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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15125
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Posted - 2014.11.27 20:14:00 -
[61] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:True Adamance wrote:IMO You shouldn't have access to logistical tools if you are not willing to keep your logistics players on the field.
If anything I see this as a chance to affirm the role. Using your equipment sparingly and with less intent to simply ring an objective with Nanohives and Uplinks before completely changing role to something else. Ok...so what is the similar trade off that ANY OTHER role will make? The logi players, dedicated support players mind you, will be forced into far sharper trade offs than any other role because the "cost" of switching suits mid-fight won't be nearly as impactful to any other role on the battlefield.
You make fair points there I accept that there will be sharper trade offs for the logistics players. That doesn't really sit right with me. Logi players shouldn't be punished for using their equipment but in equal measure they should not be encouraged to place exorbitant amounts of equipment all over the map, they should be incentive to use it properly.
However you have yet to suggest why the logistics player should gain the benefit of using their suit, switching to another, and continuing to have personal and team wide benefits despite being a completely different role.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Terry Webber
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
508
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Posted - 2014.11.27 21:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
The equipment bandwidth would also limit the clutter when choosing an uplink to spawn on. Currently, sometimes I would select the wrong uplink and spawn in the wrong place because of this. One or two uplinks would be enough to reach a certain location. |
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1306
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Posted - 2014.11.27 21:43:00 -
[63] - Quote
True Adamance wrote: However you have yet to suggest why the logistics player should gain the benefit of using their suit, switching to another, and continuing to have personal and team wide benefits despite being a completely different role.
Every suit has this ability to varying degrees already...the uplinks you placed in the perfect spot as a scout remain, correct? Even with bandwidth applied those uplinks will likely still be active when that scout switches to his Six Kin HMG fit then back to his cloak shotgunner fit a few minutes later. Effectively every suit can enjoy the benefits you describe while being in a different role and switch roles with near impunity. I for one actually think that is a strength of the game.
The issue is the scale or capacity for spam that logi suits have seem to be the point of contention you bring up. There is no way to impact that without a negative impact on Logi suits short of a dramatic revision of how equipment works in the game. Perhaps the idea of squad bandwidth might level things out...it's honestly difficult to tell.
There are numerous variables that are difficult to sort through to try and find an optimal solution in regards to equipment spam. Logi suits desperately need significant redesign already and perhaps bandwidth can be a positive factor but it can't simply be another constraint that they carry the lionshare of the consequences on.
One thing i do know about Dust is that nothing scales well. Two scouts add flavor and variety to a team and added tactical challenge to an opponent but 13 of them on one team is broken. The same can be said for heavies, vehicles, and apparently equipment.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15125
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Posted - 2014.11.27 22:18:00 -
[64] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:True Adamance wrote: However you have yet to suggest why the logistics player should gain the benefit of using their suit, switching to another, and continuing to have personal and team wide benefits despite being a completely different role.
Every suit has this ability to varying degrees already...the uplinks you placed in the perfect spot as a scout remain, correct? Even with bandwidth applied those uplinks will likely still be active when that scout switches to his Six Kin HMG fit then back to his cloak shotgunner fit a few minutes later. Effectively every suit can enjoy the benefits you describe while being in a different role and switch roles with near impunity. I for one actually think that is a strength of the game. The issue is the scale or capacity for spam that logi suits have seem to be the point of contention you bring up. There is no way to impact that without a negative impact on Logi suits short of a dramatic revision of how equipment works in the game. Perhaps the idea of squad bandwidth might level things out...it's honestly difficult to tell. There are numerous variables that are difficult to sort through to try and find an optimal solution in regards to equipment spam. Logi suits desperately need significant redesign already and perhaps bandwidth can be a positive factor but it can't simply be another constraint that they carry the lionshare of the consequences on. One thing i do know about Dust is that nothing scales well. Two scouts add flavor and variety to a team and added tactical challenge to an opponent but 13 of them on one team is broken. The same can be said for heavies, vehicles, and apparently equipment.
