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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
305
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Posted - 2014.11.17 14:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
The CR is the only weapon without a balance mechanic I was wondering if any of you have any ideas.
I have one of my own that I think would be pretty easy and increase the skill cap on the rifle it is making it manual reload.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
274
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Posted - 2014.11.17 14:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
It does require manual reload some times, very frustrating.
Trying to remember to always reload... Always reload.... Shot 5 bullets, always reload....
With such a small clip size you have to ALWAYS RELOAD.
The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4864
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Posted - 2014.11.17 14:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:The CR is the only weapon without a balance mechanic I was wondering if any of you have any ideas. Increase the time between "bursts" of rounds. Remove the scope.
My advice to you, playa...
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
305
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Posted - 2014.11.17 15:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:It does require manual reload some times, very frustrating.
Trying to remember to always reload... Always reload.... Shot 5 bullets, always reload....
With such a small clip size you have to ALWAYS RELOAD.
Yea I do the same thing, but when your in combat is when it becomes a balancing factor during those moments of excitement.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
2608
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Posted - 2014.11.17 15:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:It does require manual reload some times, very frustrating.
Trying to remember to always reload... Always reload.... Shot 5 bullets, always reload....
With such a small clip size you have to ALWAYS RELOAD.
This is pretty close to falling into Poe's Law, to be honest. 
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
275
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Posted - 2014.11.17 15:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Blueprint For Murder wrote:The CR is the only weapon without a balance mechanic I was wondering if any of you have any ideas. Increase the time between "bursts" of rounds. Remove the scope.
Don't you dare remove my scope!!!!!!
BOY, I will... Well I will do something 
That's why I always spec CR
It's suppose to be tactical.
The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7944
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Posted - 2014.11.17 15:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:It does require manual reload some times, very frustrating.
Trying to remember to always reload... Always reload.... Shot 5 bullets, always reload....
With such a small clip size you have to ALWAYS RELOAD.
And this is why the CR on the Min Assault is amazing
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7944
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Posted - 2014.11.17 15:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Blueprint For Murder wrote:The CR is the only weapon without a balance mechanic I was wondering if any of you have any ideas. Increase the time between "bursts" of rounds. Remove the scope. Don't you dare remove my scope!!!!!! BOY, I will... Well I will do something That's why I always spec CR It's suppose to be tactical.
Thing is decent in CQC, but it really shines at around 50m.
Full damage application, AR's have a harder time and ScR and RR are too close to reliably hit you if you strafe well.
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
13769
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Posted - 2014.11.17 15:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
-Weak Against Shields
-Low TTE means shorter engagement times
Not sure who said it, but whoever thinks the Scope needs to be removed should be slapped with a trout.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4866
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Posted - 2014.11.17 15:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:BOY, I will... Well I will do something That's why I always spec CR It's suppose to be tactical. Then we need a 'Tactical' variant of the CR 
It's too good at too many things right now. Respectable damage and range, non-existent recoil, good clip size, low fitting requirements, projectile damage profile (15% armor damage is incredibly handy when the metagame is strongly leaning armor).
My advice to you, playa...
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Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
275
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Posted - 2014.11.17 15:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Bright Steel wrote:BOY, I will... Well I will do something That's why I always spec CR It's suppose to be tactical. Then we need a 'Tactical' variant of the CR It's too good at too many things right now. Respectable damage and range, non-existent recoil, good clip size, low fitting requirements, projectile damage profile (15% armor damage is incredibly handy when the metagame is strongly leaning armor).
Clip size??? Compared to what?
You can only engage one and a half enemies per clip!!!
That's why the CR philosophy of ALWAYS RELOAD is so important.
And a side arm is a must.
The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
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Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
275
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 16:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
I do believe it could is a rate of fire decrease.
Who can hit the trigger 6.67 times per second with out a turbo controller???
That's the problem, turbo controllers
The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4867
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Posted - 2014.11.17 16:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:Clip size??? Compared to what?
You can only engage one and a half enemies per clip!!!
That's why the CR philosophy of ALWAYS RELOAD is so important.
And a side arm is a must.
CR clip size (non-assault): 54
AR clip size: 60
6 round difference and the AR is a full-auto weapon.
CR clip size (Minmatar assault V): 67
...then there is this So when fitted to the light weapon specialist dropsuit you can fire even longer between reloads. When you do finally have to reload...
