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[Suggestion] How to increase the quality of gameplay in pubs

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B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:06:00 - [1] - Quote Remove proto from pubs, because it is by definition OP; because everyone hates being protostomped; and because that high-end gear belongs only in FW and PC. The reality of players running proto (and especially, squads of proto) in pub matches is just an incredibly poor experience for both sides. The winning side has an utterly hollow victory (of course you won, even at great cost). The losing side faces a blob of almost indestructible strafe-machines and are forced to decide between: Bring out your own expensive gear and settle in for an expensive, PC-like battle Stay in the same gear and take the beating Who wants to lose around a million ISK in a pub because they just didn't want to throw in the towel again? It would be like a multiplayer racing game where every 3rd or 4th match your team of Prius, Mini and Camry drivers went up against Team Ferrari and were expected to compete. We can all agree that would be a stupid, unbalanced and ultimately pointless event. So why does Dust allow the exact same thing? We talk about balance - CCP, CPM and the community pore over the numbers in minute detail, comparing like for like (i.e., basic CR vs basic AR) which is reasonable - except what about basic AR vs Kaalikiota RR? Is that balanced? Because that is the scenario that actually happens, very often, in pubs. Proposal* Use meta level to restrict proto suits, weapons and equipment to FW and PC, where they belong. Is there a strong reason why this would be a bad idea? There are countless "Protostomping is bullshit" threads on here, this seems like an reasonable solution. *Well, with the exception of hardcore scrubs who actually enjoy winning with a grossly unfair advantage - but we should ignore those guys because they shouldn't be the customers who are primarily catered to, however vocal they may be. GöÇGòñGòªn++ Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting. n++GòªGòñGöÇ
Bax Zanith Sinfonia1898 219	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:25:00 - [2] - Quote My signature explains public matches perfectly well. Unless your protostomping, then the only useful thing you really can do is put on a starter fit, run out in the middle of the map and wait for someone to one shot you. Then do it over and over again until the end of the "match", because unless you have a full proto suit, your worthless. Your only there to pad the KDRs of vetteren players, that's the only role you serve in this game if you don't protostomp. That's how it is, and I sadly don't ever see it changing. Your either the cow or the butcher. "You're either the cow or the butcher."
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:33:00 - [3] - Quote Bax Zanith wrote: My signature explains public matches perfectly well. Unless your protostomping, then the only useful thing you really can do is put on a starter fit, run out in the middle of the map and wait for someone to one shot you. Then do it over and over again until the end of the "match", because unless you have a full proto suit, your worthless. Your only there to pad the KDRs of vetteren players, that's the only role you serve in this game if you don't protostomp. That's how it is, and I sadly don't ever see it changing. Your either the cow or the butcher. Sure, but one way for that to change would be the above proposal, do see any problems with it as a solution? GöÇGòñGòªn++ Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting. n++GòªGòñGöÇ
Fibo Gjenn UNIVERSAL BANDAGE 19	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:39:00 - [4] - Quote Run with a BAR and Bolt in tanked Gal Scout Basic and repper. Team up with a Cal Assult and a RR. Find high grund, pref with an object for cover. Kill loners or pairs of red berries, any more, run n' regroup. Makes for reasonably priced fun.
CharacterNameWasTaken 246	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:03:00 - [5] - Quote ivd said there needs to be a solo only mode added because people are more likelt to run cheap stuff while soloing. "Stop it the bouncing is making me uncomfortable" - Senji/Crow
Syeven Reed T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 992	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:05:00 - [6] - Quote Small change. Only proto suits, not proto everything. SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED EvE - 21 Day Trial
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:07:00 - [7] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: Small change. Only proto suits, not proto everything. Not weapons? GöÇGòñGòªn++ Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting. n++GòªGòñGöÇ
loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 174	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:09:00 - [8] - Quote The problem is not the protosuits, it is the squads in pub matches. It should be solo queue only.
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 570	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:13:00 - [9] - Quote There should be a system like there is in FW in EVE. Certain ships are only allowed in certain plexes. Frigates can enter any complex but battleships can only enter large complexes. If something similar could be done with gear i'd be all for it.
