.
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 706	Posted - 2014.12.16 15:19:00 - [59] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: It would be easier to calculate accurate DPS is all Burst weapons acted like the Burst HMG and did not allow you to fire any faster by pulling the trigger repeatedly. But maybe that is just my personal bias talking, as tendon problems prevent me from using semi automatic weapons. I have an injury to my right hand that limits my trigger pulling ability (deals with tendons too). I have never been very good with Semi Auto weapons because of it. :) but the problem is also tied into my right thumb if you can believe it. Every time i pull the trigger my right thumb presses down or pulls the controls to the south east. I should have probably switched to KB/M years ago... but I've always just played with controllers. So... Logi works best for me most of the time. I just compensate by finding other roles to play, different weapons to use or tactics to employ that let me play on the same field as those will skills. - I could never snipe :) - Just glad to hear from another injured player that plays FPS anyway I wonder if this could be why I melee instead of firing 50% of the time when I try to use the Shotgun? I have the melee problem with other weapons to a lesser extent. If I could deactivate Melee it would significantly improve my gun game with certain weapons. I have found that the HMG seems to work best for me, even before it was fixed when everyone considered it UP. I still melee instead of firing sometimes, but not nearly as often as with other weapons. I did order some of these which gave me a better grip on the stick so that I did not have to press as hard when holding it with my thumb. This reduced the effect of my thumb spasms, thus reducing the frequency at which I missed shots due to unintentionally meleeing. It did not solve the problem, but it did help. I found that if you get the Split Fish controller from FragFX you can "remap" the melee to be something else (like shaking the controller) then this issue goes away. https://world.splitfish.com/fragfx-game-controllers/fragfx-shark-ps3-classic-ps3-pc-mac.html Here's a good in depth review of it on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IWkOW1a8Ls I agree that it sucks for use in vehicles, however as pointed out in the video, you just have a standard PS3 controller sitting next to you and when you get into a vehicle grab the other controller and away you go, best of both worlds.... speaking of which, the PS3 recognizes the split fish as a "controller" and not KBM so you still get to take advantage of the aim assist if you want to. Oh and of course there is a rapid fire setting that you can adjust from slow/med/high rates.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5439	Posted - 2014.12.16 18:22:00 - [60] - Quote Nice... except I use a track ball rather than a mouse due to tendon issues.... Eventually maybe we will have Legion. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.



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Pokemon master and Tekken Lord

Give me da iskiez

Gk0 Scout yay :)

Pokemon master and Tekken Lord

Give me da iskiez

Gk0 Scout yay :)

Pokemon master and Tekken Lord

Give me da iskiez

Gk0 Scout yay :)