Now that is well reasoned.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Z3dog
BIG BAD W0LVES
17
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Posted - 2014.11.28 17:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:True Adamance wrote: However you have yet to suggest why the logistics player should gain the benefit of using their suit, switching to another, and continuing to have personal and team wide benefits despite being a completely different role.
Every suit has this ability to varying degrees already...the uplinks you placed in the perfect spot as a scout remain, correct? Even with bandwidth applied those uplinks will likely still be active when that scout switches to his Six Kin HMG fit then back to his cloak shotgunner fit a few minutes later. Effectively every suit can enjoy the benefits you describe while being in a different role and switch roles with near impunity. I for one actually think that is a strength of the game. The issue is the scale or capacity for spam that logi suits have seem to be the point of contention you bring up. There is no way to impact that without a negative impact on Logi suits short of a dramatic revision of how equipment works in the game. Perhaps the idea of squad bandwidth might level things out...it's honestly difficult to tell. There are numerous variables that are difficult to sort through to try and find an optimal solution in regards to equipment spam. Logi suits desperately need significant redesign already and perhaps bandwidth can be a positive factor but it can't simply be another constraint that they carry the lionshare of the consequences on. One thing i do know about Dust is that nothing scales well. Two scouts add flavor and variety to a team and added tactical challenge to an opponent but 13 of them on one team is broken. The same can be said for heavies, vehicles, and apparently equipment. Now that is well reasoned. Bumping because i want a blue tag to address this directly.
Dust 5/14
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
651
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Posted - 2014.11.29 20:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
I don't think Blue Tags like my posts.. They don't respond well to me constantly reminding them of nerfed caldari gear.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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Jynx'D
Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback
209
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Posted - 2014.11.29 21:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
This is an easy solution, one I've already mentioned in council chambers.
There idea of bandwidth needs tweaking - instead of it going from player to player the bandwidth would work like how Vehicles work - this opens up the game for AWOXers to be even more potent while teamwork and logistics aren't harmed.
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1329
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Posted - 2014.11.29 21:41:00 -
[68] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:I don't think Blue Tags like my posts.. They don't respond well to me constantly reminding them of nerfed caldari gear.
I get a similar feeling on occasion.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2945
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Posted - 2014.11.29 22:18:00 -
[69] - Quote
Equipment spam needs to go...its just BS really...
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
756
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Posted - 2014.11.29 22:18:00 -
[70] - Quote
On topic: Good discussion. I'm personally in favor of BW as a whole, but recognize that Logi's take the largest hit as well
Off topic: Why does the youtube video of you playing the game run and look smoother than the TV in front of me...
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4755
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Posted - 2014.11.30 01:49:00 -
[71] - Quote
Jynx'D wrote:This is an easy solution, one I've already mentioned in council chambers.
There idea of bandwidth needs tweaking - instead of it going from player to player the bandwidth would work like how Vehicles work - this opens up the game for AWOXers to be even more potent while teamwork and logistics aren't harmed.
God no. Awoxers would be WAY too effective.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Jynx'D
Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback
218
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Posted - 2014.11.30 02:53:00 -
[72] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Jynx'D wrote:This is an easy solution, one I've already mentioned in council chambers.
There idea of bandwidth needs tweaking - instead of it going from player to player the bandwidth would work like how Vehicles work - this opens up the game for AWOXers to be even more potent while teamwork and logistics aren't harmed.
God no. Awoxers would be WAY too effective. Honestly, there solution is just as bad. They're literally trying to force more players into needing more SP in there teams to compete.
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14028
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Posted - 2014.11.30 03:32:00 -
[73] - Quote
I'm appalled at all the people who feel as if the enjoyment of their playstyle (not even going to bother debating about the merits considering spamming EQ everywhere and swamping suits as a role) should come at the cost of others ability to play the game as it was intended.
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Ok...so what is the similar trade off that ANY OTHER role will make? If I switch out from my Scout, I won't keep my low profile. If I switch out from my Sentinel, I won't keep my resistances If I switch out from my Assault, I won't keep my increased mag size. If I switch out from my Commando, I won't keep my increased damage.
So If I switch out from my Logistics, why should I keep my equipment? As shown above other classes don't get the luxury (nor should they ever) of keeping their benefits when they switch to a different class, therefore the Logistics shouldn't.
