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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
2329
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Posted - 2014.11.05 23:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:
ok i'll show you... this is ds3 360 transition__0__transition180
KBM Immediate360 Immediate180 no acceleration between the two. Instant left and right theoritically
What on earth are you talking about? Are you talking about turning speed / sensitivity now?
If that is the case you DS3 users should be asking CCP to give you an increased sensitivity setting or something. This is not my issue and it is NOT I repeat NOT a limitation of your control mechanism, instead this is an artificial limit placed by the game. Just as how KB/M has many artificial limits and gimps.
You see..... you dont like it when stuff is messed up either, do you? Now maybe we can all push for everyone's preferred controls to be up to par?
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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Nevyn Tazinas
Company of Marcher Lords
Amarr Empire
43
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Posted - 2014.11.05 23:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
Songs of Seraphim wrote:My name is Songs of Seraphim, and I'm an alcoholic.
OP, where did they touch you?
Probably with the AA on the bolt pistol which seems to be auto head shot seeking at any range. I don't believe there are that many people who can aim at a head that accurately without AA making the shot for them. |
Finn Colman
Immortal Guides
53
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Posted - 2014.11.05 23:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
Personally I was curious what would happen if I turned AA off. (I'm a DS3 user btw) I found that I actually hit much more and won many more fights without it. My most common KD went from 0.3 to 3.0, however I did also change my play-style to be much more fast-paced using hybrid shield/speed tanking so this might be the actual cause for my increased performance.
Main weapons: CR, RR, LR, MD, PLC, Flaylock, MagSec.
The little Min with the little voice.
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
95
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Posted - 2014.11.06 00:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:I'll never forget a time I had to fight Regnyum on manas peak. It was like fighting a tornado of bullets. It wasn't because of a suit difference or a weapon difference. I was ds3 and he was KBM. I felt like a idiot child completely incapable of fighting back. I don't care what anyone says about KBM or AA. I just wish it were one or the other.
Citation please.
Because, you know, it is actually a well known fact that every single top-tier player in Chrome was actually a DS3 user. Also, as far as I know, Regnyum actually did a video tutorial on strafing, and it appeared he was using a DS3.
Mostly because it's hard as hell to try and circle-strafe/figure-8 strafe using a keyboard.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
707
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Posted - 2014.11.06 01:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:
ok i'll show you... this is ds3 360 transition__0__transition180
KBM Immediate360 Immediate180 no acceleration between the two. Instant left and right theoritically
What on earth are you talking about? Are you talking about turning speed / sensitivity now? If that is the case you DS3 users should be asking CCP to give you an increased sensitivity setting or something. This is not my issue and it is NOT I repeat NOT a limitation of your control mechanism, instead this is an artificial limit placed by the game. Just as how KB/M has many artificial limits and gimps. You see..... you dont like it when stuff is messed up either, do you? Now maybe we can all push for everyone's preferred controls to be up to par?
Nah.
Most DS3 users and AA addicts are too fixated on the proto-stomping super-strafing boogey men to actually think about what's affecting THEIR OWN performance.
I actually started a thread to buff DS3 turn speed, and it went absolutely nowhere.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2390912#post2390912 |
KA24DERT
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
707
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 02:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:Pretty sure the point of AA is to make people feel better about themselves. Actually it's use covers a variety of reasons. The most important of which is balancing for player skill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w Balancing for player skill? Gotcha, AA is the Blue Turtle Shell of shooters.
It's a tool for the unmotivated and unskilled to feel good about themselves, while eliminating the advantage that a skilled player has spent hundreds of hours developing.It has nothing to do with KBM vs DS3. And the solution for that effort/skill gap is via matchmaking, IF any solution is necessary. If everyone has the same AA in a console shooter (dust doesn't) then how is the guy who's skilled not going to kill those less skilled? In Destiny for example I have like a 2nd percentile KDR. Everyone enjoys aim assist, so...my 25 year old reflexes are better than the 16 year old's i'm mostly playing? I highly doubt it. The AA mechanics and the shooting mechanics overall are simply much more fine tuned and fluid. The top KDR in Destiny? like about 200 people have above a 3.0. In dust meanwhile where there is much less balancing for player skill? Reg in chrome held a 22.7 KDR it his peak and it was not uncommon for the very best infantry players like almighty and others to maintain above an 8 kdr. There's a ******* reason competitive games have noob tubes, and there's sound logic behind balancing for player skill. Oversimplifying things into saying that all AA = an iwinbutton is so lol it's pathetic.
What's the sound logic for balancing for player skill, I gave you two real world examples of other games where such balancing doesn't exist and players of all skill levels co-exist. And what's the rationale behind using aim assist to "balance" that skill instead of matchmaking?
Also, I'm not over simplifying the effect AA has on engagements.
I have held impromptu blue on blue fights during no-show PCs and people who would otherwise STOMP me in pubs I ended up holding my own against, or even beating.
I think that's pretty close to an "I Win" button.
But you don't have to hold a test to see it's effects. Go play a match and try to strafe against a competent rail rifle user at a distance. Every Bullet Hits.
Oh, did you duck behind cover and still get shot somehow? Every Bullet Hits.
An algorithm should never exert that much influence on the outcome of an engagement, and it's turned a game that used to have drawn out gun battles into an absolute BLAP-fest, and the loud and un-skilled celebrated the death of "bunny hoppers" and "dancing strafers", AKA key components of FPS games. |
Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4362
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Posted - 2014.11.06 08:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:Pretty sure the point of AA is to make people feel better about themselves. Actually it's use covers a variety of reasons. The most important of which is balancing for player skill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w Balancing for player skill? Gotcha, AA is the Blue Turtle Shell of shooters.
