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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
639
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Posted - 2014.11.26 19:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNqtvTc1_UE&feature=youtu.be
^^ I'm not the best player but I wanted to show off some of the game play that is being REMOVED from the game with the addition of the proposed Equipment Bandwidth.
Some say this play style is a EXPLOIT and are fighting to remove it from the game. I'm not so sure I should have to join a squad to enjoy playing the game.
But you guys fight it out, not the first time horrible ideas where pushed into Dust 514.
Post up your comments here
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2482085#post2482085
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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ReGnYuM
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
3324
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 19:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNqtvTc1_UE&feature=youtu.be ^^ I'm not the best player but I wanted to show off some of the game play that is being REMOVED from the game with the addition of the proposed Equipment Bandwidth. Some say this play style is a EXPLOIT and are fighting to remove it from the game. I'm not so sure I should have to join a squad to enjoy playing the game. But you guys fight it out, not the first time horrible ideas where pushed into Dust 514. Post up your comments here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2482085#post2482085
I understand that Dust 514 has a strong logistical aspect, but this is FPS first and foremost. Equipment spam effects Frame rate and overall performance, and I find it unacceptable for play-style to jeopardize or demote the game play of others... especially when it effects core mechanics.
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
639
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 19:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Show me in this video where performance was jeopardized.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2235
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Posted - 2014.11.26 19:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
While I'm not so sure the proposed bandwidth idea is good (as I haven't actually read about it in detail) I know for sure that being able to play more than one role at the same time, in this case Logi + another, is an incredible stupid mechanic that absolutely needs fixing.
Without knowing the details on the bandwidth idea, I would probably like the idea of deployed equipment selfdestructing if the owner spawns in a suit without that specific item equipped more.
As for solo play being rather stupid, I still, as I always have, blame the rather terrible gamemodes and the pretty much non-existant squad/command structure.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Ku Shala
The Generals
1030
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Posted - 2014.11.26 19:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
im very mixed on the proposal. I hate the all out spam that can happen but what about when your the only logi on your team and other uncontrollable things like forge gunners needing ammo afar and needing elevated places to spawn that are not going to trap a heavy. I cant set a link and spawn without my equips exploding? I like the bandwidth idea but its should be a skill on the skill tree low cost multiplier on a per player basis no matter what suit you are wearing, tactical logiing is fair play in my mind.
-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)
Caldari Loyalist
*Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
19412
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 19:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
You threw down a handful of uplinks and then played heavy all match.
So?
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Glorious pink victory has been achieved.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5096
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 19:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
No sympathy for you. Sorry. If you want to support your team with deployable equipment run a logistics dropsuit. That's their niche. You don't get the WP flood of drop uplinks, nanohives, AND slaying in a sentinel or scout dropsuit. You must choose one now; it's a smart decision on CCP's part that just happens to improve framerate too.
My advice to you, playa...
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hfderrtgvcd
1273
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 19:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Just wanted to let you know that you can only have two active uplinks unless you're using the gauged. Dropping 3 flux is pointless
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
640
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 19:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:You threw down a handful of uplinks and then played heavy all match.
So?
From watching some of the proposed ideas, people are pushing to "ONLY" letting you use equipment if your in a equipment suit the entire game.
IE If you want to put down proxy mines you need to say in your bandwidth enabled suit until they are triggered.
They have this crazy idea that if people are FORCED to have to stay in a logi suit the entire match it will help field more logistic suits on the battle field. On top of paying the price for a suit loss they are forced to play in sub par fit for the situation which I feel removes game play flexibility.
(Also sometimes I will drop more then 2 uplinks if my spot is closer or if I don't remember which position the equipment is in while deploying.. better safe then sorry)
>> @Ripley Riley
Still people forget that you are losing time by always switching suits and you have to pay for the suits as this play style losses lots of uplink suits which cost lots of ISK. But hey that's the price I pay for keeping us out of the redline.
Just because you think everyone should play only one class after spawning into a battle is just crazy.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
19414
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
It doesn't mean you're restricted to one class at all.
It just means that you can't only use your logi to chuck down deployables at a supply depot or at the start of the match and then spend the entire match in a heavy.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Glorious pink victory has been achieved.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5097
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Still people forget that you are losing time by always switching suits and you have to pay for the suits as this play style losses lots of uplink suits which cost lots of ISK. But hey that's the price I pay for keeping us out of the redline.
Just because you think everyone should play only one class after spawning into a battle is just crazy.  Still no sympathy for you. This mechanic should have been in Dust 514 since day 0; it prevents abuse of deployable equipment. The only thing that sucks about this change will be weaning people off of getting 1,000+ WP's per match from equipment they dropped before switching to an HMG sentinel.
Adapt or die, homie, adapt or die.
My advice to you, playa...
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4724
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Skimmed it. 15 minutes is a long time to watch.
Anyway, I get it, you want to be a one man army and do stuff for the blueberries. However, what's good for you is not always good for the game. I don't see why you should be able to drop a bunch of uplinks and then go run around with 1200HP and an HMG. I don't get to do that.
Second, and probably more important, the flaw with this argument (i.e., we would have been redlined because I'm the only competent player on my team doing all this) completely ignores the effect BW has on the other team.
You see all that EQ they spammed all around the objective and then surrounded by 5 sentinels? With bandwidth: GONE
BW gets rid of that for the other team, too. True story.
(As an aside, in ML you can't find a squad? I know you're also still in the old LOI channel (not that it's super active anymore) and still, you can't ever get a sqaud? That's hard to believe.)
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
2153
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:NextDark Knight wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNqtvTc1_UE&feature=youtu.be ^^ I'm not the best player but I wanted to show off some of the game play that is being REMOVED from the game with the addition of the proposed Equipment Bandwidth. Some say this play style is a EXPLOIT and are fighting to remove it from the game. I'm not so sure I should have to join a squad to enjoy playing the game. But you guys fight it out, not the first time horrible ideas where pushed into Dust 514. Post up your comments here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2482085#post2482085 I understand that Dust 514 has a strong logistical aspect, but this is FPS first and foremost. Equipment spam effects Frame rate and overall performance, and I find it unacceptable for a play-style to jeopardize or demote the game play of others... especially when it effects core mechanics.
firstly before CCP kills dust with bandwidth lets just see how the new orbitals effect the game and spam first.. EMP orbitals = <3
#[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2335
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
If equipment spam is sacrificed at the altar of a better Dust, I say let the killings begin! 
Sorry, as much as I value team gameplay (and your particular style, NDN, of filling in the gaps is very close to my own), I cannot get past the underlying meta problems that equipment spam has caused this game.
So, I, for one, support the bandwidth proposal, although like all changes we need to keep a close eye on its effect for further tweaking.
The good news here, I think, is that CCP (and Rattati, in particular) seems to have a good feel for what needs to be done to keep the game in balance and performing well, even if I've not always supported all of the changes personally (and I hope the same can be said for you after this one is in the rear view mirror).
So I say voice your opinion (as you have done) but take a wait and see approach to this one -- my sense is once we have it in the rear view mirror (and we all have had time to adapt) this one will end up being another step in the right direction.
