DUST Search - To Rattati: the shotgun tested with proposal. SCIENCE INSIDE!!

Vitantur Nothus wrote:

Kensai Dragon wrote:

Vitantur Nothus wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

And yes, the shotgun can deliver 1000 damage in a second. Its not hard to understand, unless your trying to obfusticate the issue. If you can fire faster than 60 RPM, which is one shot a second, then you are firing more than one shot in a second. There is no arguing over this. The math proves it, the gameplay proves it.

I don't think anyone here is trying to obfuscate the issue. Let's approach this differently for the sake of clarity:

At 85.71 RPM
0 sec - 1st blast
1.4 sec - 2nd blast ( = 2 / (85.71 / 60)
2.1 sec - 3rd blast ( = 3 / (85.71 / 60)
2.8 sec - 4th blast ( = 4 / (85.71 / 60)

Applied
If a given Sentinel requires 4 shotgun blasts to kill, the fastest a shotgunner can kill that Sentinel is 2.8 seconds.

Interesting observation:

By my math, four shotgun blasts are required to kill a max-HP AM Sentinel, whether the Shotgunner is wielding a STD, ADV or PRO shotgun.

* Assumes max proficiency and 100% of pellets on target (i.e. distance 0-1 meters).

Opposite from your math

60 second per minute
85.71 shot per minute 60/85.71=0.7 seconds per shot
0=1st shot
0.7=2nd shot
1.4=3rd shot
2.1=4th shot

Seconds per Shot =/= Shots per Second. For this approach to work, 1st shot would need to read 0.7 seconds:

0.7 - 1st shot
1.4 - 2nd shot
2.1 - 3rd shot
2.8 - 4th shot

Test your math in game; I'm confident you'll find that the shotgun fires 3 blasts every 2 seconds (not 4 blasts).