Reload speeds
RR: 3.2s
AR: 3.0s
CR: 2.6s
ScR: 2.5s
The CR has the second fastest reload speed too. The ScR beats it by 0.1s, but it also has an overheat mechanic that can actually kill you and seizes up your weapon.
The CR has the lowest fitting requirements of all frontline rifles to boot.
Basically, I have no idea why anyone would use anything besides a CR on a Minmatar assault/commando, any logi, any scout unless you are roleplaying your character. The gun is good at everything except long range engagements; the RR trumps it there, but suffers a pitiful CQC penalty for it.
My advice to you, playa...
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
305
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Posted - 2014.11.17 16:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bright that is a pretty big factor among a few rifles. Lets try to stay away from direct nerfs the devs will handle that lets just stick to unique things that make it a little more fun and a little harder to play.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Ryme Intrinseca
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
2014
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Posted - 2014.11.17 16:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Basically, I have no idea why anyone would use anything besides a CR on a Minmatar assault/commando, any logi, any scout unless you are roleplaying your character.
Because breach AR. |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4867
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Posted - 2014.11.17 16:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Because breach AR. The BAR is a weird, thuggish version of the AR that I believe needs a tweak too. It doesn't need a weakness, like the CR, it needs to have it's range examined.
My advice to you, playa...
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
305
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Posted - 2014.11.17 16:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Stay on topic please.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
275
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Posted - 2014.11.17 16:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Bright Steel wrote:Clip size??? Compared to what?
You can only engage one and a half enemies per clip!!!
That's why the CR philosophy of ALWAYS RELOAD is so important.
And a side arm is a must. CR clip size (non-assault): 54 AR clip size: 60 6 round difference and the AR is a full-auto weapon. CR clip size (Minmatar assault V): 67 ...then there is this So when fitted to the light weapon specialist dropsuit you can fire even longer between reloads. When you do finally have to reload... Reload speeds RR: 3.2s AR: 3.0s CR: 2.6s ScR: 2.5s The CR has the second fastest reload speed too. The ScR beats it by 0.1s, but it also has an overheat mechanic that can actually kill you and seizes up your weapon. The CR has the lowest fitting requirements of all frontline rifles to boot. Basically, I have no idea why anyone would use anything besides a CR on a Minmatar assault/commando, any logi, any scout unless you are roleplaying your character. The gun is good at everything except long range engagements; the RR trumps it there, but suffers a pitiful CQC penalty for it.
We got to look at damage per clip and not clip size.
Repeatedly it has been commented on that the small clip size/damage per clip is the short coming of the CR.
That's why they have a fast reload because they figure your going to ALWAYS RELOAD.
The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
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Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
275
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Posted - 2014.11.17 16:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:Bright that is a pretty big factor among a few rifles. Lets try to stay away from direct nerfs the devs will handle that lets just stick to unique things that make it a little more fun and a little harder to play.
I see what your getting at and I believe:
Hip fire min disperse and kick increase, but I say again HIP FIRE only
The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
305
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Posted - 2014.11.17 16:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
How about a actual jamming mechanic (not like the ion bug) but a rng reload roll it is a projectile weapon and this happens time to time with open bolt systems.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
276
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Posted - 2014.11.17 16:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:How about a actual jamming mechanic (not like the ion bug) a rng roll for reload it is a projectile weapon and this happens quite often with open bolt systems.
Only if you fired too quickly, like more than 2 burst a second.
Otherwise i would be pissed if I randomly died when it jammed, cause that's what would happen.
If that did happen I would expect the others to experience random malfunctions...
The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
305
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Posted - 2014.11.17 16:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
I like that, leaving it up to the player to screw themselves it would also likely put an end to turbo you sneaky bugger :D.
Not to get off topic, but I wish they would have done something like that with the cloak delay. Like a damage debuff instead of just not being able to fire that way scouts would have a chance to expose themselves.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
276
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Posted - 2014.11.17 16:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:I like that, leaving it up to the player to screw themselves it would also likely put an end to turbo you sneaky bugger :D.
Not to get off topic, but I wish they would have done something like that with the cloak delay. Like a damage debuff instead of just not being able to fire that way scouts would have a chance to expose themselves.
+5 ^
The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
1133
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 17:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
As a armor bricked Amarr Assault...
The CR isn't as bad as you guys are making it out to be.