Nice RE there near the end, BTW. ;) |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
2769
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
You can use framing on both sides to make the other side look worse.
Your argument:
You are FORCED to stay as a specific suit if you want to make the most out of your equipment. I, as a solo player, will not be able to help my team out as much by using Uplinks because I will be FORCED to stay in that role.
The dev's argument:
Being able to go into a Logistics suit for 5 seconds, throw down all the equipment, and go back to your primary role lets you do two roles at once. This means that true dedicated Logistics players and new players are simply unable to compete in this field. How is it fair that you are capable of doing both your roles at the same time (Heavy and Logistics) while the dedicated Logi or new player can only do a single role? You just want to keep your advantage from a broken system!
I am somewhere in the middle on this. It is kind of ridiculous that someone could spawn as a Logistics, throw down a bunch of hives, swap to a different Logistics, swap to Spawn Uplinks, than swap to a Scout/Heavy suit. In something like the Gallente Research Facility, with the Supply Depot being there you might as well have Logistics with an infinite amount of Equipment slots. They can throw down all their stuff and swap to the more active equipment like Needle, Scanner, and Repair Tool. As a Tanker, I cannot call in my tank to roam around the map and shoot people while I play in my Scout suit; this change makes it to where Logistics is on the same playing field.
Watching the video actually make me see why the change is happening. The weakness of the Logistics (lower damage and tank) and the weakness of a Sentinel (lack of mobility and support) are nearly completely removed by the current system if you drop Equipment and switch over. Maybe you should have to stay in that role if you want to continue, you know, doing that role.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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postapo wastelander
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
727
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Honestly if you kill my logi i will left for sure.
I played most of games like support and i dont want change it :-¦
"In the rust we trust"
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2336
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Do you rely on switching suits and spamming equipment?
If so, your role will change -- you will need to be much more thoughtful in how you deploy equipment.
So you guys who have been running suits at the beginning of the matches throwing a dozen or more uplinks, switching suits, and collecting +25 for the rest of the match should probably rethink that a bit.
Be prepared.
Adapt. |
NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
640
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
@leadfoot
My biggest grip is completely nerfing solo play at the cost of lowering some equipment spawn situations.
You loss more from the game then you are gaining.. this pushes people to be required to squad instead of having thr option of playing solo.
Adapting now is play a or b... just play better in a or b?
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4724
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:If solo equipment spam is sacrificed at the altar of a better Dust, I say let the killings begin.
Sorry, as much as I value team gameplay (and your particular style, NDN, of filling in the gaps is very close to my own), I cannot get past the underlying meta problems that equipment spam has caused this game.
So, I, for one, support the bandwidth proposal, although like all changes we need to keep a close eye on its effect for further tweaking.
The good news here, I think, is that CCP (and Rattati, in particular) seems to have a good feel for what needs to be done to keep the game in balance and performing well, even if I've not always supported all of the changes personally (and I hope the same can be said for you after this one is in the rear view mirror).
So I say voice your opinion (as you have done) but take a wait and see approach to this one -- my sense is once we have it in the rear view mirror (and we all have had time to adapt) this one will end up being another step in the right direction.
Nice RE there near the end, BTW. ;)
Exactly. If you don't like certain aspects of the proposal (the most frequent complint I see is proxies/RE's) then why not say, "well, how about we make RE's 2 BW and proxies 1?" instead of just throwing the whole thing out.
Or, come up with a better proposal, because, let's face it, the status quo is not that great. Make BW a squad composite? Might be interesting to look into... not team-based tho, way too easy to awox there. Make EQ deactivate instead of pop? Tweak the numbers? Rattati is clearly open to iterative changes, so it's not like we are locked into anything.
There's a whole lot of wiggle room between "Bandwidth gets directly implemented as first proposed, no changes." and
"BW kills the game, here's the torches and pitchforks to prove it." Try to find a place in the middle there you like.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2336
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:@leadfoot
My biggest grip is completely nerfing solo play at the cost of lowering some equipment spawn situations.
You loss more from the game then you are gaining.. this pushes people to be required to squad instead of having thr option of playing solo.
Adapting now is play a or b... just play better in a or b?
I don't disagree with you on the potential for nerfing solog play, but let's be honest....
If the teams have half a brain: EVERY SINGLE PC, DOM, AND SKIRMISH TURNS INTO EQUIPMENT SPAM.
Bottom line: It is a mechanic that needs to go, and I think you are overestimating the meta improvements this change will have overall while focusing too much on a perceived shortcoming (i.e. "loss of solo gameplay") -- before you've ever played the game with the proposed changes.
Take a deep breath, let's go kill some bitches, and let's see how it turns out. Send me an invite. |
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
640
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Best two proposals is
band with is based on squad
Or
Equipment cant be stacked near other equipment.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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postapo wastelander
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
727
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 20:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:@leadfoot
My biggest grip is completely nerfing solo play at the cost of lowering some equipment spawn situations.
You loss more from the game then you are gaining.. this pushes people to be required to squad instead of having thr option of playing solo.
Adapting now is play a or b... just play better in a or b?
Whats mean you basicaly nerf guy who will have already disadvantage, i dont like that.
Even a soloing bluberry can change wave in the battle.
Even be a inspiration for newbie grups in game.
And you want to make him fight more sour?!
Not nice, honeslty not nice at all :-¦
"In the rust we trust"
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RayRay James
Vengeance Unbound
RISE of LEGION
765
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 21:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
As a player who usually runs a logi, I'm torn between the proposed changes because I'm unsure of some issues.
If I get in my droplink suit and flood the map, then switch to my normal suit thats a variation of equipment, am I going to lose all the droplinks? I understand if I start throwing down hives and exceed my bandwidth, things will start popping, but what about just based on the fit?
Again, I'd prefer CCP do one thing at a time here. Figure out either the new orbitals or bandwidth (personally, I'd go orbitals first) and see what that does. Or maybe a flux variant with a massive AoE for equipment that has no effect on shields, something along the lines of 50-100 M radius that's not stopped by walls, floors or celinings. That way, you can clear some underground stronghold before you go in.
Maybe I'm just skittish around the word "bandwidth" after it was introduced for drones in EVE, but that's the solution I'd like least introduced into Dust.
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4730
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 21:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:As a player who usually runs a logi, I'm torn between the proposed changes because I'm unsure of some issues.
If I get in my droplink suit and flood the map, then switch to my normal suit thats a variation of equipment, am I going to lose all the droplinks? I understand if I start throwing down hives and exceed my bandwidth, things will start popping, but what about just based on the fit?
Again, I'd prefer CCP do one thing at a time here. Figure out either the new orbitals or bandwidth (personally, I'd go orbitals first) and see what that does. Or maybe a flux variant with a massive AoE for equipment that has no effect on shields, something along the lines of 50-100 M radius that's not stopped by walls, floors or celinings. That way, you can clear some underground stronghold before you go in.
Maybe I'm just skittish around the word "bandwidth" after it was introduced for drones in EVE, but that's the solution I'd like least introduced into Dust.