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2127	Posted - 2014.11.10 01:17:00 - [31] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: If 1000 damage can be dealt in under a second by an unmodified standard weapon, there is a problem. According to protofits, SG RoF is 85.71 ... I believe that translates to roughly 2 blasts every 3 seconds (rather than 2 blasts every 1 second). Is my math wrong? At 85.71 RPM, we get 4 shots within 3 seconds. This is 1920 damage in 3 seconds. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 225	Posted - 2014.11.10 01:19:00 - [32] - Quote This will need further testing and slow mo proof Regardless The disparity between target hp and target dps And shotgun HP and shotgun dps is still present The shotgun is an alpha weapon, the hmg is not Yet the hmg can kill a scout in a second too NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 225	Posted - 2014.11.10 01:21:00 - [33] - Quote You also have to land all shots, which is considerably harder after the first shot against any decent player Once you play in pc you will understand how easy it is to counter a shotgun with a heavy Personally I almost never get shot gunned Just. About situational awareNess NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3453	Posted - 2014.11.10 01:29:00 - [34] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: My suggestion: Fix heavy spam by increasing spread of hmg and overheat Shotgunners running kincats are already nerfed due to active team scans Increase shotgun range on breach to 15 m, add a slug effect and increase ammo capacity Besides, now shotguns have a cloak shooting delay To the person above me: Snipers deal 1000+ dmg in under a second Forge deals 1000+ dmg in under a second Rail turret deals 1000+ dmg in under a second The shotgun deals 450 dmg in a second. And all three of the above have either A low clip size A charge time Fatal Absolution Director
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2129	Posted - 2014.11.10 01:39:00 - [35] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: My suggestion: Fix heavy spam by increasing spread of hmg and overheat Shotgunners running kincats are already nerfed due to active team scans Increase shotgun range on breach to 15 m, add a slug effect and increase ammo capacity Besides, now shotguns have a cloak shooting delay To the person above me: Snipers deal 1000+ dmg in under a second Forge deals 1000+ dmg in under a second Rail turret deals 1000+ dmg in under a second The shotgun deals 450 dmg in a second. Name me one sniper able to deal 1000 DPS within a second. Forge guns are anti vehicle. Are you really going to compare a large rail turret to a standard weapon and not see an issue? And yes, the shotgun can deliver 1000 damage in a second. Its not hard to understand, unless your trying to obfusticate the issue. If you can fire faster than 60 RPM, which is one shot a second, then you are firing more than one shot in a second. There is no arguing over this. The math proves it, the gameplay proves it. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 112	Posted - 2014.11.10 02:04:00 - [36] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: And yes, the shotgun can deliver 1000 damage in a second. Its not hard to understand, unless your trying to obfusticate the issue. If you can fire faster than 60 RPM, which is one shot a second, then you are firing more than one shot in a second. There is no arguing over this. The math proves it, the gameplay proves it. I don't think anyone here is trying to obfuscate the issue. Let's approach this differently for the sake of clarity: At 85.71 RPM 0 sec - 1st blast 1.4 sec - 2nd blast ( = 2 / (85.71 / 60) 2.1 sec - 3rd blast ( = 3 / (85.71 / 60) 2.8 sec - 4th blast ( = 4 / (85.71 / 60) Applied If a given Sentinel requires 4 shotgun blasts to kill, the fastest a shotgunner can kill that Sentinel is 2.8 seconds.