It's a tool for the unmotivated and unskilled to feel good about themselves, while eliminating the advantage that a skilled player has spent hundreds of hours developing.It has nothing to do with KBM vs DS3. And the solution for that effort/skill gap is via matchmaking, IF any solution is necessary. If everyone has the same AA in a console shooter (dust doesn't) then how is the guy who's skilled not going to kill those less skilled? In Destiny for example I have like a 2nd percentile KDR. Everyone enjoys aim assist, so...my 25 year old reflexes are better than the 16 year old's i'm mostly playing? I highly doubt it. The AA mechanics and the shooting mechanics overall are simply much more fine tuned and fluid. The top KDR in Destiny? like about 200 people have above a 3.0. In dust meanwhile where there is much less balancing for player skill? Reg in chrome held a 22.7 KDR it his peak and it was not uncommon for the very best infantry players like almighty and others to maintain above an 8 kdr. There's a ******* reason competitive games have noob tubes, and there's sound logic behind balancing for player skill. Oversimplifying things into saying that all AA = an iwinbutton is so lol it's pathetic.
What's the sound logic for balancing for player skill, I gave you two real world examples of other games where such balancing doesn't exist and players of all skill levels co-exist. And what's the rationale behind using aim assist to "balance" that skill instead of matchmaking?Also, I'm not over simplifying the effect AA has on engagements.
I have held impromptu blue on blue fights during no-show PCs and people who would otherwise STOMP me in pubs I ended up holding my own against, or even beating.
I think that's pretty close to an "I Win" button.
1.) Can you prove there is no aim assist on those games at all.
Do you see the conundrum of talking about games that are only KBM or only competitive using KBM?
KBM's (unfugged) do not :need: aim assist, although you need to know when we talk about aim assit we aren't mentioning 'bullet magnetism' or w/e you're describing with the RR.
I get killed around corners in FPS all the time..it's called lag.
When I think about aim assist some things to think about are:
View acceleration
View friction
View adhesion
Aim attraction
2.) Anecdotal
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
527
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Posted - 2014.11.06 13:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
Victor Moody Stahl wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:I'll never forget a time I had to fight Regnyum on manas peak. It was like fighting a tornado of bullets. It wasn't because of a suit difference or a weapon difference. I was ds3 and he was KBM. I felt like a idiot child completely incapable of fighting back. I don't care what anyone says about KBM or AA. I just wish it were one or the other. Citation please. Because, you know, it is actually a well known fact that every single top-tier player in Chrome was actually a DS3 user. Also, as far as I know, Regnyum actually did a video tutorial on strafing, and it appeared he was using a DS3. Mostly because it's hard as hell to try and circle-strafe/figure-8 strafe using a keyboard.
Can't cite it. I don't have anything to record with. I just remember it.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
527
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 13:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:
ok i'll show you... this is ds3 360 transition__0__transition180
KBM Immediate360 Immediate180 no acceleration between the two. Instant left and right theoritically
What on earth are you talking about? Are you talking about turning speed / sensitivity now? If that is the case you DS3 users should be asking CCP to give you an increased sensitivity setting or something. This is not my issue and it is NOT I repeat NOT a limitation of your control mechanism, instead this is an artificial limit placed by the game. Just as how KB/M has many artificial limits and gimps. You see..... you dont like it when stuff is messed up either, do you? Now maybe we can all push for everyone's preferred controls to be up to par?
If you go back and read I made it clear I don't care about AA. The issue is if people want a KBM they should have that option and that option only in game. Same with Ds3 having both makes a lot of people rage for no reason from what I see. I don't care - 3rd time said in this thread- Just make it one or the other not both then AA can be turned off.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
713
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 23:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:
1.) Can you prove there is no aim assist on those games at all.
Do you see the conundrum of talking about games that are only KBM or only competitive using KBM?
KBM's (unfugged) do not :need: aim assist, although you need to know when we talk about aim assit we aren't mentioning 'bullet magnetism' or w/e you're describing with the RR.
I get killed around corners in FPS all the time..it's called lag.
When I think about aim assist some things to think about are:
View acceleration
View friction
View adhesion
Aim attraction
2.) Anecdotal
I'm pretty confident that any "aim assist" those games have is buried deep in the network prediction code and doesn't directly interfere with input, and certainly isn't nearly as strong as the AA in Dust. Most of those games are closed source, so experience, observation, and running a few Quake/HL servers will have to suffice. I do recall that aim assist was available in Quake, but it was enforced on the server side and defaulted to OFF.
I don't see the conundrum of talking about aim assist in KBM focused games at all. There are people who are terrible even with a mouse, and they still log on to play those games on servers littered with highly skilled players. That describes the situation before aim assist in Dust. You had a few crazy sharp shooters running around with excellent gun game, and then you had a gaggle of blueberries who were very much enjoying not getting BLAPPED by random raspberries in under a second. And that's how the formula works on PC games: Everyone gets to swim around with other fishes and enjoy getting bites out of each other, even when there's sharks in the water. In Dust with aim assist, any competent player a Shark, just slightly bigger or smaller, and that leads for frustrating gameplay for everyone, not just KBM users.
Also, bullet magnetism is the CORE issue I and others have with the overall aim assist package in Dust. Some may take issue other portions of the package focused around aim manipulation, but bullets that magically bend is the main reason behind the low TTK in this game, and the main culprit behind the unnecessary closure of the skill gap. |
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