The only issue I see with it is its fitting costs. Its easier to fit a CR than it is to fit an SMG. That just seems odd to me. I would imagine it would at least use more than the SMG.
Its other stats seem fine to me.
Please, make my Opus pretty...
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1928
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 17:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:The CR is the only weapon without a balance mechanic I was wondering if any of you have any ideas.
I have one of my own that I think would be pretty easy and increase the skill cap on the rifle it is making it manual reload.
Ops I meant to put this in features my bad.
CR is balanced just use shield suits against it and laugh at the -15% dmg to shields.. noob
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All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1928
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 17:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:As a armor bricked Amarr Assault...
The CR isn't as bad as you guys are making it out to be.
The only issue I see with it is its fitting costs. Its easier to fit a CR than it is to fit an SMG. That just seems odd to me. I would imagine it would at least use more than the SMG.
Its other stats seem fine to me.
its not easier to fit then an smg, however its slightly more then normal or breach but abotu equal to assault smg.. this probably played into the hands of the scout+CR domination pre-damage profile nerf
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
278
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 17:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:As a armor bricked Amarr Assault...
The CR isn't as bad as you guys are making it out to be.
The only issue I see with it is its fitting costs. Its easier to fit a CR than it is to fit an SMG. That just seems odd to me. I would imagine it would at least use more than the SMG.
Its other stats seem fine to me.
QUITE YOU!!! Our its fine!!!
It's meant to complement the matari's low PG/CPU on heir suites but it is unbalanced on other suites
The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
1133
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 17:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:I do believe it could is a rate of fire decrease.
Who can hit the trigger 6.67 times per second with out a turbo controller???
That's the problem, turbo controllers
I can easily do that. I wouldn't even need to try. That's only 400 RoF. I could fire at 400 while drugged...
Actually, if you can't do that, you need to get your hands checked. You might have a medical issue.
On the few occasions that I actually use the CR, I have to throttle myself pretty damn hard not to oversample it.
Since the ScR gots its RoF Nerf, I've oversampled that 2 times. I remember because it was jarring. That's 600 RoF.
400 is child's play.
Please, make my Opus pretty...
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
1134
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Posted - 2014.11.17 17:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:How about a actual jamming mechanic (not like the ion bug) a rng roll for reload it is a projectile weapon and this happens quite often with open bolt systems.
RNG mechanics are bad. No. The only randomness in a competitve shooter should be dispersion.
Please, make my Opus pretty...
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John ShepardIII
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1073
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 17:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
CR doesn't need a change
It's only really good with the Min assault (which the same goes for the SR and the Amarr assault)
The True Shepard
Lvl 1 Forum Warrior
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4612
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 17:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Blueprint For Murder wrote:The CR is the only weapon without a balance mechanic I was wondering if any of you have any ideas. Increase the time between "bursts" of rounds. Remove the scope.
WTF!
LMAO Nooooooooo please go home Ripley, you're drunk.
CR is very much fine.
It's scope actually IS PART of it's balancing mechanic...it's worse off in those ranges where the ACR can ADS...you try ADS'ing in just outside CQC ranges and your FoV is fugged up.
This is WHY people already prefer the ACR to the CR....
This bullshit needs to chillax.
The RoF is perfect because it has a very good 'rhythm' to it.
How about you tell me what buff it should receive if you're going to give it "a balancing mechanic"
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4612
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Posted - 2014.11.17 17:45:00 -
[32] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Bright Steel wrote:I do believe it could is a rate of fire decrease.
Who can hit the trigger 6.67 times per second with out a turbo controller???
That's the problem, turbo controllers I can easily do that. I wouldn't even need to try. That's only 400 RoF. I could fire at 400 while drugged... Actually, if you can't do that, you need to get your hands checked. You might have a medical issue. On the few occasions that I actually use the CR, I have to throttle myself pretty damn hard not to oversample it. Since the ScR gots its RoF Nerf, I've oversampled that 2 times. I remember because it was jarring. That's 600 RoF. 400 is child's play.
Ya damn right...actually it's VERY easy to 'oversample' the CR and lose out on DPS because it's so easy to press too quickly.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4871
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 17:50:00 -
[33] - Quote
N/a
Buffing a weapon that is already overperforming is silly
My advice to you, playa...