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 112	Posted - 2014.11.10 02:18:00 - [37] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: At 85.71 RPM 0 sec - 1st blast 1.4 sec - 2nd blast ( = 2 / (85.71 / 60) 2.1 sec - 3rd blast ( = 3 / (85.71 / 60) 2.8 sec - 4th blast ( = 4 / (85.71 / 60) Applied If a given Sentinel requires 4 shotgun blasts to kill, the fastest a shotgunner can kill that Sentinel is 2.8 seconds. Proposal A - 50 RPM 0 sec - 1st blast 2.4 sec - 2nd blast ( = 2 / (50 / 60) 3.6 sec - 3rd blast ( = 3 / (50 / 60) 4.8 sec - 4th blast ( = 4 / (50 / 60) Proposal A - Applied If a given Sentinel requires 4 shotgun blasts to kill, the fastest a shotgunner can kill that Sentinel is 4.8 seconds. Proposal B - 62.5 RPM 0 sec - 1st blast 1.9 sec - 2nd blast ( = 2 / (62.5 / 60) 2.9 sec - 3rd blast ( = 3 / (62.5 / 60) 3.8 sec - 4th blast ( = 4 / (62.5 / 60) Proposal B - Applied If a given Sentinel requires 4 shotgun blasts to kill, the fastest a shotgunner can kill that Sentinel is 3.8 seconds.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.11.10 02:18:00 - [38] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: And yes, the shotgun can deliver 1000 damage in a second. Its not hard to understand, unless your trying to obfusticate the issue. If you can fire faster than 60 RPM, which is one shot a second, then you are firing more than one shot in a second. There is no arguing over this. The math proves it, the gameplay proves it. I don't think anyone here is trying to obfuscate the issue. Let's approach this differently for the sake of clarity: At 85.71 RPM 0 sec - 1st blast 1.4 sec - 2nd blast ( = 2 / (85.71 / 60) 2.1 sec - 3rd blast ( = 3 / (85.71 / 60) 2.8 sec - 4th blast ( = 4 / (85.71 / 60) Applied If a given Sentinel requires 4 shotgun blasts to kill, the fastest a shotgunner can kill that Sentinel is 2.8 seconds. Interesting observation: By my math, four shotgun blasts are required to kill a max-HP AM Sentinel, whether the Shotgunner is wielding a STD, ADV or PRO shotgun. * Assumes max proficiency and 100% of pellets on target (i.e. distance 0-1 meters). Opposite from your math 60 second per minute 85.71 shot per minute 60/85.71=0.7 seconds per shot 0=1st shot 0.7=2nd shot 1.4=3rd shot 2.1=4th shot
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.11.10 02:23:00 - [39] - Quote In other words, 85.71 shots per 60 seconds means: 0.7 seconds / shot Or 1.43 shots / second Shots are binary, they either do or don't, fractional shots don't happen. So 2 shot in 1 second, 3 shots in 2 seconds, 5 shots in 3 seconds.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 112	Posted - 2014.11.10 02:24:00 - [40] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: And yes, the shotgun can deliver 1000 damage in a second. Its not hard to understand, unless your trying to obfusticate the issue. If you can fire faster than 60 RPM, which is one shot a second, then you are firing more than one shot in a second. There is no arguing over this. The math proves it, the gameplay proves it. I don't think anyone here is trying to obfuscate the issue. Let's approach this differently for the sake of clarity: At 85.71 RPM 0 sec - 1st blast 1.4 sec - 2nd blast ( = 2 / (85.71 / 60) 2.1 sec - 3rd blast ( = 3 / (85.71 / 60) 2.8 sec - 4th blast ( = 4 / (85.71 / 60) Applied If a given Sentinel requires 4 shotgun blasts to kill, the fastest a shotgunner can kill that Sentinel is 2.8 seconds. Interesting observation: By my math, four shotgun blasts are required to kill a max-HP AM Sentinel, whether the Shotgunner is wielding a STD, ADV or PRO shotgun. * Assumes max proficiency and 100% of pellets on target (i.e. distance 0-1 meters). Opposite from your math 60 second per minute 85.71 shot per minute 60/85.71=0.7 seconds per shot 0=1st shot 0.7=2nd shot 1.4=3rd shot 2.1=4th shot Seconds per Shot =/= Shots per Second. For this approach to work, 1st shot would need to read 0.7 seconds: 0.7 - 1st shot 1.4 - 2nd shot 2.1 - 3rd shot 2.8 - 4th shot Test your math in game; I'm confident you'll find that the shotgun fires 3 blasts every 2 seconds (not 4 blasts).