You are supposed to only lose the links if you have exceeded your BW. Has nothing to do with what's actually equiupped on the current suit, just what it's BW is. So, for example, you could use an uplink suit, drop 4 uplinks or whatever, and then switch to a more medic-type suit with rep/needle/whatever, the links stay.
(However, I will be exactly 0% surprised if everything pops on suit switching for the first day or so of this being patched in.)
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
10319
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 21:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Maybe I'm just skittish around the word "bandwidth" after it was introduced for drones in EVE, but that's the solution I'd like least introduced into Dust.
So far the bandwidth hasn't given drone users in Eve Online any problems. Can you imagine a fleet of 1,000 drone boats unleashing a swarm of drones if the bandwidth wasn't there or if the drone number limit wasn't imposed?
The only reason I'm ok with the proposed change for Dust is because I hate it when players create equipment spam which can cause serious frame rate issues in a given match especially in places like the Gallente Research basement, the Gallente Communications room by the supply depot, etc.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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RayRay James
Vengeance Unbound
RISE of LEGION
765
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 21:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:RayRay James wrote:Maybe I'm just skittish around the word "bandwidth" after it was introduced for drones in EVE, but that's the solution I'd like least introduced into Dust.
So far the bandwidth hasn't given drone users in Eve Online any problems. Can you imagine a fleet of 1,000 drone boats unleashing a swarm of drones if the bandwidth wasn't there or if the drone number limit wasn't imposed? The only reason I'm ok with the proposed change for Dust is because I hate it when players create equipment spam which can cause serious frame rate issues in a given match especially in places like the Gallente Research basement, the Gallente Communications room by the supply depot, etc.
Yes, in fact I can imagine that, because I have an EVE char from '05 that I played through, consistently, until '12.
I flew Myrmydons with 5x Ogre IIs, 5x Med Neut Blaster IIs, and 2x Med NOS. They screwed my drones and NOS in one patch.
Anyways, I'm ok with them making changes to equipment spam to decrease the problems caused by it. I think I'd rather see a "No X equipment within Y meters of each other" approach vs the bandwidth proposal.
edit / addition: I say this, only because I don't like limits being put on playstyle. I understand that no one should be able to fulfill 2 roles at the same time, and as a dedicated Logi of 2 years I'd love my role to be more valuable. I just don't want Logi's to get screwed because heavies like to equipment spam their static points of defense. |
Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
2005
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Posted - 2014.11.26 21:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alright first off you really aren't the beat player, throwing remotes from the pipes in a ck.o? Really?
Anyway I really like the bandwidth idea, it gives logis the role they were intended for, the master of equipment, logistics. Instead of a suit you spawn in with, dump all the equipment and switch to your slayer class. Logis will become really important to have and I'm sure there will be a few in a pub game, squad or not. Not to mention the frames we will save off equipment spam.
Yes this change will make it harder for solo players who want to spam uplinks/hives. However it will give logistics a proper role and a reason to stay on the field and be tactical with equipment. Smart placement and management of equipment will be the mark of a good logistics player. Its a good thing.
Master Skyshark rider
Kaalaka dakka tamer
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound
RISE of LEGION
2623
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Posted - 2014.11.26 21:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
I really don't understand the complaints. If you want to run equipment run logi, if you want to slay, swap suits to either a slayer logi fit, or to a suit with less BW and sacrifice some of that equipment. If equipment becomes more important to you in the match, switch back to your logi and lay down some more. Not that big of a deal.
Best PvE idea ever!
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postapo wastelander
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
737
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 22:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Oki im lost now, whats is exactly issue.
He want be Logi and heavy together.
Or he want to make some limitations or what :p
"In the rust we trust"
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Erasmus Konstantin
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
47
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Posted - 2014.11.26 23:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
bandwidth is coming regardless |
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15089
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 23:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
IMO You shouldn't have access to logistical tools if you are not willing to keep your logistics players on the field.
If anything I see this as a chance to affirm the role. Using your equipment sparingly and with less intent to simply ring an objective with Nanohives and Uplinks before completely changing role to something else.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
16
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Posted - 2014.11.26 23:41:00 -
[32] - Quote
Equipment spam is a necessary evil and it isn't as common as other exploits. Move the supply depot at the gallente research facilty and BAM, 90% of all cases of equipment spam are gone. The gallente lag facility is the only place i consistently see people do this.
Meanwhile I see frisbee REs all the time.
cloaked shotgun scouts literally every match.
Suit switching at supply depots frequently.
and Spawn camping.
All of these could be fixed. We even had a client side update in which none of these things where fixed, in fact the things that where supposed to be fixed weren't fixed!
Anyway, particularly with uplinks quantity is far superior to quality. Here is why:
1. scouts infest the map: there are no clear battle lines because scouts can be invisible on the radar of most suits permanently and relatively unnoticeable due to cloaks (especially in the heat of battle with visible enemies) for extended periods of time. They sneak and destroy equipment that would otherwise survive. The most undetectable suits in the game are also the fastest, equipment is easy to see and easy to scan. All it takes is a single melee hit to destroy it.
2. Logi suits suck to the point they cannot defend their own equipment. If by some miracle a logi wins a fight in which they cannot run away and likely had to reload their gun all that their opponent needs to do is throw a grenade or RE and the equipment is indefensible. So really an enemy hardly needs to engage a logi at all if their goal is only to destroy equipment.
3. Large quantities of uplinks are the only way for a logi prevent a speedy redline if your team isn't as capable competitively. You like the sort of matches where neither team can gain any ground on the other and everyone fights really hard? Thank equipment spam for that. Keeping player's ammo full and allowing a team to respawn in time that all the links aren't destroyed.
Really if one wants to reduce the necessity of uplink spam, reduce spawn time.
also equipment spam doesn't cause lag, so can someone answer? What is the reason to implement this? Just cuz? The maps too blue for people? Do scouts need another edge over logistics suits? Did someone put an uplink by Rattati's uplink while he was shotgun scouting? What is it?
Dust 5/14
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Hyuan BubblePOP
Uber Wanabes
14
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Posted - 2014.11.27 00:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
while we re at it disable the sounds that emits from the nanohives and uplinks or turn it down please ...........its way too dam LOUD! |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4734
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 00:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
Z3dog wrote:
Really if one wants to reduce the necessity of uplink spam, reduce spawn time.
also equipment spam doesn't cause lag, so can someone answer? What is the reason to implement this? Just cuz? The maps too blue for people? Do scouts need another edge over logistics suits? Did someone put an uplink by Rattati's uplink while he was shotgun scouting? What is it?
To get rid of the "tourists" who only use logi suits to crap out equipment as they run to the supply depot to switch to their cloaked shotty scout suit so they can rack up some cheap +25's exploiting EQ and cloaks at the same time.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Thokk Nightshade
Montana Militia
705
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 01:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
I will admit I do something similar to what the OP does. I start EVERY match in my logi suit. The big difference is I run 1 set of Nanohives, 1 set of uplinks, and a set of RE's. I will storm out and try to place my uplinks in a tactical place. Then i will find the firefight and drop my nanohives to resupply/triage. After that, I engage and use the RE's either to help hold people off or I will troll and place them on my Uplinks so when a shotgun scout or NK scout runs up and hits it, they die and I get an LOL +50 on my screen. After I die, I come in as either a Sentinel or Commando depending on the battlefield or situation. I only have 2 uplinks placed and 1 or 2 nanohives depending on the type I'm running.
