DUST Search - [Suggestion] How to increase the quality of gameplay in pubs

KA24DERT wrote:

Kensai Dragon wrote:

You're right about the 'tryhard' squads, or veteran squads, or whatever label we're attaching to them. I think you're confusing those of us who are trying to balance the game with those who are QQing about losing. Many of you can, and do, gank me with MLT gear. The issue is trying to take out a proto-armor-tanked anything while trying to figure out the game. You know why blueberries are hanging out in the redline shooting each other? It's because that's the only time they can line up a shot for more than half a second without getting instablapped. They're still trying to figure this game out, lol.

Pubs should be the next step up from Academy, a step down from FW. Pubs should not be simply FW with ISK.

I'll say it again. Squadding up should be encouraged. Proto in pubs is entirely unnecessary and should be discouraged.

The NPE is solvable by a longer/better battle academy. It's pitifully short currently, making it 5-10 times longer would help greatly.

Blueberries sitting in the redline can be helped by actually rewarding people for their performance in public contracts. Blueberries in FW try their best because the LP payout is MUCH higher when you win. Losing a public contract is still money in the bank, so why try?

If you're upset about getting instablapped, now you're talking about nerfing the rifles and HMG about 30% across the board, or getting rid of aim assist.

Removing Proto from pubs will not really help those issues, and will just result in people complaining about "Advanced Stomping".