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2129	Posted - 2014.11.10 02:32:00 - [41] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: And yes, the shotgun can deliver 1000 damage in a second. Its not hard to understand, unless your trying to obfusticate the issue. If you can fire faster than 60 RPM, which is one shot a second, then you are firing more than one shot in a second. There is no arguing over this. The math proves it, the gameplay proves it. I don't think anyone here is trying to obfuscate the issue. Let's approach this differently for the sake of clarity: At 85.71 RPM 0 sec - 1st blast 1.4 sec - 2nd blast ( = 2 / (85.71 / 60) 2.1 sec - 3rd blast ( = 3 / (85.71 / 60) 2.8 sec - 4th blast ( = 4 / (85.71 / 60) Applied If a given Sentinel requires 4 shotgun blasts to kill, the fastest a shotgunner can kill that Sentinel is 2.8 seconds. Interesting observation: By my math, four shotgun blasts are required to kill a max-HP AM Sentinel, whether the Shotgunner is wielding a STD, ADV or PRO shotgun. * Assumes max proficiency and 100% of pellets on target (i.e. distance 0-1 meters). Opposite from your math 60 second per minute 85.71 shot per minute 60/85.71=0.7 seconds per shot 0=1st shot 0.7=2nd shot 1.4=3rd shot 2.1=4th shot Seconds per Shot =/= Shots per Second. For this approach to work, 1st shot would need to read 0.7 seconds: 0.7 - 1st shot 1.4 - 2nd shot 2.1 - 3rd shot 2.8 - 4th shot Test your math in game; I'm confident you'll find that the shotgun fires 3 blasts every 2 seconds (not 4 blasts). False. Your first shot is always instant. The exception are rail weapons that require a charge up time. Therefore 1st shot: 0.0 seconds (instant) - 480 damage 2nd shot: 0.7 seconds (0.7 refire rate) - 960 damage (here we are at almost 1000 damage within a second) 3rd shot: 1.4 seconds - 1440 damage (enough to kill all but the Amarr Sentinel brick tanked. 4th shot: 2.1 seconds - 1920 damage, our Amarr sentinel is dead. If shotguns had a 0.7 second charge, your math would be correct. your skipping the initial shot. However, according you your math, you have proved you can indeed get 960 damage within a second. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.11.10 02:59:00 - [42] - Quote You're telling me that you stand still for 0.7 seconds before you pull the trigger? Time starts at the first shot fired. If I'm running around a corner and see you, I fire. Then, 0.7 seconds later I fire again. Second (2nd) shot happens less than 1 second of time after the first. I just sent 2 shots within the first 1 second of time of engagement.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.11.10 03:11:00 - [43] - Quote The confusion seems to be shots / sec vs sec/shot. At 85.71 RPM, that is 85.71 rounds /60 seconds, yielding 1.43 shots in 1 second. Since you can't have a partial shot, 1.0001 shots = 2 shots for that period of time. Continuing on will show 2.8 shots in 2 seconds which equals 3 full shots. 4.2 shots in 3 =5, etc At 60 seconds / 85.71 rounds you will yield 0.7 seconds / round. Time starts when you see the enemy and fire. Again, 2nd shot at 0.7s, 3rd at 1.4s, 4th at 2.1s, etc
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 116	Posted - 2014.11.10 03:30:00 - [44] - Quote Fortunately, we don't have to grab a stopwatch and test in game; protofits is kind enough to calculate DPS for us. At max proficiency, the Creodron Shotgun's DPS of 867.39. 12 pellets at 50.6 dmg per pellet = 607.2 per blast. If the shotgun's RoF permitted it to fire 4 times in 2 seconds, its DPS would be closer to 1,214.4 (rather than the given 867.39). TL;DR: The shotgun fires roughly 3x every 2 seconds. Not 4x. Edit: If you guys really think I'm trying to pull your leg, I would encourage you to turn on Dust, equip a shotgun and measure how many seconds lapse between blast #1 and blast #4.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:06:00 - [45] - Quote Are you seriously trying to negate the first shot as counting towards the total? Protofits.com is taking the 1.4*DMG to get DPS. Anyways, those that know will start the time at the first shot. Then, 3 later will be 2 seconds later. 1+3=4. Your welcome.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2130	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:29:00 - [46] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Fortunately, we don't have to grab a stopwatch and test in game; protofits is kind enough to calculate DPS for us. At max proficiency, the Creodron Shotgun's DPS of 867.39. 12 pellets at 50.6 dmg per pellet = 607.2 per blast. If the shotgun's RoF permitted it to fire 4 times in ~2 seconds, its DPS would be closer to 1,214.4 (rather than the given 867.39). TL;DR: The shotgun fires roughly 3x every 2 seconds. Not 4x. If you guys still think I'm trying to pull your leg, I would encourage you to equip a shotgun and measure how many seconds lapse between blast #1 and blast #4. You'll find that you hit the 2 second mark right around the same time that you fire your 3rd shot (not the 4th). Your talking damage over time. Were talking g damage in a set time period. You can get two shots off within a second: one shot at the start of the second, and another 0.7 seconds later. Its not hard to understand. The timer starts as the first shot goes off. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:33:00 - [47] - Quote Back to the topic, why not halve the damage and double the range? With half the damage and effective range out to, say, 30 meters, optimal range should be about 10 meters I think. Effective range is 30% DMG, optimal I think is 70%, could be wrong on that stat. So at point blank with no bonuses/mods, 240 DMG. Headshot multiplier applies, so I think 360 DMG to the head. Able to do up to 252 DMG per headshot, or 168 DMG body up to 10 meters out. Does this sound like a compromise between assault / Commando and scout? Anyone who knows the stats for sure is welcome to correct the numbers
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7127	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:41:00 - [48] - Quote Remember, however, that there were little to no changes to the Shotgun since it's inception. Other than a change to higher shield damage on it's proficiency skill in 1.8 and 10% lower weapon damage to all light weapons (the same build that came out with the Cloaking device) the Shotgun never really changed. The Scout, however, did. Long-Term Roadmap Question -EVERYTHING-
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2812	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:53:00 - [49] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: 0.4 shots rounds down not up. You don't get 2 shots a second You are misunderstanding. If the ROF is 60 rounds a minute, then that's 60 shots / 60 seconds for 1 round a second. 85.71 means you can get rounds off faster than once a second. Therefore, 2 rounds can be shot within a second. If you want, time it. Start the stopwatch once the first shotgun round goes off, and stop it once the second shot goes off. It will be less than a second. Anything higher than 60 RPM shoots more than one round a second. 2 rounds in a second at some time. However, for all intents and purposes, it isn't 2 rounds per second. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:10:00 - [50] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: 0.4 shots rounds down not up. You don't get 2 shots a second You are misunderstanding. If the ROF is 60 rounds a minute, then that's 60 shots / 60 seconds for 1 round a second. 85.71 means you can get rounds off faster than once a second. Therefore, 2 rounds can be shot within a second. If you want, time it. Start the stopwatch once the first shotgun round goes off, and stop it once the second shot goes off. It will be less than a second. Anything higher than 60 RPM shoots more than one round a second. 2 rounds in a second at some time. However, for all intents and purposes, it isn't 2 rounds per second. That's true, but you DO get 2 shots in the first second, and you do get 2 shots in any given 1 second frame of time. That is the critical point with this particular weapon.