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John ShepardIII
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1073
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Posted - 2014.11.17 17:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:N/a Buffing a weapon that is already overperforming is silly
-_- your useless
The True Shepard
Lvl 1 Forum Warrior
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4871
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Posted - 2014.11.17 17:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
John ShepardIII wrote:-_- you're useless Take that back, I spot your vs. you're errors very well, thank you very much.
My advice to you, playa...
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4614
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Posted - 2014.11.17 18:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Where is it 'overperforming'?
Can you give me recent data that demonstrates that?
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4873
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 18:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Where is it 'overperforming'?
Can you give me recent data that demonstrates that? The top weapons in my killfeed are the HMG and CR, in that order. Ask Rattati for a wider sample size. Prove me wrong 
My advice to you, playa...
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
13774
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Posted - 2014.11.17 18:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Where is it 'overperforming'?
Can you give me recent data that demonstrates that? The top weapons in my killfeed are the HMG and CR, in that order. Ask Rattati for a wider sample size and then post it somewhere for review. Prove my hypothesis wrong
Quantity does not equate to quality.
Not only that, but of course you'd have weapons with heavy Anti-Armor bias (+15%) be used more than others in an environment where more players use Armor than Shield.
There's no need to prove you wrong when the point you're trying to prove is flawed.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4875
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Posted - 2014.11.17 18:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Quantity does not equate to quality.
Not only that, but of course you'd have weapons with heavy Anti-Armor bias (+15%) be used more than others in an environment where more players use Armor than Shield.
There's no need to prove you wrong when the point you're trying to prove is flawed. Over usage can tip us off to overperformance. I should amend my statement with "CR users in my killfeed are getting kills, but rarely getting killed themselves". Maybe that will crystallize my point.
I don't understand your position... you are against us being shown data on the CR? Are you concerned that it will be balanced appropriately?
If I'm wrong then the data will still be nice to see. If I'm right, then a weapon that needs balancing will be fixed.
My advice to you, playa...
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Dreis Shadowweaver
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
643
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 18:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Bright Steel wrote:I do believe it could is a rate of fire decrease.
Who can hit the trigger 6.67 times per second with out a turbo controller???
That's the problem, turbo controllers I can easily do that. I wouldn't even need to try. That's only 400 RoF. I could fire at 400 while drugged... Actually, if you can't do that, you need to get your hands checked. You might have a medical issue. On the few occasions that I actually use the CR, I have to throttle myself pretty damn hard not to oversample it. Since the ScR gots its RoF Nerf, I've oversampled that 2 times. I remember because it was jarring. That's 600 RoF. 400 is child's play.
Yeah, 400's not that hard if you were talking about something like the SCR, but remember that with the CR you also have a 0.06 second pause between each burst. 
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
Dreis - pronounced like 'maize'
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4616
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Posted - 2014.11.17 18:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Where is it 'overperforming'?
Can you give me recent data that demonstrates that? The top weapons in my killfeed are the HMG and CR, in that order. Ask Rattati for a wider sample size and then post it somewhere for review. Prove my hypothesis wrong
Ahhh, yeah anecdotal assertions of "this is what i see so it's OP"
I thought we learned about this back when Buster Friendly tried doing this....
Welp, this thread can officially be trashed.
Logical: "We should get data to see if the CR is overperforming"
Illogical: "Until we see data proving the CR is -not- overperforming...we need to nerf it"
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4883
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Posted - 2014.11.17 18:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Ahhh, yeah anecdotal assertions of "this is what i see so it's OP" I thought we learned about this back when Buster Friendly tried doing this.... Welp, this thread can officially be trashed. Logical: "We should get data to see if the CR is overperforming" Illogical: "Until we see data proving the CR is -not- overperforming...we need to nerf it"
You are fighting my anecdotal evidence with your own anecdotal evidence Let's recap, I'm open to data being shown to invalidate my theory. You are not.
I wonder why... so how many CR skills are you capped out in, Zatara?
I will reiterate: I could be wrong. Can you poke Rattati for a simple question, "Is the CR in the top 7 highest performing weapons in pubs?" or something like that?
My advice to you, playa...
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Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
299
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Posted - 2014.11.17 18:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:Bright Steel wrote:I do believe it could is a rate of fire decrease.
Who can hit the trigger 6.67 times per second with out a turbo controller???