There are several matches where, as it gets closer to the end (especially a 50 man Ambush), my 2 uplinks are the only ones still alive and kicking. If we make it so I have to stay in that suit or they are destroyed, I'm getting shafted. Why should I be forced to use a low HP, slow as hell suit for the ENTIRE match to keep them active? I'm forced to sit in what is, firefight wise, the worst suit in the game because of 3 or 4 pieces of equipment I dropped?
SOOO, I'm all for the bandwidth. Set it so there is a cap of 5 or 6 pieces of equipment total on the map per player with a limit of 3 of each particular type (3 uplinks total, 3 nanohives total). If we want, set squad limits so a squad of Nyain San can't place 30 freaking uplinks and nanohives all over the entire map. This is all we need to cut down on the spam.
RE's are a seperate issue because I have seen enough people run up to tanks and place 4/5/6 RE's on it and run off to detonate. This doesn't answer the RE Frisbee dilemma, but I think that is a conversation for another thread.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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Cody Sietz
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
4148
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Posted - 2014.11.27 01:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Sorry I don't feel bad. There are times I scan and the frame rate drops to zero because the entire map lit up.
Not to mention how impossible it is to see what's happening on the minimap because of all the damn spam.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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CharacterNameWasTaken
302
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Posted - 2014.11.27 01:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
I understand the bandwidth thing because ive been on both sides and it always causes lag when you are close combine that with when your fighting a corp halfway accross the globe and already has a bad connection with you and ive seen framerate drop to 5- per sec. On the other hand it will ruin proxies as they will have it too and only 3 of each can be places (or something like that) and really the only way dor proxies to take out a full health tank is by being spammed so were nerfing one thing that will barely be breathing after why not just put our knee on the proxies throat ans suffocate it by removing it from the game. But as i said i hate logi link diarreah and it should be nerfed into the ground like it is.
"Stop it the bouncing is making me uncomfortable" - Senji/Crow
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CharacterNameWasTaken
302
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Posted - 2014.11.27 01:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hyuan BubblePOP wrote:while we re at it disable the sounds that emits from the nanohives and uplinks or turn it down please ...........its way too dam LOUD!
it also contributes to fps lag... somehow.
"Stop it the bouncing is making me uncomfortable" - Senji/Crow
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
16
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Posted - 2014.11.27 01:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Z3dog wrote:
also equipment spam doesn't cause lag, so can someone answer? What is the reason to implement this? Just cuz? The maps too blue for people? Do scouts need another edge over logistics suits? Did someone put an uplink by Rattati's uplink while he was shotgun scouting? What is it?
To get rid of the "tourists" who only use logi suits to crap out equipment as they run to the supply depot to switch to their cloaked shotty scout suit so they can rack up some cheap +25's exploiting EQ and cloaks at the same time.
I don't see a problem with this. Their links won't survive the whole game if they do this and they'll have to switch back anyway to put more down.
Dust 5/14
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
4803
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Posted - 2014.11.27 02:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:While I'm not so sure the proposed bandwidth idea is good (as I haven't actually read about it in detail) I know for sure that being able to play more than one role at the same time, in this case Logi + another, is an incredible stupid mechanic that absolutely needs fixing.
Without knowing the details on the bandwidth idea, I would probably like the idea of deployed equipment selfdestructing if the owner spawns in a suit without that specific item equipped more.
As for solo play being rather stupid, I still, as I always have, blame the rather terrible gamemodes and the pretty much non-existant squad/command structure.
What about if the user dies? Should all equipment blow up once he spawns in a different suit, or something? If so, you can still spam or by creating different fits with different equipment to spam. |
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
452
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Posted - 2014.11.27 02:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
Sorry OP but its going to be as sad day you players like you and me.
All of the people in favor of this change are have the mentatility of your typical blueberry. As the guys who never droplinks, or bring what they can and switch roles as deemed necessary to the whole team. Nope, they just run around in circles and wonder why i'm getting so many war points for bringing the only uplinks in a dom.
''It not fair to to many thing at once'' just cries out ''I can't do it why should you''
How dare you change suits? How dare you spec into different roles? How dare you get warpoints? How dare play as free as you want?
The kind of people for which spam and gungame are bywords. Call in one tank ''TANK SPAMMER!'', drop multiple proto equipment ''SPAMMER!'' Never got hatemail for resuplying guys, and i never got hate mail for providing uplinks no matter what suit i was in.
You would think blueberries might appreciate the uplinks they spawn in on but no, they actually advocate having their own uplinks dead the second anybody changes suits.
I will have my revenge on these idiots. Just kill any and every CRU you see. Supply depots as well. Then sit back and watch two team with no place to spawn in on run in from the redline. Or watch one side get camped because that one uplink put down might be the only one left considering how few people bring them in.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2350
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Posted - 2014.11.27 03:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:NextDark Knight wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNqtvTc1_UE&feature=youtu.be ^^ I'm not the best player but I wanted to show off some of the game play that is being REMOVED from the game with the addition of the proposed Equipment Bandwidth. Some say this play style is a EXPLOIT and are fighting to remove it from the game. I'm not so sure I should have to join a squad to enjoy playing the game. But you guys fight it out, not the first time horrible ideas where pushed into Dust 514. Post up your comments here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2482085#post2482085 I understand that Dust 514 has a strong logistical aspect, but this is FPS first and foremost. Equipment spam effects Frame rate and overall performance, and I find it unacceptable for a play-style to jeopardize or demote the game play of others... especially when it effects core mechanics. firstly before CCP kills dust with bandwidth lets just see how the new orbitals effect the game and spam first.. EMP orbitals = <3
Eminently reasonable - iterative changes to core game mechanics. So many changes in the pipeline that things are absolutely guaranteed to go screwy if we try and push them through too close together and in the wrong order.
Bandwidth is attractive to many, myself included, but only because we've lived with match crippling spam for too long.
And the peeps who are using this anti-spam topic as an opportunity to change the essential character of DUST by insisting on a single role per match with zero crossover(eg. the logi-heavy example itt) are doing the game a disservice imo.
DUST will gain nothing by restricting roles, it will lose tremendously by giving up role flexibility, its identity watered down and morphing just a bit closer to the vast horde of other forgettable fps products. We can eliminate spam and maintain role flexibility, the two are not mutually exclusive.
The goal here is to limit equipment spam out of technical necessity, end of story. If peeps have an agenda where they want to radically change DUST to be more role-restricted and closer to their personal tastes, that's fine, but please have the balls and good grace to propose it as a separate fundamental game-design topic in a separate thread.
PSN: RationalSpark
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15104
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Posted - 2014.11.27 03:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Sorry OP but its going to be as sad day you players like you and me.
All of the people in favor of this change are have the mentatility of your typical blueberry. As the guys who never droplinks, or bring what they can and switch roles as deemed necessary to the whole team. Nope, they just run around in circles and wonder why i'm getting so many war points for bringing the only uplinks in a dom.
When my squad needs a hacker I leave my HAV and go it on foot.
