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Equipment Bandwidth - Video of Gameplay Style proposed for removal

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NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 639	Posted - 2014.11.26 19:36:00 - [1] - Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNqtvTc1_UE&feature=youtu.be ^^ I'm not the best player but I wanted to show off some of the game play that is being REMOVED from the game with the addition of the proposed Equipment Bandwidth. Some say this play style is a EXPLOIT and are fighting to remove it from the game. I'm not so sure I should have to join a squad to enjoy playing the game. But you guys fight it out, not the first time horrible ideas where pushed into Dust 514. Post up your comments here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2482085#post2482085 Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
ReGnYuM Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 3324	Posted - 2014.11.26 19:46:00 - [2] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNqtvTc1_UE&feature=youtu.be ^^ I'm not the best player but I wanted to show off some of the game play that is being REMOVED from the game with the addition of the proposed Equipment Bandwidth. Some say this play style is a EXPLOIT and are fighting to remove it from the game. I'm not so sure I should have to join a squad to enjoy playing the game. But you guys fight it out, not the first time horrible ideas where pushed into Dust 514. Post up your comments here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2482085#post2482085 I understand that Dust 514 has a strong logistical aspect, but this is FPS first and foremost. Equipment spam effects Frame rate and overall performance, and I find it unacceptable for play-style to jeopardize or demote the game play of others... especially when it effects core mechanics.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 639	Posted - 2014.11.26 19:48:00 - [3] - Quote Show me in this video where performance was jeopardized. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2235	Posted - 2014.11.26 19:50:00 - [4] - Quote While I'm not so sure the proposed bandwidth idea is good (as I haven't actually read about it in detail) I know for sure that being able to play more than one role at the same time, in this case Logi + another, is an incredible stupid mechanic that absolutely needs fixing. Without knowing the details on the bandwidth idea, I would probably like the idea of deployed equipment selfdestructing if the owner spawns in a suit without that specific item equipped more. As for solo play being rather stupid, I still, as I always have, blame the rather terrible gamemodes and the pretty much non-existant squad/command structure. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Ku Shala The Generals 1030	Posted - 2014.11.26 19:50:00 - [5] - Quote im very mixed on the proposal. I hate the all out spam that can happen but what about when your the only logi on your team and other uncontrollable things like forge gunners needing ammo afar and needing elevated places to spawn that are not going to trap a heavy. I cant set a link and spawn without my equips exploding? I like the bandwidth idea but its should be a skill on the skill tree low cost multiplier on a per player basis no matter what suit you are wearing, tactical logiing is fair play in my mind. *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist *Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19412	Posted - 2014.11.26 19:50:00 - [6] - Quote You threw down a handful of uplinks and then played heavy all match. So? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Glorious pink victory has been achieved.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5096	Posted - 2014.11.26 19:51:00 - [7] - Quote No sympathy for you. Sorry. If you want to support your team with deployable equipment run a logistics dropsuit. That's their niche. You don't get the WP flood of drop uplinks, nanohives, AND slaying in a sentinel or scout dropsuit. You must choose one now; it's a smart decision on CCP's part that just happens to improve framerate too. My advice to you, playa...
hfderrtgvcd 1273	Posted - 2014.11.26 19:53:00 - [8] - Quote Just wanted to let you know that you can only have two active uplinks unless you're using the gauged. Dropping 3 flux is pointless You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 640	Posted - 2014.11.26 19:54:00 - [9] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: You threw down a handful of uplinks and then played heavy all match. So? From watching some of the proposed ideas, people are pushing to "ONLY" letting you use equipment if your in a equipment suit the entire game. IE If you want to put down proxy mines you need to say in your bandwidth enabled suit until they are triggered. They have this crazy idea that if people are FORCED to have to stay in a logi suit the entire match it will help field more logistic suits on the battle field. On top of paying the price for a suit loss they are forced to play in sub par fit for the situation which I feel removes game play flexibility. (Also sometimes I will drop more then 2 uplinks if my spot is closer or if I don't remember which position the equipment is in while deploying.. better safe then sorry) >> @Ripley Riley Still people forget that you are losing time by always switching suits and you have to pay for the suits as this play style losses lots of uplink suits which cost lots of ISK. But hey that's the price I pay for keeping us out of the redline. Just because you think everyone should play only one class after spawning into a battle is just crazy. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19414	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:02:00 - [10] - Quote It doesn't mean you're restricted to one class at all. It just means that you can't only use your logi to chuck down deployables at a supply depot or at the start of the match and then spend the entire match in a heavy. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Glorious pink victory has been achieved.