That's the problem, turbo controllers I can easily do that. I wouldn't even need to try. That's only 400 RoF. I could fire at 400 while drugged... Actually, if you can't do that, you need to get your hands checked. You might have a medical issue. On the few occasions that I actually use the CR, I have to throttle myself pretty damn hard not to oversample it. Since the ScR gots its RoF Nerf, I've oversampled that 2 times. I remember because it was jarring. That's 600 RoF. 400 is child's play. Yeah, 400's not that hard if you were talking about something like the SCR, but remember that with the CR you also have a 0.06 second pause between each burst.
I would like to see actual user applied damage per sec with combat rifle and not
Just potential
The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1929
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Posted - 2014.11.17 18:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Blueprint For Murder wrote:The CR is the only weapon without a balance mechanic I was wondering if any of you have any ideas. Increase the time between "bursts" of rounds. Remove the scope.
you mean lower the ROF.. i would say no to scope removal as CR is the precision rifle where as the ACR is the BRRRRRAP! u dead MF.. gun of choice for most people who spray and pray.
HOWEVER!
when lag is present and you try to fire too fast the rythem gets messed the hell up and you end up bursting twice missing one and bursting once then missing and bursting twice..
iv been useing CR since day one of joining dust and the burst rifles perform poorly when on lag ridden matches/maps/enviroments (stormy for some reason)
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4883
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:you mean lower the ROF.. i would say no to scope removal as CR is the precision rifle where as the ACR is the BRRRRRAP! u dead MF.. gun of choice for most people who spray and pray. Fair enough. I was't going to say that the scope needs to be removed AND the RoF dropped. Either or is fine.
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:HOWEVER!
when lag is present and you try to fire too fast the rhythm gets messed the hell up and you end up bursting twice missing one and bursting once then missing and bursting twice..
I've been using CR since day one of joining dust and the burst rifles perform poorly when on lag ridden matches/maps/environments (stormy for some reason) That is unfortunate. I have used the burst AR in the past and I believe I know what you are talking about here.
My advice to you, playa...
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1932
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Where is it 'overperforming'?
Can you give me recent data that demonstrates that? The top weapons in my killfeed are the HMG and CR, in that order. Ask Rattati for a wider sample size and then post it somewhere for review. Prove my hypothesis wrong Ahhh, yeah anecdotal assertions of "this is what i see so it's OP" I thought we learned about this back when Buster Friendly tried doing this.... Welp, this thread can officially be trashed. Logical: "We should get data to see if the CR is overperforming" Illogical: "Until we see data proving the CR is -not- overperforming...we need to nerf it"
CR is somewhat balanced as it blows vs cal assaults and cal/gal heavies with large shield buffers..
the "overperformace" which the whiners are reffering to is the 30% armor damage (at Prof 5) but that is a given cause of the frequancy of people bricking armor of course people will use a CR more.. best used just after you flux the target for maximum prolapsed anus.
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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Ryme Intrinseca
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
2018
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:Stay on topic please.
On topic, did you mean an active reload mechanic like in Gears of War? If so, I think that's a bad idea. You're basically just introducing dozens of quick time events to every game played with a CR, which would be enough to make anyone give up on the weapon. Quick time events are the opposite of fun, innovative, emergent gameplay. They are for games that have more cutscene than game. Keep it out of my online FPS thanks. |
Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1932
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:you mean lower the ROF.. i would say no to scope removal as CR is the precision rifle where as the ACR is the BRRRRRAP! u dead MF.. gun of choice for most people who spray and pray. Fair enough. I was't going to say that the scope needs to be removed AND the RoF dropped. Either or is fine. Apothecary Za'ki wrote:HOWEVER!
when lag is present and you try to fire too fast the rhythm gets messed the hell up and you end up bursting twice missing one and bursting once then missing and bursting twice..
I've been using CR since day one of joining dust and the burst rifles perform poorly when on lag ridden matches/maps/environments (stormy for some reason) That is unfortunate. I have used the burst AR in the past and I believe I know what you are talking about here.
burst AR feels much different then the CR as burst AR fires bursts of 4 bullets and isnt really great at hipfire its more a stand still and fire type gun where CR is a little more forgiving
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All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
13774
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Atiim wrote:Quantity does not equate to quality.
Not only that, but of course you'd have weapons with heavy Anti-Armor bias (+15%) be used more than others in an environment where more players use Armor than Shield.