When my Squad needs a tank it does not matter what unit I was before I am now a tank.
When a new role is needed your former role should cease to have impact on the battlefield.
Thus if you want logistical options on the battlefield then you must remain a logi to provide your team with access to them.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2350
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 03:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Hyuan BubblePOP wrote:while we re at it disable the sounds that emits from the nanohives and uplinks or turn it down please ...........its way too dam LOUD!
iirc, the best discussions we had about PC and framerate and equipment spam with CCP ended somewhere around the point that the audio from the equipment was the primary culprit for the bad framerate.
Does anybody know what happened after that?
PSN: RationalSpark
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
452
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Posted - 2014.11.27 03:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
When a new role is needed your former role should cease to have impact on the battlefield.
This line of reasoning is B.S. People don't comprehend because nearly every role in dust is locked within the suit. As in HMG is for heavies, scouts and their cloaks etc. Nothing can be retroactively destroyed by changing these kinds of suits.
Equipment isn't solely for logis, assaults and commandos have thier compacts hives, scouts carry links and remotes. Logis are however more likely to proto out thier equipment so they can drop more/better hives and ammo. And if the sitaution call for it I like the option of changing out suits without sacrificing any equipment that i took off of my suit where it wont die with my clone and placed on the ground so that I can use it when I need to.
Let me address your tank analogy:
Say you're a good squadmate, you bring out links. Situation calls for a Tank.
Should you lose all of your equipment because tanks have no bandwidth?
Or you jump out of your Tank to hack a point. You are now a Hacker, should your Tank be destroyed because you changed roles?
B.S.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5127
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Posted - 2014.11.27 03:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
Being in a tank doesn't require a specific dropsuit. Nor does being a hacker (ironically, logi dropsuits receive a 10% bonus to hack speed). You aren't comparing apples to apples.
This isn't about roles. This is about players abusing deployable equipment to farm WPs while they slay. If you want to drop some uplinks then do so in your assault fitting; I do it in mine. They work fine and the bandwidth update won't effect you except you won't be able to drop a dozen of them now... which is good because you aren't in a logi dropsuit. Dropping dozens of uplinks is a logi-thing.
My advice to you, playa...
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15110
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Posted - 2014.11.27 03:50:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:
Let me address your tank analogy:
Say you're a good squadmate, you bring out links. Situation calls for a Tank.
Should you lose all of your equipment because tanks have no bandwidth?
Or you jump out of your Tank to hack a point. You are now a Hacker, should your Tank be destroyed because you changed roles?
B.S.
I don't believe that I should have my cake and eat it too.
I see no reason that I should be able to reap the benefits of multiple classes at the same time.
If I want people spawns Vehicle wise should I not equip a MCRU? Is that not the MCRU's function?
But back to the point have yet to hear an argument that logically convinces me that you should be able to use a logistics suit to lay down X number of equipment items and then switch out to another suit and spend the rest of the battle in that role.
Honestly I have little experience with Logistics roles beyond the Rep, Rez, Resupply archetype, but if I hear a well reasoned argument I am willing to revise my opinion.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15110
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 03:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Being in a tank doesn't require a specific dropsuit. Nor does being a hacker (ironically, logi dropsuits receive a 10% bonus to hack speed). You aren't comparing apples to apples.
This isn't about roles. This is about players abusing deployable equipment to farm WPs while they slay. If you want to drop some uplinks then do so in your assault fitting; I do it in mine. They work fine and the bandwidth update won't effect you except you won't be able to drop a dozen of them now... which is good because you aren't in a logi dropsuit. Dropping dozens of uplinks is a logi-thing.
I wish high tier vehicle use did require a suit......
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
16
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Posted - 2014.11.27 04:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lets see... we've nerfed the uplinks, rep tool, hives, scanners, and nanite injector. Hmmm better just **** over the logistics role itself right guys?
Dust 5/14
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4739
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Posted - 2014.11.27 05:08:00 -
[50] - Quote
Z3dog wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Z3dog wrote:
also equipment spam doesn't cause lag, so can someone answer? What is the reason to implement this? Just cuz? The maps too blue for people? Do scouts need another edge over logistics suits? Did someone put an uplink by Rattati's uplink while he was shotgun scouting? What is it?
To get rid of the "tourists" who only use logi suits to crap out equipment as they run to the supply depot to switch to their cloaked shotty scout suit so they can rack up some cheap +25's exploiting EQ and cloaks at the same time. I don't see a problem with this. Their links won't survive the whole game if they do this and they'll have to switch back anyway to put more down. Edit: Also isn't this kinda a slippery slope. When will there be penalties for logis who switch to assault to kill people then back?
Umm... now? With the BW thing?
Not sure I understand the question otherwise.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
16
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Posted - 2014.11.27 05:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Z3dog wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Z3dog wrote:
also equipment spam doesn't cause lag, so can someone answer? What is the reason to implement this? Just cuz? The maps too blue for people? Do scouts need another edge over logistics suits? Did someone put an uplink by Rattati's uplink while he was shotgun scouting? What is it?
To get rid of the "tourists" who only use logi suits to crap out equipment as they run to the supply depot to switch to their cloaked shotty scout suit so they can rack up some cheap +25's exploiting EQ and cloaks at the same time. I don't see a problem with this. Their links won't survive the whole game if they do this and they'll have to switch back anyway to put more down. Edit: Also isn't this kinda a slippery slope. When will there be penalties for logis who switch to assault to kill people then back? Umm... now? With the BW thing? Not sure I understand the question otherwise.
Sorry that edit wasn't clear at all.
Beginning of game. Spawn as an assault and head for objective in dom. Lay down uplink before reaching objective. Get to objective and kill 6 advancing enemies in assault dropsuit. Secure objective. Secure supply depot. People late to game spawn on your uplink. Switch to logi suit and lay equipment at objective. Strengthen position.
Wait 2 weeks. Go on forums. "ITS SUCH BS THAT ASSAULT PLAYERS CAN JUST GO TO AN OBJECTIVE AND KILL EVERYONE. ASSAULTS RULE THE BEGINNING OF MATCHES AND THEN THEY JUST SWITCH TO LOGI SUITS AND DIG IN! IF THEY SWITCH TO A LOGI SUIT THEY SHOULDN'T GET TO KEEP THOSE KILLS!"
Dust 5/14
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CharacterNameWasTaken
303
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Posted - 2014.11.27 06:05:00 -
[52] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Being in a tank doesn't require a specific dropsuit. Nor does being a hacker (ironically, logi dropsuits receive a 10% bonus to hack speed). You aren't comparing apples to apples.
This isn't about roles. This is about players abusing deployable equipment to farm WPs while they slay. If you want to drop some uplinks then do so in your assault fitting; I do it in mine. They work fine and the bandwidth update won't effect you except you won't be able to drop a dozen of them now... which is good because you aren't in a logi dropsuit. Dropping dozens of uplinks is a logi-thing. I wish high tier vehicle use did require a suit......
you mean the two things that will never be in dust aka the pilot suit and higher teir vehicles. Remember that there are only std hulls for each vehicle so what you just said will never happen. Dont suggest something about a thing you donr know about spec into tanks and try them youll see why tanks are bitches to av now because everyone cried for a nerf now a nerf is coming to logis and yall cry about it but you guys wont stop ccp tankers and othed vehicle users have tried before your getteng nerfed deal with it.