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:20:00 - [10] - Quote loumanchew wrote: The problem is not the protosuits, it is the squads in pub matches. It should be solo queue only. That'd be a nice addition, and hopefully we'll see that one day. Given the current, team-oriented pub matches we have today, don't you think that removing proto so that squads can only run at best Advanced suits would be less bad than the current proto stomps we get - which everyone seems to hate? GöÇGòñGòªn++ Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting. n++GòªGòñGöÇ

B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:24:00 - [11] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: There should be a system like there is in FW in EVE. Certain ships are only allowed in certain plexes. Frigates can enter any complex but battleships can only enter large complexes. If something similar could be done with gear i'd be all for it. Well we have meta levels, surely that could be used.. Either a hard restriction, e.g. No items over meta 6 or whatever, or a sum of your fitted suit's meta level.. So you could in theory run a proto suit or weapon or piece of equipment, but just not the absolutely maxed out, full proto fit. GöÇGòñGòªn++ Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting. n++GòªGòñGöÇ
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 5909	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:30:00 - [12] - Quote Whats OP is teamwork. For pubs, restrict a squad to 3. Solved /end thread The best Damage mod is a HEADSHOT....
loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 174	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:31:00 - [13] - Quote B-F M wrote: loumanchew wrote: The problem is not the protosuits, it is the squads in pub matches. It should be solo queue only. That'd be a nice addition, and hopefully we'll see that one day. Given the current, team-oriented pub matches we have today, don't you think that removing proto so that squads can only run at best Advanced suits would be less bad than the current proto stomps we get - which everyone seems to hate? I think it would be like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound. Even if everyone is given the same suits, organized squads will always farm redberries out of any meaningful interest for this game, diminishing player base, and then saying that there is not enough of a player base to add more joining options. P.S. However, I would pay dearly to see a mode where solo joiners use proto suits on militia-only squads. A guy can dream right?
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2093	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:39:00 - [14] - Quote I feel the most aggravating thing to me is those asshats running boundlesses in militia heavies. Unless proto is removed from pubs wholesale, that will still be an issue. I think that more then this must be done however. Squads must be matched in matches with equal numbers of squads. SP should be roughly matched so me and my maxed core skills aren't going to throttle the newbs in my starter fit. The current system should stay in place to also help match bad and bad, good and good players. Because you wanted to be something you're not. A hero. Do you feel like one now?
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:39:00 - [15] - Quote Updated OP to more clearly define problem. GöÇGòñGòªn++ Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting. n++GòªGòñGöÇ
loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 174	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:48:00 - [16] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Whats OP is teamwork. For pubs, restrict a squad to 3. Solved /end thread Hardly solves anything, case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzxJL6UxeXo
Charli Chaplin jr F0RSAKEN EMPIRE. 17	Posted - 2014.11.18 20:21:00 - [17] - Quote Even ADV sqds are deadly if they know how to play. i agree with you that proto sqds are hard to beat but everyting has a counter. if you know that theyre together bring up REs, if they're spread out get a gal scout and put damps and a shotgun on it and you will be alright even if you're solo using ADV or STD it can easily be done. you might not win but its typical. tbh if i'm soloing vs Nyain or 1.U.P and i know theyre gonna bring out Cal assaults i'm gonna get a STD SR and REs on my cal scout and theyre dead. those dudes stick together too much in ambush thats why i get so much RE kills on em when i solo. I think that STD n MLT users shoold play together and ADV shoold play with proto. it might be hard to use an ADV suit n go after proto but if the guy is using a cal scout don't try to take him down with a CR, if he's using a gal assault up close don't go try to kill him w/ a tac AR or a SR. go there with an assault CR. simple as that. ACCEPT YOUR FATE LIKE I ACCEPTED MINE.
Chris Adrell Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2014.11.18 20:24:00 - [18] - Quote loumanchew wrote: The problem is not the protosuits, it is the squads in pub matches. It should be solo queue only. That's an idea. Mix and match squads in their own match ups..or make squads only valid for FW..
Aidualc LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 3	Posted - 2014.11.18 20:25:00 - [19] - Quote IF you need a "proto suit" to win in a public match... you are a bad player, that-¦s all ! loose 2 proto suit = - $400,000 ISK winning reward = 330,000 IKS Profit = -70,000k. "bad bussines". Play Planetary Conquest. Loose 7 proto suit = -1,400,000 ISK winning reward = 3,500,000 ISK Profit = 2,100,000 ISK "nice work" Just numbers.
Chris Adrell Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2014.11.18 20:30:00 - [20] - Quote Aidualc wrote: Play Planetary Conquest. Not everyone is "gewd" or fortunate enough to play, or be able to play, Planetary Conquest(Which I am guessing is what people mean when they say "PC", rather than Public Contracts)..