There's no need to prove you wrong when the point you're trying to prove is flawed. Over usage can tip us off to overperformance. I should amend my statement with "CR users in my killfeed are getting kills, but rarely getting killed themselves". Maybe that will crystallize my point. I don't understand your position... you are against us being shown data on the CR? Are you concerned that it will be balanced appropriately? If I'm wrong then the data will still be nice to see. If I'm right, then a weapon that needs balancing will be fixed.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4616
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:08:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Ahhh, yeah anecdotal assertions of "this is what i see so it's OP" I thought we learned about this back when Buster Friendly tried doing this.... Welp, this thread can officially be trashed. Logical: "We should get data to see if the CR is overperforming" Illogical: "Until we see data proving the CR is -not- overperforming...we need to nerf it" You are fighting my anecdotal evidence with your own anecdotal evidence Let's recap, I'm open to data being shown to invalidate my theory. You are not. I wonder why... so how many CR skills are you capped out in, Zatara? I will reiterate: I could be wrong. Can you poke Rattati for a simple question, "Is the CR in the top 7 highest performing weapons in pubs?" or something like that?
See that's the funny thing...I respecced out of CR's...I don't have a dog in the fight here.
Where did I give anecdotal evidence that opposed yours?
I simply disregarded yours, lol.
I'm quite open to data being shown...where did I say I wasn't. This whole path I get down with forum users where inevitably they try to assert **** like this gets so old. Seriously.
Anybody who can read this and has a brain is going to see this and laugh.
Anyways...just because a weapon is being used in pubs more often doesn't even mean it's OP.
You need to get that through your skull.
It could mean any number of things...for instance it may just be that it's simply MUCH more 'fun' to use/'feels' good to use. That's a problem of the other rifles needing to be evaluated.
The litmus test for if something is OP is seeing it's abuse in PC.
And last data that we got...it isn't.
Not even on the top 10.
What significant buffs has it received for you to assert those numbers should have spiked?
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4883
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:This whole path I get down with forum users where inevitably they try to assert **** like this gets so old. Seriously. I guess I haven't said it enough... I'm willing be wrong, I just don't believe I am. I would love some data to prove one way or the other.
Zatara Rought wrote:What significant buffs has it received for you to assert those numbers should have spiked? I never said it received buffs. It didn't need them, it's been powerful from the get-go. The +5% bonus to armor helped it along though.
My advice to you, playa...
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1932
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:16:00 -
[52] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Needs to be revised, for some reason the post didn't go through properly.
i think it dosnt need to be revised, it sucks against shields, excells against armor.. it has a 3 bullet burst which is equal to a single shot of a SCR which is the polar opposite of the CR in terms of damage profile..
simple rebuttle could be.. you hate CR? RUN SHIELD SUITS!
you hate SCR? RUN ARMOR SUITS!
its rock paper scissors...
Cr < shield < SCR < armor < CR
and nerfing the CR would mean nerfing the only truly viable weapon system againt bricked armor suits as we all know RR sucks in CQB where as the CR is a CQB weapon.
its like this...
(Skirmish)RR good vs armor, mid-long range, sucks at short.
(CQB)CR good vs armor, short-mid range. sucks at long.
now the opposing weapons..
(skirmish) SCR good vs shields, mid-long range, so-so at short.
(CQB) AR good vs shields, short-mid range, sucks at long.
now lets also look at this.. a SCR is like 60-70 dmg a shot.. CR is like 20dmg a shot but shoots 3 bullets per burst so thats like 60 to 63 dmg per shot..
HOWEVER!
any one who uses burst weapons knows that it starts to underperform when lag is present as you start to miss fireing any shots so the fire rythem gets out of sync so you can shoot a couple times then expect another clean shot but it dosnt even arrive..
you do not get this problem with semi auto or full auto weapons in dust.
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4619
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:24:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:This whole path I get down with forum users where inevitably they try to assert **** like this gets so old. Seriously. I guess I haven't said it enough... I'm willing be wrong, I just don't believe I am. I would love some data to prove one way or the other. Zatara Rought wrote:What significant buffs has it received for you to assert those numbers should have spiked? I never said it received buffs. It didn't need them, it's been powerful from the get-go. The +5% bonus to armor helped it along though.
Hey!!! We're getting somewhere!
So no discussions of nerfs unless numbers support anecdotal evidence!