Edit: sorry true didnt know it was you but i bet youll agree.
"Stop it the bouncing is making me uncomfortable" - Senji/Crow
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CharacterNameWasTaken
303
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Posted - 2014.11.27 06:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
Z3dog wrote:Lets see... we've nerfed the uplinks, rep tool, hives, scanners, and nanite injector. Hmmm better just **** over the logistics role itself right guys?
firsr nanite injectors werent nerged they were buffed. everything else was nerged to its respective logi suit as should be because each assault gets a bonus to its racial weapon same as commandos. Anyway your stull getting nerfed and no amout of complaining will stop it better than you have tried before and failed so dont expect it to be any different for your uplink diarreah having fags.
"Stop it the bouncing is making me uncomfortable" - Senji/Crow
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15122
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 06:48:00 -
[54] - Quote
CharacterNameWasTaken wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Being in a tank doesn't require a specific dropsuit. Nor does being a hacker (ironically, logi dropsuits receive a 10% bonus to hack speed). You aren't comparing apples to apples.
This isn't about roles. This is about players abusing deployable equipment to farm WPs while they slay. If you want to drop some uplinks then do so in your assault fitting; I do it in mine. They work fine and the bandwidth update won't effect you except you won't be able to drop a dozen of them now... which is good because you aren't in a logi dropsuit. Dropping dozens of uplinks is a logi-thing. I wish high tier vehicle use did require a suit...... you mean the two things that will never be in dust aka the pilot suit and higher teir vehicles. Remember that there are only std hulls for each vehicle so what you just said will never happen. Dont suggest something about a thing you donr know about spec into tanks and try them youll see why tanks are bitches to av now because everyone cried for a nerf now a nerf is coming to logis and yall cry about it but you guys wont stop ccp tankers and othed vehicle users have tried before your getteng nerfed deal with it. Edit: sorry true didnt know it was you but i bet youll agree.
I do nothing else but tank in this game mate................
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2236
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Posted - 2014.11.27 07:00:00 -
[55] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:While I'm not so sure the proposed bandwidth idea is good (as I haven't actually read about it in detail) I know for sure that being able to play more than one role at the same time, in this case Logi + another, is an incredible stupid mechanic that absolutely needs fixing.
Without knowing the details on the bandwidth idea, I would probably like the idea of deployed equipment selfdestructing if the owner spawns in a suit without that specific item equipped more.
As for solo play being rather stupid, I still, as I always have, blame the rather terrible gamemodes and the pretty much non-existant squad/command structure. What about if the user dies? Should all equipment blow up once he spawns in a different suit, or something? If so, you can still spam or by creating different fits with different equipment to spam.
I'm not really sure what you mean.
I'm saying that if the owner of deployed equipment spawns (or switches suits at supply depots) in a suit without the same specific equipment, it would selfdestruct. By specific I mean the exact same type of equipment.
For example if you place a, b and c type uplinks, then die and spawn back in with x, y and z type uplinks, then the a, b and c ones selfdestruct.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
17
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Posted - 2014.11.27 17:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
CharacterNameWasTaken wrote:Z3dog wrote:Lets see... we've nerfed the uplinks, rep tool, hives, scanners, and nanite injector. Hmmm better just **** over the logistics role itself right guys? firsr nanite injectors werent nerged they were buffed. everything else was nerged to its respective logi suit as should be because each assault gets a bonus to its racial weapon same as commandos. Anyway your stull getting nerfed and no amout of complaining will stop it better than you have tried before and failed so dont expect it to be any different for your uplink diarreah having fags.
lol wut
Dust 5/14
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LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
295
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Posted - 2014.11.27 17:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:While I'm not so sure the proposed bandwidth idea is good (as I haven't actually read about it in detail) I know for sure that being able to play more than one role at the same time, in this case Logi + another, is an incredible stupid mechanic that absolutely needs fixing.
Without knowing the details on the bandwidth idea, I would probably like the idea of deployed equipment selfdestructing if the owner spawns in a suit without that specific item equipped more.
As for solo play being rather stupid, I still, as I always have, blame the rather terrible gamemodes and the pretty much non-existant squad/command structure.
What you dont understand though, is that its just the logi role that is targeted here. What about slayers who switch fits to have a different weapon/armor setup? What about people that switch to AV to deal with a tank and then switch back? Forge gunners? HMGers? Snipers?
Why is it ok for a dedicated slayer whos obsessed with "FPS" to be able to switch to a double swarm commando to shoot down an ADS, and then put his GK.0 scout fit on after? its that not role switching as well?
When someone shows up at a supply depot and drops 50 nanohives, thats spam. What the vast majority of logis do is not spam. its our job to deploy equipment strategically. its our role.
if you want to play just FPS style, there are hundreds of FPS games out there that contain about as much depth as a bottle cap. Youll be able to line up the center of your screen on a target and press a button for many hours. Here though, its all the roles around that give this game character. COD is just strait up point and click. Dust, is supposed to be the sum of its parts. Dont ruin the game just because you dont want to put up 50$ to buy the latest run and gun title.
Anyway, i made a detailed post awhile ago in the thread in question. I got a like from CCP, so atleast it goes to show that they are listening to all sides of it and will carefully weight their decision.
original post here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2470501#post2470501 |
LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
295
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 18:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
I don't believe that I should have my cake and eat it too.
I see no reason that I should be able to reap the benefits of multiple classes at the same time.
If I want people spawns Vehicle wise should I not equip a MCRU? Is that not the MCRU's function?
But back to the point have yet to hear an argument that logically convinces me that you should be able to use a logistics suit to lay down X number of equipment items and then switch out to another suit and spend the rest of the battle in that role.
Honestly I have little experience with Logistics roles beyond the Rep, Rez, Resupply archetype, but if I hear a well reasoned argument I am willing to revise my opinion.
@True Adamance:
The proposed solution is more of a punishment than a fix. It caters to the PC obsessed CPM members who want to curtail every roles but assaulting.
if you tell me that I have to stay in logi suits the whole match or my equipment vanishes, i would accept that. That means i cant forgegun, I cant HMG, no assaults, scouts, or commandos. Only my weak logi suits. I would be ok with that. This is not what is being proposed.
its my job to deploy equipment. Not spam, deploy. Look....i start the match, off the bat I got to get my dropship and get my uplinks out there. Since I always play solo, I use guerrilla tactics. i always place a remote mine on the uplink. And my uplinks are placed in solid, hard to reach, strategic places. So just in the opening minutes of the game Ive already deployed 7 pieces of equipment. (4 uplinks, 3 mines), all from 1 suit.
Then what? Mines. Proxy mines. i switch to a proxy mine suit and now I lay out anti vehicle traps to create interdiction zones. If I have time, I create anti personnel traps too. Providing that goes well and i dont get killed or bogged down in the process, its back to vehicle time to deliver supplies to people who have spawned in my earlier uplinks. Once they are resupplied and im calling back my vehicle, the match is half done.