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2133	Posted - 2014.11.10 06:48:00 - [51] - Quote In addition, all damage numbers assume a standard weapon. 1000 damage in a second is really high. This is why shotgun scout are called OP. The one disadvantage of the shotgun, crippling range, is negated by cloaks and scout speed. We need to reduce its DPs, while buffing its range, to make it useful on a wider range of suit types. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2133	Posted - 2014.11.10 07:18:00 - [52] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: 0.4 shots rounds down not up. You don't get 2 shots a second You are misunderstanding. If the ROF is 60 rounds a minute, then that's 60 shots / 60 seconds for 1 round a second. 85.71 means you can get rounds off faster than once a second. Therefore, 2 rounds can be shot within a second. If you want, time it. Start the stopwatch once the first shotgun round goes off, and stop it once the second shot goes off. It will be less than a second. Anything higher than 60 RPM shoots more than one round a second. 2 rounds in a second at some time. However, for all intents and purposes, it isn't 2 rounds per second. False. For the purpose of seeing how many shots you can deal in a second, it is 2 rounds in a second. For calculating the potential damage dealt in a second, it is two rounds in a second. I could go on. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 116	Posted - 2014.11.10 12:32:00 - [53] - Quote @ Alena If Shotgun fired 2 rounds per second, its RoF would be would be 120 RPM (not 85). Can it get off 2 shots within a one second interval? Yes. But that absolutely doesn't mean it can get off 4 shots within 2 seconds. @ Aeon Shotgun Proficiency was changed from + RoF to + Shield Efficacy.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4481	Posted - 2014.11.10 14:53:00 - [54] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: @ Alena If the Shotgun fired 2 rounds per second, its RoF would be would be 120 RPM (not 85). While it can get off 2 blasts within a one second interval, it most certainly cannot get off 4 blasts within 2 a second interval. Here's why ... Each blast is followed by a lengthy recovery period. A two blast sequence includes only one recovery period. A three blast sequence includes two, and a four blast sequence includes three. Your argument applies only when describing a 2HK (blast+recovery+blast) scenario, but we must account for the increase in number of recovery periods when estimated TTK for 3HK+ engagements (i.e. Sentinels). @ Aeon Shotgun Proficiency was changed from + RoF to + Shield Efficacy. OMG. This circular math discussion is driving me crazy. I barely care about this change and I just can't take it. It just shouldn't be that hard to understand: No, you do NOT get 2 shots EVERY second. That would, in fact, equate to 120 RPM, not 85. -however- You DO get 2 shots in THE FIRST second. 0 sec: 1 shot 0.7 sec: 2 shots -- one second has elapsed -- 1.4 sec: 3 shots -- two seconds have elapsed -- 2.1 sec: 4 shots 2.8 sec: 5 shots -- 3 seconds have elapsed -- 3.6 sec: 6 shots -- 4 seconds have elapsed -- As you can see, you get 2 shots in one second, but don't get 4 shots in 2 seconds. If you go out further to the entire minute, you drop a few more of those second shots per second (which is a confusing phrase, isn't it?) and lose... wait for it... 120-85 = 35 shots, or a little more than one every other second, as you can see in the timeline above. walks away grumbling (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 117	Posted - 2014.11.10 15:52:00 - [55] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: This makes the DPS calculation of 900 a little high but not totally inaccurate in terms of the "real world" application of the weapons damage. I realized that this will add to your grumbling, but ... We can't make reasonable claims about "real world" damage application if we've assumed unreasonable "real world" parameters. In practice, targets do not remain stationary and centered at 0m when being shotgunned.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:15:00 - [56] - Quote Lol, this is quite fun(ny), but I think at the bottom of all of this we can agree that the shotgun has a VERY high alpha damage with VERY short range, making it a very niche and essentially one class weapon. Again I'll reiterate my thought of halving the damage and doubling the range. I think this is a fair starting point to submit to Rattati and Crew. Any takers?