As for the 2nd quote...I got the wording wrong there, and changed it...not before you got to it though, apologies for the confusion. 
I could be quite wrong as well, and I'd almost preferred if CCP got into a habit of bi weekly or monthly posts to the community that put data like this transparently, and then had open discussions about interpreting the numbers.
But yeah...nerfing **** without numbers to back it up...no no no.
And the latest numbers? Nope CR is not OP.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1932
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
how about a damage profile change for the CQB weapons?
id propose
ar short range
AR going from +10(25% @ prof 5) shield and -10 armor to 10% shield and -10(+5% @ prof 5) armor
this would make the AR the CQBeast it is ment to be!
CR short-mid
and the CR go from -15% shields and +15% armor (+30% @ prof 5) to -15% shields(0% @ prof 5) and +15% armor
these changes are to not make the weapons excell at what they are good at but help nullify that which they are NOT good at, meaning heavy SP investment pays off.
i would also like the burst AR tweeked to feel/act more like the CR, 3 bullets instead of 4 bullets per burst and adjust damage per shot accortingly with ROF too.
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1932
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Over usage can tip us off to overperformance. I should amend my statement with "CR users in my killfeed are getting kills, but rarely getting killed themselves". Maybe that will crystallize my point. At the same time, overuse can point out underuse among other weapons which are meant to compete with it. An easy example would be with how SMGs and SCPs were overused in comparison to the other sidearms before the Sidearm Rebalance, dispite being relatively balanced as weapons. As for what's in your killfeed, it's antedotal and too situational to be taken seriously. Mainly because there are many different factors which can cause such things to happen, such as:
- How skilled the players are.
- How skilled the players' opponents are.
- What builds the players are using.
- What builds the players' opponents are using.
- What area/maps the players are on.
- etc, etc.
Ripley Riley wrote:I don't understand your position... you are against us being shown data on the CR? Are you concerned that it will be balanced appropriately?
If I'm wrong then the data will still be nice to see. If I'm right, then a weapon that needs balancing will be fixed. Now your just being silly. Not one time in my post did I claim to have any opposition against data for the CR being shown to the general playerbase. Given how I don't work for CCP (nor am I a CPM) my theoretical opposition wouldn't hold any weight anyways.
we need to take into account CR has the lowest fitting of all the ARs and best damage vs armor bricks.. this coupled with flux nades makes for a great weapon.. but when you run out of flux nades you really feel its penality vs shields.. due to its low fitting its a favourite of most logi and most scouts.. since logi is nearly dead its the scouts fault for the CR to look like its over performing due to numerous RR nerfs to make it less viable as a cqb weapon where as the CR is still good at cqb
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
310
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
This is all off topic sadly, but I will add that it was buffed because while at max shields and armor it is a net nerf, but considering the viability of shield stacking the profile change was a buff.
Now please whether you think it needs a nerf or buff is off topic just consider it the brainstorming exercise that it is.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
310
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
This is all off topic sadly, but I will add that it was buffed because while at max shields and armor it is a net nerf, but considering the viability of shield stacking the profile change was a buff.
Now please whether you think it needs a nerf or buff is off topic just consider it the brainstorming exercise that it is.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4885
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:33:00 -
[58] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:So no discussions of nerfs unless numbers support anecdotal evidence!
Zatara Rought wrote:But yeah...nerfing **** without numbers to back it up...no no no.
Homie, I offered up ways to balance the CR (remove the scope, increase time between bursts). If Rattati followed up my post with, "CR is dragging behind the other rifles in Kills Per Death and Kills per Second" you and I both know I wouldn't have pushed for anything resembling a nerf. We'd be talking about ways to make the CR perform better right now.
Data trumps my opinions on a weapon. All day, e'rry day.
So don't act like I'm pushing an agenda.
Zatara Rought wrote:I could be quite wrong as well, and I'd almost preferred if CCP got into a habit of bi weekly or monthly posts to the community that put data like this transparently, and then had open discussions about interpreting the numbers. This would be awesome. More than awesome; this would be a powerful tool for the community to self-monitor for the abuse of a weapon or dropsuit. If a certain fitting starts ripping whole teams to shreds then we could cite the 'monthly data' as proof and lend some credence to our arguments.
As it stands now, we just sword fight with our e-dicks in General Discussion
My advice to you, playa...
