DUST Search - The point of AA

Zatara Rought wrote:

KA24DERT wrote:

Zatara Rought wrote:

Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:

Pretty sure the point of AA is to make people feel better about themselves.

Actually it's use covers a variety of reasons.

The most important of which is balancing for player skill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

Balancing for player skill?

Gotcha, AA is the Blue Turtle Shell of shooters.

It's a tool for the unmotivated and unskilled to feel good about themselves, while eliminating the advantage that a skilled player has spent hundreds of hours developing.

It has nothing to do with KBM vs DS3.

And the solution for that effort/skill gap is via matchmaking, IF any solution is necessary.

If everyone has the same AA in a console shooter (dust doesn't) then how is the guy who's skilled not going to kill those less skilled?

In Destiny for example I have like a 2nd percentile KDR. Everyone enjoys aim assist, so...my 25 year old reflexes are better than the 16 year old's i'm mostly playing? I highly doubt it. The AA mechanics and the shooting mechanics overall are simply much more fine tuned and fluid. The top KDR in Destiny? like about 200 people have above a 3.0.

In dust meanwhile where there is much less balancing for player skill? Reg in chrome held a 22.7 KDR it his peak and it was not uncommon for the very best infantry players like almighty and others to maintain above an 8 kdr.

There's a ******* reason competitive games have noob tubes, and there's sound logic behind balancing for player skill.

Oversimplifying things into saying that all AA = an iwinbutton is so lol it's pathetic.


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KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 705	Posted - 2014.11.04 22:11:00 - [1] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: Pretty sure the point of AA is to make people feel better about themselves. Actually it's use covers a variety of reasons. The most important of which is balancing for player skill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w Balancing for player skill? Gotcha, AA is the Blue Turtle Shell of shooters. It's a tool for the unmotivated and unskilled to feel good about themselves, while eliminating the advantage that a skilled player has spent hundreds of hours developing. It has nothing to do with KBM vs DS3. And the solution for that effort/skill gap is via matchmaking, IF any solution is necessary. You can hop on almost any TF2/CS server and find the whole gamut of player skill, from 360 no-scopers to guys running into walls, and the populations of those games, ESPECIALLY for their age, is rather healthy. The idea that you need to balance for player skill, especially by unnaturally hampering one input while artificially enhancing another, is a fool's quest. But IF you must balance, it should be via matchmaking(while still occasionally throwing the lambs to slaughter and the wolves to pasture to avoid monotony of pace).
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 705	Posted - 2014.11.04 22:12:00 - [2] - Quote .
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 707	Posted - 2014.11.06 01:07:00 - [3] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Grease Spillett wrote: ok i'll show you... this is ds3 360 transition__0__transition180 KBM Immediate360 Immediate180 no acceleration between the two. Instant left and right theoritically What on earth are you talking about? Are you talking about turning speed / sensitivity now? If that is the case you DS3 users should be asking CCP to give you an increased sensitivity setting or something. This is not my issue and it is NOT I repeat NOT a limitation of your control mechanism, instead this is an artificial limit placed by the game. Just as how KB/M has many artificial limits and gimps. You see..... you dont like it when stuff is messed up either, do you? Now maybe we can all push for everyone's preferred controls to be up to par? Nah. Most DS3 users and AA addicts are too fixated on the proto-stomping super-strafing boogey men to actually think about what's affecting THEIR OWN performance. I actually started a thread to buff DS3 turn speed, and it went absolutely nowhere. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2390912#post2390912
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 707	Posted - 2014.11.06 02:40:00 - [4] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: Pretty sure the point of AA is to make people feel better about themselves. Actually it's use covers a variety of reasons. The most important of which is balancing for player skill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w Balancing for player skill? Gotcha, AA is the Blue Turtle Shell of shooters. It's a tool for the unmotivated and unskilled to feel good about themselves, while eliminating the advantage that a skilled player has spent hundreds of hours developing. It has nothing to do with KBM vs DS3. And the solution for that effort/skill gap is via matchmaking, IF any solution is necessary. If everyone has the same AA in a console shooter (dust doesn't) then how is the guy who's skilled not going to kill those less skilled? In Destiny for example I have like a 2nd percentile KDR. Everyone enjoys aim assist, so...my 25 year old reflexes are better than the 16 year old's i'm mostly playing? I highly doubt it. The AA mechanics and the shooting mechanics overall are simply much more fine tuned and fluid. The top KDR in Destiny? like about 200 people have above a 3.0. In dust meanwhile where there is much less balancing for player skill? Reg in chrome held a 22.7 KDR it his peak and it was not uncommon for the very best infantry players like almighty and others to maintain above an 8 kdr. There's a ******* reason competitive games have noob tubes, and there's sound logic behind balancing for player skill. Oversimplifying things into saying that all AA = an iwinbutton is so lol it's pathetic. What's the sound logic for balancing for player skill, I gave you two real world examples of other games where such balancing doesn't exist and players of all skill levels co-exist. And what's the rationale behind using aim assist to "balance" that skill instead of matchmaking? Also, I'm not over simplifying the effect AA has on engagements. I have held impromptu blue on blue fights during no-show PCs and people who would otherwise STOMP me in pubs I ended up holding my own against, or even beating. I think that's pretty close to an "I Win" button. But you don't have to hold a test to see it's effects. Go play a match and try to strafe against a competent rail rifle user at a distance. Every Bullet Hits. Oh, did you duck behind cover and still get shot somehow? Every Bullet Hits. An algorithm should never exert that much influence on the outcome of an engagement, and it's turned a game that used to have drawn out gun battles into an absolute BLAP-fest, and the loud and un-skilled celebrated the death of "bunny hoppers" and "dancing strafers", AKA key components of FPS games.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 713	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:51:00 - [5] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: 1.) Can you prove there is no aim assist on those games at all. Do you see the conundrum of talking about games that are only KBM or only competitive using KBM? KBM's (unfugged) do not :need: aim assist, although you need to know when we talk about aim assit we aren't mentioning 'bullet magnetism' or w/e you're describing with the RR. I get killed around corners in FPS all the time..it's called lag. When I think about aim assist some things to think about are: View acceleration View friction View adhesion Aim attraction 2.) Anecdotal I'm pretty confident that any "aim assist" those games have is buried deep in the network prediction code and doesn't directly interfere with input, and certainly isn't nearly as strong as the AA in Dust. Most of those games are closed source, so experience, observation, and running a few Quake/HL servers will have to suffice. I do recall that aim assist was available in Quake, but it was enforced on the server side and defaulted to OFF. I don't see the conundrum of talking about aim assist in KBM focused games at all. There are people who are terrible even with a mouse, and they still log on to play those games on servers littered with highly skilled players. That describes the situation before aim assist in Dust. You had a few crazy sharp shooters running around with excellent gun game, and then you had a gaggle of blueberries who were very much enjoying not getting BLAPPED by random raspberries in under a second. And that's how the formula works on PC games: Everyone gets to swim around with other fishes and enjoy getting bites out of each other, even when there's sharks in the water. In Dust with aim assist, any competent player a Shark, just slightly bigger or smaller, and that leads for frustrating gameplay for everyone, not just KBM users. Also, bullet magnetism is the CORE issue I and others have with the overall aim assist package in Dust. Some may take issue other portions of the package focused around aim manipulation, but bullets that magically bend is the main reason behind the low TTK in this game, and the main culprit behind the unnecessary closure of the skill gap.