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5097	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:02:00 - [11] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Still people forget that you are losing time by always switching suits and you have to pay for the suits as this play style losses lots of uplink suits which cost lots of ISK. But hey that's the price I pay for keeping us out of the redline. Just because you think everyone should play only one class after spawning into a battle is just crazy. Still no sympathy for you. This mechanic should have been in Dust 514 since day 0; it prevents abuse of deployable equipment. The only thing that sucks about this change will be weaning people off of getting 1,000+ WP's per match from equipment they dropped before switching to an HMG sentinel. Adapt or die, homie, adapt or die. My advice to you, playa...
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4724	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:09:00 - [12] - Quote Skimmed it. 15 minutes is a long time to watch. Anyway, I get it, you want to be a one man army and do stuff for the blueberries. However, what's good for you is not always good for the game. I don't see why you should be able to drop a bunch of uplinks and then go run around with 1200HP and an HMG. I don't get to do that. Second, and probably more important, the flaw with this argument (i.e., we would have been redlined because I'm the only competent player on my team doing all this) completely ignores the effect BW has on the other team. You see all that EQ they spammed all around the objective and then surrounded by 5 sentinels? With bandwidth: GONE BW gets rid of that for the other team, too. True story. (As an aside, in ML you can't find a squad? I know you're also still in the old LOI channel (not that it's super active anymore) and still, you can't ever get a sqaud? That's hard to believe.) (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2153	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:27:00 - [13] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNqtvTc1_UE&feature=youtu.be ^^ I'm not the best player but I wanted to show off some of the game play that is being REMOVED from the game with the addition of the proposed Equipment Bandwidth. Some say this play style is a EXPLOIT and are fighting to remove it from the game. I'm not so sure I should have to join a squad to enjoy playing the game. But you guys fight it out, not the first time horrible ideas where pushed into Dust 514. Post up your comments here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2482085#post2482085 I understand that Dust 514 has a strong logistical aspect, but this is FPS first and foremost. Equipment spam effects Frame rate and overall performance, and I find it unacceptable for a play-style to jeopardize or demote the game play of others... especially when it effects core mechanics. firstly before CCP kills dust with bandwidth lets just see how the new orbitals effect the game and spam first.. EMP orbitals = <3 #[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2335	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:45:00 - [14] - Quote If equipment spam is sacrificed at the altar of a better Dust, I say let the killings begin! Sorry, as much as I value team gameplay (and your particular style, NDN, of filling in the gaps is very close to my own), I cannot get past the underlying meta problems that equipment spam has caused this game. So, I, for one, support the bandwidth proposal, although like all changes we need to keep a close eye on its effect for further tweaking. The good news here, I think, is that CCP (and Rattati, in particular) seems to have a good feel for what needs to be done to keep the game in balance and performing well, even if I've not always supported all of the changes personally (and I hope the same can be said for you after this one is in the rear view mirror). So I say voice your opinion (as you have done) but take a wait and see approach to this one -- my sense is once we have it in the rear view mirror (and we all have had time to adapt) this one will end up being another step in the right direction. Nice RE there near the end, BTW. ;)
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2769	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:45:00 - [15] - Quote You can use framing on both sides to make the other side look worse. Your argument: You are FORCED to stay as a specific suit if you want to make the most out of your equipment. I, as a solo player, will not be able to help my team out as much by using Uplinks because I will be FORCED to stay in that role. The dev's argument: Being able to go into a Logistics suit for 5 seconds, throw down all the equipment, and go back to your primary role lets you do two roles at once. This means that true dedicated Logistics players and new players are simply unable to compete in this field. How is it fair that you are capable of doing both your roles at the same time (Heavy and Logistics) while the dedicated Logi or new player can only do a single role? You just want to keep your advantage from a broken system! I am somewhere in the middle on this. It is kind of ridiculous that someone could spawn as a Logistics, throw down a bunch of hives, swap to a different Logistics, swap to Spawn Uplinks, than swap to a Scout/Heavy suit. In something like the Gallente Research Facility, with the Supply Depot being there you might as well have Logistics with an infinite amount of Equipment slots. They can throw down all their stuff and swap to the more active equipment like Needle, Scanner, and Repair Tool. As a Tanker, I cannot call in my tank to roam around the map and shoot people while I play in my Scout suit; this change makes it to where Logistics is on the same playing field. Watching the video actually make me see why the change is happening. The weakness of the Logistics (lower damage and tank) and the weakness of a Sentinel (lack of mobility and support) are nearly completely removed by the current system if you drop Equipment and switch over. Maybe you should have to stay in that role if you want to continue, you know, doing that role. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