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Unholy HateGore
highland marines
IMMORTAL REGIME
11
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:35:00 -
[59] - Quote
**** I would worry more about the Breach AR more than anything. Lately that's what most people are wrecking with. I like my CR and don't want to see it get nerfed. We have enough of that going on right now. |
Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
310
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:39:00 -
[60] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:This is all off topic sadly, but I will add that it was buffed because while at max shields and armor it is a net nerf, but considering the viability of shield stacking the profile change was a buff.
Now please whether you think it needs a nerf or buff is off topic just consider it the brainstorming exercise that it is.
This^
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
310
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:39:00 -
[61] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:This is all off topic sadly, but I will add that it was buffed because while at max shields and armor it is a net nerf, but considering the viability of shield stacking the profile change was a buff.
Now please whether you think it needs a nerf or buff is off topic just consider it the brainstorming exercise that it is.
This^
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4865
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:The CR is the only weapon without a balance mechanic I was wondering if any of you have any ideas.
I have one of my own that I think would be pretty easy and increase the skill cap on the rifle it is making it manual reload.
Ops I meant to put this in features my bad.
I canGÇÖt use the CR because I canGÇÖt pull the trigger fast enough to make it effective (old fingers  ) but I do use the Assault Combat Rifle on a Minmatar Assault suit.
I already find that my ACR does not automatically go into a reload cycle when the magazine empties. I am not sure if this is because of the Min Assault Suit clip size bonus or what? It means I have to watch the rounds in the magazine a lot more closely to know when to switch to a sidearm, otherwise the gun will stop firing and it will take me a second to realize. (I think it does start reloading automatically eventually, but there is a really long delay.)
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4623
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:45:00 -
[63] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:So no discussions of nerfs unless numbers support anecdotal evidence! Zatara Rought wrote:But yeah...nerfing **** without numbers to back it up...no no no. Homie, I offered up ways to balance the CR (remove the scope, increase time between bursts). If Rattati followed up my post with, "CR is dragging behind the other rifles in Kills Per Death and Kills per Second" you and I both know I wouldn't have pushed for anything resembling a nerf. We'd be talking about ways to make the CR perform better right now. Data trumps my opinions on a weapon. All day, e'rry day. So don't act like I'm pushing an agenda.
The issue...is that until you have numbers to support that it is -un-balanced...asserting that you are going -to- balance by [insert nerf here] is lol.
I appreciate you saying that data trumps your opinions...it's just very confusing to have you say that...and yet before -without numbers- say "Yeah we need to nerf because it's overperforming"
See the issue?
Don't assert it's overperforming..ask if it is unless you have numbers.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
311
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:28:00 -
[64] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Blueprint For Murder wrote:The CR is the only weapon without a balance mechanic I was wondering if any of you have any ideas.
I have one of my own that I think would be pretty easy and increase the skill cap on the rifle it is making it manual reload.
Ops I meant to put this in features my bad. I canGÇÖt use the CR because I canGÇÖt pull the trigger fast enough to make it effective (old fingers ) but I do use the Assault Combat Rifle on a Minmatar Assault suit. I already find that my ACR does not automatically go into a reload cycle when the magazine empties. I am not sure if this is because of the Min Assault Suit clip size bonus or what? It means I have to watch the rounds in the magazine a lot more closely to know when to switch to a sidearm, otherwise the gun will stop firing and it will take me a second to realize. (I think it does start reloading automatically eventually, but there is a really long delay.)
Really?, I don't remember ACR having manual reload but the standard doesn't for sure.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Kalante Schiffer
Ancient Exiles.
820
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
The CR is barely used in PC.
PC slayer of gods.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4628
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 21:46:00 -
[66] - Quote
Kalante Schiffer wrote:The CR is barely used in PC.
^^^^
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
313
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
What is your point? I have already stated 3 times this is just a brainstorming exercise I understand we don't all work with the same tools in our bag, but do your best Zatara. :D
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4889
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:53:00 -
[68] - Quote
Kalante Schiffer wrote:The CR is barely used in PC. And as we all know, PC is the sole game mode you can play in Dust 514. All other modes are just tutorials for PC.
My advice to you, playa...
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Cavani1EE7
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
511
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:53:00 -
[69] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Kalante Schiffer wrote:The CR is barely used in PC. ^^^^
Of course it is, but it's for sure the most used rifle in PC as well, along with the Breach AR probably.
Take a bow
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