Why am i the one being punished? i have Amarr logi Lv5, uplinks Lv5, Remotes Lv5, Nanohives Lv4. Thats a big SP investment. Everyone else with a dep SP investment can continue to use their investment the whole game. Scouts can use their cloak all match. They can switch to a crazy AV fit wtih no "bandwith" things. Its my SP that becomes useless, cause I am then forced into a more frontline role. Im a solo player. Why would i go around repping squads and reviving them? These people kill me all day long. My job and my pay is to provide a supply line to the front line.
Do I switch fits to slay? Only when there are so many people putting equipment that my job is useless. If they want to restrict certain deployables to the logi suits, and make it so that if you deploy you have to stay a logi, im ok with that. But the proposed changes hurt me, a dedicated logi, and does nothing to stop someone who is not a logi from deploying hives and uplinks. 6 non logis and their 1 uplink each is more harmful than me and my 4 well placed ones.
P.S. Dont use the fact that im Gallente against me.
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
15216
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Posted - 2014.11.27 18:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
If you want to provide logistic support, you should have to be in a logistics suit. Just because you feel entitled to free equipment spam while you run around as a different role doesn't mean you should be able to. This is a change thats actually good for the health of the game.
And hey, at least now if you reaaaallllyyyy don't like the change, you can respec.
They could consider giving large pools of bandwidth to logis so you could have like 10 equipments out at a time, but if you switch away from logi at any point, they poof
Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube
WoD 514
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1306
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Posted - 2014.11.27 20:08:00 -
[60] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:IMO You shouldn't have access to logistical tools if you are not willing to keep your logistics players on the field.
If anything I see this as a chance to affirm the role. Using your equipment sparingly and with less intent to simply ring an objective with Nanohives and Uplinks before completely changing role to something else.
Ok...so what is the similar trade off that ANY OTHER role will make?
The logi players, dedicated support players mind you, will be forced into far sharper trade offs than any other role because the "cost" of switching suits mid-fight won't be nearly as impactful to any other role on the battlefield.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15125
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Posted - 2014.11.27 20:14:00 -
[61] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:True Adamance wrote:IMO You shouldn't have access to logistical tools if you are not willing to keep your logistics players on the field.
If anything I see this as a chance to affirm the role. Using your equipment sparingly and with less intent to simply ring an objective with Nanohives and Uplinks before completely changing role to something else. Ok...so what is the similar trade off that ANY OTHER role will make? The logi players, dedicated support players mind you, will be forced into far sharper trade offs than any other role because the "cost" of switching suits mid-fight won't be nearly as impactful to any other role on the battlefield.
You make fair points there I accept that there will be sharper trade offs for the logistics players. That doesn't really sit right with me. Logi players shouldn't be punished for using their equipment but in equal measure they should not be encouraged to place exorbitant amounts of equipment all over the map, they should be incentive to use it properly.
However you have yet to suggest why the logistics player should gain the benefit of using their suit, switching to another, and continuing to have personal and team wide benefits despite being a completely different role.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Terry Webber
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
508
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Posted - 2014.11.27 21:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
The equipment bandwidth would also limit the clutter when choosing an uplink to spawn on. Currently, sometimes I would select the wrong uplink and spawn in the wrong place because of this. One or two uplinks would be enough to reach a certain location. |
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1306
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Posted - 2014.11.27 21:43:00 -
[63] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
However you have yet to suggest why the logistics player should gain the benefit of using their suit, switching to another, and continuing to have personal and team wide benefits despite being a completely different role.
Every suit has this ability to varying degrees already...the uplinks you placed in the perfect spot as a scout remain, correct? Even with bandwidth applied those uplinks will likely still be active when that scout switches to his Six Kin HMG fit then back to his cloak shotgunner fit a few minutes later. Effectively every suit can enjoy the benefits you describe while being in a different role and switch roles with near impunity. I for one actually think that is a strength of the game.
The issue is the scale or capacity for spam that logi suits have seem to be the point of contention you bring up. There is no way to impact that without a negative impact on Logi suits short of a dramatic revision of how equipment works in the game. Perhaps the idea of squad bandwidth might level things out...it's honestly difficult to tell.
There are numerous variables that are difficult to sort through to try and find an optimal solution in regards to equipment spam. Logi suits desperately need significant redesign already and perhaps bandwidth can be a positive factor but it can't simply be another constraint that they carry the lionshare of the consequences on.
One thing i do know about Dust is that nothing scales well. Two scouts add flavor and variety to a team and added tactical challenge to an opponent but 13 of them on one team is broken. The same can be said for heavies, vehicles, and apparently equipment.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15125
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Posted - 2014.11.27 22:18:00 -
[64] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:True Adamance wrote:
However you have yet to suggest why the logistics player should gain the benefit of using their suit, switching to another, and continuing to have personal and team wide benefits despite being a completely different role.
Every suit has this ability to varying degrees already...the uplinks you placed in the perfect spot as a scout remain, correct? Even with bandwidth applied those uplinks will likely still be active when that scout switches to his Six Kin HMG fit then back to his cloak shotgunner fit a few minutes later. Effectively every suit can enjoy the benefits you describe while being in a different role and switch roles with near impunity. I for one actually think that is a strength of the game. The issue is the scale or capacity for spam that logi suits have seem to be the point of contention you bring up. There is no way to impact that without a negative impact on Logi suits short of a dramatic revision of how equipment works in the game. Perhaps the idea of squad bandwidth might level things out...it's honestly difficult to tell. There are numerous variables that are difficult to sort through to try and find an optimal solution in regards to equipment spam. Logi suits desperately need significant redesign already and perhaps bandwidth can be a positive factor but it can't simply be another constraint that they carry the lionshare of the consequences on. One thing i do know about Dust is that nothing scales well. Two scouts add flavor and variety to a team and added tactical challenge to an opponent but 13 of them on one team is broken. The same can be said for heavies, vehicles, and apparently equipment.
Now that is well reasoned.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
17
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Posted - 2014.11.28 17:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:True Adamance wrote:
However you have yet to suggest why the logistics player should gain the benefit of using their suit, switching to another, and continuing to have personal and team wide benefits despite being a completely different role.
Every suit has this ability to varying degrees already...the uplinks you placed in the perfect spot as a scout remain, correct? Even with bandwidth applied those uplinks will likely still be active when that scout switches to his Six Kin HMG fit then back to his cloak shotgunner fit a few minutes later. Effectively every suit can enjoy the benefits you describe while being in a different role and switch roles with near impunity. I for one actually think that is a strength of the game. The issue is the scale or capacity for spam that logi suits have seem to be the point of contention you bring up. There is no way to impact that without a negative impact on Logi suits short of a dramatic revision of how equipment works in the game. Perhaps the idea of squad bandwidth might level things out...it's honestly difficult to tell. There are numerous variables that are difficult to sort through to try and find an optimal solution in regards to equipment spam. Logi suits desperately need significant redesign already and perhaps bandwidth can be a positive factor but it can't simply be another constraint that they carry the lionshare of the consequences on. One thing i do know about Dust is that nothing scales well. Two scouts add flavor and variety to a team and added tactical challenge to an opponent but 13 of them on one team is broken. The same can be said for heavies, vehicles, and apparently equipment. Now that is well reasoned.