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 118	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:32:00 - [57] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Lol, this is quite fun(ny), but I think at the bottom of all of this we can agree that the shotgun has a VERY high alpha damage with VERY short range, making it a very niche and essentially one class weapon. Again I'll reiterate my thought of halving the damage and doubling the range. I think this is a fair starting point to submit to Rattati and Crew. Any takers? This idea is quite bad, and I'll attempt to explain why. At 0 meters, no pellets will miss your target and 8 blasts would be needed to kill an armor-based sentinel. This will take somewhere between 5 and 6 seconds, assuming you've perfect aim, timing and the sentinel does not move. At 5 meters -- well within your new optimal range -- a percentage of pellets will miss your target. At 10 meters -- the outer limit of your new optimal range -- the majority of your pellets will miss your target. Even if he's standing still. Even if you have perfect aim.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4485	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:50:00 - [58] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: This makes the DPS calculation of 900 a little high but not totally inaccurate in terms of the "real world" application of the weapons damage. I realize that this may add to your grumbling, but ... We can't make a reasonable claim about "real world" DPS while assuming parameters which seldom exist in the "real world". In practice, targets do not remain stationary and centered at 0m when being shotgunned. It did. Thing is, you can't count on all the bullets hitting from any weapon, yet we use total DPS calculations all the time. Why? Because with the of exception things like sniper rifles, PLC's, MD's, etc, that are essentially all-or-nothing, it's impossible to account for missed shots and therefore not helpful as a parameter. You have to exclude it on the simple principle that it is both essentially unmeasureable and that it will even out in the majority of scenarios. You are absolutely correct in that this is the inherent flaw in using "paper" DPS calculations but there is no practical alternative. You have to base your "experiment" on the numbers you have available and see how the results pan out. In this case, again, I really don't have much of an opinion on it other than lolmath debates drive me insane, But, if you did want to make it a viable choice for non-scouts in the manner proposed in the OP, the logical thing to do would be to also decrease the pellet spread to account for the longer range and make sure the reticule was a more accurate representation of it. IMO a slightly longer range would be an effective way to do it, but that's about all I got on this topic. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:52:00 - [59] - Quote Fair enough, I've never been in PC, and only sometimes in FW, so I don't see many ak.0 suits running around. However, Scouts are supposed to utilize the EWAR bonuses to be selective in targets, right? Tanked Assaults should still be taken out with 3-4 shots, and the small increase in range should allow Assaults to also use it as a viable CQC weapon. Most of my time is in pubs, so I'm just throwing out ideas trying to find a balance.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2139	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:25:00 - [60] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: @ Alena If the Shotgun fired 2 rounds per second, its RoF would be would be 120 RPM (not 85). While it can get off 2 blasts within a one second interval, it most certainly cannot get off 4 blasts within 2 a second interval. Here's why ... Each blast is followed by a lengthy recovery period. A two blast sequence includes only one recovery period. A three blast sequence includes two, and a four blast sequence includes three. Your argument applies only when describing a 2HK (blast+recovery+blast) scenario, but we must account for the increase in number of recovery periods when estimated TTK for 3HK+ engagements (i.e. Sentinels). @ Aeon Shotgun Proficiency was changed from + RoF to + Shield Efficacy. I know, I agree with you. But my point is, that you can get two blast off within a second. No, you cannot always get two blasts off in EVERY second, but some seconds will have two blasts, because you are able to fire 85 rounds in 60 seconds, which necessitates that some of those seconds have two rounds fired within them. More importantly, it's the fact that you are guaranteed to get two blasts off within the FIRST second, which is what I've been talking about. The alpha damage is incredibly high (working as intended) but the fact that you can then refire inside of a second (because you can get a shot off every 0.7 seconds) is the issue. I want the shotgun to have its high alpha, so I would lower DPS by ROF. I would also increase range, making it useful on my Galmanndo as much as your scout. ON THIS POINT, yes at 20m some pellets will miss. But 7-8 pellets hitting for full damage causes more damage than 12 pellets hitting for reduced damage. If increases your damage projection, even if a few pellets miss. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.



Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page