postapo wastelander Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 727	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:46:00 - [16] - Quote Honestly if you kill my logi i will left for sure. I played most of games like support and i dont want change it :-¦ *"In the rust we trust"*
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2336	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:50:00 - [17] - Quote Do you rely on switching suits and spamming equipment? If so, your role will change -- you will need to be much more thoughtful in how you deploy equipment. So you guys who have been running suits at the beginning of the matches throwing a dozen or more uplinks, switching suits, and collecting +25 for the rest of the match should probably rethink that a bit. Be prepared. Adapt.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 640	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:51:00 - [18] - Quote @leadfoot My biggest grip is completely nerfing solo play at the cost of lowering some equipment spawn situations. You loss more from the game then you are gaining.. this pushes people to be required to squad instead of having thr option of playing solo. Adapting now is play a or b... just play better in a or b? Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4724	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:54:00 - [19] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: If solo equipment spam is sacrificed at the altar of a better Dust, I say let the killings begin. Sorry, as much as I value team gameplay (and your particular style, NDN, of filling in the gaps is very close to my own), I cannot get past the underlying meta problems that equipment spam has caused this game. So, I, for one, support the bandwidth proposal, although like all changes we need to keep a close eye on its effect for further tweaking. The good news here, I think, is that CCP (and Rattati, in particular) seems to have a good feel for what needs to be done to keep the game in balance and performing well, even if I've not always supported all of the changes personally (and I hope the same can be said for you after this one is in the rear view mirror). So I say voice your opinion (as you have done) but take a wait and see approach to this one -- my sense is once we have it in the rear view mirror (and we all have had time to adapt) this one will end up being another step in the right direction. Nice RE there near the end, BTW. ;) Exactly. If you don't like certain aspects of the proposal (the most frequent complint I see is proxies/RE's) then why not say, "well, how about we make RE's 2 BW and proxies 1?" instead of just throwing the whole thing out. Or, come up with a better proposal, because, let's face it, the status quo is not that great. Make BW a squad composite? Might be interesting to look into... not team-based tho, way too easy to awox there. Make EQ deactivate instead of pop? Tweak the numbers? Rattati is clearly open to iterative changes, so it's not like we are locked into anything. There's a whole lot of wiggle room between "Bandwidth gets directly implemented as first proposed, no changes." and "BW kills the game, here's the torches and pitchforks to prove it." Try to find a place in the middle there you like. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2336	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:55:00 - [20] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: @leadfoot My biggest grip is completely nerfing solo play at the cost of lowering some equipment spawn situations. You loss more from the game then you are gaining.. this pushes people to be required to squad instead of having thr option of playing solo. Adapting now is play a or b... just play better in a or b? I don't disagree with you on the potential for nerfing solog play, but let's be honest.... If the teams have half a brain: EVERY SINGLE PC, DOM, AND SKIRMISH TURNS INTO EQUIPMENT SPAM. Bottom line: It is a mechanic that needs to go, and I think you are overestimating the meta improvements this change will have overall while focusing too much on a perceived shortcoming (i.e. "loss of solo gameplay") -- before you've ever played the game with the proposed changes. Take a deep breath, let's go kill some bitches, and let's see how it turns out. Send me an invite.

NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 640	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:57:00 - [21] - Quote Best two proposals is band with is based on squad Or Equipment cant be stacked near other equipment. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
postapo wastelander Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 727	Posted - 2014.11.26 20:57:00 - [22] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: @leadfoot My biggest grip is completely nerfing solo play at the cost of lowering some equipment spawn situations. You loss more from the game then you are gaining.. this pushes people to be required to squad instead of having thr option of playing solo. Adapting now is play a or b... just play better in a or b? Whats mean you basicaly nerf guy who will have already disadvantage, i dont like that. Even a soloing bluberry can change wave in the battle. Even be a inspiration for newbie grups in game. And you want to make him fight more sour?! Not nice, honeslty not nice at all :-¦ *"In the rust we trust"*