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:The logi players, dedicated support players mind you, will be forced into far sharper trade offs than any other role because the "cost" of switching suits mid-fight won't be nearly as impactful to any other role on the battlefield. If you're actually dedicated to the Logistics role, you'll have no problems with remaining as a Logistics throughout the battle. It's no sharper a trade-off than what any other role faces on a match per match basis.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
15295
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Posted - 2014.11.30 03:43:00 -
[74] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Being in a tank doesn't require a specific dropsuit. Nor does being a hacker (ironically, logi dropsuits receive a 10% bonus to hack speed). You aren't comparing apples to apples.
This isn't about roles. This is about players abusing deployable equipment to farm WPs while they slay. If you want to drop some uplinks then do so in your assault fitting; I do it in mine. They work fine and the bandwidth update won't effect you except you won't be able to drop a dozen of them now... which is good because you aren't in a logi dropsuit. Dropping dozens of uplinks is a logi-thing. I wish high tier vehicle use did require a suit...... Ew
No thanks. Pilot suits are an aweful idea honestly. CCP already can't balance vehicles, god forbid they force us to waste even MORE SP on a suit that will ultimately just give us average vehicles, while anyone without them rides around in garbage.
Bad idea is and always has been bad
Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube
WoD 514
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15213
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Posted - 2014.11.30 04:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Being in a tank doesn't require a specific dropsuit. Nor does being a hacker (ironically, logi dropsuits receive a 10% bonus to hack speed). You aren't comparing apples to apples.
This isn't about roles. This is about players abusing deployable equipment to farm WPs while they slay. If you want to drop some uplinks then do so in your assault fitting; I do it in mine. They work fine and the bandwidth update won't effect you except you won't be able to drop a dozen of them now... which is good because you aren't in a logi dropsuit. Dropping dozens of uplinks is a logi-thing. I wish high tier vehicle use did require a suit...... Ew No thanks. Pilot suits are an aweful idea honestly. CCP already can't balance vehicles, god forbid they force us to waste even MORE SP on a suit that will ultimately just give us average vehicles, while anyone without them rides around in garbage. Bad idea is and always has been bad
I don't necessarily want them to do anything but I would like a visual representation that I am a pilot.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
654
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Posted - 2014.11.30 12:19:00 -
[76] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:On topic: Good discussion. I'm personally in favor of BW as a whole, but recognize that Logi's take the largest hit as well
Off topic: Why does the youtube video of you playing the game run and look smoother than the TV in front of me...
Actually, it looks even better when I run HDMI. Thats the RGB signal.
This is with a hacked HDMI signal, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frhKbi0etS8&index=5&list=PLWF80nZ7S_5rBCfndGldOPaj4IH3YPqnh
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOh5A7bXEYA&list=PLWF80nZ7S_5rBCfndGldOPaj4IH3YPqnh&index=1
I tend to record with RGB now to keep it friendly with EULAs.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
659
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Posted - 2014.12.02 16:19:00 -
[77] - Quote
Well,
it looks like Equipment Bandwidth is being deployed anyway. Removing of play/counter play to reinforce forced squad formation to reward a play style that not everyone can easily access.
Not everyone can squad up and not everyone can have comms all the time.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1344
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Posted - 2014.12.03 03:32:00 -
[78] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Well,
it looks like Equipment Bandwidth is being deployed anyway. Removing of play/counter play to reinforce forced squad formation to reward a play style that not everyone can easily access.
Not everyone can squad up and not everyone can have comms all the time.
I understand your perspective and certainly fall into some of those categories on occasions. The bandwidth concept is coming and as much as I am dissatisfied with it I do want to make it as good of an option as it can be. I'll carefully catalogue where it can be optimized and made better and be prepared to offer that when i get the chance.
That said, I would welcome the chance to squad with you if you see me online - coms or not.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
895
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Posted - 2014.12.03 03:35:00 -
[79] - Quote
Bandwidth will BREAK ADVANCED SOLDIERING.
Time for pew pew pew, everyone. Prepare yourself to be pigeon holed.
That is all.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
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