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Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 75	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:52:00 - [1] - Quote Meta Level Cap seems to be the most balanced idea. Squads should be encouraged. Either remove proto altogether or put a cap in place to limit the gear. Case in point - these APEX suits with basic gear are hardly qualified to be Protostompers. We all know Academy is a joke. It's brutal enough coming into Pubs going against experienced squads, or even lone wolves, without adding the proto level to it. There should be a natural progression from Academy to Pubs to FW to PC. FW and PC are where the limits are lifted, no holds barred 'big boys club'. Pubs should have some form of limitations to balance the field.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 78	Posted - 2014.11.18 22:44:00 - [2] - Quote You're right about the 'tryhard' squads, or veteran squads, or whatever label we're attaching to them. I think you're confusing those of us who are trying to balance the game with those who are QQing about losing. Many of you can, and do, gank me with MLT gear. The issue is trying to take out a proto-armor-tanked anything while trying to figure out the game. You know why blueberries are hanging out in the redline shooting each other? It's because that's the only time they can line up a shot for more than half a second without getting instablapped. They're still trying to figure this game out, lol. Pubs should be the next step up from Academy, a step down from FW. Pubs should not be simply FW with ISK. I'll say it again. Squadding up should be encouraged. Proto in pubs is entirely unnecessary and should be discouraged.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 78	Posted - 2014.11.18 23:23:00 - [3] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: So me the lonewolf should be punished the same as a squad? How would either you or squads be punished? Please elaborate.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 78	Posted - 2014.11.18 23:44:00 - [4] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: You're right about the 'tryhard' squads, or veteran squads, or whatever label we're attaching to them. I think you're confusing those of us who are trying to balance the game with those who are QQing about losing. Many of you can, and do, gank me with MLT gear. The issue is trying to take out a proto-armor-tanked anything while trying to figure out the game. You know why blueberries are hanging out in the redline shooting each other? It's because that's the only time they can line up a shot for more than half a second without getting instablapped. They're still trying to figure this game out, lol. Pubs should be the next step up from Academy, a step down from FW. Pubs should not be simply FW with ISK. I'll say it again. Squadding up should be encouraged. Proto in pubs is entirely unnecessary and should be discouraged. The NPE is solvable by a longer/better battle academy. It's pitifully short currently, making it 5-10 times longer would help greatly. Blueberries sitting in the redline can be helped by actually rewarding people for their performance in public contracts. Blueberries in FW try their best because the LP payout is MUCH higher when you win. Losing a public contract is still money in the bank, so why try? If you're upset about getting instablapped, now you're talking about nerfing the rifles and HMG about 30% across the board, or getting rid of aim assist. Removing Proto from pubs will not really help those issues, and will just result in people complaining about "Advanced Stomping". Now I'm starting to think you're just trolling for 'lulz', lol Putting a meta cap in place would allow people to see that it's not the gear so much as personal skill and SP placement. There are many who are beasts in MLT gear, there are also many who are only beast due to proto gear. We're saying that there should be progression as you grow. You say Academy should be fixed? Sure, but how to do that? Keep us in Academy until 5mil SP? Now you have the exact same problems but starting out in Academy. After a month or three of playing the same maps you don't think I'd be stomping that guy who started yesterday? Pubs should be the next step. Mu, as imperfect as it is, is applied in pubs and not FW for a reason. The intent is to balance pub matches. I guess I see it as: Academy = Little League Pubs = College FW = Minor League PC = Major League Or something along those lines. Honestly, I'm not seeing why someone would be opposed to a meta level cap. If you're good, you're still good. If you're bad, you can at least have a chance. I'm not advocating an 'easy mode', or asking you to not try hard. Just looking for a progression that makes sense.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 79	Posted - 2014.11.19 01:34:00 - [5] - Quote Just some quick numbers to illustrate what I'm trying to say. These are clearly not the best setups for a suit, just throwing numbers out for example. Standard AR = 453.2 dps vs shield, 370.8 dps vs armor Duvolle AR = 498.5 dps / shield, 407.9 dps vs armor (chosen for no Prof. requirement) Standard brick tanked Gal Med with basic shield and armor = 230.1 shield, 624.3 armor, total 854.3 eHP Proto Gal Assault with 3x Complex Shield, 2x Complex Armor, 3x Enhanced Armor = 411.6 shield, 1003.8 Armor, total 1415.3 eHP Standard vs Proto TTK ~= 3.6 seconds Proto vs Standard TTK ~= 2 seconds *Not only does the newberry have less experience, he also has to shoot you for almost twice as long to get the kill.* If someone kills your protosuit while running MLT/Standard gear, that's really saying something. If you kill a MLT/Standard while running Proto gear, well, congratulations I guess...
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 80	Posted - 2014.11.19 07:08:00 - [6] - Quote SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: Just some quick numbers to illustrate what I'm trying to say. These are clearly not the best setups for a suit, just throwing numbers out for example. Standard AR = 453.2 dps vs shield, 370.8 dps vs armor Duvolle AR = 498.5 dps / shield, 407.9 dps vs armor (chosen for no Prof. requirement) Standard brick tanked Gal Med with basic shield and armor = 230.1 shield, 624.3 armor, total 854.3 eHP Proto Gal Assault with 3x Complex Shield, 2x Complex Armor, 3x Enhanced Armor = 411.6 shield, 1003.8 Armor, total 1415.3 eHP Standard vs Proto TTK ~= 3.6 seconds Proto vs Standard TTK ~= 2 seconds *Not only does the newberry have less experience, he also has to shoot you for almost twice as long to get the kill.* If someone kills your protosuit while running MLT/Standard gear, that's really saying something. If you kill a MLT/Standard while running Proto gear, well, congratulations I guess... that math is assuming every bullet hits Of course it is. It's also assuming no DMG mods and no proficiency or sharpshooter skills, all of which would quite reasonably weigh even more grossly in favor of the proto user. That's why I stated that these are just quick numbers to illustrate the imbalance. A veteran player would most likely have all these skills and be using them even in MLT / STD fits.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 87	Posted - 2014.11.19 18:32:00 - [7] - Quote To account for varying EQ / Module slots, meta should be adjusted to suit class. Scouts and heavies would otherwise be at opposite sides of the advantage table. If / when I get a few moments free I'll see about throwing some numbers on a spreadsheet.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 88	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:14:00 - [8] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Proto has little to do with the stomping......it is the talent + squads - stupid bluedots. You can use a $20K heavy suit and wreck all proto gear in any class. You can use a beefed up adv suit in any class and compete with proto suits. It isn't god mode (maybe in closed beta but not now). Great! Then there should be little to no complaints about limiting the higher tiered gear used in pubs.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 91	Posted - 2014.11.20 02:38:00 - [9] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Proto has little to do with the stomping......it is the talent + squads - stupid bluedots. You can use a $20K heavy suit and wreck all proto gear in any class. You can use a beefed up adv suit in any class and compete with proto suits. It isn't god mode (maybe in closed beta but not now). Great! Then there should be little to no complaints about limiting the higher tiered gear used in pubs. A useless request that doesn't address the issues players are experiencing only muddles the conversation regarding what is actually happening in pub matches. That's enough grounds to terminate this terrible idea. Following this logic, It'll be "proto stomping" this month, and "advanced stomping" next month, then "standard stomping", while never addressing the actual issues. People are bad at this game, and matchmaking should put them up against people within their skill range(most of the time) regardless of what suit they have. Wrong. Keeping people within a given skill range is nullified by me having vastly superior equipment. Even more so if I start out with superior skill, both SP and 'gun-game'. Squads should always be encouraged, for the simple reason of strength in numbers. I understand that it can be difficult to find a decent group to squad up with and some people are determined to run solo, but it should definitely be encouraged. Particularly for newer members. Squad OP is part of the original intent of this game. The 'actual issue' here is that post-academy there really is no place to go to continue growing with this game other than being 'the cow'.