Bumping because i want a blue tag to address this directly.
Dust 5/14
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
651
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Posted - 2014.11.29 20:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
I don't think Blue Tags like my posts.. They don't respond well to me constantly reminding them of nerfed caldari gear.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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Jynx'D
Heaven's Lost Property
Negative-Feedback
209
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Posted - 2014.11.29 21:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
This is an easy solution, one I've already mentioned in council chambers.
There idea of bandwidth needs tweaking - instead of it going from player to player the bandwidth would work like how Vehicles work - this opens up the game for AWOXers to be even more potent while teamwork and logistics aren't harmed.
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1329
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Posted - 2014.11.29 21:41:00 -
[68] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:I don't think Blue Tags like my posts.. They don't respond well to me constantly reminding them of nerfed caldari gear.
I get a similar feeling on occasion.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2945
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Posted - 2014.11.29 22:18:00 -
[69] - Quote
Equipment spam needs to go...its just BS really...
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
756
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Posted - 2014.11.29 22:18:00 -
[70] - Quote
On topic: Good discussion. I'm personally in favor of BW as a whole, but recognize that Logi's take the largest hit as well
Off topic: Why does the youtube video of you playing the game run and look smoother than the TV in front of me...
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4755
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Posted - 2014.11.30 01:49:00 -
[71] - Quote
Jynx'D wrote:This is an easy solution, one I've already mentioned in council chambers.
There idea of bandwidth needs tweaking - instead of it going from player to player the bandwidth would work like how Vehicles work - this opens up the game for AWOXers to be even more potent while teamwork and logistics aren't harmed.
God no. Awoxers would be WAY too effective.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Jynx'D
Heaven's Lost Property
Negative-Feedback
218
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Posted - 2014.11.30 02:53:00 -
[72] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Jynx'D wrote:This is an easy solution, one I've already mentioned in council chambers.
There idea of bandwidth needs tweaking - instead of it going from player to player the bandwidth would work like how Vehicles work - this opens up the game for AWOXers to be even more potent while teamwork and logistics aren't harmed.
God no. Awoxers would be WAY too effective.
Honestly, there solution is just as bad. They're literally trying to force more players into needing more SP in there teams to compete.
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14028
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Posted - 2014.11.30 03:32:00 -
[73] - Quote
I'm appalled at all the people who feel as if the enjoyment of their playstyle (not even going to bother debating about the merits considering spamming EQ everywhere and swamping suits as a role) should come at the cost of others ability to play the game as it was intended.
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Ok...so what is the similar trade off that ANY OTHER role will make?
If I switch out from my Scout, I won't keep my low profile.
If I switch out from my Sentinel, I won't keep my resistances
If I switch out from my Assault, I won't keep my increased mag size.
If I switch out from my Commando, I won't keep my increased damage.
So If I switch out from my Logistics, why should I keep my equipment? As shown above other classes don't get the luxury (nor should they ever) of keeping their benefits when they switch to a different class, therefore the Logistics shouldn't.
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:The logi players, dedicated support players mind you, will be forced into far sharper trade offs than any other role because the "cost" of switching suits mid-fight won't be nearly as impactful to any other role on the battlefield.
If you're actually dedicated to the Logistics role, you'll have no problems with remaining as a Logistics throughout the battle. It's no sharper a trade-off than what any other role faces on a match per match basis.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
15295
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Posted - 2014.11.30 03:43:00 -
[74] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Being in a tank doesn't require a specific dropsuit. Nor does being a hacker (ironically, logi dropsuits receive a 10% bonus to hack speed). You aren't comparing apples to apples.
This isn't about roles. This is about players abusing deployable equipment to farm WPs while they slay. If you want to drop some uplinks then do so in your assault fitting; I do it in mine. They work fine and the bandwidth update won't effect you except you won't be able to drop a dozen of them now... which is good because you aren't in a logi dropsuit. Dropping dozens of uplinks is a logi-thing. I wish high tier vehicle use did require a suit......
Ew
No thanks. Pilot suits are an aweful idea honestly. CCP already can't balance vehicles, god forbid they force us to waste even MORE SP on a suit that will ultimately just give us average vehicles, while anyone without them rides around in garbage.
Bad idea is and always has been bad
Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube
WoD 514
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15213
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Posted - 2014.11.30 04:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Being in a tank doesn't require a specific dropsuit. Nor does being a hacker (ironically, logi dropsuits receive a 10% bonus to hack speed). You aren't comparing apples to apples.
This isn't about roles. This is about players abusing deployable equipment to farm WPs while they slay. If you want to drop some uplinks then do so in your assault fitting; I do it in mine. They work fine and the bandwidth update won't effect you except you won't be able to drop a dozen of them now... which is good because you aren't in a logi dropsuit. Dropping dozens of uplinks is a logi-thing. I wish high tier vehicle use did require a suit...... Ew No thanks. Pilot suits are an aweful idea honestly. CCP already can't balance vehicles, god forbid they force us to waste even MORE SP on a suit that will ultimately just give us average vehicles, while anyone without them rides around in garbage. Bad idea is and always has been bad
I don't necessarily want them to do anything but I would like a visual representation that I am a pilot.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
654
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Posted - 2014.11.30 12:19:00 -
[76] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:On topic: Good discussion. I'm personally in favor of BW as a whole, but recognize that Logi's take the largest hit as well
Off topic: Why does the youtube video of you playing the game run and look smoother than the TV in front of me...
Actually, it looks even better when I run HDMI. Thats the RGB signal.
This is with a hacked HDMI signal, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frhKbi0etS8&index=5&list=PLWF80nZ7S_5rBCfndGldOPaj4IH3YPqnh
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOh5A7bXEYA&list=PLWF80nZ7S_5rBCfndGldOPaj4IH3YPqnh&index=1
I tend to record with RGB now to keep it friendly with EULAs.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
659
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Posted - 2014.12.02 16:19:00 -
[77] - Quote
Well,
it looks like Equipment Bandwidth is being deployed anyway. Removing of play/counter play to reinforce forced squad formation to reward a play style that not everyone can easily access.
Not everyone can squad up and not everyone can have comms all the time.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1344
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Posted - 2014.12.03 03:32:00 -
[78] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Well,
it looks like Equipment Bandwidth is being deployed anyway. Removing of play/counter play to reinforce forced squad formation to reward a play style that not everyone can easily access.
Not everyone can squad up and not everyone can have comms all the time.
I understand your perspective and certainly fall into some of those categories on occasions. The bandwidth concept is coming and as much as I am dissatisfied with it I do want to make it as good of an option as it can be. I'll carefully catalogue where it can be optimized and made better and be prepared to offer that when i get the chance.
That said, I would welcome the chance to squad with you if you see me online - coms or not.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
895
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Posted - 2014.12.03 03:35:00 -
[79] - Quote
Bandwidth will BREAK ADVANCED SOLDIERING.
Time for pew pew pew, everyone. Prepare yourself to be pigeon holed.
That is all.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
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