B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.11.18 20:45:00 - [21] - Quote Charli Chaplin jr wrote: Even ADV sqds are deadly if they know how to play. Absolutely, even basic sqds are - and so they should be, otherwise we're saying "no one should be allowed to be skilled and/or work together". All I'm saying is that restricting proto usage in pubs would bring the situation into a more reasonable state. It wouldn't make pub life easy, just alleviate the problem somewhat. Good players will still be good, good squads will still be good, just without ALSO having maxed out gear on top of all that. GöÇGòñGòªn++ Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting. n++GòªGòñGöÇ
TritusX PH4NT0M5 54	Posted - 2014.11.18 20:57:00 - [22] - Quote Ok, let me combine everything for you. What you guys seem to want is to nerf squads and q-sync. That is OP. Three squads of Nyain San, Fatal Absolution, and Molon Labe Q-Syncing together is a nightmare. They just use proto to show they can. The whole coordination of it allows them to stomp in anything, even militia gear. A reasonable OP squad is two logi, two sentinels, one scout and one assault. Three of these that all work together against one team that has solo players and a squad will be horribly uneven. The OP squads just rep the sentinels and assaults, farm the WP for orbitals, and the kills in CQC and the kills from the assault will be enough. An extra proto scout will just ruin the day. He might run in with a SG and send passives left and right to ultimately destroy the whole other team. If only you could attach RE to yourself and kamikaze a tank
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:06:00 - [23] - Quote TritusX wrote: Ok, let me combine everything for you. What you guys seem to want is to nerf squads and q-sync. That is OP. Three squads of Nyain San, Fatal Absolution, and Molon Labe Q-Syncing together is a nightmare. They just use proto to show they can. The whole coordination of it allows them to stomp in anything, even militia gear. Well yeah, that's the way the thread has gone in spite of the OP haha So do people think that in the proto stomping equation (that is, squads and/or qsynced squads + proto gear) the proto gear has little to no impact and is not worth discussing? Because I disagree with that. Teams and squads win games, but full-proto gear (generally) wins individual confrontations. I'm talking 800ehp assault with proto rifle vs 400ehp assault, basic rifle. Maybe if solo players had better odds in individual confrontation we'd see a reduction in the impact of squads/qsyncing. GöÇGòñGòªn++ Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting. n++GòªGòñGöÇ
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5134	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:33:00 - [24] - Quote Logic failure: Vehicles are balanced to fight proto AV. So proto AV cannot be deployed... Ok enjoy the new flavor of stomp while we practice with ADV AAV. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 727	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:39:00 - [25] - Quote Guns are OP Suits are OP Squads are OP Equipment is OP I have the solution..... Uninstall the game and leave. FFS people, how much of the game do you want to destroy? You're like the mom who gets mad because a better kid made her kid look like a fool on the soccer field and then yells at the coach that the better kid shouldn't be playing. I run blueprint, in pubs, nearly all the time. I kill proto suits... ALL. THE. TIME. This isn't a "get gud" moment. This is a "suck it up and learn" moment. You will die, in a suit that costs 10K. You will kill suits that cost 200+K. Who really wins and loses in that scenario? Your KD/R doesn't matter so put away your **** and measuring tape.
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:41:00 - [26] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Logic failure: Vehicles are balanced to fight proto AV. So proto AV cannot be deployed... Ok enjoy the new flavor of stomp while we practice with ADV AAV. True if all proto is banned, but I was thinking that a limitations on total meta level of your fitting would work (as this would allow some proto, just not full proto). As for the viability of non-proto AV, ADV swarms have been recently buffed to reduce the gap between them and proto and when used in conjunction with other AV they work just fine. But yeah, you're right that it would undo that balancing effort to a degree. But thank you for actually arguing my original point GöÇGòñGòªn++ Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting. n++GòªGòñGöÇ
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 75	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:52:00 - [27] - Quote Meta Level Cap seems to be the most balanced idea. Squads should be encouraged. Either remove proto altogether or put a cap in place to limit the gear. Case in point - these APEX suits with basic gear are hardly qualified to be Protostompers. We all know Academy is a joke. It's brutal enough coming into Pubs going against experienced squads, or even lone wolves, without adding the proto level to it. There should be a natural progression from Academy to Pubs to FW to PC. FW and PC are where the limits are lifted, no holds barred 'big boys club'. Pubs should have some form of limitations to balance the field.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4981	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:55:00 - [28] - Quote Bax Zanith wrote: My signature explains public matches perfectly well. Unless your protostomping, then the only useful thing you really can do is put on a starter fit, run out in the middle of the map and wait for someone to one shot you. Then do it over and over again until the end of the "match", because unless you have a full proto suit, your worthless. Your only there to pad the KDRs of vetteren players, that's the only role you serve in this game if you don't protostomp. That's how it is, and I sadly don't ever see it changing. Your either the cow or the butcher. I rarely ever fit proto and I have no problems stomping all of you. This is going to come as a shock, but it may have more to do with the fact you aren't very good. It's my fault FA exists. Direct your rage to me.
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:57:00 - [29] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Meta Level Cap seems to be the most balanced idea. Squads should be encouraged. Either remove proto altogether or put a cap in place to limit the gear. Case in point - these APEX suits with basic gear are hardly qualified to be Protostompers. Exactly. Logi could still run proto reps; Sniper still running proto rifle, etc.. GöÇGòñGòªn++ Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting. n++GòªGòñGöÇ
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 891	Posted - 2014.11.18 22:02:00 - [30] - Quote Proto isn't the problem, squads are the problem, matchmaking is the problem, blueberries are the problem.



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