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 765	Posted - 2014.11.26 21:11:00 - [23] - Quote As a player who usually runs a logi, I'm torn between the proposed changes because I'm unsure of some issues. If I get in my droplink suit and flood the map, then switch to my normal suit thats a variation of equipment, am I going to lose all the droplinks? I understand if I start throwing down hives and exceed my bandwidth, things will start popping, but what about just based on the fit? Again, I'd prefer CCP do one thing at a time here. Figure out either the new orbitals or bandwidth (personally, I'd go orbitals first) and see what that does. Or maybe a flux variant with a massive AoE for equipment that has no effect on shields, something along the lines of 50-100 M radius that's not stopped by walls, floors or celinings. That way, you can clear some underground stronghold before you go in. Maybe I'm just skittish around the word "bandwidth" after it was introduced for drones in EVE, but that's the solution I'd like least introduced into Dust.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4730	Posted - 2014.11.26 21:17:00 - [24] - Quote RayRay James wrote: As a player who usually runs a logi, I'm torn between the proposed changes because I'm unsure of some issues. If I get in my droplink suit and flood the map, then switch to my normal suit thats a variation of equipment, am I going to lose all the droplinks? I understand if I start throwing down hives and exceed my bandwidth, things will start popping, but what about just based on the fit? Again, I'd prefer CCP do one thing at a time here. Figure out either the new orbitals or bandwidth (personally, I'd go orbitals first) and see what that does. Or maybe a flux variant with a massive AoE for equipment that has no effect on shields, something along the lines of 50-100 M radius that's not stopped by walls, floors or celinings. That way, you can clear some underground stronghold before you go in. Maybe I'm just skittish around the word "bandwidth" after it was introduced for drones in EVE, but that's the solution I'd like least introduced into Dust. You are supposed to only lose the links if you have exceeded your BW. Has nothing to do with what's actually equiupped on the current suit, just what it's BW is. So, for example, you could use an uplink suit, drop 4 uplinks or whatever, and then switch to a more medic-type suit with rep/needle/whatever, the links stay. (However, I will be exactly 0% surprised if everything pops on suit switching for the first day or so of this being patched in.) (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10319	Posted - 2014.11.26 21:22:00 - [25] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Maybe I'm just skittish around the word "bandwidth" after it was introduced for drones in EVE, but that's the solution I'd like least introduced into Dust. So far the bandwidth hasn't given drone users in Eve Online any problems. Can you imagine a fleet of 1,000 drone boats unleashing a swarm of drones if the bandwidth wasn't there or if the drone number limit wasn't imposed? The only reason I'm ok with the proposed change for Dust is because I hate it when players create equipment spam which can cause serious frame rate issues in a given match especially in places like the Gallente Research basement, the Gallente Communications room by the supply depot, etc. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 765	Posted - 2014.11.26 21:38:00 - [26] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: RayRay James wrote: Maybe I'm just skittish around the word "bandwidth" after it was introduced for drones in EVE, but that's the solution I'd like least introduced into Dust. So far the bandwidth hasn't given drone users in Eve Online any problems. Can you imagine a fleet of 1,000 drone boats unleashing a swarm of drones if the bandwidth wasn't there or if the drone number limit wasn't imposed? The only reason I'm ok with the proposed change for Dust is because I hate it when players create equipment spam which can cause serious frame rate issues in a given match especially in places like the Gallente Research basement, the Gallente Communications room by the supply depot, etc. Yes, in fact I can imagine that, because I have an EVE char from '05 that I played through, consistently, until '12. I flew Myrmydons with 5x Ogre IIs, 5x Med Neut Blaster IIs, and 2x Med NOS. They screwed my drones and NOS in one patch. Anyways, I'm ok with them making changes to equipment spam to decrease the problems caused by it. I think I'd rather see a "No X equipment within Y meters of each other" approach vs the bandwidth proposal. edit / addition: I say this, only because I don't like limits being put on playstyle. I understand that no one should be able to fulfill 2 roles at the same time, and as a dedicated Logi of 2 years I'd love my role to be more valuable. I just don't want Logi's to get screwed because heavies like to equipment spam their static points of defense.
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 2005	Posted - 2014.11.26 21:52:00 - [27] - Quote Alright first off you really aren't the beat player, throwing remotes from the pipes in a ck.o? Really? Anyway I really like the bandwidth idea, it gives logis the role they were intended for, the master of equipment, logistics. Instead of a suit you spawn in with, dump all the equipment and switch to your slayer class. Logis will become really important to have and I'm sure there will be a few in a pub game, squad or not. Not to mention the frames we will save off equipment spam. Yes this change will make it harder for solo players who want to spam uplinks/hives. However it will give logistics a proper role and a reason to stay on the field and be tactical with equipment. Smart placement and management of equipment will be the mark of a good logistics player. Its a good thing. Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2623	Posted - 2014.11.26 21:58:00 - [28] - Quote I really don't understand the complaints. If you want to run equipment run logi, if you want to slay, swap suits to either a slayer logi fit, or to a suit with less BW and sacrifice some of that equipment. If equipment becomes more important to you in the match, switch back to your logi and lay down some more. Not that big of a deal. Best PvE idea ever!
postapo wastelander Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 737	Posted - 2014.11.26 22:02:00 - [29] - Quote Oki im lost now, whats is exactly issue. He want be Logi and heavy together. Or he want to make some limitations or what :p *"In the rust we trust"*
Erasmus Konstantin Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 47	Posted - 2014.11.26 23:18:00 - [30] - Quote bandwidth is coming regardless



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